This is a replay of Classical Civilization and we're at the part where Rome fights an internecine civil war before the peace of imperial monarchy sets in. We live in what are probably some of history's most interesting -- long-term influential -- times. These times may determine if the USA is verging on collapse or, like Rome, just transitioning into a proper empire while teetering and taking huge risks.If the latter turns out to be true, then the USA, already 250 years old, may rule as global empire for another 250 or so years, as the Roman Empire endured about as long as its previous Republic: roughly 500 years for Republic and then for Empire.I guess, if this turns out to be the case, modern empires last about half as long as the ancient ones.Rome never innovated on Greek ideas, just implemented them more deeply than the Greeks had time to do, and even when Platonism came back in a new way (Neoplatonism established by Plotinus, which became the metaphysics on which Christianity is built), it was the Greeks the empire who came up with these ideas, or new takes on older ideas.The Europeans are like the Greeks to the American Romans. They had a series of empires to inaugurate the modern world where the West rules the world, and then America took over and will lead the West, and the world, until the West's end as a civilization, or rather until the modern incarnation of the Western (European) Civilization, which stretches back to the emergence of Greece from the post-Bronze Age Dark Age, went into remission during the Dark Age after Rome, and then began to rise again ca. AD 1000 with the High Medieval Revival and the Medieval Renaissance. The USA, with its European ally-vassals, will rule the planet until the late 2200s, with the mid 2100s being a breaking point, if this repeats the Roman experience, where halfway through the Empire a sharp transition occurred from Principate (preserving Republican norms and forms) to Dominate (the State is your master).
>>529464368So from the mid 2100s until Western dissolution (again) in the later 2200s, the Western Empire, headed by the US, will be pretty chaotic and unstable, with quality of life being in the gutter for most people, but until then, things should be relatively prosperous and nice, except for the slave class that has to do the grunt work of civilization. A new religion will be born around this time, and it will grow slowly, then explode into public consciousness during that crisis of the mid 2100s. In it will incubate the West's next incarnation, with its new metaphysics and worldview, for when the West (Europe, and lands held by peoples of European persuasion) reemerges from its discombobulation that will begin in the late 2200s, if the timeline is like the Classical one but things happen at twice the speed as in those days.
>>529464368This. Also, just like how the capital of Rome moved from Rome to Constantinople when Rome became irrelevant as a center of power, the capital of America will move to the real current center of power, Tel Aviv.
>--ChatGPT slide thread
>>529464923If Europe is the Greece to America's Rome, then after the crisis of the mid 2100s, the capital of the West will move back to Europe, and for a time there will be two capitals in an empire deliberately split for purposes of administration: one capital in America, one in Europe.
>>529465074You don't like the idea of America winning so hard?I find it irritating too, mainly because America's values and thinking are so warped and devoid of substance, but I do think America is far from collapsing and it'll be a long time before a stronger country comes along, most likely one weaker than America at its peak, but stronger than the declining America of the future.
>>529465522I know what you mean. We truly lack substance/values that I think comes from no concept of real sacrifice/tragedy. We may still lead the western world for a long time, but it comes at a cost of hollowing out society.
>>529465697Most Americans live in fantasyland. It's due to so much safety and easy living for so long, which have divorced America from basic realities of life like that suffering is normal and happiness is an exceptional treat. American culture lacks depth.
>>529466082Well assuming you aren't using chatgpt, you seem somewhat well educated. Have a nice night anon.
>>529464368Empires suck for common population. When rome transitioned to empire it became oligarhic shithole
>>529464368I think my country is screwed too. Just not now that is.
>>529464697Oswald Spengler knew that America's doomed to fall just like the Saxons of England and Germany before it because the future belongs to Russia and China! But Hitler was a retard and Churchill ended up being just as much of a loser because of the fall of his own empire! India's percentage in it was much bigger compared to what Berlin and Poland were for Nazis
>>529464368>RomefagNo. What is happening is that the West mismanaged itself for 50 years, pursuing ideological self-gratification, Ashkenazi business/science wank and abstract wealth, while Asia conducted a leveraged buyout of the physical world, mastering the forces of production.Now the military, trade and increasingly cultural balance is shifting. US has realized Asia is the deep end of the pool and is now playing in the shallow end, finding glory for itself in small and stupid campaigns that will not affect its power in serious ways.
>>529464368The US doesn't need to collapse. It need to be neutered. Daddy Xi will get the job done, you'll see.
>>529464368The US already transitioned from Republic to Empire under Theodore Roosevelt. It is in fact now a collapsing empire.
>>529464368>The US is collapsing. It is transitioning from global hegemon to regional powerFtfy. If America survives the next 100 years, it'll be in a similar position to what Britain is now. Your leaders should be making as many friends as possible, but instead they're pissing everyone off.
>>529464368>americanCope harder
>>529466605Rome was an oligarchic shithole from the end of the Second Punic War around 200 BC. Slaves flooded the labor market, the latifundia system (huge slave plantations, producing low cost food) ruined many common Roman farmers (often the soldiers too, away at war as their farms went bust), who became the earliest incarnation of the Roman Mob as they left their bankrupt farms and headed to the slums of Rome looking for work. I do wonder if Americans, and Westerners in general, will see any benefits from this recent string of imperial victories (Syria, Venezuela, Iran), or if all the benefits will just go to the top of society while regular people get screwed.
>>529464368Comparisons to Rome are overblown. First, Rome as a civilization didn't fall until 1492 when Byzantium fell. If comparison must be used, we've already been an empire since the constitution, colonial times were the Republican period
>>529469042>I do wonder if Americans, and Westerners in general, will see any benefits from this recent string of imperial victories (Syria, Venezuela, Iran), or if all the benefits will just go to the top of society while regular people get screwed.What do you think LMFAO
>>529467154>Oswald Spengler knew that America's doomed to fall just like the Saxons of England and Germany before it because the future belongs to Russia and China! But Hitler was a retard and Churchill ended up being just as much of a loser because of the fall of his own empire! India's percentage in it was much bigger compared to what Berlin and Poland were for NazisYes, I expect the 2300s and onward to be Russia's age, for the remainder of this millennium and into the next one.In the meantime, Russia needs to weather the Western juggernaut and just survive, so it doesn't end up a future high civilization killed off in its youth.https://www.kerrybolton.com/oswald-spengler-and-russias-world-mission/
>>529464368The United States is alread an empire. We kill whole what and no one can stop us. Our ships and planes travel the entire globe and no one can stop us. When a western nation wants help they don’t contact Russia or China, they call up the USA. If wanted to claim ever inch of land as ours there’s not a single thing any country could do about it.
>>529468337>The US already transitioned from Republic to Empire under Theodore Roosevelt. It is in fact now a collapsing empire.So Teddy Roosevelt was the first emperor of America?Nah, Trump is our Julius Caesar and who comes after him may be our first imperial monarch/de facto king. The "empire" created by TR was just a prelude, or not even enough to be that. The real empire began growing after the World Wars, like Rome after the Punic Wars, and will culminate in a transition to imperial dictatorship that ends the Republic.
>>529469056>Comparisons to Rome are overblown. First, Rome as a civilization didn't fall until 1492 when Byzantium fell. If comparison must be used, we've already been an empire since the constitution, colonial times were the Republican periodRome in the West collapsed in the mid to late 400s. What lingered on in the East wasn't central to Western history. And Byzantium lost its big empire with the Islamic conquests, which reduced Byzantium to an Anatolian state.
>>529464368But the US is controlled by Israel
>>529469411Politically the USA has much more in common with Venice than Rome in the sense that the merchant class are the actual rulers. We could see something like the Doge, a figurehead leader elected for life as it becomes increasingly apparent that 4 year election cycles are too much chaos in the modern age.
>>529469259And Rome was also an empire well before it was an empire. The terminology is tricky because the word for "empire" is from the Roman language and just meant rule by an imperator, and since Rome has meant rule by a monarch who rules not just his own kingdom but other countries too. So Rome was an empire in the sense of ruling other countries from the end of the Second Punic War, but not an empire in the sense of rulership by an emperor until Caesar and Augustus.
>>529469185Russia's definitely not ending up like the Magian civilization's Mark Antony and Napoleon's mistake will only be repeated by those who're going to be remembered as their own nation's equivalents for Germany's Hitler
>>529469527Although the Western Roman Empire fell politically in the mid-400s, Roman institutions, law, and culture persisted under successor kingdoms. Byzantium remained a major Mediterranean power for centuries, shaping Western law, religion, and politics, and was far more than a reduced Anatolian state.
Wrong. The US empire is dying and being replaced by a jewish empire where the US plays the role of a colony.
>>529469917Okay, Byzantium was more than an Anatolian state, and had a significant effect on Western development, but it still wasn't much of an "empire," let alone really like the successor or remainder of the Roman Empire, after the Islamic conquests confined it to Anatolia. The West after Rome was the confluence of three major cultural interactions: Roman civilization or its remnants like in the Church, the Germanic peoples, and Christianity from the Levant. Byzantium helped shape the medieval and modern West, but was still on the periphery and not really Western, just a significant influence. The Western tribes and then kingdoms were aware of and often respected and learned from the Byzantine culture and state, but were mostly doing their own things in their own region (Western Europe, or Central to Western Europe from north to south in Europe), in producing the civilization that ended up becoming the Modern West around the time of the Renaissance, though the High Medieval Period (circa 1000 to 1300) it when it really started taking shape and becoming recognizably its own new thing and reviving its intellectual tradition in the Medieval Renaissance of the 1100s to 1300s, which some scholars contend was at least as important as the Italian Renaissance led by Florence, and which placed a much stronger emphasis on logic and science (the "hard" topics) than the Italian Renaissance did, which was artistically focused. So the hardheaded scientific, logically precise approach to knowledge that was the precondition of modern science, born in the West, is owed to the Medieval Renaissance and the Schoolmen/Scholastics, who were hardcore logic choppers and put a huge emphasis on rigor in their thought and reasoning, logical rigor being essential to modern natural (and always to formal) science, with modern science being like empirical observation of the natural world + logical rigor in categorizing and controlling for the internal differences in its phenomena +
>>529464368Way too early. The closest parallel is that Trump = Sulla. The first president to ever try as hard to usurp the republic.
>>529474965(and this is key) "mathematicization," which is a form of rigor of course -- precision to the point of exact quantification -- as the highest standard for logical reasoning. Once the logical rigor of the Medieval Renaissance was married with modern maths by the likes of Descartes and Galileo and Kepler and, ultimately, Newton (after him, there was no going back, and no one would ever again doubt the importance of mathematics to natural science), and indeed the High Medieval Renaissance saw a notable turn to empiricism on the basis that God's creation (the world) will reveal to us God's purpose and God's mind to some small but never insignificant degree (nothing of God can be insignificant to Medieval Man) -- once this was all put together, the recipe for modern science, which is the foundation of modern technology, was all in place, and the West was set to rise and dominate unlike any civilization before it, even the Classical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_of_the_12th_centuryThere are several phenomena discussed as "Medieval Renaissances," like the revival of learning (tenuous and not long-lasting) under the Carolingians, but which fell apart after Charlemagne when his empire was split up (into what became both France and Germany/Holy Roman Empire/First Reich in the 900s -- brothers of the same father, literally since both these kingdoms descended from sons of Charlemagne who got portions of his empire), as well as the Ottonian Renaissance of the 900s in the newly established Holy Roman Empire/Germany/First Reich, again short-lived; but the Renaissance of the 12th Century is the big one, the one where Europe was, in a sustained manner, back on track to intellectual breakthroughs that would continue on to today in its many forms over the centuries, and would go on to mix with the humanism of the Italian Renaissance into a full package of human existence explained scientifically and treated aesthetically and morally:
>>529464368Rome lasted 800 hears of stable prosperity and growth as a republic and went to shit INSTANTLY with Nero and started collapsing within a century as an empire
>>529475837a complete, distinctly Modern Western, worldview.>>529475606Yeah, I can be Trump being a Sulla (not a Gaius Marius for sure), and I am not wedded to he idea he's our Julius. I just think this is our general transitional era into formal empire, ruled by an emperor when it's all worked out, and like with the Roman transition, it often looks like America is collapsing but really it's undergoing metamorphosis into a new form -- with risk of collapse as it engages in high-stakes endeavors in its big push to established recognized, unchallenged primacy among nations and countries.
>>529476028Totally falseCaligula and Nero were ancient celebrities, nothing more, famous for their (supposed) "crazy" antics (but the Senate liked to libel emperors, so who knows the true story). During the Pax Romana, even during the reign of unstable imperial administrations like those of Caligula and Nero, the Mediterranean was full of ships and for ordinary people, life was normal, except for the intriguing tales coming out of the imperial palace and Senate. The Roman administration established by Augustus was strong enough to run the empire just fine even with some loopiness going on at the top.
>>529464368Stop comparing yourself to rome, you’re not, stop pretending you have any influence in your country, you don’t, you’re zogslaves like the rest of us, and soon you’ll be brown too.And trump ain’t no ceasar, he’s doing all he’s doing because bibi has tapes of him sucking bubba’s dick.
>>529476340The Roman Empire of the second century was being led by as many Balkan emperors as Italian ones, as the old Roman stock, mainly Italians, remained important but were joined by many other ethnic Romans who believed, strongly, in Rome even as Rome lost significance in the eyes of many of the original stock over time. And I am not 100% sure America is the new Rome, but I think there are strong parallels and signs that it may be. And being a "zogslave" is not incompatible with being the global hegemon longterm if Jewish and White upper classes of the empire merge (as they have through intermarriage, starting in Britain in the 1800s; Lord Carnarvon, funder of Howard Carter's discovery of King Tut's tomb, had a Jewish wife since the late 1800s, for example) and rule jointly as a Judeo-WASP ruling American class in the Late Republic and in the Empire.
>>529475837https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_thesisThe "Continuity Thesis" holds that the Italian Renaissance wasn't a sudden break with the medieval world and sudden revival of classical learning, but a continuation of the already happening Medieval Renaissance among the Scholastics and others.
