Social Democracy, communism, fascism, national socialism all failures. The only thing that sort of works from the modern era are communist parties that quietly drop the communism part . And that only really happens in Asia (western leftists are not able to drop the communism part). And in reality that is a more ancient form of Asiatic government, a Mandarinate. The white race should revert to the older form of government it thrived under and return to monarchy. All people would need to do is surrender their false pride about theoretically having a say in the government (you don't actually have one). But monarchies are actually more sensitive to collective public opinion because they don't have a good way to manufacture consent when its not there. I can't think of a monarchy other than the Western Roman Empire right before it collapsed that ever allowed mass immigration into a territory that had already been settled.
>>526150086roman republic was kino
>and return to monarchypedophile "nobles" killed trillions in ww1 because they were so inbred and all had subhuman schizophrenic anglo genes
>>526150086These threads aren't made to create a debate but to prepare you mentally to the future jews wrote for you.
simple as.
>>526150086> National socialism is betterIn the West National Socialism lasted about 12 years and had probably doomed itself before then. The Ukraine is the most national socialistic type government since then. Western national socialists seem to have a bad habit of picking fights they can't win.China post Deng is arguably a mandirate with national socialist characteristics but no Western party could get to what China has because Western leftists do not seem to be capable of abandoning the leftist and unworkable parts of their ideologies the way Asian communist parties seem to be able to.
>>526150086>collective public opinion because they don't have a good way to manufacture consent when its not there.“lol” one kingdom would be treating its serfs well. another would begin a siege on them, then they can’t get food anymore. now the serfs are angry. you could have learned that from lotr or got.
>>526150173The Roman Republic entered into a social entropy cycle correcitble only via the rule of one man after the second Punic war. Their elite like our elite decided to become kleptocrats. Good men within the elite who opposed this like Tiberius Gracchus were killed until Caesar showed up and beat them (but they still murdered him afterwords). Then Augustus ended the Republic and replaced it with a monarchy.
>>526150201The last two years of WWI at least were entirely on the Democracies. If they weren't involved it would have ended with a negotiated peace.
>>526150390all governments eventually become corrupt and need to change their ideology at some point
>>526150086Fascism hasn't even been truly tried yet, but it soon will be. Count on it.
>>526150086Everything in the past failed. I have a better solution for a new government design that's not the same rehashed dog shit of the past.
>>526150251The The Ukrainians have had a national socialist government run exclusively by US proxy kikes since 2014. They've had a few NS-like presidents before that who were so godawful and extremely corrupt that the Russia-neutral guy was the only one who had decent ratings for a time and provided tangible/visible benefits to the the Ukrainians
>>526150760I generally agree but monarchies have a far greater ability to course correct when things get really bad than any kind of republic or party dictatorship. The only example of a non monarchy doing a massive course correction I can think of were the already mentioned Asian communist parties. >>526150850> Read fascism has never been triedI like to say this to troll leftists too but c'mon. We know its cope.
>>526150086Collectivism is anathema to virtue.
>>526151049> Collectivism vs Individualism Sloganeering from a dispute between commies and libertarians when both groups are wrong. Now libertarians are right on some economic questions and basically I think Hoppe is a good dude, but what most people consider libertarian ideology only works in an ultra high trust protestant Anglo Saxon society that makes unprincipled exceptions to exclude non Anglo immigrants and deny rights to women.
>>526150993Yes so said the radicals of the enlightenment who delivered nothing but failure. I say we stop listening to this crap and return to what worked best.
>>526151041Lee Kuan Yew of Singaporean fame had both left and right leaning policies but pretty much ruled like a monarch. He seemed pretty NatSoc but obviously avoided using those terms after the whole WW2 thing kek. Still widely considered one of the greatest leaders in the world though and I tend to agree
>>526151277It didn't work, it failed. So your entire premise is what failed the least. Fucking low IQ retard is what you are.
>>526150086Monarchy is cool until you get a king like king Geoffrey.
>>526151333Kuan's Singapore is an example of the Asian formerly communist parties that dropped the communism part because they realized it didn't work. Singapore's ruling party is called the "People's Action Party", thats clearly a communist name. Western communists don't give up the communism, whites unfortunately have a zealous religious/romantic streak so our communists don't learn. You have to kill them all...
>>526150850Yes, it has. And it worked well until they were defeated by the jewish empire and their golem states.
>>526151228Good thing I'm on neither side then.You're applying collectivist thought right there, just by bringing the commies and libertarians up.The left wing and the right wing, both part of the same dead dodo bird that thinks it's soaring up in the clouds when it can't even fly.The irony of individualism is that its greatest purpose is the benefit of the collective good.A group is only as strong as its weakest member, so you want as many powerful divine individuals as possible, but they can only be that when they don't sacrifice themselves or their individuality "for the common good".Flags are a good example of that. I'm Dutch by blood and culture, thus I'm part of that group, but the group is an idea.It doesn't actually exist.That means that things people did as part of the group 200 years ago, can't be held to my individual account and are things I cannot be held responsible for. I wasn't there to do them.Yet here in this world, people throw around "the Dutch" as if we're a being that have lived forever and can pay today for shit other people did 1000 years ago.It's a false narrative, another framework carefully designed for you to behave in accordance with the wishes of people in power.You're not going to break free from that without changing your perspective on what a collective actually is.
>>526151429> It failedAfter many many centuries under a bunch of new ideologies which it had no immune system built in for yet. Everything fails in time thats the nature of the universe. Yes indeed I'm advocating to go back to what failed the least.
>>526150215This.
>>526151563>Flags are a good example of that. I'm Dutch by blood and culture, thus I'm part of that group, but the group is an idea.>It doesn't actually exist.you are a mentally ill tranny, this is the logic jews use to push mass migration, since everyone can be european if they have a piece of paper that says so
>>526150086Monarchies are better than republics. But they still consistently end up getting taken over by foreigners with no loyalty to their subjects.Sortition based, Athenian style democracy is the only system of government with no inherent incentive to betray its own people.
>>526151673The corrupt people only use this logic to achieve their goal, which is the destruction of society.I argue that, if I were to use your example, nobody can be European because the definition of European is an article of fiction to which we then attribute things.In itself, by itself, the idea is nothing.Because so many people cling on to it, corruption can then manipulate people to behave in specific ways."We as Europeans are tolerant of refugees" for example. Collective is an idea you can define and control through the media. Individuality isn't.You might've noticed that there are more people speaking up against the rapefugees and so many other problems than there are people speaking in favour of it, indicating there's a majority in "the collective" against rapefugees, yet the narrative doesn't reflect that.The only solution for this disconnect, is to destroy the idea of the collective in the first place.And if you mention Jews again, do consider the fact that the core of the Jewish world view is that they are a collective ranking higher than the other collective which is everyone else.Many Jews may argue for liberalism, their culture is the exact opposite. Don't listen to what people say, take a look at what they do.
>>526151853The Athenian system suffers from two flaws1) It corrupts the people as they can vote themselves money from the treasury2) In modern states not every decision can possibly be put to a popular vote of the whole Polis. So it will inevitably like all states have some kind of managerial bureaucracy. Its better than a republic of course but its got some of the same problems. Not that monarchy is perfect either its just that experience of history shows that monarchy is the least bad.
>>526150086Facts!
>>526151955you live in fantasy land, majority of europeans support migrants since they've been taught from young in schools by boomer parents etc, but also because of inborn naivety that they believe they will make our lives better economically, there are collectives and they are not fake, a nation and ethnic group is one of these collectives and it has a strong biological basis, this is why all jews are schizophrenic, all niggers dumb, and all europeans/aryans naive, yes individuals drive the collective, that's how it's been in history, the only solution to secure the biological existence of the people, is to kill every career politician, jew, muslim and nigger in sight, remove women rights and morally and spiritually revitalize the people
>>526152019Neither of the things you said are true. You have fallen for little r republican slander against actual democracies. The idea of a government where everyone votes on everything is a bad faith fabrication. It has never existed.I specified "sortition based, Athenian style" for a reason. The government of Athens and other Greek democracies were selected by lot. This was what everyone understood democracy to mean before modern times. This prevents the creation of a separate, disloyal class of career politicians. And it still produces identifiable, culpable individuals to hold responsible for the mistakes and failures of the government.
absolute leaders are cool when the leader is cool. otherwise they just suck.
>>526152538> Neither of the things you said are true. You have fallen for little r republican slander against actual democracies. The idea of a government where everyone votes on everything is a bad faith fabrication. It has never existed.I agree with you and said I did but I said this leads to the same kind of principle-governmentple agent problem you get in any other. You can select a sort of executive group by lot but the technical stuff will be handled by a more technocratic professional bureaucracy...
>>526150086Fascism didn't fail.
>>526152779Well I'm not sure how you define success and failure then...
>>526152726This is historically and logically more true of monarchies than democracies. Virtually all kings and emperors have surrounded themselves with a cabal of ostensibly technocratic ministers who, in reality, end up being a nepotistic shadow government. Athens didn't develop anything like that. A modern democratic state would have long term government employees, sure. But the idea that a government can only function with a layer of middle men bureaucrats is largely a fiction spun up by those bureaucrats to justify their own existence and power.
>>526150173>>roman republic was kino>freed slaves become full citizens>imigrants come to Rome for free food>politicians increase welfare state to make more and more citizens dependant on it>welfare costs explose>"real" romans hate immigrants>immigrants don't see themselves as romans, despite having roman citizenship>everybody who tries to shrink giant welfare state gets voted out / killedSounds familiar?
>>526153851No argument but the monarch was able to force them to make course corrections when they went off the rails generally (the exception being the French monarchy after Versailles was established, Versailles was something no monarch should ever do). In party dictatorships the dictator tends to be too tied in ideologically with the direction of the government. Athens did go off the rails and quickly despite its small scale and the lack of scale limited the need for a technocratic bureaucracy. But how is a continent spanning direct democracy going to set weight and measure standards and run air traffic control without a class of professional technocrats, obvious it can't. So lets not pretend it was a perfect system. I agree with you that representative republics are even worse.
>>526150086Yes this is good at all but what's more important.What was Sauron tax policy and how the orcs know what are the menu?
>>526153899And this is the inevitable outcome of every republic. It's a built in flaw. The Romans can be forgiven for this mistake since they were the first to make it. At least on a large and infamous scale. But I will never understand why the founders of modern republics looked at that and decided they wanted to do that to their own people.
>>526153899> Governments start wars in order to generate masses of slaves for political elite to work on their latifundias that drive Roman smallholders out of business> Tiberius Gracchus points out how bad this system is for everyone but the oligarchs> They kill himIts comical how fast Republics go corrupt when they don't feel survival based pressure to not be corrupt.
>>526154367> What was Sauron's tax policyA total command economy based on slave labor.
>>526154434The Senate tried to fuck with plebs since the earliest days of Republic, see the Conflict of the Orders.
>>526154623Yeah but at least in the early days of Rome they weren't actively replacing the population and putting them out of business just ruthlessly extorting them by all means short of that. After the second Punic war they became actively treasonous.
>>526154623In fact they even had an inflated real estate cost of living crisis by the time of Gracchus. If Gracchus spoke today it would almost be applicable and he would sound like a more eloquent Trump..."The Wild beasts of Italy have their caves to retire to, but the brave men who spill their blood in her cause have nothing left but air and light. Without houses, without settled habitations, they wander from place to place with their wives and children; and their generals do but mock them when, at the head of their armies, they exhort their men to fight for their sepulchers and the gods of their hearths, for among such numbers perhaps there is not one Roman who has an altar that has belonged to his ancestors or a sepulcher in which their ashes rest. The private soldiers fight and die to advance the wealth and luxury of the great, and they are called masters of the world without having a sod to call their own.Is it not just that what belongs to the people should be shared by the people? Is a man with no capacity for fighting more useful to his country than a soldier? Is a citizen inferior to a slave? Is an alien, or one who owns some of his country’s soil, the best patriot? You have won by war most of your possessions, and hope to acquire the rest of the habitable globe. But now it is but a hazard whether you gain the rest by bravery or whether by your weakness and discords you are robbed of what you have by your foes. Wherefore, in prospect of such acquisitions, you should if need be spontaneously, and of your own free will, yield up these lands to those who will rear children for the service of the State.."
>>526150086Monarchy is by far the most retarded Ruler "selected" by the religion of the regional supernatural beingAbsolute control of over every humanParasite class of aristocrats and religious leadersAbuse of power unavoidableConcentration of wealth destroys economy Innovation stifled, inventors purged who challenge religious dogmaDynasty based on primogeniturePlenty of other reasons...
>>526155541The purity of the midwittery in this post is painful to look upon.
>>526154317>the monarch was able to force them to make course corrections when they went off the rails generallyNot really. Many monarchies became outright puppets of their bureaucracies. That even became the norm in Asia.>Athens did go off the rails and quickly despite its small scale and the lack of scale limited the need for a technocratic bureaucracy.Athens was a large and influential colonial power throughout the Mediterranean. Its democratic government lasted hundreds of years and was only ended by external conquest. And even that took multiple tries including fucking Alexander the Great to finally put it in the ground.>direct democracyYou keep referring to this. Stop. It's not a real thing.>set weight and measure standards and run air traffic controlI don't know why you think the former would be at all difficult. And the expertise of the latter is largely vested in the air traffic controllers and aviators themselves. There would be nothing preventing an assembly from calling forward those professionals to advise on any relevant legislation. You don't need a permanent class of people whose only job is standing between the government and people with real jobs who know what they're doing. Additionally, in a democracy, people with that relevant experience are going to wind up in the assembly themselves sometimes. So issues that are only appreciated by people who experience them firsthand that tend to go unaddressed in every other system will occassionally have advocates within the legislature.
>>526155773> Monarchs in Asia were often prisoners of the mandinarate Yes. I'm talking about how whites should revert to monarchy in my original posts. And I described how Asians have the only successful modern governments generally with post communism because post communism is a natural form of government for Asians ie a Mandarinate. > AthensDid okay but it was really just a city state that held suzeraity over others, didn't have a massive scaling problem> Direct democracy not a thingBut thats the whole appeal of Athens I thought...> Don't think it would be difficultI refer to general industrial standards and its not difficult in a time of technological stagnation but its immesely complicated in times of rapid technological advance, which we hope to reignite again.I'm not denying that Athens is better than any republic system obviously it is, but I think its going to run into terrible problems at scale. Also the pressure to expand the franchise to women and various aliens will never let up. And they only have to fuckup and do it once and the state is doomed with no possibility of correcting.
>>526150086>only thing that sort of works from the modern era are communist parties that quietly drop the communism partNothing in Chinese communism is quiet, other than its death toll. Elites think plutocracy is sustainable and Chinese communism openly encourages it, since no one can rebel against the state if people are constantly arguing amongst each other. It's something they learned from western democracies and it works for ages if maintained too, however it's not a perfect solution because resources are finite. Unfortunately for Chinese they are on the cusp of democratizing completely in the next 5-10 years, they'll have to in order to appease their extremely bloated population, they tried to create a depression scenario to avoid a civil war but it's close at hand.
>>526156444> They tried to create a depression to stop civil unrestThat doesn't make much sense.
>>526156234Even in European monarchies, the ministers were usually quite powerful and would sometimes turn their monarchs into puppets. It wasn't as extreme as in Asia, but it was still there.>Did okay but it was really just a city state that held suzeraity over othersThat's more than most kingdoms were back then.>But thats the whole appeal of Athens I thought..."Direct democracy" is the nonsense fiction about everyone voting on everything. Actual democracy has a legislature. It's just selected by lot from the whole citizenry.>its immesely complicated in times of rapid technological advanceThat applies to all governments. We already know that republics fail miserably at this since all it takes is a monied interest lobbying to sabotage and stagnate the nation for its own interests. And monarchies only escape this same problem if the king is both powerful enough to override his ministers and intelligent enough to make good use of that power. Democracies have nothing inherently holding them back like this. They're not as efficient as the rare giga-genius king. But they provide consistent progress towards objectives that make sense in furthering the interests of the nation.
>>526156598>have problem of people being unhappy with the state>orchestrate another problem to make people scared>solve it temporarily through the state>rinse & repeat as necessaryIt's how you redefine normalcy as a managing party, your people are always going to seek more liberties and greater comforts. So how do you combat it? You do so by manipulating how the populace views those things, people are more reluctant to spend money or have kids in a depression, thus you've successfully curbed two of the major factors in runaway liberalism.
>>526155541>Ruler "selected" by the religion of the regional supernatural beingThere is one true god>Absolute control of over every humanFalse>Parasite class of aristocrats and religious leadersDouble-edged sword>Abuse of power unavoidableTrue for every form of government >Concentration of wealth destroys economyTrue for every form of government >Innovation stifled, inventors purged who challenge religious dogmaHistory disproves this>Dynasty based on primogenitureGood
>>526157292I disagree with the puppet characterization (though this was to a large degree true with the late French monarchy) its just normally day to day monarchs are lazy (which is as it should be). They mostly had a few priorities or would become more active when the state needed to course correct. In China otoh it was really extreme the Emperor was sort of like the chief bureaucrat and literally in most cases worked from early morning to late at night (no weekends and days off only on a few festivals a year) dealing with paperwork given to him by the bureaucracy. Not every Chinese Emperor did this but about 4 out of 5 this was their life.
