is it possible to have morality without god?
>>526000581Looking at the history of mankind: No.
>>526000581how are you going to determine right or wrong without someone to tell you? are you going to just pick morals from the morality tree?
>>526000687this
>>526000581Only a limited amount. Read Genesis with Enoch and Noah. They were the only righteous people left on earth. And with no Bible and no church to support them.
Of course. You just declare things that are good for society as moral, and things which are bad for society immoral. Jewish mysticism is not required.
>>526000581which god
>>526000746Compassion is the foundation of morality.
>>526000581I'd argue it's ONLY possible to be moral without god
>>526000581What is your morality with god?Looking at history, it's as bad or worse than without god.
>>526000581There is always a god. Always.
>>526000581Perhaps. But you need someone to enforce the morality, and that just so happens to be God when He returns. But He also serves justice here on Earth. Sometimes you just have to be patients. Sometimes the justice is immediate, and sometimes the justice takes years. But I believe ultimately no sin goes unpunished, or at least unaddressed.
>>526000746are you implying there's isn't any logical basis to moral codes?
>>526000777checked
>>526000746Morality can come from natural selection. Behaviors vary, have outcomes and can be passed on. Morality is functional in the physical world
>>526000581Yes. It's called "I want to live in a society where I don't get ass raped repeatedly" mentality.
>>526000581Why wouldn't it? Morality is a code of conduct.
>>526001402I feel like saying there wouldn't be a reason to be moral without some kind of god is kind of a self-own. basically them saying if there wasn't bad consequence they would do that stuff.
>>526000581There is not a single good argument for objective morals. All you can do is cry about subjective morals and why you don't like it. But everything points to the fact that we both individually and in groups decide what is moral, and often with very different results.
>>526000581Kinda but not really, you will create some sort of God figure even if you don't call it god
>>526000687>Looking at the history of mankindAre you talking about the billions of humans throughout history who have been killed in the name of your imaginary sky daddy?
>>526001086Bravo you got it. Now you can finely try to prove it ( and fail as many have tried before). Until you admit that the morality comes from somewhere other than pure logic
>>526001665Can results be objectively measured? If so, doesn't that mean one system of morality can be objectively better than another? And there can be an objective best morality?
>>526001665generational incest is bad because it leads to birth defects. there's no commendment against it though
>>526002030so you'd be okay with incest if the individuals are incapable of producing children?
Indeed, the government has the authority to define what is right and wrong, guiding society towards a more just and orderly existence.
>>526000581Yes, and even adaptive one! I mean how cool is that... :D
>>526002408ah, we're getting abstract. no, not necessarily. incest undermines the family unit and the destruction of the family unit undermines the integrity of society. populations that don't do incest tend to do better than populations that do. generally speaking.so why aren't you incesting? is not like god seems to be against it
>>526000581Of course, but it's not based on anything stable.
>>526000581yes
>>526000581God is not moral. Just look at the book of Job
>>526000581Morality IS god. It is provided to humanity by god so humanity may better serve god in all things.
>>526000581For one person? Sure. For civilization as a whole? Nope
>>526002672so, you'd be okay with incest if the individuals were sterile and the rest of their family were dead?>past populations no incest equal goodso morality is just a good track record?
>>526000581Religions give you a guidebook for being decent to other people and building a healthy society. The god part is just to scare selfish people into actually doing it.
>>526000746Exactly who speaks for your Omni-God? Which “divine” revelation is right? Do we just cringe, bow and genuflect to some random clown in a dress, in a robe, or in a $1000 preacher costume? IMHO, Hell no!!“But, this passage in the Bible sez…” Just. More unsubstantiated divine dribble spouted by ancient and obsolete Opinionmakersdressed up as revelation on High allegedly from a their mysterious source (from their butts).
>>526000581Ask Africa
>>526000581Of course dumbass. Dont let christ cucks fool you into thinking you have to belive in god to think murder unjustly is wrong or rape is wrong or stealing is wrong. Just think about the health of society or if youre white think about the guilt it causes you
>>526002432The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed", where "feed" and "seed" both end in the sound "-eed", thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's", implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck", rhyming with "Chuck". So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Feeduck and Seeduck".
Regardless of whether one accepts the existence of a deity or not, it's impossible to bridge the is-ought gap without admitting some pre-existing subjective value judgement.
>>526000581yes, but the only alternative is believing your ancestors are watching you - which almost always overlaps with believing in God. Otherwise nihilism takes over like it's happened to the atheist upper class westerners - that's the main reason the west is dying now
>>526000581>everyone ITT desperate to claim religion is the only thing keeping them or anyone else from being a fucking niggerBeing religious because you think its an afterlife police state has got to be the #1 biggest missed point of being religious. No one here is an actual Theologist. This thread is Midwit Central, and I'm getting off this ride before it kills even more brain cells.
>>526000581It is possible to be immoral with the realization that god is real embedded in your mind. That's blasphemous rejection, rebellion and nothing is sweeter than descending to great depths to taint god's creation knowing he'll sooner or later be forced to destroy it. His great work will never come to be completed because there will always be cunts like us.
>>526002906>health of society is goodso, the aztecs sacrificing children at their holy altars was a good thing
>>526001155Natural selection doesn’t favour morality. Quite the opposite in fact.
>>526000581>>526000687Looking at the history of mankind: Yes.
>>526000581Absolutely not. Relativism and subjective morality changes with the whim of the individual and society. But what is evil is evil and what is good is good, regardless of how a person feels or tries to justify it. This is because it was dictated by God. It's simple and only rebellious souls could argue otherwise, but they can only argue it in bad faith.
>>526001854Each death made the others stronger. It's not about preserving life (like downies), but giving death meaning. That keeps morality real. If you take away God you can't justify dying for justice, truth and beliefs. Morality becomes enslaved to material benefit or relative to how you feel in the moment. God allows morality to be absolute as God can see your true nature at all times. The performance becomes real if most people believe in God, and tidy realize they are happier that way, and better than human. Most people just won't put the huge effort of educating themselves into understanding why being a moral person is more important to achieve happiness than being rich and famous. It's too against human instincts.
>>526002832part of it is. if you're the kind of dude who believes in co2 based climate change running coal and such would be immoral. but if you're a settler trying to terraform mars having a large carbon footprint might be moral. so context, logic. then there's aspects of morality that are little more subjective in the empathy kind of sense of not doing stuff to other you don't want have done to yourself, resulting in concepts like truth and justice for example. but then truth and justice are also general indicators of a functional society.
>>526002982The value judgments in question are not random or arbitrary. Every sophisticated society is going to adopt a "no homicide" rule because of its objective, measurable effects on the function of said society.
Yes. God doesnt exist.Also the jewish god who told the jews to stone women, own slaves, kill infants doesnt sound so moral to me.So you have no choice but to build your own morals. Be aware of the law, they will throw you in jail for killing, stealing, etc unless youre somekind of a rich elite.
>>526003080What was the reason? Was it not to appease gods? It was based on delusions crafted by their dumb monkey brains. OR were they euthanizeing tard babies? Context matters. Of course im speaking logically. Humans are not always logical and mothers might want their retard babies to stay alive. I was answering ops question not from a "can society with imperfect humans create a morally righteous and healthy society without god" but from a "is it possible to libe without god" and it is possible but I think that would only be in a robot society. So my finale answer is yes humans do need god to stay in control because humans are imperfect
>It's another episode of "If the jew book didn't exist I would rape babies"Christcucks are such clowns
>>526000687Looking at the history of every religious society, yes.
>>526003191Optimization problem.
>>526000581Read the Odyssey
Morality is garbage. Focus on the reason we have morality in the first place.
>>526003528I said "subjective," not "arbitrary." Of course, evolutionary pressure has created a human psyche which favors value judgements which keep the society from descending into absolute war. That being said, whether that judgement takes the form of a religious, honor-based, utilitarian, or some other variety of first principle is ultimately dependent on the person and the society in which they're socialized.
YES ITS CALLED BEING A MARXIST-LENINIST!YOU ARE WELCOME
>>526000581Unfortunately, I don’t know??? Nature is cause effect and there are rules. Creation is so wacky all kinds of shit is possible: good, bad, whatever if you will it it can happen or be made. The angry man in the sky god seems like a primitive attempt to get people in line and follow the rules so Creation maintained some order… the wiseman does not seek happiness, but to prevent misfortune, but the wheels fell off long ago. The question is, can humanity follow the rules?? Historically speaking no.
>>526000581Sure, you can look at east asian countries for example, they have a morality system without god
>>526003592Not them but others. You dont think the fear of god keeps many in check? You give humanity too much value.
>>526000581It's definitely possible to lack it with god, so probably yeah.
>>526003999Just do what jews do and transmit your sins into a chicken or just get a really really long wire
>>526000581That fish clearly has no morality as he spits water at you. Where is god then? God will not come down and shield you from his spit water. Nature and strength is all there is.
>>526003835The problem with people who go about talking up the subjectivity of morality is that they usually do act like it's arbitrary. They like to believe they can redesign a society without constraints, and that the existing rules aren't based on anything objectively valid.
>>526000581Buddhists exist. Checkmate godfags
>>526004242Maybe fish god is more powerful than regular god
>>526000581If you can only be moral at the threat of damnation, you were never moral in the first place.
>>526002030As the other anon suggested. If that was true, that would mean incest would be moral again if the risk of pregnancy and/or the risk of birth defects are effectively eliminated.
>>526000581If morality is just "preference" like they all claim, the atheist can't objectively justify any critique of any ethical system.
>>526000581Morality is simply orderly and purposful action. Even when a criminal kills you there is a morality in that. He has a goal and he is rationally discriminating among means to reach that goal.
>>526004314I like how buddhist and taoists or such aren't technically against evil because there's objective morality but more rather being evil is generally not worth the effort. so being a good person is kind of a selfish thing to do ironically.
>>526000581Yes, and No.
>>526004464did you miss that whole part about undermining the family unit?
Yes, but it’s ultimately arbitrary Secular philosophers cope by saying the presuppositions which provide ethics are axiomatic, which is really just another way of saying they’re arbitrary chosen.
>>526000581yeah, you just need another "God" figurehead to lay down the rules, whether that be an emperor, king or mommy or daddy.
>>526004194what do you think christcucks already do? rabbi jewsus is a kapparot sacrifice. sin-transferral jew magic for the goyim.
>>526004648That's not morality nigger, that's just obedience
>>526000581EVERYONE HERE WHO EVER SAYS THEY CAN BE A GOOD PERSON WITHOUT GOD IS A LIAR AND MY NUMBER 1 ENEMY!YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS DECIDE WHO IS EVIL AND WHO ISN’T AND THAT IS SUBJECTIVE ANY OTHER ARGUMENT IS MADE MY LIARS WHO KNOW THAT THEY ARE LIARS.WHAT YOU CONSIDER GOOD IS ONE ONLY TO YOURSELF AS YOU ALSO HAVE TO BELIEVE THEIR IS NO AFTERLIFE AND WITH THAT YOU NOW HAVE TO STATE THAT BEING GOOD HAS TO GIVE YOU SOME BENIFIT AND NO GOOD FEELINGS ARE ALSO SUBJECTIVE. SEE GOD IS THEIR TO SAY HEY YOU PLEASE DON’T DO BAD OR YOU WON’T SEE HEAVEN.EVERYONE IN THIS FILTHY THREAD IS A LIAR AND WHY I DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY GET OUT OF LYING MAYBE IT’S THAT FEEL GOOD FEELING THAT THEY ARE ADDECTED TO.
>>526000581Without the jewish god? Yea, 100%Remember, the jewish god and his morality were actually made up by jews. So you are essentially asking if it is possible to morality without jews. And I say yes.
>>526004466A theist can't objectively justify any morality either if he can't prove the god guaranteeing his version is real.Merely claiming your morality is objective doesn't make it so.
>>526003162>Natural selection doesn’t favour morality. Quite the opposite in factIt selected for groups that could have a functional tribe and community. Humans are social animals. That is where morality comes from. We evolved to have behaviors that favor a functional community and discourage selfish behavior that is toxic to the group.
>>526004466Christians, muslims and jews say that some desert people back in the bronze/iron age figured out objective morality, I'm not an atheist but thats idiotic
>>526004393Unfortunately a lot of people need that kind of threat
Yes, but not in a rational and consistent way. You can be moral as an atheist but you cannot argue for morality as an atheist.
>>526000581Yeah, it's called Virtue Ethics.The cardinal virtues are Justice, Prudence, Temperance, and Fortitude; as long as you place these values in the forefront of your decision making process, your mistakes will at least not be down to your own poor character.Christian Neoplatonists liked the idea enough to iterate their version of it.But latterday Christians are often very stupid and dogmatic, and fail to see the beauty and use in things their own Christian forefathers appropriated from their predecessors.I'm an Englishman.My people were noble before Christ, we were noble under him, and we will remain noble after him.
so what about this: let's say the bible was the basis for your morality but the bible was just made up fiction yet you believed it to be true, would that prove or disprove objective morality?
>>526004793Morality can easily be anchored in the requirements of a functional society. Regardless, moral behavior just because (priests say) a god requires it isn't moral to me either
>>526000581Ultimately, humans need third party arbitration on morality, because we will always rationalize our actions and condemn the actions of others. Whether God exists or not, believing in a moral authority outside of ourselves that can't be bargained with is good for us. Having an objective standard that we must conform to is necessary for higher civilization. If we need to anthropomorphize that standard into a God than so be it. I personally think there is a Creator. I just don't really think the Creator wants to be worshipped so much as he wants respect, and he wants his creation respected. And morality is mostly just survival, and that which survives evolves to higher forms and continues the creative process. I think most things we think of as moral are only really moral in the context of the survival of a race or species. In other words being nice for its own sake could be bad, because being too nice to niggers harms your people, but being a genuinely nice and kind person amongst your own kind improves social cohesion and helps ensure your people's survival, which is the only actual moral aim.
>>526003162>>526004810Morals roughly close to human morals can be observed in animals. Capuchin monkeys famously have a concept of fairness, in that they want similar rewards for similar tasks.Something approximating morality seems like a requirement for any social animal. How else would individuals coordinate?
>>526002934Fuck off MI6
>>526004680well mi amigo they simply go into a box and talk with a priest and all is forgiven at least on this earthly plane of existence, but you gotta eventually talk with the big man and explain yourself
>>526004820You would probably take things into your own hands too if Bulgaria became completely lawless and had total anarchy, I'd bet 99,99% of people would do things in extreme situations that they would consider immoral in normal circumstances, morality is tied to place, time and most of all utility
>>526000581Of course. But never objective morality.
>>526004727Whenever I see religious people say shit like this all I hear is>I am basically a nigger with no impulse control>If I wasn't afraid of God I would be running around raping and stealing>The only thing that keeps me from being a toxic piece of shit is my fear of consequences>At my core I am a rabid pitbull and the only thing keeping people safe is this leash called my fear of GodMeanwhile an atheist like me is a nice person every day even though I will get no reward. I naturally don't want to act like a nigger.
>>526004601It's just moving the goal posts + some vague buzzwords. It's sounds exactly like when leftist attacks idea on the grounds that it "normalizes something". You haven't actually articulated why or what it even means that the family unit is "deconstructed" in this hypothetical. Nor does this get you any closer to objective morals, at best you and I would agree on one thing, which doesn't prove it is objectively true that it is immoral.
>>526004929>you cannot argue for morality as an atheist.Yes you can, having a morality system is highly utilitarian and its necessary to have one if you want to have a country, you dont need god to make up a morality system as we can see from east asian countries
>>526004952Well first of all it’s a silly question because you’re literally assuming off the bat that the justification for your morality is made up and then asking if your morality is made up. Of course, it would be. But that’s not any Christian’s position so it’s moot.
>>526005426Utilitiarian? As in, “it just works”?
>>526000581I'm a Deist, but God has no bearing on my morality. Only logic and common sense affect my morality.
>>526002803Jehovah is not God.
>>526000581only so much and for so long, it seems
>>526001854He's talking about the literal mass graves of men, women, and children that ancient humans used to fill up because they for whatever fucking reason decided to just murder hundreds of people.
>>526000581Better question: what does the existence of a God or gods have anything to do with morality?Stoicism does not require a god and it's a moral system.
Biblical "morality" is a false path, and in fact Satanic
>>526005221Hume did not believe in objective morality, he argued moral judgments are based on human sentiments
>>526000581God is real. But anyone who is capable of empathy and isn't a complete social retard should inherently understand the basic moral idea of "I wouldn't want someone to do X to me, so I shouldn't do X to other people."
>>526000581FUGU
>>526005386it's just a kid that has no idea what he's talking about. let the kid kid.
>>526005699When you’re talking about ethics and morals, you’re not talking about what you do but rather what you should do. In other words, you’re talking about what you should do for good reasons. The moment you start talking about reasons, the bottom falls out without God. Reason shouldn’t even exist in a materialist paradigm first of all. Reason and the logical principles that it makes use of are immaterial. And as for secular, agnostic, or atheistic non-materialists, it begs the question of from where the good reasons come from. You can accept logical reasoning but without a reason to accept it, your logical reasoning is ultimately baseless and arbitrary. If you try to get out of this by making an account of what is useful or expedient, you at best run into the trap of circularity since it would beg the question of how you know that, which was precisely in question already. Christians accept that both logic and morals derive from revealed knowledge not inductive or dicursive knowledge and thus they avoid this problem of begging the question and circularity and arbitrariness.
>>526001665I'm not really sure what objective and subjective even mean in the context of morals.
>>526005797Hume was also riddled with logical contradictions and literally every philosophy department in the world recognizes this.
>>526001665It’s one thing to say we do something, but morals deals with what we should do. You’re confusing mere disagreement about what should be the case with what should truly objectively be the case.
>>526005797human judgments and sentiments are of course subjective, but this subjectivity does not preclude the existence of Objective Morality or Truth
>>526005474I'm not the one moving the goal posts here. my justification of incest might be personal one but I'm more or less just trying to articulate sentiment most people seem to share instinctually, with exceptions, for unarticulated reasons. meanwhile it's not like the bible was very vocal against incest so why be against it if you're christian? would argue most christians still know it's wrong, but why?
Morals are vanityGod never cares for not killing God never cares for race mixing either Your morals are all vanityThere is right and wrong, and if you do wrong God will fucking destroy you.
>>526005505Yeah if you dont want to live like a solitary animal such as snakes for example you need some type of morality system, that is a prerequisite for living with a bunch of other people succesfully, even chimps have a type of morality system, they take care of the elderly and the injured of their own tribe even though that could be seen as unconducive to purely surviving, its simply a trait mammals who live in communities have
>>526000581Not your ethnosuicidal morality, yes
>>526000581Rather it's highly questionable why you'd need "god" to have morality. Are you mentally ill?
>>526006171the men who wrote the Bible were also quiet about all forms of sexual abuse, including pedophilia
>>526003274Truth is absolutely not constructed, not subjective, etc. it's purely universal, discovered, unchanging, eternal, etc. Truth is independent of consensus.
>>526006074I'm not super familiar with him so cant argue too much about it, I assume you're correct>>526006141I agree that it is possible that there exists an objective morality but we dont know what that hypothetical objective morality is, we can make a very educated guess based on historical prescedent but we dont have all the variables to say for sure whats objective morality, even less so about a bunch of iron age retards having all the answers, these are people who sacrificed goats and thought that might bring luck to them
>>526000581morality doesn't exist. what was immoral just 50 years ago is perfectly moral today, and what is moral today might not be moral in just 10 years ago. anyone that brings up morality should immediately get their teeth kicked in
>>526005296YOU JUST INSULTED ME AND THEN LIKE A LIAR YOU ARE YOU RUN BACK TO YOUR LIE.YOU ARE JUST THAT A HIDDEN RAPID ANIMAL AND YET YOU CAN’T SEE IT.LIKE I SAID ONLY LIARS WOULD DEFEND THEIR LIE AND WHAT THEY NEED IS FOR YOU TO BELIEVE.THEY ARE TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD BUT THEY ARE ALWAYS EMPTY HUSK OF SHIT THAT I WONDER WHY THINGS LIKE THIS EXIST BUT SEE I CAN SIT BACK AND WATCH YOU SUFFER AND NAY I KNOW YOU PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO I CONSIDER HELLBOUND BUT TIME WILL SHOW IT AND WHEN IT DOES YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME I GAVE UP ON YOU FROM THE VERY BEGINNING LOOK AT YOUR COUNTRIES AND NOTE THIS IS BUT THE BEGINNING...
>>526003080If it was to get rid of sickly individuals then actually yes it was good because eugenics and mercy.Morality should be constructed around two principles: the health of the individual and the health of society.What one ought to do is based on what is best for the species as a whole and the individuals that make up said species.
>>526006385truth is truth but obviously some aspects of truth a context dependent or constructed. when I was ten and told you I was telling you about being 10 years old I was telling you the truth. if I told you I was 10 at 40 I wasn't. in terms of society if enough people believe we aren't living in a high trust society anymore it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. but that's just an example.
>>526006333>quietNigger it outright states only virgin children should be married in Lev 21. This is the most censored chapter in the entire Bible. Every edition since the 80’s just says “woman hurr” instead.
>>526006499>we dont know what that hypothetical objective morality isThe First Law is Vegetarianism. All the rest can be derived from that.
>>526006224>even chimps have a type of morality systemI'm not sure this qualifies as such, although I'm not saying it doesn't also apply with humans.Monkey mortality is more of a law enforcement thing. He doesn't steal the other monkey's banana because of morals, but because he'll get his ass kicked. Unless he's the alpha, of course, then he does whatever the fuck he wants.There's also this monkey shower experiment, where monkeys learned to kick another monkey's ass for an arbitrary nonexistent violation, establishing self- perpetuating behaviour norms that persist even after the foundation is removed.
>>526000581It would be the uphill battle of all time
>>526006074> Hume was also riddled with logical contradictionsYes, but where is the logical contradiction in >>526005221
>>526003264What if you believe in a God but no afterlife, or a God but no punishment/reward, or a god that only tortures and punishes people, or a god that only redeems everyone, or a God but you just reincarnate, etc.?God is so utterly inconsequential to morality. If anything it's the afterlife that matters to morality. If there is an afterlife that has a huge bearing on what is moral or not, whereas the existence of a God has zero bearing on the issue.
>>526006530Just like I was saying. You are a totally unhinged psycho and the only thing keeping you from harming others is your fear of consciences. You are an evil person at heart and only restrained by your selfish fear of consequences.
>>526006661I will smash your head, rape your female relatives and eat your pets.
>>526006869You will suffer greatly.
>>526006385I believe that "truth" "objective truth" and "truth in itself" is nothing but a superposition of contradictory affirmations, every truth exists in this state as a possibility, and everything that is possible can be said to be true. However beyond this truth, when we look at the social or individual level. Truth is chosen, created and imposed not given. If we think something else we are just lying to ourselves.
>>526006634The temporal states and relations that entities assumed in the past is not truth, it is fact, which is different. A fact is simply "that which has been". Whereas truth is "that which is, always".
>>526006700As I explained earlier, Christians evade this problem by basing their ought on revealed knowledge. They reason about that revealed knowledge, but that’s very different from saying their ought is based on it. It’s simply incorrect to imply that ethical questions must be based on reasoning and thus subjective reasons.
>>526000581>Morality without GodCompletely delusional.
>>526006955>Truth is errorNihilism is error
>>526006224When you say “it works”, in what way? How do you know that?
>>526000581if you understand and care about knock on effects, and understand just how much society carries your ass, yes its possiblethe overwhelming majority do not understand this or actively forego it
>>526005426>highly utilitarianUtilitarianism is flawed. How can you argue that any one crime is immoral to the perpetrator if they benefit from it?
>>526006867YOU ARE EITHER STUPID WHICH I GUESS MAKES SENSE OR YOU ARE SOME EVIL SICK DUDE WHO IS MAD HE CONTROLS NOTHING.CALLING SOMEONE ANYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE WHY SHOULD ANYONE LISTEN TO YOU?SEE THAT IS THE MAJOR ISSUE AND YOU ALL CAN’T BULLSHIT YOUR WAY THROUGH IT.TELL ME WHY SHOULD ANYONE LISTEN TO YOU THE KING OF THE LOSERS?
>>526006171In Christian orthopraxy, incest is immoral for various reasons but is by degrees less immoral than for example homosexuality. There have been instances of incest made permissible by law by the church, though these are absurdly rare. There are no examples of homosexuality made permissible by law by the church.
>>526007081the Whole does not benefit from Evil
>>526007023I have never said "truth is error" not even implicitly
>>526006937That's a given in this life.Take your share.
>>526006937FROM WHO? YOU? YOU WILL BE DEAD AND EVERYONE ELSE WILL WATCH THAT IS YOUR END DO YOU NOT SEE THAT YOUR LOGIC IS BROKEN AS ARE YOU!
>>526006661I'd say it would be moral to put you in prison for years simply for uttering something so idiotic>>526006662But chimps take care of the injured not because they will get their ass kicked, its something thats hardwired to mammals that live in groups, what a morality system is I would argue is just an extention of this same thing>There's also this monkey shower experiment, where monkeys learned to kick another monkey's ass for an arbitrary nonexistent violation, establishing self- perpetuating behaviour norms that persist even after the foundation is removed.This streghtens my argument imo, you can make humans do that too via implementing retarded morality systems, like doctors cutting peoples genitals off and claiming thats good, the exact same phenomena
>>526007159then Truth is True
>>526005675Good thing Christcucks outdid them in every way. And then they even shilled for monarchy establishment which was the deadliest system in human history
>>526000581you think following the commands of a mad god makes you a good person?
>>526006955Truth only applies to reality, the universal, the laws of nature, that kind of stuff.It does not apply to temporal shit.Gravity is a truth, law of association is a truth, anything that is outside of time and which never changes is a truth.The state that something assumed in a specific instance of time is not a truth but a fact.Everything concerning maya / the world of change / the temporal is not truth.Truth is the laws of nature / the system. Not the temporal states of entities within the system.
>>526007251We warned them about Sheogorath
>>526000581Absolutely because there is the hypothetical that god does not exist. Hypothetically if all religion was made up(which since there is no physical proof of god you have to grant) then there is the possibility that our entire moral system was man made and not divine even if we think it is coming from a god.
>>526007206Meaningless tautology
Genesis 3:22
>>526007206TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE WHEN YOU DIE YOU CEASE FROM EXISTANCE AND ALL YOUR TRUTH BECOMES THROWN AWAY. THIS IS THE ONLY TRUTH BUT LITTLE LOSER PEOPLE LIVE IN YOUR DELUSION BUT WHEN YOU DIE NOTE THAT IS THE ONLY TRUTH..
>>526007332only if your understanding of "meaning" is entirely semantic
>>526007307Truth is not immobility. You can't separate truth from fact, that's an arbitrary and i would say useless distinction
>>526007047>>526007081Its conducive to making a competetive society that doesn't destroy itself via infighting or by getting conquered by another people, we know this via countless historical examples, we know it works because these kinds of societies last longer, are less prone to infighting and less likely to get conquered due to lacking social cohesion. How do you know people from the iron age had all the answers about objective morality when we know they were wrong about almost everything else if you go down to the details?
>>526007444AND THAT IS ALSO SUBJECTIVE UNDERSTANDING AND MEANING ARE BOTH SUBJECTIVE BUT KEEP GOING.
>>526000581If you're not a subhuman? Sure.
>>526007561Right but how do you know that? Like presumably you’re reasoning using logical principles or something about these historical examples, no?
>>526000746>needing another person to jewsplain what is right and wrongHitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Mosaic law is nothing other than the doctrine for preservation of the jewish race. Isn't that really at the heart of all ethnic religions--preservation of the tribe? The basic religious difference today is the jews keep their Old, primal covenant with Yahweh (even if they arent "observant" they still practice the religion as "is it good for the jews") but starting with the judeo-Roman empire, Europe was forcefed a New, "universal" covenant. Our theological well was poisoned, our sacred trees hewn like Asherah poles (Yahweh commands it.)
>>526000581yes>>526000687>>526000746both of these faggots are glowing non playable characters, you CAN run them over
>>526001976Pure logic is wanting your species to advance and keep on advancing, maybe you don't have that chip installed yet.
>>526007631THAT IS ALSO SUBJECTIVE AND YOU HAVE TO AGREE WHO IS AND WHO ISN’T AND BUDDY YOU HAVE NO POWER. THAT’S WHY I CAN TALK BIG AND BAD BECAUSE LOOK AT THE POWER YOU HOLD...YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING EXCEPT LEAVE AND THAT IS THE ONLY ANSWER.
>>526002432Don't care, go kill a baby because of lambs blood or something, faggot
>>526007773NO IT’S NOT THIS IS FAULTY LOGIC AND THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS ARE THE SLAVES LIKE THIS SLAVE WHO WANT YOU TO BE LIKE THEM A SLAVE WITH NO POWER!
>>526007802If you need the fear of punishment from some "greater power" to act slightly normal, you're subhuman.
>>526007773the logic of selfishness sees things in parts, not wholes, and hence is not "pure logic", merely self-aggrandizing
>>526007561You are talking about creating laws. I'm asking you, if someone pointed a gun at your forehead, wanting to kill you and knowing that he will get away with it, how would you convince him not to kill you? Because I don't think you can even argue that what he's doing is "wrong" as far as he cares.
>>526000581>is it possible to have morality without god?It's the only way to have. God has nothing to do with morality other than being cope or a scapegoat for those trying to justify their immorality.
>>526007922There are Lords of Karma, there is Justice in the worlds
>>526007914I THINK THE OPPOSITE AND NOW YOU ARE A SUBHUMAN.SEE YOU HAVE NO POWER ONLY WORDS THAT LEAD TO YOU LEAVING LIKE A LOSER!
>>526000687Most of human history predates your "god". >>526000581Which "god"? Your jewish blood sacrifice cow demon?Humans invent morality, then invent gods to fulfill it. Not the other way around.
>>526008061OH SO YOU DO BELIEVE IN GOD? WOW. YOU JUST CALL HIM A DIFFERENT NAME.ARE YOU STUPID?
>>526000581No you are probably right morality was made up by a Jew... Do you hear how fucking stupid you sound?
>>526007653What do you mean how do I know that? Thats a stupid question, groups of people without a morality system dont exist for long because its maladaptive behaviour, they get conquered by people who do utilize this social technology and getting conquered is insanely immoral (objectively). How do you know this one group of people from the iron age has the exact object morality down to a t figured out even though they were wrong about a lot regarding several scientific topics etc? What my point is is that morality is highly tied to place, time and most of all utility. Your argument is that iron age people figured out everything, thats dumb
Opposite. When there is the True God you're finally free from the shitty realm of Morality and all the faggotry that comes with it.Praise the Lord.
>>526008061e.g.
>>526008210Take it from me, the sanctified tranny molestor
>>526008158HISTORY THAT WE ONLY KNOW BY PICTURES AND WORDS SUBJECTIVE IS ALL OF HISTORY YOU REALLY HAVE NO TRUE HISTORY ONLY WORDS BY YOUR MASTERS.
>>526008158Nailed it. Spinozan Gods are a control mechanism designed to keep dumb people in line before cameras. You wouldn't steal if someone was watching right anons....
>>526000581Yes. Morality was invented before religion.
>>526000581yeah>what do you mean i aint kind? i'm just not your kind...
>What is near her is burning
>>526008323There's probably at least a couple white people in this thread that can honestly answer yes. Kys nigger.
>FUCKING BITCH
>>526008408ONCE AGAIN YOU NOW GO BACK AND HIDE YOUR WORLD IS CRUMBLING AND NAY I WILL NOT HELP FOR NOW I KNOW YOUR LOGIC EVERY SINGLE PERSON BUT ME IS TELLING THE TRUTH AND WITH THAT I WILL WATCH EACH AND EVERY PERSON DIE WITH THE SAME EXPRESSION OF I THOUGHT YOU HAD PERFECT LOGIC...NAY I NOW WILL WATCH EVERYTHING GO TO HELL I WON’T LIFT A FINGER BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ARE ALL LIARS.REMEMBER YOU ALL TOLD ME THAT YOU ARE OPENLY LIARS.
>>526007917If they are pointing a gun at my head for no reason what point is there to try and convince the guy about some moral reason to not shoot me? Let me guess you would tell him he will burn in hell forever and god will punish him if that person shoots? I'd just tell the guy that there is not a lot to achieve by killing me for no reason, if he wants to kill me for some kind of sick pleasure no utilitarian or god based reason is going to work anyways
>>526008481Awww he believes in logically impossible omnipotent beings... Anon can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it... Is he a stronger creator or being?
>>526000581God symbolizes the universal, so no
>>526000581that depends what you mean my God
>>526008323YOU ALL STEAL YOU WOULDN’T BE ALIVE IF DIDN’T STEAL SOMEONE ELSES LIFE AND WHEN YOU WERE A SPERM YOU KILLED THE OTHERS TO BE BORN.NOW WHO WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND? YOU ARE ALL MURDERERS BUT YOU ALL AGREE THAT YOU ARE NOT AND LOOK AT YOU MONSTERS!
>>526000581it is entirely impossible to have even the slighest shred of morality with the shit on the floor tyrant known as "god"or "jesus christ"a sociopathic malevolent parasitic eregore that created this false black hole world to rape children and torture us all while eating poopfuck the shit on the floor known as jesus christ he is a complete and total lying evil kike and there is no omnipotence anywhere ever.fuck this piece of shit for real
>>526008727Gravity is not a problem for the Gods
>>526008727I don't believe in god. I believe in total jeet death, aka morality.
>>526008880Kek not an answer... Let's make it easier. Is God all good or all powerful?
>>526008323>Spinozan Gods?? you mean, everything in the universe?
>>526000581Yes. Objective one? Bit more difficult.
>>526005675You mean just like abrahamoids love(d) to do?Almost like people are retarded no matter what magical bullshit they believe in
>>526008953Both
>>526000581Yes.Is it preferable?No.You would need a draconian police state to keep the average pleb in line.You have to understand that there are many people who, without threats of some eternal punishment or great reward for being good in this life they would be absolute monsters.I've had very devout very law abiding and moral seeming people tell me>Well if there's no God then why bother? Why not go around raping and stealing and murdering?You have to understand that the laws of the land would not stop these people. They would not be "good" for the sake of it. For them it's a labor not to be absolute fiends it is a sacrifice they are making for their God's approval.
>>526008673Maybe they have a reason and stand to gain from it, be it self-satisfaction or material gain. In any case, say your would-be murderer is 100% a utilitarian too. How would you convince him not to kill you, from a purely utilitarian point of view? Again, I don't think you can.
>>526000581Morality without God is like picking and choosing what is convenient to you in the moment.Morally speaking, with God, it is wrong to murder someone for their possessions. Without God, you effectively make that a suggestion at best.
morality without god? nomorality doesn't exist, it's a fake concept. If you can circumcise a baby you can kill or do any crime. In other words: god doesn't exist and neither does morality.
>>526000581the most disgusting criminals and terrorists in Europe are all Muslim, morality is extremely subjective and believing in a "God" doesn't make you a good person at all.
>>526008481If you need an invisible friend to tell you not to be a nigger, you're not going to make it.The "Golden Rule" is unironically better than anything put in any holy book, ever.
>>526000581Yes, Master Morality for one. But I just sidestep that spooky pile of shit altogether and reject concepts like good and evil.
>Community or a society is good for your survival, because without it a larger community will kill you and take your resources.>In order to have a functioning strong community that cares about each other, you need not to fuck over people around you.>Therefore you evolve innate morality so you can function in a community to maximize your survival>Some retard: You can't have morality without god!!There you go.You'll only understand this if you're white though.If you don't get it, you're a lesser human and need an imaginary threat from an omnipotent observer to keep your shit behavior in check.
>>526009053Kek interesting at least one niggers not retarded. It autocorrected nonspinozan. Spanoza proposed God as an element of natures veing.
>>526009170>morality doesn't exist, it's a fake concept.It's a human concept, but one with utilitarian value. That being said, humans invent morality. Which is why it's "moral" to let women vote in the West whereas it's "moral" to beat women in the East. In both cases, cultures created gods to fulfill that criteria. Moral is not objective, no matter how loudly christians shriek.
>>526009272"Master Morality" is how demons are enslaved
>>526000581Objective morality is impossible without God. It’s possible to pick a set of principles to live by but without God they’re all arbitrary and debatable
>>526009076So why does he allow evil to exist? How can he be all good when he allows the rape of a child? Does he choose not to stop it? Therefore not all good? Or could he not? Therefore not all powerful? Gotta be one right?
>>526009413Compassion is the foundation of Morality, the tree has roots
>>526009216YOU ARE ONE ALREADY YOU ARE A MONSTER WHO HAS ALREADY KILLED BUT YOU ACT LIKE THE LEFT AND YOU SAY UM I’M A GOOD PERSON WHILE KNOWING THAT YOU KILLED MILLIONS TO BE ALIVE AND NOW YOU SAY THAT THEY DIDN’T EXIST. WHO WOULD WANT TO LISTEN TO AN OPENLY LIAR YOU ALL HAVE KILLED AND CONTINUE TO KILL DO YOU NOT EAT I KNOW YOU DO.SO ANON YOU ARE THE NIGGER SURROUNDED BY NIGGERS WHO THINK JUST LIKE YOU A MONSTER OPENLY.
>>526009485Love cannot force anyone to do anything.
>>526009413Keeeek wait so God invented objective morality... It wasn't objective... And then he made it so? Nigger what do you think objective means?
>>526009590So not all powerful... Cool we are on the same page
>>526009638You have a naive, tyrannical, and loveless view of divine power
>>526009590LOVE DOESN’T EXIST AND NEITHER DOES HATE IT’S ONCE AGAIN SUBJECTIVE JUST EMPTY WORDS YOU ALL HAVE TO AGREE TO.
>>526000581this is gods morality>At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)exodus 4:24>David took his men with him and went out and killed two hundred Philistines and brought back their foreskins. They counted out the full number to the king so that David might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.1 Samuel 18:27>And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskinsJoshua 5:3
>>526009134I dont think you can convince him either if he is just determined to kill you though, if the guy is like me he values a society where random murders are not a thing because that kind of behaviour makes a society weak to all sorts of threats which in turn can make his existance precarious in the long term aswel, if you live with other humans antisocial behaviour like murdering random people is obviously not desirable, that is what I mean by utility
>>526000581doesn't paul say some morality is written on people's hearts, that some morals are innate?i guess a few people could be moral without God, though obv. not without sin
OP, some fucking televangelist insisted God told him that he instructed Trump to steal Venezuela's oil. You can't even say people are moral WITH God let alone without him. God is basically just the collective cultural ID dripping into your subconcious half-realized notions. If the ID and your notions are all shit then your God ends up being shit. That's how you end up with ICE-thugs who think they're christian brutalizing immigrants who are also Christian fleeing from some drug cartel full of people wearing tacky crucifixes, all the while everything insists they're big fans of the guy who said "love your enemies, turn the other cheek, don't mistreat the alien, muh good samaritan etc.".
>>526009719No you are just Jewish. You stated God has no power to do evil. The devil does. So God can't stop the devil. There is nothing stopping the devil from doing good. So the devil is all powerful and actually God... Long form judaism
>>526009756HERE’S A SECRET EVEN THE ALL POWERFUL GOD DOESN’T HAVE THE TRUTH AND GOD DOESN’T HAVE MORALITY BECAUSE IT IS MADE UP BUT HAVE FUN WITH IT. YOU WILL ALL MEET ME WHEN YOU DIE AND TELL ME WHAT ALL THOSE LIES DID FOR YOU.
>>526009413>Objective morality is impossible without Godwhat youre saying is>if i didnt have this bible, i would be raping your daughter rnyou are horrible subhuman
self-restrained omnipotence, which allows freedom for all beings, is in fact much greater than crude tyrannical power — white men have trouble understanding the more advanced spiritual concepts
>>526009485This is a basic bitch argument that has a basic bitch answer.>God gave man free will>Humans use their free will to commit evil.>God punishes and rewards accordingly.If you really want to get into the meat and potatoes you need to ask things like >Why didn't God just vaporize the people he didn't like instead of making a flood?>Why couldn't God stop an attack simply because the opposing force had iron chariots>Why do miracles go from very tangible and easily distinguished shows of power to everyone to the modern day of its only a miracle if you believe it is?Those are the bigger tripping points.
>>526009933YES THAT IS CORRECT NOW GO BACK INTO YOUR HOLE.
>>526009944So not all good. Got it. Remember when you said also all good. He allows evil to exist. That's not all good. See how fucking stupid the things you think are?
>>526000581....? yes? You need some church to threaten you into being a good person to actually be good? I believe in a sort of god maybe, but I don't need that to be a good person.
>>526009944SEE I RATHER WATCH YOU GUYS DIE AND IF GOD EXISTS THEY THINK AND DO THE SAME THING.
>>526009983Nope you just admitted he isn't all good.
>>526010032You appear to be unable to understand the higher concepts. God is both all good and all powerful. Evil is chosen by the beings themselves, and does not come from God.
>>526009827This is a direct reflection of giving women way more power and control over the future of the population. Women do not sexually select for morality. You will never have a moral society without controlling female sexual selection, period. Nothing you do, not religion or anything else, will mean anything until you fix that.
>>526000581absolutely. morality started as a transactional affair and that is how it works best. abandoning any sense of morality never goes well
>>526010149You just stated God is all good and created a world filled with evil he refuses to change... You are logically inconsistent. That's fine. Just admit it... Wait until you find out I believe in God I just don't let Jewish lawyers rule his nature
If human happiness can be measured then objective morality is theoretically possible
The white man thinks that "the good god" would be a petty tyrant, like him
>>526010267>God is all good and created a world filled with evili appreciate the meme
>>526010267you haven't figured out the origins of evil yet, which is why you can't understand what I'm telling you... there is no paradox
>>526010399So state them because everything you have said so far is logically retarded so for now I'm just going to assume you are black and believe the women that sing on sunday
>>5260048101 Dan Dennet is meme tier, a nobody philosopher2 What you describe would lead to race based morality, favoring those with shared dna That is a far cry from proper, Christian, morality3 to know love is to know God, John 11 or something
>>526009413Well morality is debatable and highly based on the circumstances, for example if you are in the middle of the ocean on a life boat for weeks and your continued existance is reliant on eating another human being I wouldn't say its necessarily immoral to do so if the person has already died, it is insanely disgusting but what are you going to do just die yourself too? Killing can be moral too if your or your loved ones life is threatened
>>526007231No rabbi, we went to the middle east in response to muslims and jews.
>>526010516You chose Evil.
>>526010625So you refuse to explain... Absolutely bodied... Your fake God would be ashamed. You're supposed to spread his word
>>526010671That is the explanation. You chose Evil. You made yourself Evil.
>>526010753Cool I'm probably wrong then... Feel free to explain. I told you I believe in God. Maybe you are correct. Convince me
>>526009776I'm saying he 100% agrees with you on utilitarianism and is, in fact, acting according to it. He does believe that laws should be implemented in a purely utilitarian manner, and that individuals in a society as a whole benefit from it. That all entered his moral-utilitarian calculation. It's just that he's going to get away with it and be better off because of it.Utilitarianism breaks down in an individual level. You cannot ever advise someone not to do something if the whole of your morality comes from utilitarianism is they stand to gain from it.
>>526010822I don't feel like talking to you. You are hateful and vile.
>>526000581humans aren't bound by morals anyway god or not. so many people have been excommunicated, meaning that they didn't take hell that seriously.
>>526010907Kek lucky this wasn't Georgia... you'd owe me a golden fiddle you pathetic nigger
>>526000581Yes. I don't believe in a god, but I know I can't do certain things because of the feeling I get when I even think about doing it, let alone attempting to, or the immediate regret and guilt that's happened after when I've tried hardest to ignore those warning flags and gone through with it.
>>526000581Yes and no you can be moralBut you can't have objective morality without an objective standardA society can decide something is moral without God.Someone can be good without believing in God. Many people who don't believe in God are good people and many who do believe in God are not good people.But God is necessary for the concept of an objective morality.
>>526010886If he agrees with me then I'm completely safe since he doesn't want a society thats weak to internal and external threats, he also doesn't want to be on guard himself or fear for his relatives. If he was like me and pointed a gun at me then he would have an extremely viable reason to do so>Utilitarianism breaks down in an individual levelWell luckily I'm not an individualist, its horse shit, we all belong to some kind of community unless we purposefully alienate ourselves from it, what you are describing is an antisocial psychopath, there is no religious or utilitarian reasoning that can stop a person like that, only force will, vast majority of people are not antisocial psychopaths though
>morality comes from "god"Morals long preceded organized religions by tens of thousands of years.All your purpose and morality comes from within you, if you're not an NPC who sold off these faculties to a bunch of Middle-Eastern merchants.All human morals are established by humans, including the ones in your bible. The ones I follow just don't have the Jewish fairy tale aspect to it.Even animals have certain morals that allow them to survive and cooperate in a group, i.e. helping each other when in danger and sharing food.If you claim that morality (i.e. objectively good behavior) comes from your "god", then here's how you prove it:1. Prove your "god" exists2. Prove your "god" is benevolent enough to follow his moral code, and3. Prove your "god" is the author of said moral code, not the humans who actually wrote them.Don't worry, you'll never get past step 1.
>>526000581Depends on how you define morality. Within the context that you seem to be suggesting that morality is derived from a set of religious beliefs based in deism of some sort, and if we contextualize that further relative to the correlative moralistic principles of modern religion and the lack of adherence by the majority of practitioners versus societal expectations....The simple, objective answer: Yes.
>>526000581Yes, as long as you have a brain.
>>526000581Morality is wholly independent of God, as can be clearly seen from the fact that religious doctrines on right and wrong differ from one another and change over time, i.e. all morality is wholly man-made and only attributed to a divine source in a post-hoc rationalization
>>526000581As long as you have empathy then you don't need God. The problem is that the 'believers' in America don't have any so they need some higher power to tell them that testing others badly isn't a good thing.
>>526001032>I'd argue it's ONLY possible to be moral without godTrue. Because if you are just doing the right thing for the heavenly reward, you're a moral sell-out.
>>526011493Morality is also subjective which is the clearest proof of its indifferent retardation. I'm going to paraphrase because I'm old and retarded. But there was a man from the edge of gaul whose brother was killed in rome. When he died his brother cut out his heart to eat for it was the only way he could ascend to heaven... Upon seeing this atrocity he was killed and they for his viciousness and both of their bodies burned... A practice those from gaul believed doomed them to hell.
>>526011341>But God is necessary for the concept of an objective moralityI don't think that's necessarily true. You are just passing the subjectivity to a more powerful entity.Given that, I think it's entirely possible to have an objective morality without a god by the same sort of mechanism it's just your society holds some moral axioms as objective.In this way you end up with something akin to how the US set up its laws.Objective moral truth would be like what is in the constitution and applied everywhere in society. So let's say free speech for example.Subjective moral truth would be anything not in that objective writ. So like Kentucky saying you can't feed ice cream to a horse on Sunday.
>>526011676>testing others badly>meme flagEither learn your western colloquialisms or stop posting, brownoid niggerfaggot.
>>526000581the very origin of the word is Latin mos, and Latins called their mos not mos Deorum but mos Maiorum, the custom/law of the forefathers; in their mind, their morality was defined by what their forefathers did, even if of course back in the iron age there was obviously no definite distinction between profane and sacredand it's pretty obvious to see that linking morality to divinity is a priestly technique to make it appear stronger
>>526011868Then it becomes subjective, thoughAn eternal cause of everything is the closest you can get to an objective moral standard
>>526007773By that logic I can justify all kinds of absolutely horrendous acts. Hell, I can think of three dystopian movies off the top of my head based on that exact premise.
>>526001035God has a very specific meaning. That ain't it.
>>526000581There are many systems of morality that don't involve your Jew god YHWH
>>526000581A lot theists are entirely in or amoral, kikes, muslims, jeets, many christians, so of course it isnt a guarantee to morality to be a believer, and many atheists can be moral, but being indoctrinated helps for a people to behave in a certain way.
>>526001065>But you need someone to enforce the morality,Elders, Leaders, Men. Those are the enforcers. If they fail, it's on the lessers. If they fail, their civilization fails. You don't need a god to enforce shit, you just need men with strength of character and a strong cohesive in-group.
>>526000581It reverts to Elder reverence, but wisdom and morality aren’t always the same play. A very wise elder calculates with morality in mind, but always defers to an outcome based system.
>>526007914Define subhuman? You misinterpret the claim. The claim isn't you need a sky daddy, the claim is the fact that you DONT need a sky daddy stands as proof of a law giver. You have rules inside that you didn't put there and that you often struggle against. Those rules came from somewhere. You are trying to claim moral objectivity exists without a moral standard while living under a moral standard.
>>526001976>Until you admit that the morality comes from somewhere other than pure logicFucking beaner, and your shitskin mysticism. Spics are almost as bad as niggers when it comes to their hoodoo and voodoo superstitious bullshit.
>>526012246That's not what he said retard and that is an illogical statement. I can describe why I think everything I think because I'm not some nigger that just accepts concepts because someone tells me sky daddy said so. I think them because I thought them through. Want proof? Ask a question
>>526000581All humans posses spirituality as the quality of being a fragment of God with consciousness along with nature itself. Morality is the natural evolution of spirituality and with it comes elevated consciousness and with elevated consciousness comes more energy and more of the divine spark itself. There is not a person on this earth without spirituality despite their claims. Religion is just a construct built on top of spirituality to draw its power into material power for itself often at the cost of its own. It is parasitic in nature.Morality is a selective pressure that allows cooperation. Only cooperation allows for greater expansion. It is evident in human co-domestication. Our physical bodies are lagging our advancements but the spirit can be grown to help us surpass those limits with a fusion of spirituality and technology.The world will grow more moral and more weird at the same time.
>>526012018I can think of le evil acts more than you, put all pedophiles in camps to study, put all zoophiles in camps to study, put all rapists in camps to study, and uhh put all serial killers in camps to study
>>526011997Until it changes its mind.>But it never would!>Every jot and tittle of the law!Oh whoopsee looks like there was an event that made that not really matter all that much.>It still should be followed!Yeah but a law, moral or secular, unenforced or enforcement circumvented through some means is not really a law now is it?
>>526002432Get Fucked. I don't need god and I definitely don't need Big Gov telling me what is right and wrong.
>>526012722All morals are subjective. They are literally based on opinions... Nigger you are retarded. There are subjective disagreements over morales in the Bible... Is everyone on this website fucking retarded? State one objective moral not disputed in the bible
>>526000581I don't know anymore. Raised in a cult, now I'm out of the cult, but atheists are a bunch of free range hedonists and I'm embarrassed to associate with them. As for the rest of you theists, you look like larpers with centuries old DnD manuals. Existence is a fucking circus.
>>526000581No.>>526001854> EVERY SINGLE ACT OF KILLING HAPPENED BECAUSE RELIGIONFound the jew.>>526003690Kike rat. >>526007703> The basic religious difference today is the jews keep their Old, primal covenant with YahwehWtf are you talking about, kike rat?There is nothing old about your talmudic cult.The talmud is a relatively recent invention, subject to constant and unending modification.
>>526012895>State one objective moral not disputed in the bibleGayness is wrong
>>526007703>but starting with the judeo-Roman empire, Holy fucking shit you are delusional, you dirty kike rat. > Europe was forcefed a New, "universal" covenantEuropeans invented Christianity, you inbred lampshade.Christianity loathed you dirty kikes.
>>526000581>no mention of NietzscheIs /pol/ is this illiterate?>What is good?--Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself,in man.>What is evil?--Whatever springs from weakness.
>>526013067Sure I'm interested... What does it state?
>>526000581Man created god, therefore man created morality. The only people who don't have morality are people with antisocial personality disorder, they were born with no empathy.
>>526000581>is it possible to have morality without god?yes, its innate, created by evolution to keep the tribe together.
>>526013141I love it when kike brainlets like you cite him when attempting to attack Christianity.
>>526000687It is only the jewish G-d that can give humanity morality
>>526013169>The only people who don't have morality are people with antisocial personality disorder, they were born with no empathy.Jews don't have morality.Anyhow, a belief in God renders the morals attributed to him epistemologically objective.It is not without good reason that every single society throughout history had some sort of God(s), with the exception of modern Western society, which is slowly dying.
>>526012895circumcision is objectively immoralbut apparently god told abraham to do it (a real god would never), and when he came down to earth he didn't abolish it (a real god would)so the god of abraham is fakeand jesus was not god
>>526013281Reveal your flag cryptojew. I said nothing about Christianity. The question was the EXISTENCE of a morality without a God. I provided one of the more famous examples, which nobody in this thread (so far) was literate enough to know. I'm surrounded by brainlets on all sides.>Ctrl-F Kant>0 results
>Open the Holy Bible>Cross out every mention on the word 'god'.>Replace with 'you'>Profit
>>526013260>yes, its innate, created by evolution to keep the tribe together.No, it really isn't, as proven by comparing post and pre Christian West.>>526013403You have no God, shlomo, you inbred pedophile.How can God ever be anything like his most revolting creations?I love how the only way you can badmouth Christianity is by claiming it as your own, you are aware of how TRULY revolting you are to humans aren't you.
