Where is Trump's promise to build 10 new Federal freedom cities??? They would be Federal cities just like Washington D.C and could be slowly liquidated and sold off to the States that they reside in. This will create jobs and create new cheap centres of employment and housing for people.Many Democrats and Liberals like myself would love to work and support Trump on these issues. This will truly unite Americans.
>>529970615>I have to manage your money for you because you are too irresponsible for that.Fuck off Keynes! Get a job you lazy kike faggot!
>>529970795>>I have to manage your money for you because you are too irresponsible for that.How on earth does stimulating the economy to increase productivity and thwart a recession have to do with managing other peoples' money or being responsible.
>>529970999You literally cant stimulate the economy to increase productivity. Money printing is an accounting trick. Politicians have no real responsibility so statistically they can only create harm in the economy.I say something what your mind cannot grasp: You can kill an economy by pouring infinite money on it. It would make everyone poor as fuck.
>>529970999>>529971495The best you can do is lowering taxes and regulations and leave people alone.
>>529971495>You literally cant stimulate the economy to increase productivity. Money printing is an accounting trick. If it incentives more productivity than it does. If you have a depressionary deflationary economy with 30% unemployment, and you take action to get that down to 8%, you have more people working.>Politicians have no real responsibility so statistically they can only create harm in the econoThat is a problem>ou can kill an economy by pouring infinite money on it. It would make everyone poor as fuck.That's why it's not unlimited money.
>>529970999Every dollar of stimulus is theft from currency earners and holders, which is most poor people.
>>529971821So how do you solve a deflationary spiral without currency issuance?
>>529971941The US economy functioned fine under deflation for many years. Some of the greatest periods of real growth in our nation's history.Stimulus isn't "necessary to fix the economy," it's a grift for financial institutions to enrich their tribe.
>>529971821>>529971656Deflation is 3% per yearThe needed real interest rate to spur investments is is 1%Nominal interest rates are floored at 0%, meaning real interest rates are floored at 3%. (nominal interest - inflation).How do you solve that? There's no self corrective mechanism.
>>529972139It can until you fall into a deflationary spiral where the needed interest rate that would kickstart the economy and bring it back into equilibrium is lower than the rate of deflation. It becomes a vicious feedback loop.
>>529971716I know all the keynesian literature. I know all the arguments. Its cargo cult nonsense. Money is not value. Its accounting. You dont inject anything into the economy. You just steal and redistribute.
>>529972147>Deflation is 3% per yearWhere the hell are you getting your information from?https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/inflation-cpi
>>529972321It was a hypothetical example to demonstrate an economy that requires a Keynesian fiscal and monetary boost.
>>529972247I've read Mises, Hayek, and Menger.
>>529972382So what's your proposed policy for the real world?
>>529972431Then you didnt understand them.
>>529972505Governments should only run deficits or invest when they can accurately show that by doing they will produce more value than the cost of borrowing. Naturally, governments will invest in projects during recessions, when the price T-bonds rises to near par, and the private sector's profit chasing mechanism doesn't direct private sector development. In 2008, it would have made no sense for a firm to invest in a new export terminal, demand is falling. It would still make sense for the government in that time to use cheap capital and abundance of T-bond demand to build long term infrastructure.
>>529972715You don't understand Keynes or Friedman.
>>529972147Artificially spurring investment is less important than maintaining employee bargaining power. Inflation allows employers to effectively lower wages without lifting a finger. They even claim this as a feature of inflation.The oversized financial sector in the US has not had a corresponding benefit to real productivity. Our economy is increasingly fake and speculative.
>>529972972>The oversized financial sector in the US has not had a corresponding benefit to real productivity. Our economy is increasingly fake and speculative.That's only true when financial companies are artificially propped up with artificially low interest rates. In a free market, a financial service firms only services when it produces more value for customers than its input costs.
>>529973224This Keynesian redistribution is inherently alien to a free market. Do you perhaps believe that markets are Pareto efficient? If so, how do you square that with needing an intervention to reach the "optimal" result? Does stimulating current production of goods (short run aggregate supply) come at no cost, or does it come at the cost of current investment?
>>529973635>This Keynesian redistribution is inherently alien to a free market. Do you perhaps believe that markets are Pareto efficient? If so, how do you square that with needing an intervention to reach the "optimal" result? Does stimulating current production of goods (short run aggregate supply) come at no cost, or does it come at the cost of current investment?That's why Keynesian intervention is only done in very specific instances. It's not meant to be perpetual deficits and constant intervention.
>>529973995It always is perpetual. Politicians support Keynesianism because they see it as a justification to spend, and they love spending for myriad reasons. Not least of which being that it enables corruption.Revisiting what I said...>Does stimulating current production of goods (short run aggregate supply) come at no cost, or does it come at the cost of current investment?To put this a different way: What is the opportunity cost to ramping up short run production from firms' perspective?
>>529974475>What is the opportunity cost to ramping up short run production from firms' perspective?If you're in a depression and capital is sitting idle then the cost is really only the future interest payments on the debt (which would be very low given the fact that interest rates for government securities can approach 0 in a depression).
>>529975058Let me rephrase again. You're a firm that's decided to lower its output because you don't think there's demand right now. What are you doing with your money instead of paying wages to workers? Are you not investing in whatever secure return you can with it?
>>529975861>Are you not investing in whatever secure return you can with it?That might be cash if you're in a deflationary environment, the frugal thing to do is hoard cash.
>>529975966Okay so you're saving money. What does Saving equal?
>>529976455Investment in theory, not in practice.
>>529970615idk... why not, just kick the jews out?
>>529977860Well I think there might just be a connection in practice. Again, the US economy grew for many years under conditions of deflation.
>>529977984An economy can grow under deflation, never said it can't. The problem is it's prone to a deflationary spiral and liquidity trap, which then needs a keynesian boost to escape.
>>529979603Or supply and demand equilibrate naturally.
>>529979796>Deflation is 3%>Everyone is hoarding cash>Risk premium on debt is 2%How can you reach an equilibrium there. Lenders will demand at the VERY LEAST a 2% interest rate on debt... which is a 5% real interest rate.Borrowers will not borrow at 5% real interest rate when returns on investments are less than 1% (or negative).There's a wedge between the two.
>>529980212It's true that there will be a wedge. That doesn't mean that real aggregate supply and demand can't equilibrate, it just means low-value investments don't occur, financial sector is smaller, employees end up with higher wages. Maybe with the smaller financial sector we end up with fewer jewish wars.
>>529981085How would employees end up with higher wages?In fact, the Austrian boys argue the opposite, they say in times like this the way the economy theoretically reaches equilibrium is that wages fall faster than prices, and they fall until profit returns which incentivizes new investment in new business.The problem is, holding cash can always guarantee you a nominal return of 0%. In a deflationary environment, many business ventures have a positive real return but a negative nominal return. It makes no sense to invest and expand instead of hoarding cash.
>>529981574>How would employees end up with higher wages?Increased bargaining power relative to employers. Keeping the same nominal wage means you're getting a raise by default.Oh and I forgot to mention the biggest benefit: No arbitrary theft of value from productive citizens to jews through currency creation.
>>529982162Companies begin firing workers in this situation since they can't keep up with the same nominal wage when prices keep dropping. This is why depressions always have such high unemployment.
>>529982254You do this thing where you always assume other conditions so you don't have to think too hard. When we talk about deflation you always assume it's a depression and when we talk about recession you always assume there's deflation.
>>529982615I was talking about a depressionary situation.If we're talking about deflation because productivity is expanding so rapidly that we can lower average output costs then that's a good thing.
>>529982786>I was talking about a depressionary situation.Why? We were talking just moments ago about how deflation can exist alongside a growing economy. I was explaining the benefits of deflation in general, not during specifically a period of recession.
>>529970615CAPITALISM IS THE BEST
>>529982254By this metric the US has been in a depression with deflationary events in real world value since the late 60s. The line may have gone up one inflation as a measure of dollars, but all labor has been in deflationary freefall for longer than almost everyone here has been alive As suck you are not looking at a currency fix. But a bankruptcy. You can have infinite dollars and not be able to purchase anything, Zimbabwe showed that.Thus the normal financial concepts you discussed are not the correct way to fix the issues. By nature those fixes are only available in a fictional accounting system, not a real market.
>>529970615COMMUNISM IS THE WORST
>>529983068That's not where the problem occurs.
>>529984574>ut all labor has been in deflationary freefall for longer than almost everyone here has been aliveThis is only true regarding certain goods.
post-1970s Financialization of the global economy and investment bank finance, made any notion of Keynesian analyses or policies totally permanently obsoleteOP is a Brainlet
