I played that Charlie UK game from Prevent. You know, the one with Amelia where you get referred to Prevent/Channel if you agree with the goth girl saying chud shit. The game emphasized it was all "voluntary" several times, which made me a bit suspect. Seems like a weird thing to emphasize.Then I did some reading on the Soviet system of crushing dissent at schools during the Brezhnev era, and compared it to the referral system they have in place in the UK for schools, and found it functioned basically the same. It even has the same name, and even repetitively called itself a voluntary referral.Profilaktika (пpoфилaктикa) roughly translates to Prevent. The Brits were too fucking lazy to even use an original term. But just like Prevent in the UK, the Soviets for their kids had a "voluntary" referral system. Referrals were sent from the school, and the KGB would bring them in for a "voluntary" meeting. Except if you declined then another government department would come down and force an involuntary intervention. Often with a psychiatric angle I might add, you'd land a diagnosis of sluggish schizophrenia and they'd pill you into retardation. I went through a few of the websites associated with Prevent UK and they were emphasizing the association between political extremism and psychological deficiency (low self esteem, recent trauma, ect). So it seems to be converging on the psychiatric abuse as well, or at least has the potential to.
In the UK today if you get a bit too spicy at school. The "Designated Safety Lead (DSL)" at a British school has the legal obligation to refer to you Prevent. The DSL was once just an administrator or a teacher that looked for signs of domestic abuse, bullying or other problems, but in 2016 their role got expanded to counter political extremism. Prevent is the organization that the DSL first comes down for a "voluntary" talk, except Prevent remains in communication with the DSL, who can at any time send the signal up to another government department for an involuntary intervention. Channel can also do the same. Either the police, mental health services or child welfare departments are the ones who call for an involuntary intervention. It's the same laws they use on people at risk of suicide or taking kids off their father because of domestic abuse. They lean into the respective government departments for the referral for extremism.The surprising thing to find was that very little of the Eastern bloc system of crushing dissent even admitted it was there. Both prevent UK and Profilaktika give a voluntary face, and put at least two government departments of referrals between them and the guy who orders you hauled away.And because the Lithuanian Soviet Republic's KGB archives are open source, and the Hoover institute hosts them, there's another angle I found out about. The Soviets were often referring to people for Profilaktika for complaining about replacement Russian migrants in Lithuania. A risk factor that could have people referred to Profilaktika is having a nostalgic parent that remembers the pre-soviet days and showing an interest in Lithuanian nationalism. Pretty much the same as how the Brits have the plurality of their Prevent referrals being because of far right chuds complaining about their replacement migrants.
>>527983869>>527983959bump
>>527983869The libshits spent so much time, desperately trying not to *forget history* via NazismThey forgot to not relive Soviet history
picrel, but unironically
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/18-07-23-subjects_of_interest_preventative_policing_under_the_kgb/>In Andropov’s analysis, behind the decline in crimes committed lay an increase in crimes prevented. Andropov went on to show that the KGB was issuing preventive warnings to tens of thousands of people each year– and to claim that these warnings were remarkably effective. Out of the 120,000 that received such a warning between 1967 and 1974...>Did the KGB think profilaktika would change minds? One strand of the literature suggests not. In the 1950s Alex Inkeles and Raymond Bauer interviewed thousands of Soviet emigrants about their experience of Soviet rule. They concluded (Inkeles et al., 1959, 283) that Soviet rulers understood perfectly that many of their citizens held grievances and would have disloyal thoughts. They did not expect inner loyalty. They were satisfied to “assure reliable behavior regardless of how the citizen might feel about the regime.” In the same spirit Harrison (2016, 157–159) conjectures that KGB profilaktika achieved its successes through fear rather than by re-education.>Harrison (2016, 144–145) and Cohn (2018a) note the traces of a medicalized terminology in KGB documentation. The word profilaktika itself is borrowed from medical science. Among the goals of profilaktika set out in a 1964 resolution of the KGB collegium was “protection of Soviet citizens from bourgeois ideology” (Chebrikov et al. (1977, 584); see also Elkner (2009, 152)).
>>527984265>n the same spirit, KGB reports frequently lamented the public expression of “unhealthy” ideas. To give an example, one subject of a preventive warning, “while in a café, made unhealthy remarks” on various topics, including “specifically in relation to persons of Russian nationality.”23 The problem of such cases was not that the subject’s beliefs or norms were incorrect. What mattered was the risk of contagion: the subject let them slip in front of an unprotected audience, on the street, in the classroom, or at work.>What kinds of people did the KGB identify for profilaktika? This is shown in Figure 3 (more details provided in Table C-1 and Table C-2 in Appendix C). Starting from the late 1950s, relative to the population of Soviet Lithuania aged 15 and over, we see that profilaktika subjects were much more male, substantially younger, and substantially less well educated.29 They were nearly all of Lithuanian ethnicity (in other words, with Russians, Poles, and other ethnic minorities largely unrepresented among them). >The strongest concern, one that increased over time, was not for the subject but for the subject’s influence on others. There was a strong trend to medicalization of the subject’s behavior as “unhealthy.”
>>527984439https://www.hoover.org/research/you-have-been-warned>What did the KGB do when it was shielding the Soviet state? In Lithuania, KGB resources were spent on surveillance, information gathering, and analysis. The information gathered was used in many ways, but one important application was profilaktika.>The word profilaktika translates directly as “prophylaxis” or “prevention.” In medical science, prophylaxis means the prevention of disease. Soviet rulers correctly believed that their power was stabilized by mass conformity to a fixed set of “healthy” ideas and behaviors. The KGB saw oppositional ideas and behaviors as a disease that could be spread from person to person through contagion. They developed the technique of preventive warnings to isolate “unhealthy” expressions and prevent them from spreading.>A contagion model of the spread of political ideas and national and cultural identities has some foundation in behavioral science. Human beings copy each other from birth. Examples around us powerfully influence how we dress, whether or not we use recreational drugs, the importance we place on the rule of law, whom we have sex with and why, how many children we have, which stocks we buy, which churches we attend, who gets our votes, and whether or not we attend political rallies. This makes it good sense for repressive regimes both to stay alert for “bad” examples, exemplified by dedicated enemies or traitors, and to watch carefully the wider circles of those who do not intend to be or follow enemies, but whose behavior can be changed by the infectious example of others.
>>527983869you seriously needed to go do "research" into how shit this isyou couldnt just interpret that from the shit smell and vaguely shitty shape?a shitty HR module, calling itself a "game" with main character named "charlie" a la the old "charlie says" videos, where the main character is infantilized and has basically the fucking romance plot of 1984you needed to look into it more
>>527984555>Many cases, like that of Algirdas Aulas, were of a more political character. The KGB was particularly interested in anyone who expressed nostalgia for “bourgeois Lithuania” (i.e., the independent state that had existed from 1918 to 1940), was indiscreet in letters to relatives abroad, or denigrated Soviet leaders or the Soviet way of life.>Young people were a special problem. While some just wanted more fun than could be found in official youth clubs, others developed romantic feelings about political freedom and national identity. The KGB was continually treading on the heels of groups that discussed independent Lithuania, read nationalist poetry, or planned escapades involving leaflets and slogans. These were often students.>>527984083I think the real problem is the romantic fantasy of rebelling against an authoritarian regime is so different in the movies and books that people get the wrong idea. You watch something like Running Man or The Hunger Games and they implicitly imply that authoritarian governments have a firm hand everywhere at all times, and are just in your face with the threats. While that was true for Stalinism and the Red Terror, in actuality the everyday function of authoritarian population control is the Good Cop/Bad Cop model and a heavy amount of gaslighting. The East Germans perfected this technique by sabotaging a person's life in a way that'd cause a mental breakdown. They called it Zersetzung (Decomposition). They didn't give a fuck that you still had no-no thoughts, they just wanted you to be too burdened with other problems to function. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
Interesting thread, seems like prevent backfired spectacularly. Unless?
nice threadbtw the word prophylaxis exists in English>>527984800>accurate information badkill yourself
>>527984800I'm just more surprised that nobody has noticed that they're both using the same name (Prevent), have almost an identical referral structure and "voluntary" process, are both heavy handed on the psychological pathologizing of dissent. People are criticizing it, but I've yet to see one person lay out that it's quite literally a copy of the Eastern Bloc's repression system right down to the name.
>>527985238majority of eCelebs talking about it online are Westerners and Americansthey've never bothered looking into soviet, stasi or kgb history
>>527985053It seems to be following the same trajectory as the Soviet System from Brezhnev onwards in that there's a developing contempt for it. People are all laughing at the propaganda and making jokes about it, which they also did as the Eastern Bloc went into the 1980s.It's a sort of domino theory at play and the contagion model the establishment in both the current UK and the past Soviet Union was focused on the idea of dissidence being like a disease. You see it repetitively in that Prevent UK emphasizes the "influence" of ideas, and doesn't really engage with the actual ideas themselves. They skirt around that question and just emphasize how believing in it makes you a loser, you've been "exploited" by malicious actors, that it can cause societal harm. From what I've read the Soviet preventive conversations followed basically the same model. You were considered to have "delusions of reform", being hoodwinked by malicious foreign actors, corrupting others. but the reasoning is pretty solid because there is the factor of exponential growth. The Revolutions of 1989 came out of nowhere and were a viral process, and were solidly exponential. Solidarity in the early 1980s was borderline a success as well, showed exponential growth, but then the government managed to suppress it with martial law at the last minute. Both Prevent systems know nobody really believes in the government's ideological shit. The focus on the contagion of dissidence is because there's no other choice. If you can't convince people anymore then you have no choice but to nip the outspoken chuds in the bud and ruin their lives. As for the most effective form of dissidence, it's just comedy and laughing at it. Mimic the tone, take it to absurd conclusions. Some of the first signs of rebellion in 1989 appeared in Romanian comedy clubs.
>>527986077or its just a placeholder to see how the proles react to it to figure out what actually to do later
>>527983869Its not a game, its a powerpoint
>>527986221That's exactly what the Soviets were thinking. Brezhnev himself asserted that they had "Fully Developed Socialism" and basically froze the process of historical materialism there. They basically stopped pretending that they were actually advancing to communism, accepted stagnation, and just blew out the state budget on gibs to keep everyone calm. Like an unloved stepfather that buys his wife's sons' love through buying them expensive toys with the credit card. This worked when oil and gas prices were high, but really fucked them over in the 1980s when they crashed. Around 1987 basically every Eastern Bloc country was in conversation with the IMF about managing their debt. And surprisingly enough, the IMF was willing to work with them without any promise of political reform. Kier Starmer himself tested the waters with the "Island of Strangers" speech last year. Immediately it caused an uproar with those further to his left like Jeremy Corbyn and all the ethnic minorities. They're in a very hard spot because there's nothing they can pivot too. They settled on Amelia because our enemies operate with a caricature of us in their mind. The leftist commissar that came up with Amelia that literally thought that because right wingers complain about dyed hair alternative girls giving shitty takes, making the nationalist girl a dyed hair alternative girl would make us hate her. It’s similar to how they always feature a hijabi in every pamphlet propaganda on social welfare or woman’s rights, because they’re always aiming to be catty and goad the conservative christian man who lives rent free in their head.They can't even associate sexual success with believing the government propaganda anymore because they're so unfathomably obsessed with Andrew Tate. They can't do the old move of making the no-no think opinions come from a fat ugly white person because British whites are already rebelling against being the designated punching bag.
>>527983869https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B4524ot5BM
>>527983869Keep my name out of your mouth.
>>527983869starmer is a jewish trotizkyite/jacobin who was radicalized and traveled to the USSR
You have no idea how bad things really are.
>>527985035Zersetzung should likely be Disintegration Decomposition sounds biological, even and not as violent and fragmented
>>527987639I'm just going by the english translation most people use, I don't speak German.They had some clever methods. One method was to find a church or dissident group, and shower rewards and social privileges on one of the leaders while sabotaging the careers of the rest. This would cause infighting and make people turn against those genuinely committed to the cause.
>>527987047it worked for the 70s, but then every soviet normie discovered beneath the bullshit kremlin forces on everyone, was nothing but rot, not the corruption or authoritarianism, but the realization that not even state officials driving their imported mercedes actually got enough from the real economy to steal from to buy it, but they had to smuggle, scrape and steal on top of the soviet system, then the officials stopped buying new mercedes as frequentlywhich is the ontological misstep of the soviets and the EUwhen the normies find out they cant even pretend to have a future, your system no longer has a futurealso im pretty sure amelia might be the result of pic related being in one of their little briefs on online extremism that gave the powerpoint makers
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1770119242247169.mp4https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1770118808213280.mp4Amelia webmsBonus fuck Mr Stancil webmhttps://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1770117280926970.mp4
>>527988476If you haven't read USSR the corrupt society by Simmis I can recommend it
Capped. Saved.Will be spammed.
>>527988696I was dubious but found this>Since the mid-1950s, the Soviet Committee for State Security (KGB) developed the concept of profilaktika, aimed to ideologically discipline the masses and prevent them from aligning with the “malicious West” through “gentle,” supposedly nonantagonizing modes of coercion. Based on newly discovered Soviet primary sources, this article describes the intellectual and organizational efforts of the KGB Moscow headquarters to breathe life into this society-designing tool, as well as the actual inability to implement it successfully, demonstrated by the organization’s field structures. It is argued that, faced with growing popular unrest triggered by the deepening crisis of the entire Soviet system, these structures imitated the fruitful use of profilaktika’s “soft” methods, in fact widely practicing, without reporting, classic brutal suppression. The article discusses the possible relevance of this phenomenon in Putin’s Russia and other nondemocratic countries and suggests its further academic investigation.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2023.2280430
Badabudonk as they say when bomping. Badabudonk indeed. (To bump use an image & a link for extra bump welly, it’s how it works). I have to dash off for cream cakes before the supermarket shuts. In Ingsoc Britain will i make it all the way there and back agsin or will i fall foul of …THE OBI.>nobody expects The BOTTOM INSPECTORS>for the glory of the bottom reich! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qgHbXFTa8
This article I found (haven't read it yet)
>>527988931>>527989198>>527985238If you want people in public to make this comparison, you could just send this to ecelebs
>>527983869psychiatry is dystopian,anything can be labeled anything
>>527986077>As for the most effective form of dissidence, it's just comedy and laughing at itThis is a dangerously overlooked strategy.People (and ideas) can only have authority over you if you take them seriously.
>>527989588https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/manage/publications/wp664.2023.pdfHere's the paper on the Lithuanian Soviet Republic I quoted above. "Our paper contributes to the existing research on preventive repression by Ritter and Conrad (2016) and Tertytchnaya (Forthcoming), who study the repression of anti-regimecollective action by measures such as curfews, prohibitions on assembly, and protest permitdenials. These represent strategies of prevention that rely on raising the sense of threatfaced by regime opponents.6 In our context, however, there are several differences: therepressive measures that we study are entirely secret, individually targeted, do not rely oncreating new crimes, and aim to suppress behaviors that, while not necessarily criminalin themselves, are thought to be precursors of more serious political crime. "(excuse the formatting, copying from a PDF is a bitch)"In the 1970s, the preoccupations of the 1950s have stepped down, their place taken bythe influences of the foreign world and of ideological contagion. This is illustrated by thechange in the average topic probabilities in the 1970s compared to the 1950s (Figure D-5 inAppendix D). The highest average probability in Figure D-5 (although with considerablevariation, as we can see in Figure 9) is that a report will be assigned to “harmful values,”which could have originated either at home or abroad. This is closely followed by “foreigngoods” and “foreign contacts.”3""Interestingly, although harmful values specifically are not much discussed in the 1950s(the highest document-probability for this topic is about 25 percent), it is present inmany documents in the 1970s. Our quantitative results support the existing qualitativeevidence about the declining proportion of “known risks” among profilaktika subjects,with “unknown risks” rising in the 1970s (Harrison, 2016, 33–35)"
>>527985035>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung>the Stasi killed a dissident with a DEW in the 90s
>>527991061>In 2012, The Times of Israel reported that US intelligence officials were increasingly concerned about forms of harassment which involved CIA officers' apartments in Israel being broken into, and objects interfered with and rearranged. It reported in one case, and considered in conjunction with other incidents, that 'a CIA officer in Israel came home to find the food in the refrigerator had been rearranged. In all the cases, the US government believes Israel’s security services were responsibleThe jews fear the well stacked fridge.
>>527984265>profilaktika achieved its successes through fear rather than by re-education.Although this may also be true of Prevent, I don't believe that's its intention. >Soviet rulers understood perfectly that many of their citizens held grievances and would have disloyal thoughts.Our regime is more sinister, they believe that if citizens don't think acceptable thoughts, then there must be something wrong with the citizen and that non-compliant thoughts can be trained out of the citizen.
>>527991926>Although this may also be true of Prevent, I don't believe that's its intention.In the game they name drop several real right wing talking points, provide zero counter arguments, as if not even disagreeing, but say it will lead to negative consequences.
>>527991926my theory is that every regime eventually falls for their own propagandaas in it is impossible to spread the message properly without believing it to some extend
>>527983869>oh no anon, we're not "reporting" you to the wrongthink bureau, we're "referring" you to the right-think board! It's completely different and not at all the same thing with different names like how we paper over all the other evil shit we do, why would you think so?
>>527992420
>>527992095>as in it is impossible to spread the message properly without believing it to some extentOne of the Polish head central planners in the 1980s, that parroted communist talking points his entire career, was discreetly reading Mises and Hayek during that time. Immediately after Solidarity's election, he and many of the other Polish Communist elites joined the new liberal order in implementing privatization. There's definitely true believers but they're typically not liked in the system either, because they bleat too hard when there's needed reform or a pivot to another strategy. These sorts of authoritarian systems like cynical types as they're the ones that are self aware enough to keep the charade going. Actual committed communists were the ones purged after the Stalin years in favor of corrupt degenerates that just wanted to take bribes and relax in the sauna. Cult of personalities and actual ideological fanaticism caused damaging excesses like the Cultural Revolution in China. The entire Chinese government was doing damage control all through the 1980s to contain the fallout from the Cultural Revolution, peasants back then were openly beating government officials to death in the countryside and hanging their bodies from the rafters.To bring the analogy to the UK and other western countries. The British government doesn't want people in power who genuinely believe in the intersectional framework fanatically because they're liable to run off in directions the government doesn't want. The excess fanaticism during 2020 BLM really made them see the risk of going too hard in stoking the fires of ideology. It's why since then you see this gay and patronizing propaganda about risk, and there's no longer anything aspirational. They don't even pretend we're heading towards some multiracial kumbaya utopia anymore.
>>527983869>>527983959Damn another good threat AND good posts. Today is a good day.
>>527983869Based and red pilled. Great find, anon
>>527992087>provide zero counter argumentsI don't know, but perhaps (to them) the talking points are so obviously wrong that they don't need to provide counterarguments.I read a conversation between an opponent of brexit and a Hillary supporter. They couldn't grasp the idea that some people disagreed with them, it had to be that the people who disagreed were damaged in some way, and they were lamenting that they hadn't managed to fix those people in time.>We called them racist and said that they were idiots!They didn't try to argue the pros and cons, it was blindingly obvious to them that people who disagreed were just wrong, and for reasons beyond their comprehension, those people didn't see the error of their ways despite the name-calling.
>>527994234You fool, even Prevent itself doesn't publicly disparage these talking points but rather it calls out attention toward radicalization which it is tasked to tackle, although it is exceedingly incompetent in doing so.
>>527993730>mymylol
>>527994234Some people just crave consensus and can't handle people not agreeing. A significant portion of politics is driven by highly anxious people getting fearful at disagreements, and they cling to the more authoritative side instinctively. It's what makes the pivot to a new system so seamless, because they leapfrog over. There's Babushka's in every eastern bloc country putting flowers on Ceausescu's grave or still prattling on about how things used to be better. People humor them now because they're harmless old ladies and they're just waiting for them to die off. And these old ladies for their part keep their nostalgia somewhat quiet because they know the consensus is in the other direction now. But these were some of the most vicious and nasty people back in the day. Go back just a few years and disagreeing with that person would have the Securitate called on you. I watched a documentary on communism in Romania and the dissidents who had their careers destroyed gave interviews. Some emphasized that the true danger wasn't the elites but the wives of the elites, they would fuck you up harder if you got on their wrong side. A lot of the fearmongering about the danger of things isn't for the chud going to the protest, it's for the highly anxious people that seek consensus. And for better or worse true power lies on that side, they get to yell and scream and you can't. Pray at an abortion clinic and you'll get arrested, but they get to disparage christians all the time. Yelling and expressions of anger are actually signals of social power. The fact that they get to yell and scream their politics, aggressively riot, be dogmatic and insanely fanatic, signals that they're the power. The fact we have to navigate around a tone policed conversation and can't say a few spicy works signals we're the weaker side. Consensus seeking people of course will try to suppress the weaker side.
>>527995214>The fact that they get to yell and scream their politics, aggressively riot, be dogmatic and insanely fanatic, signals that they're the power. The fact we have to navigate around a tone policed conversation and can't say a few spicy works signals we're the weaker side.
