Famously non-ideological countries America, China, and Japan! OP is a retard.

>>525924974
Israel doesn't really belong in the first category. Otherwise - fair.

r u gay?

>>525924974
I dont care

Eww get that indian flag away from all those other ones.

>>525924974
decent bait, will get (You)'s

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>>525925057
>America not idelogical

>>525924974
India really can't help themselves. They always got to insert themselves.

>>525925074
how so, Chaim?

>>525924974
Brown

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>>525924974
you are a gay niggerfaggot

>>525924974
Could you please explain the core concept of great Indian pragmatism?

>>525925118
what's the "bait" supposed to do?

>>525925166
Israel is a pragmatic country. They do not possess a real ideology. Even zionism is pragmatic.

>>525925248
zionism is an ideology

>>525924974
OP is a jeet btw

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>>525924974
everything is ideology retard

the human brain can't even come close to processing every facet of reality

even if it could, human consciousness can only hold so many items at any given time, so you would never be able to experience the understanding of every facet of reality

>>525925226
trigger people that don't want to be considered the same a jeets

>>525924974
SAAR WE GREAT REGIME LIKE AMERICA

>>525925248

>>525925305

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>>525924974
>realism
kek

>>525925215
rape everything
anything else i might help you with ?

>>525925338
>everything is ideology retard
>the human brain can't even come close to processing every facet of reality
you're conflating ideology with science here
Marx made same mistake

>>525925345
>trigger
ok will wait to see anyone triggered, since a reply =/= triggered, otherwise yours is

>>525925305
In that case every country has some kind of ideology. Manifest destiny is an ideology as well. So are China's five principles.

>>525925453
ideology and philosophy aren't the same

>>525925450
ok

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>>525925511
>American liberalism doesn't put ideology above realism
anon...

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Ideology commonly answers the question: "how things should be"
Philosophy commonly tries to answer the question: "why things are the way they are right now"

The difference is that ideology leads to political idealism. And political idealism leads to extremism. As it endeavours to rewrite the world to fit a frame that suits its worldview, instead of finding common ground with the current reality. In 99.9% of cases, idealism leads to conflict with human nature, and ends in war and human suffering.

>>525924974
the realism of russia to fight for the heckin russian speakers in Donbas and because of le neonazi biolabs with russophobic viruses against the idealistic ruled ukraine (its idealism is it wants to exist as a sovereign nation)

>>525925882
>(its idealism is it wants to exist as a sovereign nation)
no, Ukraine's idealism is that it wants to become part of EU and NATO because it wants to get "westernised".
And if killing thousands of people to achieve this goal is required, then so be it.

>>525924974
This is complete nonsense. Politics creates new realities, "basing your politics on realism" is a string of words that means nothing.

Putting India in this list just tells me it was made by an Indian

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>>525925882
>(its idealism is it wants to exist as a sovereign nation) *minus the native ukranians, who care so much about it they have to be kidnapped into the war

>>525924974
The EU is weaponized nihilism to the point of it being effectively anti-idealism. Ukraine is a client state perversion of nationalism.

The others are right.

>>525925962
>"basing your politics on realism"
if you study politics in academia, you will know that literally all political theories are separated into "realism" and "idealism"
And "realist" branch has many famous contributors, including Hobbes and Machiavelli, but it takes root in Ancient Greece.
Idealist branch is fairly new and emerged around the age of enlightment.

>>525925960
It wants to go into NATO because it wants to exist as a sovereign nation, retard.

>>525926252
>*minus the native ukranians, who care so much about it they have to be kidnapped into the war

>>525925590
>American liberalism doesn't put ideology above realism
>anon...
Liberalism in its classical form isn't an ideology, it's simply a "faire et laissez faire" approach to life: "I don't bother you as long as you don't bother me"
This is of course different from neo-liberalism, which made a whole U-turn on that concept, and introduced authoritarianism, with a flavour of: "Unless you have a type of freedom that I aprove of, I will kill you"

But the founding fathers established USA based on "live and let live" principle, which is an antithesis to having an ideology.

>>525925745
This is completely wrong anon. Political pragmatism only makes sense within an existing political framework, the only question is how much pragmatism your "ideology" or system of government permits.
Whether you like it or not humans now have to govern their own affairs and "ideology" or defining how your system of government works and where it's legitimacy is derived from is a prerequisite.
>>525926159
"Realism" refers to geopolitics, not domestic politics anon and is not incompatible with ideology. For example Hitler's mentor on geopolitics was a man called Karl Haushofer who promoted a realist view of foreign politics

>>525926252
>It wants to go into NATO because it wants to exist as a sovereign nation, retard.
If it goes to NATO, then all of its military and dual-use infrastructure will become subject to USA's military access.
And that ^ is the opposite of "sovereignty"

When you are truly sovereign, you depend on yourself for energy, security, and foreign policy.
If you need to be part of an alliance, and reques Article 5 for protection - then you are opposite of sovereign. You are a voluntary colony

>>525924974
>America
>based on realism
LMFAO.

>>525926159
Again, nonsense. There is no "realist" branch of politics. For example, Machiavellianism (the idea that there should be one ruler who ruthlessly power accumulates and defends his power) is a form of authoritarian ideology.

>>525924974
@grok can you change the flags to glistening BBCs

>>525926497
>pragmatism
I am talking about realism, not about pragmatism. These are 2 different terms if you take into consideration political science.
>"Realism" refers to geopolitics
No it doesn't. Realism refers to how human nature functions. It can also be applied to states, which is where it become part of geopolitics or international relations. But Realism is not limited to states or countries. It can be applied to individual human beings, even inside a family setting.

>>525924974
>Eurasianism isn't an ideology bro

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>>525924974
Why would you be mad? The guy who made that is a retard.

>>525926543
> When you are truly sovereign, you depend on yourself for energy, security, and foreign policy.
and they know that is not in the cards for them, geopolitically, hence they its realism no idealism.

>>525926684
No anon political realism literally refers specifically to geopolitics going back to Machiavelli like you said. As I said Hitler was a realist and also an ideologue.
>>525926422
>Liberalism in its classical form isn't an ideology, it's simply a "faire et laissez faire" approach to life: "I don't bother you as long as you don't bother me"
This is a classic misunderstanding. The phrase “I don’t bother you as long as you don’t bother me” already presupposes a specific conception the individual, human nature, property, harm and so on. None of these are universal or self-evident. Liberalism just universalizes one value system and pretends it is the absence of values.

>>525924974
USA is israel's puppet state. Russia is a joke.

>>525926876
>and they know that is not in the cards for them, geopolitically, hence they its realism no idealism.
when you follow realism, you don't lose 20% of your territory, I'm sorry

Again, the fundamental difference between Realism and Idealism is this:

Realism: how things are
Idealism: how things should be, despite of how they are

The main pitfall of Idealism, is that it ALWAYS has to reject human nature in its pursuits of ideals. While Realism grounds everything down to human nature.

>>525926942
>No anon political realism literally refers specifically to geopolitics going back to Machiavelli like you said
If you would stop LARP'ing as a political expert who educated himself with the help of Wikipedia, you'd know that majority of Machiavelli's work was based on domestic politics, and on describinig human individuals and their behaviour patterns within a society or within a state.
He applied those descriptions to international relations, by comparing an individual or a group to a political organisation.

Similarly to Hobbes - he majority of Hobbsian work was to explain why states have authority over its citizens. Hobbes is part of Realist school.

>>525926992
>the parasites who only exist because of us are the puppet masters
Brown cope is funny

>>525927233
Your understanding of politics is childish. Don't you realize that even the concept of a state is a form of political ideology? Throughout most of humanity's existence, people didn't live like this.

>>525927233
And they are used today almost purely in the context of international relations. Political realism is most closely associated with fascism, you do know that anon? Political realism is almost the opposite of liberalism which is idealistic
And you completely skipped over the part where I showed that Classical Liberalism is not an absence of ideology

>>525927475
>Don't you realize that even the concept of a state is a form of political ideology?
statehood is not ideological, it's merely semantic.
Would you consider ancient Athens to be a state? Because it was a city.
A city is a community.
A community.
A human is a social animal, therefore it has to build communities.
Is this ideology? No, it's biology and philosophy.

>>525927645
Would you consider a wandering hunter-gatherer tribe a form of statehood? Is any community a state?

>>525927565
>And they are used today almost purely in the context of international relations.
Many people today believe there's more than 2 genders. It's called overtone window.
But I'm not talking about windows or about mental illnesses. I'm talking about objective reality and nature.
>Political realism is most closely associated with fascism, you do know that anon?
It isn't. Realism is associated with human nature. Here's an example:

Marxists: the reason crime exists is because humans are not educated to be good. If we educate everyone to be good, crime will no longer exist.
Realists: crime will always exist, because it's part of human nature to violate boundaries.

Communism: if we eliminate money, and remove greedy people, everyone will share and live in paradise.
Realism: human nature seeks to own and acquire, as well as conquer. You cannot create a society without transaction or ownership.

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>messianic mutts
>"realism"

>>525927905
>Would you consider a wandering hunter-gatherer tribe a form of statehood? Is any community a state?
you can call it a wandering state.
The fundamentals of a "state" is to have a set of rules, a hierarchy, a sovereign, and an enforcement of rules. Whether it has territory or not is an environmental and not a structural question

>>525928051
So even frat house or a family is a state? Do you realize how meaningless the word becomes?

>>525927922
>it's not a ideology
>describes realism like an ideology
Just because it aligns more with what you think reality is, it doesn't stop being a system of beliefs and ideas. Maybe you just don't like the traditional dictionary definition of ideology? We can just call "Realism" an "idea" if you like, but it won't stop everyone else from calling it an ideology.

>>525928313
>So even frat house or a family is a state? Do you realize how meaningless the word becomes?
yes, because the word "state" indeed is meaningless, once you actually open history books and discover that there is such as term as "city-state" - where every city (during medieval ages) was literally a state of its own. And if you compare populations of those cities, to populations in the 21st century, then you'd discover that "states" were literally fucking villages back then.

>>525927922
Well again you completely ignored me disproving you on Classical liberalism. And again you are still missing the point. Political realism is an assertion about what politics is, not what to do about it. Is/Ought. That is where ideology necessarily comes in.

>>525928396
>Just because it aligns more with what you think reality is
no, again, I will repeat for the especially gifted like yourself:

Realism has one fundamental core to all of its school of thought: that everything in life is grounded IN HUMAN NATURE.
And human nature is not very difficult to figure out, once you start making simple empirical observations and notes about it. Machiavelli wrote extensively about it in The Prince.

Similarly, the Art of War by Sun Tzu can also be applied to personal relationships, or to corporate life, not just to inter-state war. And the Art of War can be classified as a Realist view on conflict

>>525928533
no, and again no, Political Realism is based on human nature.
And you cannot have 2 theories of what a human is. You can only have a right explanation of what human nature is, and a wrong explanation of what human nature is.
How you reach the right explanation? By observing humans. And many philosphers did this for thousands of years.

>>525928475
>yes, because the word "state" indeed is meaningless
Why do you use the word, then? Lol, you really sucks at this whole philosophy thing

>>525928790
>Why do you use the word, then?
to speak your langauge to you

>>525925166
Jews are liberal outside because it benefits them and conservative in Israel because it benefits them. Zionist only arguably ideological element is fixation on the particular geography(they could've ran a slave empire in Madagascar, unbothered by the world but because of muh ancient history they ended up in a dustbowl pitched against sandniggers).

>>525924974
USA is peak liberal idealism. They are controlled with freedumbs propaganda.

>>525928666
>Realism has one fundamental core to all of its school of thought: that everything in life is grounded IN HUMAN NATURE.
Again, you just put forth an idea and a system of beliefs that would be classed as part of ideology. Human Nature is a spook.

>>525925305
it's literally Jewish nationalism.

>>525928769
None of what you said contradicted my point. You are still not getting this: political realism describes the fundamental nature of politics. It does not tell you how to govern a society. That is what ideology is and you cannot have an ordered society without one.

And just to stick the knife in because I'm feeling mean and you didn't respond twice, once again Classical liberalism asserts that the individual has ontological primacy, that society is a collection of individuals, not an organic whole, that freedom is negative, that the market is the most legitimate allocator of resources and so on. None of these are neutral beliefs.

>>525924974
>without sounding mad?
what's the third option?

>>525928971
>Human Nature is a spook.
wait, so you are telling all of us now here, that you do not believe in the existence of human instincts?
So like Marxists believed, you believe that humans can be reprogrammed to be literally everything, and there is no fundamental underlying framework that defines human behaviour on DNA level?

If so, then you'd be very good friends with the LGBTQ and Feminist camps.

>>525924974
America is based on an ideology specifically designed to worship the African American. India is based on an ideology of poop.

>>525928902
You're not speaking anyone's language, though. Political theorists do not necessarily agree on the precise definition of a state, but that doesn't mean they believe that the term is meaningless.

>>525929108
And you're telling me that the soul doesn't exist and God doesn't exist, and all of us are merely meat machines that function on this "human instinct", how very materialist ideologue of you.

>>525929062
>political realism describes the fundamental nature of politics
no, it describes the fundamental nature of humans, and proceeds to base politics on that nature.
This is literally 101 in political theory, and I have no idea why it's so hard for you to grasp.

The definition of Classical Liberalism you provided screams you never studied the topic.
Imagine conflating markets with fundamentals of liberal thoughts, lmao

>>525929311
Ok bro I'm done you're retarded lol. I destroyed you on every point have fun

>>525929268
>And you're telling me that the soul doesn't exist and God doesn't exist
No, not really.
I'm just saying that God designed humans, humans don't design humans.
And if God designed humans, then there was a framework, a ruleset, a blueprint, which we all follow.

If we would take your perverted version of "God's design", then we can easily take the Devil and call him God, because "humans have the freedom to choose who is God and who isn't".
But if so, I suggest you join the Satanist church at this point

>>525929381
>I destroyed you on every point have fun
run away faster then

>>525929468
Wait, you're not an atheist? Well, that opens a whole different can of worms, what about the divine right of kings, for example? How dare you even speak of "realism" lol

>>525929808
I just see them as "queen bees", which doesn't conflict neither with "divine right" nor with "nature". Since they kinda work hand in hand

>>525929468
I think you should go back to lefty/pol/
bad-faith argumentation has more of a platform there

>>525929967
>bad-faith argumentation
what's bad faith in my arguments? Give me a list.

>>525929880
>queen bees
What? Don't you know that the purpose of a queen is to reproduce and not to rule?

>>525930400
a king was often referred to as "father of the nation"
and a queen was often referred to as the "mother of the nation"
Of course some can call me out on the word "nation", but again it's semantics. Long-story short, every society, no matter how large, is a family. And every family needs to have a parent or two.
And is this realist? - yes, it's part of human nature.
Is it divine? - also yes, family is holy.

What's your problem?

>>525926422
>in its classical form
Who gives a fuck, kike

>>525930495
My point is that your answer to >>525929808 is completely bizarre. A human queen (or king) is nothing like a queen of a hive.

>>525930832
principles of hierarchy are the same across all social species

>>525925130
Not valid to call manifest Destiny an ideology since it was a justification for what was going to happen anyway (expansion) rather than a ideology. Throughout history every state that could expand, and to whom it was advantageous to do so, did so.

>>525930984
That's not true even in insects, lol. Some colonies will have no queen, most will have one, and some may have thousands. Again, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

>>525931446
and there are human-made states that were the size of a village, and the size of an empire. Some had kings, some had presidents, some had prime ministers. Some were governed by a parliament entirely.

Your point? Sounds like you have none.

>>525924974
>genetics isn't real
confessions of a libtards everyone.

>>525931708
Okay, so a hive without a queen is like... a state governed by a parliament? Or something? Like, what the fuck are you even trying to say? You make an absurd statement like >>525930984
and then you try to support it with a complete non-sequitur. You should really stay away from political debates, or debates in general, you just suck at them. I mean, sure, it's still better than retards yelling about how Jews are the reason they can't get a girlfriend and shit, but that's not exactly clearing a high bar, is it.

>>525932275
all I said was that principles of hierarchy are the same across all social species, and you proved it with your posts. Different species can apply different frameworks or hierarchy depending on circumstances and intelligence, but at the end of the day all social species rely on hierarchies, which is the fundamental principle.
If you're incapable of having a discussion on politics, you should go back to pleddit.

Now show your flag