Joseph Campbell once wrote a book about how all mythic tales have commonalities that speak to our shared humanity. He consolidated these myths into The Hero's Journey, a particular set of events and engagements through which an individual steps up from being one of the masses to become a savior of his people against adversity in whatever form that takes. This isn't an unusual story to be universalized, as we can recognize no matter the situation, folk, or ethos there'll be always an opportunity for someone to recognize a better way to do things and, through bravery and heroism, a way to realize that. In less psychological terms, it's a baseline aspect of humanity that we CAN improve things.If there are common myths, it also follows that there are uncommon myths. Cultural stories that are products of that culture alone, and stand as a representative mystery as to why the story never appears anywhere else. Did you know that there's no other culture that has a myth about the golem, or anything like the golem? It seems to be an intrinsically Jewish story. Why do you think the Jewish culture would produce this standalone story of an individual creating a servant and then having that servant get sick of his shit and turn on him? Isn't that interesting that there's no cultural corollary to this myth anywhere else in the world?Just food for though
>>530336488The hero is ultimately for yourself. You save yourself.The commonalities may sometimes speak to a major historical event in the past, but the archetypes speak more to how the mind works than how any one person works.>Cultural stories that are products of that culture alone, and stand as a representative mystery as to why the story never appears anywhere else. I would start by assuming that group of people has a different psychology.
The way I see it, this could mean one of two things (or potentially both, idk).It could be the case that the Jews are inclined to enslaving via trickery (masterful knowledge and influence over others) and that this habit is ultimately one that they need cultural reinforcements to inhibit. Within their own cultures, everyone's heard the myth of the golem, so when one of their own starts getting a little too fancy there are others who can cite mythic orthodoxy in order to limit that individual's grasp.The other, less forgiving, interpretation is that Jews really have no clue in how to manage the degree to which they divest power from themselves to their subordinates, to the point that they need a myth to reign them in and keep them reminded that they need to hold onto power lest it be taken away from them. This interpretation is more a warning about other groups recognizing how malfeasant their practices are and turning against them once they've been involved with the Jews for, say, 200 years.
>>530336970>The hero is ultimately for yourself. You save yourselfYou're not wrong, but as these things are fractal, and myths are products of cultures, I figured I'd set my sights on the macro less than the micro. And yes, at the VERY least this is indicative of a different psychology. Generally this is what people refer to when they say someone comes from a different culture, but usually such claims are never qualified in either myth or behavior, simply food
>>530336488>Did you know that there's no other culture that has a myth about the golem, or anything like the golem?Talos
>>530336488>individual creating a servant and then having that servant get sick of his shit and turn on himI feel like this is just karma, and uncle ted would remind us that while its smart to motorize a plough- perhaps its wise that the ox pull it- and that while a car may be faster, a car could never be your friend in the same way a horse can
>>530337891>TalosMoar, plz
>>530338660A'ight, I looked talos up and this does not match the story of the golem. They're both artificial creations, yes, but the message of the golem is to not give up most of your duties to your servants, where as Talos was felled by stubbing his toe.
>>530336970Are you suggesting the story of the golem is a reflection of the jewish psyche?
>>530339443Hey, cool it with the anti-semitism
>>530336488>Did you know that there's no other culture that has a myth about the golem, or anything like the golem? It seems to be an intrinsically Jewish story. Why do you think the Jewish culture would produce this standalone story of an individual creating a servant and then having that servant get sick of his shit and turn on him? Isn't that interesting that there's no cultural corollary to this myth anywhere else in the world?The Golem character reminds me of Tolkien's story of Sauron creating slave soldiers out of mud in "Mordor", which is essentially eastern Europe or central Asia.It makes me imagine an early, small group of Yamnaya warriors going into the Vinca culture, killing every man, turning every boy into a slave, and then those slaves live on to be maybe Judeans or something of that nature. Maybe it wasn't the Vinca culture, but that does perfectly fit the geographical location of Mordor. But maybe it wasn't supposed to be allegory. I've read other historians say that Turania is where civilization's "evil" started.
>>530339443My problem with "jewish" anything is that they don't really exist prior to maybe 1500 years ago. My understanding of Judeans circa ~2000+ years ago is that they were quite similar to Mesopotamians and Egyptians, albeit smaller in scale. Their location was ideal for managing trade routes around the entire region, which I think is also essentially why Israel is so important today. Although today, Israel may have more to do with military placements next to some of the more sovereign regions of the world (who often unify and fight against the west, through history).If we want to talk about a Jewish psyche, probably the closest thing would be a Babylonian psyche, since that was the previous banking center in the region, and really all Jewish conspiracies are based on Jews being the "banking race". This title is a little silly, but it's how people rationalize it.
>>530340507Also, the reason the temple in Jerusalem was so important is that it was a massive bank.
>>530340507Well the "jewish" myth is plagued by schisms. Us vs them. Obviously the hero's journey is a similar pattern but it eventually results in individuation. I don't really know shit about psychology and I'm skeptical of Joseph Campbell because he was such an adamant follower of Jung and I believe Jung was a basic bitch too afraid to go off the deep end.
>>530341258>I'm skeptical of Joseph Campbell because he was such an adamant follower of Jung and I believe Jung was a basic bitch too afraid to go off the deep end.I agree. Pretty much all psychology is a form of astrology. Take it with a grain of salt.A better version of the hero's journey is the fool's journey. The Major Arcana spells the process out much more plainly.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_ArcanaI'm of the belief that this is part psychological, but it's more abstract than that. It's alchemical. It's describing the flow from one principle to the next.
For the case of european folklore, there is the princess being rescued from the dragon. This is referenced more clearly in the tale of Saint George and the dragon, the tale of 2 brothers or the myth of perseus and andromeda. It becomes a staple of western storytelling.But it also references an older proto-indoeuropean myth of the thunder/sky god killing the serpent/dragon.This trope is so prevalent that even later developments of christian scripture in the revelations reference it.
Meanwhile in east asian storytelling there is the classic "meeting the old master at the top of the mountain" which is a particular configuration of the hero's journey
The golem never betrays the Jews
>>530342320Kinda seems like it relates to an institution rather than a person. Ancient banking systems had to be managed, otherwise they would blow up in their faces. Hence, the Jubilees.
the niger-congo peoples have an emphasis on the trickster animals (even if the european and asian peoples have them as well in the "cunning-fox" archetype but these are older developments) that use their wits to get ahead in a world where god is powerful but detached from the world.
>>530340507I'm gonna have to look into Babylonian myth it seems>>530341258>I believe Jung was a basic bitch too afraid to go off the deep end.>>530341573>Pretty much all psychology is a form of astrology. Take it with a grain of salt.I dig Jung's framework, but recognize that what he did was primarily laying a foundation. The nuances of the mind bely depths of human potential that transcend understanding, Jung was able to bear witness to that and was even able to articulate it well enough for critical minds to comprehend (if not agree) with it. That being said, it's largely been adopted by the populace in a religious fashion, mostly because the foundational architecture enables the same benefits that most people turn to religion (or astrology) for.>>530342320Touche anon
>>530344123>I'm gonna have to look into Babylonian myth it seemsSupposedly the priesthood of Marduk was the strongest power mid-millenium in Babylon. You might start there.
>>530337992based
The Hero's Journey seems both too specific in its structure, but also to have too many bits and pieces that can be dropped as necessary and made to fit anything I'm not sure it has any real explanatory power.
>>530336488>Why do you think the Jewish culture would produce this standalone story of an individual creating a servant and then having that servant get sick of his shit and turn on him? Isn't that interesting that there's no cultural corollary to this myth anywhere else in the world?There's some parallels in the golem and Japanese tsukumogami, where objects achieve a soul after 100 years and can turn into basically poltergeists when disrespected
>>530336488isn't the Golem just a Hylic/Xoikoi?
