No explanation for this from the copelords claiming Iran and Venezuela were flukes because CIA/Mossad etc etc.
>371 in a yearHoly fuck, that's more than one (1) per day.
>>526375399>russia is a soft poor countryyeah, and?they can still hit tho
>>526375546it is indeed, and they blow up so much>>526375590i mean they are willing to expend the lives of their own people in prodigious quantity, which used to be an asset but when you have a really low birthrate...
>small drones that create a small explosion filmed for permoga before being put out and it's business as usual the next day>large anti air batteries are scattered like candy around the entire country and used explicitly for small drones>/k/opers actually believe this amazing, Ukraine is winning bigly btw, that's why the media doesn't even talk about them and fucking Greenland is the next "current thing"
the same could be said for ukraine and western systems. ukraine barely has any power left and russia hits whatever they want.sure, you could say that russia uses more advanced munitions that are harder to hit, but they're still going against the best the west has.
>>526375798oil refineries burn so good though, same as chemical plants and the black sea fleet
>>526375813>he same could be said for ukraine and western systemswhatabout it memeflag? whatabout the whatabout of your whatabout?
>>526375399>371Out of how many launches? That's what the propaganda doesn't tell you. For a country the size of Russia, that's fucking nothing.Meanwhile ukraine with hundreds of billions worth of western help is quite literally freezing to death in kiev.
>>526375399371 strikes feel little considering hundreds of drones attack almost everyday starting from august
>>526375872the point is, sam systems aren't as good as people made them out to be even when used competently, and if the enemy wants to hit something, they usually can. they can just send a bigger wave of drones or more missiles to a salvo.
>>526375399>Oko Gora, a group of Ukrainian "osint analysts" are making wild claims about Ukraine somehow managing to get about one drone through Russian air defenses a day, none of which have done anything to set back the Russian war effort>meanwhile Russia hits Ukraine with hundreds of drones every single day, almost none of which are ever shot down, which have completely destroyed all non-nuclear power infrastructure in Ukraine.
>>526376049What the fuck are you smoking? Only retards think that air defenses are supposed to be a trap card that makes it impossible to use air power against you. That's as dumb as those retards who think that SEAD is a magic spell that makes air defenses go away. War isn't a game of rock paper scissors. Air defenses are extremely valuable and Russian air defenses are frankly better than anything in the west.
They literally send dozens, hundreds of drones daily, so yeah, Russian AD works pretty good. Drones are very small and hard to detect. That makes them hard to intercept, but considering average drone they send has like 5 or 10 kilograms of high explosives, that means that even if you accept this claim from pro-Ukrainian shilling source, it would mean they delivered 1500-3000 kg of high explosives on refineries in Russia. Which is the equivalent of whooping 5-10 conventional aviation bombs. It’s a trade-off. They manage to strike and provide PR lines to their shilling teams, but practical effect of these strikes is close to zero. This amount of ordinance cannot seriously damage major industrial facilities. You literally have example from the other side - Russians at this point dropped 20000+ REAL missiles and bombs on Ukraine, and effects still aren’t catastrophic, even if we’re reaching that point when it comes to power grid. We also have example of the most powerful Western AD network, that of Israel. How many Iranian ballistic missiles did they let through? Judging by more truthful post-action reports, and their behaviour, a lot. Thus Russian AD is very very good. It prevents any serious damage, which is basically the point of AD.
>>526376722>the most powerful Western AD network, that of Israel.I'd say Guam is actually better protected in some ways, but really no western IADS is worth a damn.
>>526376049>sam systems aren't as good as people made them out to beRussian ones especially>>526376377Putin should have thought about that before launching the special operation then yeah?>>526376722imagine reading that
>>526376903>Putin should have thought about that before launching the special operation then yeah?He pretty obviously did. That's why he's winning so hard, because he can think, unlike you.>imagine reading thatI actually did read that post, it was insightful and intelligent, unlike yours.
>>526376854What do they have in Guam? Maybe, but Israel is rather small and has a lot of AD assets. Small area is easier to defend, is my point. Russia is vast. >>526376903Don’t worry, I didn’t write it for you, as you’re an brainrotten imbecile and I got that from the fact you made this thread.
>>526375399If you turn on air defence for low flying shit all the time, you continually have friendly fire because of IFF failures. That shit only works in theory.
>>526375399Is this true though? My brother in Moscow has only mentioned explosions in the oblast twice in the past year.
>>526377244It seems to work in practice too given how many targets they face daily and how few Russian aircraft got shot down by friendly fire. Goal of AD is preventing major damage. It’s not stopping every single missile all the time. That’s just impossible if you’re dealing with a serious opponent. And given how Ukrainians get targeting data from NATO, they are indeed a serious opponent.
>>526377203>What do they have in Guam?Patriots and THAAD, but it's less about what they have in Guam as what they have between Guam and any threat. The US navy does still have fairly substantial air defense capabilities, although they're not keeping up with the evolving threat landscape. Guam is also far enough from the Asian mainland that the types of attacks they have to worry about are more limited. I don't think Guam would actually be able to withstand a major Chinese attack or anything, but it would be expensive and it might take a while to crack. >Israel is rather small and has a lot of AD assets. Small area is easier to defend, is my point. Russia is vast.I agreed with your point, I'm just a massive pedant.>>526377402>Goal of AD is preventing major damageI'd argue that the goal of AD is better described as increasing the cost and complexity of using air power against you. I'm just being a pedant again though, your point is entirely correct in every non-trivial way.
>>526377336It might be true (I saw dozens of hits over past year or so) but even if it’s true effects of this are slim to non-existant.Refineries are HUGE industrial facilities, we’re talking square kilometers.Even if you hit “sensitive parts” regularly, there are a lot of “sensitive parts”. You simply can’t take out massive industrial facilities with so little ordinance. That’s why this PR campaign also relied on another line which exaggerated or inventened gasoline shortages in Russia at one point (before it ran it’s course and it became too dumb even for Ukrainian propaganda standards). All of these facilities are up and running after short interruptions. And they can’t interrupt them often enough to cause a serious effect.
>>526377652You’re absolutely right, those are complementary goals. Another goal would be to diminish the operational envelope of opposing air force. That’s what Ukrainian (late Soviet, mostly) AD did to Russians at the start of the war. They were forced to fly low, use stand-off attacks, worry more about supressing AD and avoiding aircraft losses. This made their air campaign ineffective until they ramped up the production of precision weapons and cheap glide bombs for their fixed-wing assets. So Ukrainian AD worked very very well. That’s why it’s funny to think same AD only two generations newer would work badly. It’s not working badly at all.
>>526377048>He pretty obviously did.Then why is shit blowing up in Russian every day?>>526377203>Don’t worry, I didn’t write it for youGood because I didn't read it.
>>526378028>Another goal would be to diminish the operational envelope of opposing air force.I would consider that to be covered by increasing the complexity of using air power against you. Air defenses increase the complexity of any air operation, potentially to the point where the operation's goals cannot be accomplished.>They were forced to fly low, use stand-off attacks, worry more about supressing AD and avoiding aircraft losses. This made their air campaign ineffective until they ramped up the production of precision weapons and cheap glide bombs for their fixed-wing assets.Ukraine had one of the best air defense networks in the world before the war started, although that mostly comes down to the fact that very few countries have much in the way of air defenses at all. That's why I always find it annoying when I see posts about how Russia can't conduct SEAD. Russia can and has conducted a massive DEAD campaign for the last 3 years.>So Ukrainian AD worked very very well. That’s why it’s funny to think same AD only two generations newer would work badly. It’s not working badly at all.I'm not sure exactly how you're counting generations, but your point is correct.>>526378337Dude, go read a book. Read this book, picrel. Come back when you know enough to ask a decent question.
>>526378621Oh I read books, just not essayposts from some rando on 4chan, sorry.
>>526375399Ukraine is facing mass blackouts while Russia is fine, a good example of the "you should see the other guy"
>371 strikes>371 documented successful "osint available" strikes>75 % hit ratio.>371 documented strikes>Ukranian affiliated "sources" only because "Russian propaganda"Knowing Ukraine's practice of lying, just as they lied about exploding air conditioners and mass killings of civilians, in order to belittle or exaggerate for their own purposes, we have this at the moment...The actual number of strikes is much higher.The impact concentration is much higher.The percentage is much higher.And we know that the average Western normie is an idiot.
>>526378621>I'm not sure exactly how you're counting generationsIn terms of Russian development, Ukraine has late 80’s Soviet gear, Russians continued improving that in 90s and 00’s (in some cases seriously improving), and started fielding entirely new systems in 10’s. So two generations of development.
>>526378701>>526378739it's really funny the seethe this thread has caused
>>526378684>Oh I read booksFiction shit doesn't count. Read a fucking book on this topic, specifically the one I told you to read. You obviously don't know what you're talking about and I spoonfed you a book that could educate you enough that you could come back and not sound like a retard anymore. You're not going to read it though, we both know that.>>526378800I think that counting generations for the entirety of Russian air defenses is not possible, it's a whole ecosystem and it's not like Russia has just come out with two new generations of S-300 since then, they've radically changed their doctrine to incorporate electronic warfare into the air defense mission, and they have integrated entirely new classes of system into their air defense forces. But if you're just saying that two 20 years spans have passed, I guess that is correct.>>526378913>getting called out for being retarded means the other person is seethingYou're projecting.
>>526378913It's not for you.This is for others who will come here.I'm just noting how ridiculous your "analysis" of two more weeks is.At least I understand what's going on in my region of residence, while you can't figure out who you are — left or right, or maybe even a woman. Or VPN cuck.Or some third world shithole welfare relocant, an ICE material.
>>526375399Drones fly very low, so they don't get picked by long-range AA radars, and you have to place close-range AA directly on their route to intercept.And there haven't been any missile strikes at all further than the frontline - so long-range AA works on missiles well.Also 90% of hohol drone attacks hit random civilian buildings, 9% hit refineries, and there have been only couple hits on any facilities.
>>526379078No I never read fiction. And I definitely don't do what you tell me.>>526379269It's my thread pidor. At least your safe from mobilization in Kazakhstan.
>>526379523>Drones fly very low, so they don't get picked by long-range AA radarsso do cruise missiles. sounds like Russia is wide open to them then
>>526379716
>>526375399All you have to know about Russian aerospace capabilities is that the Ukrainian Air Force, stationed right over their border, can still regularly fly ground attack sorties almost four years into this war.
>>526375399The russian army rides donkeys into battle now. Everyone knows its a third world shithole.
>>526379861This is a good point. Russian shills seething in this thread will never answer why though.
>>526379751Nah, cruise missiles have large signature unlike drones and are the easiest to intercept, almost twice easier than ballistic ones.
>>526379963t. I don't do what you tell me
>>526380720no, they're the same size but fly much faster. you just say whatever in vranyo style>>526380768see how I knew you couldn't though?
Does American air defense work? It's getting blown up in Ukraine constantly
>>526380848How do you know fellow American from America?
>>526377336It is literally a drone a day blowing up in some random roof, it is fucking nothing lol, barely noticeable
>>526377402Because Russia has been able to get away not leaving it on full automatic mode 24/7 till recently. The ground skimming cruise missiles/drones are only just coming online.Hypersonics takes decades, but flying double digit meters or even single above ground using 3d satellite imagery, cameras and fast visual control ... that just took swapping some control boards and sensors on old inertial guidance cruise missile designs and some good code.
>>526375399there was a report on NYT that literally said that the Russian systems in Venzuela weren't connected to radars and were basically "offline".
>>526378913You are being corrected like the shit bad attitude dog that you are, niggerfaggot-san, no one is seething
>>526380942post it then sandnigger. and why don't they work in Russia then?
>>526375399>about 1 strike a daythats literally nothing when the drones in question are cheap 100$ trash that even (you) can buy one daily with your paycheck
>>526375399>/k/ope nafo thread of irrelevanceJust here to sneer dont @ me you lost
>>526380989you're a chink lmao>>526381026they're literally blowing up shit in Russian EVERY DAY
>>526380848No it doesn't, Oreshnik passes unnoticed
>>526381066The only thing blown up daily is your mom's asshole being banged in Poland while your brother lays dead on the front
>>526381010>15 pbtid
>>526375813>the best the west hasis not what Ukraine has. we gave them outdated technology, Israel's elimination of most of Iran's previous missile barrage us a more accurate view of what our current level of air defense looks like. add our aircraft to the mix, and the US has achieved total air superiority. we'll see if China has an answer to it at some point I'll bet, but no one has come close yet.
>>526380801Going faster increases the sig.
>>526375399Now show a map of how European and American air defense works in Ukraine
>>526375399
>>526376722> . They manage to strike and provide PR lines to their shilling teams, but practical effect of these strikes is close to zero.Its estimated the strike campaign on refineries alone costs Russia 23 billion per year. They hit specific parts in refineries that are hard to replace. Its not catastrophic for sure, but the drones are imposing WAY more costs on russia than it costs to produce them, by sheer economic effect alone and then you still have to account for the money spent to defend against them. Add in the strikes against the shadow fleet and export terminals and it does do a good amount of damage. Just not anywhere near what a real bombing campaign with aviation bombs and hundreds of planes could do.
>>526381026those are not the kind of drones that make it into Russia, retard
>>526381072>unnoticedNot unnoticed, but dealing with ballistic missiles is hard. They did hypersonic before people started saying hypersonic.
>>526375931>For a country the size of Russia95% of Russia's territory are forests, taiga, grasslands, and wastelands. Essentially east of the Ural mountains civilization ends.
