>Be me>Ibew local 363>Local doesnt allow apprentices to vote>The local refuses to show apprentices the bylaws. Tried to charge 250 dollars when they were pressed for them. >Apprentices pay the exact same union dues as journeyman despite being paid 1/4 of the pay >Bylaws technically allowed apprentices to vote, they lied to apprentices saying they couldnt>At meeting they only displayed hourneyman wages and allowed only journeyman to vote on new contract>Contract goes through >Only way apprentices found out wages got cut was by someone snapping a photo of the contract showing the scale (hard wages were not posted, it only showed percentage for apprentices)>Picture circulates>Math gets done>Apprentices shit bricks and throw a shitfit>Entire local union 363 is in class war between old boomers saying "i got mine pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and apprentices doing all the work while journeymen smoke weed and steal tools on jobs >An Entire class demands to see the bylaws>They get told no >Fast forward, the international gets involved >Tells business manager he has to let the apprentices vote on the contract or else>The union hall cold calls every journeyman to vote the contract through or else in renegotiation theyll mess with the annuity plan withdrawals extending the withdrawal date another ten years >Apprentices are tasked with entire classes removing their chairs from classes to fill the great hall for the meeting monday before the vote>Theres talk of also holding a motion to bar apprentices from voting and still forcing them to pay union dues, using journeyman presence to outvote the apprenticesPics related the new and old wage scale. It's a seven year program. Most locals are five years and many people in these locals make more in their first year than 363 workers do four years in. I'm going to post more information on the business side to give you all the entire picture of what they're doing and how much they vote themselves for raises
This was the photo taken of the apprentices scale. They had it in screen very briefly.
This was the notice sent out after the international got involved. There is also numerous posts by other apprentices on Reddit if anyone wants to look up "ibew 363 Reddit" on Google. They figured out the idiots who used their actual real profile to post this and isolated them and it lead to one of them deleting slot of information posted.
This is the wages of all the business side pushing the new contract through
This is their expenses sheet
Spending over 13,000 in hotels in a year
More charts on their expenses
>>531863564This is an actual politics thread so I'm bumping it.
Kill boomers
Ok so more pissy neet incels that can't into a real job? No fucking wonder we are hiring h1bs. Fucking pussy ass white crybabies
>>531863564thats union money? I would maybe bother getting out of bed for double the old 5th rate
>>531864080I'd hate to post Reddit but this has more information as most dweebs use it per capital. Most of these efforts are spearheaded by dick riders of business manager Sam Fratto. Dave "he hits her" schnitzer (several divorces under his belt), Rocco "the snow" Morino (guess why) and Kyle "cock'n'eyeball" Parenzan (has one eye with a crooked fake one). They're pushing back against any apprentices wanting to have their own vote on their own contract. All the while giving themselves raises https://www.reddit.com/r/IBEW/comments/1ry47gu/get_shit_on_apprentices/https://www.reddit.com/r/IBEW/comments/1rygs3x/an_update_on_my_local_deciding_to_screw_its/https://www.reddit.com/r/IBEW/comments/1s3qvln/update_to_recent_363_contract_negotiations_good/https://www.reddit.com/r/IBEW/comments/1s4c5sd/update_on_363/
>>531863564Finally some good fucking politics
>>531863564If communism and organized crime had a baby, its name would be unions.
>>531864080Same. Got nothing to contribute, but this is an interesting example of the stranglehold boomers have on high paying jobs.
Somebody explain what the fuck I’m looking at.
>>531864457is it ?
>>531864506This is the old scale. What apprentices were expecting. Mind you they had to do two preliminary years of "labor history" which paid fifteen dollars an hour, charged union dues and didn't have indentured status
>>531864614this is still incredibly low, wtf? I have a background in electronics so we sort of occupy the same world, but what skilled person is working for 17 dollars?
>>531864614This is the new scale. Basically long story short>Boomers give self raises >Cut apprentices pay 4-6 dollars an hour on average
>>531863564I am confused. When you signed the induction contract it had the scales as a percentage of journeyman wage. So that is locked in for you already. The only way your pay would go down is if journeyman rate went down. This new rate would only effect future apprentices
There was an ibew local in canada that made guys so angry in the 90's they broke off.It's going to take actual irl activism to fix this, strike even if you can't, threaten looking into an alternative union. Put the fucking inflatable rat on your business managers law.
>>531864711Ibew local 363. Sam Fratto and Kyle Parenzan interviewed 180 new applications to replace anyone unhappy with the wage cuts. Told apprentices "there's the door if you don't like it. By the way you'll be charged $12,000 per year we had you in our program if you leave"
>>531864550Workplace politics are the only thing that matters in the real world. The rest is just bants and neets killing time.
>>531864733False. They said the contract ended and there's nothing you can do about it. They didn't offer us any grandfathering in. They said "show me the loss. Nothing is guaranteed. The contract ended it wasn't yours." Peak level "I got mine"
>>531864893Go and get your copy and fucking read it bro
>>531864811I take it the kids coming in and starting out at 17 dollars don't know anything?
>>531863564I find bizarre that the US actually have unions. But then you post stuff like that telling somehow unionized people cannot vote and I realize you actually don't have shit.
>>531864811https://www.amazon.com/CKAuto-Installer-Scratch-Tensile-Strength/dp/B08ZNKX4L5?crid=1R6WR8GI103MZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4-gSCyLJz4-XqYRtJmEBpNZvPyrLyxVHbFj-q_9IWfGVyPnhyQComrnJduR2BiFTpRY7vb9Jbp2CHYvwtpqJeJN_F3VMIr0DnfZENnNMV-e3XvZKSfyj2jWVjsTEOWVvqrBgmct7H1zUli83kKBiJ8VT7PFsx52jBiA2pP2UoQmXXApXU-UksK5LuhXF8hRO2Ik7-6hFiD52WM52mkoKTVJcT65O5y1izTeBxbVpPAEVzyIpIQKfRTZ0JORTszYaz7Za5OqD-dO0rcRegC33xBOracNjjU-hGiO_0Cz3YMQ.5iv6PipmB0_8xdvmbeRHkUbaQbroKUunhgoECYQf6pw&dib_tag=se&keywords=tire%2Bstem%2Bremover&qid=1774755471&sprefix=tire%2Bstem%2Bremove%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-32&th=1
The world will be a better place once all the boomers are dead
I'd be pissed with a pay freeze but getting my pay decreased? There will be lots of poo smearing if that's the case
>>531864614Lol working dude at 5% is such a bullshit amount.Fucklosfs of money for nothing.You probably gotta eat shit on wages to keep market share.It's bullshit your apprentice scale is so lopsided tho.
>>531863564>join union>get scammeddid you seriously fall for the unions are good?
>>531864614you need 7 years to become a journeyman electrician and get a semi-decent wage in NY? no thanks i'll stick to healthcare.
>>531864825is it ?
>>531863564k so get another job thenoh wait, you won't because you're overpaid union scum who can't get better pay elsewhere. You're just like those UAW boomers with 8 grade educations who can barely read pulling down $120k/year. Then they bitch about their schedule or whatever. Get fucked ya snowflake. Quit if you don't like it.
>>531865392When someone invests five years expecting a standard, they put in their time suffering low wages. It's a rug pull. Plain and simple
>>531864949Most of them are nonunion with experience and get told it don't mean shit in many other locals no experience year one apprentices make more than the four years in with this local in New York which has higher cost of living
>>531864938They won't give the bylaws or contract to apprentices. They won't even show them to us. Kyle Parenzan refused
All the apprentices should strike thenStrikes solve every problemThe boomers cant do the work themselves
This local has many issues with contractors doing things like making people work through their paid breaks, paying cash off the books straight time for overtime instead of giving legitimate overtime on the books, working out of territory having apprentices drive up to two hours away daily in some cases. All the while making 15-17 an hour
I genuinely wonder if the mafia controlled unions were better because even though they were corrupt as hell, they were upfront about why they were screwing you. It's for profit. Whereas nowadays boomers are screwing you, but it's because they have hubris and belief society owes them while they voted politically to destroy it and refused to train apprentices unlike the journeymen who trained them. At least you have benefits though. I wasted like 10 years to become a mechanic and got my tools, tires and jobs stolen by my coworkers while the service managers twirled their things or refused to to give me PDIs.
>>531865727Sam Fratto and Kyle Parenzan will terminate any striking apprentices and they will be charged the $12,000 per year they spent in the program if they strike. They will be subsequently replace with the new cheaper applicants
>>531865833> mechanicI do that shit at home
>>531863564Reading through the thread I can see that your dues are ridiculous and your local is terrible. It also makes me realize how blessed I am to be in UA Local 46. Plumbing sucks, but getting double time Friday-Thursday is incredible
>>531863564>Ibew local 363This fuck is complaining about a Electricians union in Bumfuck NY, that probably relies on Government cheese for work contracts.His cost of living is not that high, and his Union is non competitive. OP can just move somewhere else if he doesn't like rural wages.
>>531863564I'm getting 40 leafbucks an hour doing nothing 24/7. What exactly are you doing? My buddy is a journeyman electrician and makes $60 plus a bunch of very decent benefits and perks including a truck.
>>531865857There's always sketchy people in trades and they will be friends with real degens. Hire those people to introduce some 80's style management techniques. Or get the safety inspectors involved. Bosses despise down time from an unannounced fire code inspection more so than a busted knee cap
>>531865857these are people that park cars at night
>>531863564Unions are garbage. They run an extortion ring and make sure the laziest cunt on a job site gets the same wage as a guy who excels in his position. They will also protect that lazy niggers laziness. Unions should be banned.
>>531865218Most trade unions are "good". This guy's local is fucked.
>>531865970It's in central ny only 50 minutes away from nyc. Cost of living is very high and for some reason regular homes can cost a million dollars depending on the town and spot. It's very bad money for the area.
>>531863564Serves you right for joining a union commie scum.
>>531865833Something to be said if violence is the currency, there's a balance between the violence they can inflict vs what they extract and how much violence the collective they're extracting from is willing to do if the equation is off kilter. There's an honesty in it.
>>531865727>strike >get cut>replaced by hordes of jeets>boomers win again>literally everyone else loses
radical idea here, and outlandish, but a group of 8 apprentices in sheistys beating the shit out of one of these names you keep mentioning might do something .someone could even give some homeless a case of natty light or something and get it done. this is a thought experiment, and i think it could work
>>531866048They're actually not all that bad. Many will sideline useless turds.
>>531866041These are also people who have law defense funds pilfered from the wages of workers they suck in and rug pull
also op i just want to say i make around $32 an hour barbacking and like $80/hr bartending, dont suffer this shit.
>>531865727>what are panjeet and manuelnon-union labor babyyour world is so fucked hope you like currykek
>implying journeymen under the age of 50 get hoursIf it weren't for outages I'd be dead in a ditch somewhere.Day of the pillow fucking when.
>>531863564Nice pyramid you got there, but it really does not matter. Like honestly does not matter. In a few years, ASI will be achieved and there will be universal high income. Everyone will be making 100k+. Labour economics is a thing of the past. You can still roleplay as being a play toy for boomers and jews but that wont be necessary. Sit back and relax. NEET max. Become the leech. Embrace the gibs. Great things are coming.
I hope things work out for you, anon. My union only pays 40 an hour for journeymen electricians. There are no apprentices, because the contract at the steelmill says that in case of layoff of journeymen, all apprentices will be returned to their former jobs.
>>531863564Why don't you just beat them with baseball bats? Isn't that how union workers settle disputes?
>>531866235would be a real shame if someone started telling people in ongoing organizing campaigns that the local they are voting to join is dogwater, would suck if they didn't get new dues :((((((
>>531866182This. They basically said there's the door. They're guaranteed going to stuff the ballot box on the election this Monday at 5pm at the hall. They're going to hold a vote to change the bylaws to bar apprentices from ever voting again. Dave Schnitzer has been heard saying "apprentices aren't going to fucking run this union" For clarification in many other halls apprentices have their own meetings and can vote on their own matters and represent themselves to the business manager.
>>531865392>you should get paid like a McDonald's worker because I said soDay of the Pillow soon, Glenn
>>531864893Why don’t you guys get together, get organized, kill some boomers and start running the show yourselves?
>>531863564The moment you said boomer I celebrated you failing and enjoyed the thought of you and your loved ones going hungry and having your shit tier possessions repossessed Learn who your actual enemies are you stupid child
>>531866204Never once seen that in 30 something years. All I have ever seen them do is be run by organised crime, extort dues out of people so they can work, and protect lazy cunts. The last time a union organiser turned up to one of my work sites, I bashed the cunt. I will also not hire union affiliated workers.
>>531863564Leave for a better job and force them to work with beaners. They'll hate it and realize they need to pay more so they don't scare away the human workers.
>>531866238Many people in the program are too old to take a new start alot have kids. Boomers don't care. They say "we did it suck it up" but their pay never got cut as an apprentice. Ever. Earlier in this local it was only a five year program and not seven. And adjusting for inflation the second year in paid then the equivalent of About 25.80 today. It'll take five years to meet that equivalent in the current scale
>>531866402>I want to see you suffer because you got me madSounds to me like he's on target, Grandpa. Get fucked
>>531866465Eh BC is a weird place. We actually still have Co-ops that work and gave social credit a go.
>>531863969Are they away from home on projects all the time?
>>531863564Violence is the only option
>>531866352If you're not willing to kill any of the people responsible for this, then just get another job.
>>531866402Your enemies are the aging population who would sell the future of their country to buy an expensive boat and car to hide their balding hair and reverse their mortgage so their kid has to pay rent competing with Indian immigrants
>>531866503it’s beyond absurd how much more i’m making then you guys on shifts where all i do is wash glassware and take out trash
>>531866402In this case the jew has crawled into the brain of the boomer and is using it as an avatar. It's an easy mistake to make.
This is what wildcat strikes are for btw
>>531866557No they're in the hall all day doing administrative work it seems. I'm not on here to larp violence. The court of public opinion is more dangerous to these people. They need political influence to survive
>>531866537Might be different there, but unions are an absolute cancer here. They had a place when they were working for decent pay and cinditions. Now it is just greed to the level that we no longer have a manufacturing industry here.
>>531866557Probably five-star hotels at meet and greet conventionsStart taking their tools or fucking up their work
>>531866599>Wildcat strikes what is that
>>531866083>Most trade unions are "good"No, they literally aren't.They exist entirely as middlemen to fleece morons of their pay check through union dues under the pretence of "fighting for workers rights"Ask yourself this question; if working conditions became perfect for workers, what is the purpose of a union? There becomes a tipping point where Unions have an inherent vested interest in sabotaging working conditions and actively going against worker's interests in order to maintain the grift.
>>531863564I work healthcare, in a very profitable hospital. I work a reasonable position, I'm not cleaning floors or picking up trash or anything. This has been my last 3 years of "raises.">76c>37c>32cWhat happened after these raises>healthcare plan increased from 25 a month to 40 a month>parking permit price 400 a year to almost 600 a year>surge pay 17 dollars an hour to 8 dollars an hour1 step forward, 2 steps back. Meanwhile they sending emails that our hospital is doing "so good," it's "better than ever." meanwhile people are leaving in droves, consistent low staff, every once in a while they "gift" us a dollar 2 an hour vacancy pay, only to take it away when raises get posted.
>>531866622>The court of public opinion is more dangerous to these peopleLOL FAGGOT
>>531863564It's not boomers. I have been apart of multiple Unions and it's always older people who do this. Doesn't matter whether it's Boomers, Gen X, millenials, or guys who hit the benchmark for top pay.All Americans are selfish scum. Unions exist on legacy mode. If we started from the ground up Americans would have no real Unions. >I repeat. All Americans are selfish scum.
>>531866658Striking without the union's permission when they turn into a boomer nepo guild instead of what a union is supposed to be(They're illegal in America btw)
>>531866622>>531864054This one is more compelling. What does a union officer do?
>>531865970Why don't the boomers take the pay cut then? They're already wealthy, they don't need money.
>>531866642The public unions here only give a shit about politics and literal gay shit, but the trade unions are still (mostly) ok. Depends which one of course. One guy, we're all in our mid 30s, has done very well with the pipefitters union. That said most of the guys I know that were in the union end up in management positions anyway. Regular union slogging really is for the midwits and lower.
>>531866666Quints of truth.
>>531866709If you strike them they cry victim. And this guinea is never going to have the satisfaction of claiming victory of sending someone to prison
>>531865694Wait you have a contract but you cant see it? How tf does that work? Whatd you sign?
>>531866666It's mostly about leverage against employers, and the numbers are pretty clear. All depends on the level of union penetration, quality of the organizations. Nothing simple about the metrics on whether it's good or not and it's always regional.
>>531866754They claim "they did their time" but they only had a five year program with much better wage scale adjusting for inflation
>>531866728>All Americans are selfish scumTruer words never spoken
>>531866402the enemy is boomers you old faggot. I hope you know all the boomers kids know and they will put you into a facility where niggers will beat and abuse you and rape your wife for fun and there won't be a single bruise on their conscience when they put you there. Boomers are going to deserve the abandonment their kids impose on them when they need them the most. You'll die alone, probably murdered by a nigger in a senior living facility and the nigger will get away with it while your children laugh about it.
>>531866804Signed rules stating what I owe the union if I leave and why I can be terminated. Had to sign HIPPA releases as well
>>531866757Here they drove the pay of unskilled labour so high, the guy at an ice cream factory refilling the machine that puts lids on tubs was on 120k a year. And they wonder why we manufacture almost nothing now.
I always knew my instinctual murderous hatred toward old blue collar niggers was justified
>>531866895Well you're never competing with chink wages without tariffs. The entire developed world should have sliding tariffs against shitholes based on HDI and other data sets.
>>531866182> be sure you remember what your reflection looks like in the mirror
>>531866884You signed something that doesnt give you anything? It has to give both sides something or it isnt even a valid contract in US.
>>531866968Even still, completely unskilled labour I could train a dog to do is not worth 120k a year.
>>531867028Can you tell me more? I'd like to read about it . They probably claim "you get an education and hands on the job learning"
>>531866757>he trade unions are still (mostly) ok.That will not last. Everything in the modern world is get in where you can.We had the exact same shit as OP happen with the Teamsters. They immediately started fucking us the second Trump got elected. >Oldheads got increased vacation+raises (which only applied to like 2% of the guys)>Everyone else got a 'raise' but was actually a paycut because they weaseled in an old clause re-establishing an old payscaleI filed a grievance over it. I got fired. Union got my job back. Company made it clear they were going to keep fucking with me (boss was a literal Jew) until I got hurt or quit. Left immediately.I did not receive even a single thank you or word of acknowledgement for the 98% of guys I lost my job to protect. Why?>All Americans are 'fuck you i got mine' scum
>>531865857>Join a union>poor treatment>unable to strike >threatened to be replaced with scabsThings have come full circle.
>>531866863>the enemy is boomersNo. All of Gen X, Millennials, and eventually Gen Z if we don't nuke ourselves by that point will ALL morph into selfish cunts.Why?>All Americans are selfish scum
>>531866884uh if you just decide “fuck it i don’t want this” and quit why the FUCK would you have to PAY?
>>531863564>Boomers
>>531865857Speaking of the IBEW. New York and especially NYC are known to be extremely corrupt locals. There's big money in this region and they can bribe/threaten anyone to keep workers down. That's why you need mafioso/hoffa figures in that region. Nobody will play nice otherwise.
>>531865694Not the bylaws or the MLA or the JATC apprenticeship agreement you fucking dipshit, the induction contract. YOU have a copy. It was unique to YOU. I imagine you must have lost it because you seem like a fucking retard but you were given it when you first joined. It was literally the main contract you signed. It will have the apprenticeship rate locked in as a percentage of journeyman
>>531867177Because they claim, despite us paying the same exact amount of money in union dues as journeyman so "we invested alot of time and effort in your education" meanwhile the state subsidizes the program. I would not be shocked if money was embezzled
>>531867056Probably not, no. A basic bitch retard job should be able to pay off a shithole house in 10 years, and that's how the numbers should be run. What *things* is a job worth, not dollars. If you can live off the hog doing nothing something is probably wrong.
>>531867222No I have all my old papers. Any of the ones they didn't take from me. It's all together.
>>531867069It is called "consideration". A valid contract always has both parties give something up.
>>531867074You're probably not wrong. Even MEC which was a huge co-op success story was sold out because the charter wasn't ironclad and management made a killing selling it out. I hate commies but cutthroat Chicago school capitalism is equally as jewish. Existing co-ops are changing their charters to better protect against such jewry.
>>531867222The rate wasn't locked in. You should read the links I posted. That's why the entire apprentice program is in an uproar. Things aren't run properly here as you say it should be. They hide everything from new hires. You don't get a copy
>>531867254ok but if the reasoning behind giving blanket decreases in pay is that the contract ended and a new one began, and that’s without your affirmation, than the contract has ended and you’re not an indentured slave
>>531867288Then fucking read them instead of this faggotry you are doing on this site.
>>531866728>I repeat. All Americans are selfish scum.I'm not...
>>531867345They have you sign a separate sheet each school year committing to the program or you're owing them the cost per year you were in. It's a separate sheet
As always, the solutions is to run an eugenics program. Selfish people with no sense for fairness should be sterilized and their DNA should not proliferate. That's the core issue.
>>531867352I did. Nothing of value was given to use to retain
>>531867406but the contract has ended as per their reasoning just quit go barback dude. they can’t take the money from you if you don’t let them
>>531863564Damn I'm so glad I don't pay union dues or belong to your shitty chapter. I just got an 8% raise and never pay attention to what the union is doing. I'm trying to be management or two states away in the near future anyway. Still though our apprentices get to vote if they pay.
>>531867426What a horribly racist and antisemitic thing to say!
>>531867463But you signed a separate one annually promising repayment that's the point. And I enjoy my line of work. Just not scumbags lying
>>531865833>I genuinely wonder if the mafia controlled unions were betterThey were. The scheme was dipping from your dues. By tying dues to earnings they had a great incentive to provide you a great wage. Once they realized that dipping from pensions was even more lucrative they did that also, which increased your pension.Unfortunately they got too greedy and stole massive quantities from the pensions. Then the state cracked down on the mafia in the unions. This actually lead to them weakening over time. Let me make it simple>mafia muscle backs unions>companies/contractors don't fuck around because they can suffer legitimate personal consequences>mafia can threaten and/or bribe officers to look the other way in cases of strikesadd.>they steal 50% of your pension>but without it you wouldn't have been threatening enough to have a pension anyways>they dip from dues>without it, they'd have no major incentive to increase (You)r payThe situation now:>no mafia presence>Unions can't do anything but threaten strikes on contract expiration>Companies/contractors can import scabs indefinitely, only exception is in cases of niche skilled labor>executives don't have to worry about decapitated horses in their beds and 'offers they can't refuse'>union officials can be easily bribed by said companies>new members are too chickenshit and retarded, will give ground with each contract to preserve what they (and not newer members) haveThe old system was unironically far superior. Sure it sounded 'unethical' but might makes right. Execs don't fear labor shortages. They fear guns.
And now we know why boomers push us into trade work. It's a big sham; you are imprisoned in your job with low wages and a promise that eventually you will get that middle-class wage, but it never happens. Unions only make things worse by promising to work for you but refusing to do so.
>>531866622Then get the other apprentices and form a picket line outside the union hall. What are you, retarded?
>>531863564boomers are retired genius
>>531866897ThisFuck tradie boomer retards
>>531866019Most union workers are meth users. t. IBEW Master Race
>>531867638Half of them are scared of retaliation and dismissal front the organization. You're not allowed to picket the union itself. They tell you who picket against, who to vote for in political elections, pay dues, but you can't vote internally and you can't picket internally
OP also posted about this on Reddit with when he served in the Navy, the age of his son, and a picture of his house on his post history. Brother's cookedIf you're going to go against people like this, watch your fucking opsec. If I can find this, some private eye that some Hoffa wannabe would hire to find out who's trying to derail his gravy train absolutely would
Union electrician here, basically my goal is to be dispatched to a project, annoy my supervisor until he lays me off, go on unemployment and sleep. I drink a ton of whiskey, I am too much of a coward to kms, so I exist to spread misery. I have been high functioning and successful, it really wasn't any better, I hate being alive regardless.
>>531867728Nah that wasn't me. I saw that shit too what a moron. You always make a burner for things like that.
>>531867725What are they gonna do, shoot you?
>>531867108Systems like this need recursive functions to keep them from becoming corrupt. They also need one to ensure the body that will be using it isn't corrupt either. Too many systems were designed assuming too much good is inherent. These failures opened holes for chemsex addict psychotics like Peter Theil in to take control in the worst ways imaginable.
>>531867592>>531867662>we know why boomers push us into trade workThey don't. All of them told you to get a white collar job. Guys in the IBEW make ridiculous money. Doctor-level, sometimes above if you consider pensions+healthcare. I believe the local in OP's pic also gets a 25% ontop hourly directly into the pension.And no, they're not 'privileged' for this. You need them to survive. You couldn't even type this message without their labor. They deserve every single penny.
>>531867764The state of our nation really is soul crushing.
>>531865833Notice how shit has got a lot worse since the decline of the mob
>>531867829The way they're scared you'd think they believe it >>531867844You have to survive seven years of poverty to make it in 363
>>531863564Did you know that in roman times apprentince had to work 3 years from 14 to 17 to become a fully qualified anything including doctor.For most of history it was like this. Then came guilded age and first boomers appearded in germany. They made it 7 years with possible extensions in case of "bad behavior" so 14 years of no freedom to get a loicence to be able to work for yourself. Boomerism happened in the past.
>>531863855>Its a bunch of greaseball wopsI am so surprised. Those fucks are the Indians of the union world.
>>531867947Not really. Most Unions operate on a 4-year payscale, with the big jump happening on year-4. Many apprentices will wash out (aka, be useless their entire career) so guys with exp. will often fight for pics like OP, so they're not forced to compensate out of their own paychecks. And some trades do require vocational training now. Which is justified considering how dangerous these jobs can be and how stupidly tradies behave in general.
>>531867725>You're not allowed to picket the union itself.Yeah, youre retarded. Picketing isnt about what you are allowed to do. You are a boot licker and a pussy and you will accept the wage cut because you are too chicken shit to do anything about it. Sucks to suck.
>>531867947The problem is the wages are being promised to lure people in then rug pulled to give the higher ups a raise. Apprentices are mandated to go to political rallies, town halls, protests, meetings and functions with no financial compensation and their wages are being reduced to pay journeyman who never show up to any of these except maybe ten to twenty in the whole local
>>531863564Mods. Delete this thread. Right now. That is an ORDER!
>>531868145Easy to say when you're not at risk for being sued for 60,000 dollars after making burger king wages for several years
>>531865857>they will be charged the $12,000 per year they spent in the program if they strike.That sounds like some made-up bullshit that they could never legally enforce.I've know guys who left or were kicked out of "builders' guild" apprenticeships and none of them paid a cent. Those fuckers probably get $12k/yr from the state toward your training and act like it's out of their own pocket.
>>531868180Found the wop
>7 year apprenticeship>electricianmfw
>>531868197It's been done before they make examples in this local.
Yeah trades suckEverything in this country is a scam
>>531867445I genuinely feel you are one of those people who give unions a bad name. I for one am going to be happy that you get kicked outt. Been a journeyman less than a year
>>531863564HahReminds me of the well testing company i know of>invests 25million~ into a trucking devision to haul their shit>all our clients already have preferres vendors for all the trucking and other ultility services like loaders thst come alongside their businesses, locally mind you, not 2-4+ hours out>upper management anounces BUDGET CUTS>first its our camp sub of $10 whol fucking maple syrup tokens to 0>fortunately intown keeps their $50, still outclassed by literally every other service>they also usually get $50 as a base for their camp work ffs>find out in the last couple months, our frac tickets have increases by 250%>meanwhile budgetcuts 2.0 came by in autumn last year of around 10% everyones dayrate>this is on top of the vacation pay scam they included in the total calculation for said dayrate>to date, in almost 3 years on and off feast or famine working conditions, ive had 4 or 5 wage changes, two of which were in bad faith bwcause od the deception involved with them calculating dayrate with vacation payIts so much fucking fun being a canadian and nickeled and dimed for everything you have, let alone due to inflation; im actually making far less than i ever did as a 14 year old busboy, but also putting in 100hr work weeks to achieve thst much lessSo fucking gay lmaoI hope this company tanks and declares bankruptcy for all this gayness
>>531868263Only takes a year to become a faggot. Good to know
>>531868192You cant squeeze blood from a turnip, my retarded friend. Either do something about it or lay back and take it. Its that simple.
>>531867568In the US back when creating at least a semblance of a free market was attempted, before anti-trust laws were removed and creating monopoly conglomerates was very hard, and before mass immigration, there wasn't really much use for unions. There was actually some truth to the boomer aphorism>if you don't like it just get a new jobBecause there was shitloads of jobs, and if there wasn't people could try to make something happen themselves. Unions in the US have always been fucked.In Europe unions worked pretty well, but that's because the situation here was very different. We were very homogenuous populations faced with the type of monopoly economic structures you had managed to avoid. So you had workers who actually stuck together against the richfags in charge. Of course, with mass immigration that all went out the window, because it's impossible to build a working union when the corpolords can just import endless scabs to compensate.In the end shit's fucked both here and there. Entrepreneurship is pretty much made impossible by state sanctioned monopolists, and unions are made impossible by making the population as non-homogenous and divided as possible.
>>531867875I can't even buy a water without a shitskin trying to smear it's filthy poo hands on it one last time before I exit the store, I know he smeared poo on the water when he stocked the cooler, but it's the freshness of that last touch that bothers me so much.
>>531863564>Muh wages!!!!!!Don't like how much Shlomo pays you? Go start your own business.>>B-b-but you need capital to start a business!!!!No you don't. Richard Branson started Virgin Airways, a commercial airline, with literally no money. So if an airline can be started with no capital, any business can.
>>531866161>It's in central ny only 50 minutes away from nyc. Cost of living is very high and for some reason regular homes can cost a million dollars depending on the town and spot. It's very bad money for the area.The very bottom of their coverage map touches the edge of suburbia.
>boomnigger ladder kickers sell the future for a quick buckthe past 50 years of history have just been playing on a loop
>>531868304There is an ongoing effort to organize and vote this down, however it's expected they'll stuff the ballot box. Only way of recourse after that is media or dept of labor, or waiting it out and making motions as journeyman to undo it all
>>531868375Great I hadn't thought of that. That said I've been going to extreme lengths to avoid any place that hires browns. Ultimately it's unavoidable until they're gone.
>>531867728We're gonna need a vet, because that puppy is sick
>>531868332>Unions in the US have always been fucked.It's a very bloody history. And it had to be that way. The main problem now is that people, of all stripes and colors are a combination of three factors>pussies>selfish>stupidUnion decides to fuck the young guys over: The first will say "what am I supposed to do about it?"The second will say "fuck you I got mine" then post their paystubsThe third will say "huh? we got a yewneeyun?"All three archetypes of extremely prevalent in the trades.
>>531868408Don't trust what they post. That's your first mistake. They have people working out of territory and coming from the edge or out of territory
>>531868385I'll be happy when the bottom falls out and there's no bootstraps for you faggots to cling onto.
>>531868110>>531868110Oh please fuck off I worked on an oil rig with a month of training. Whole safety bulshit is just an excuse for gatekeeping.You need more years if you want to be advance up the ranks up to chief electrician or shit like that.>>531868146Apprentice system shouldnt exist if you ask me. Some safety training for month and then its up to you to learn. Bit your boss shouldnt be able to decide if you have a permit to work at all. Any proffesion that has apprentice system is filled with demonic boomers exploiting poeple. Doctors and lawyers for example. A lot of engineers design/program machines that can kill 30 poeple with no apprentice system.
>>531863564guess the ballot box didn't work, now time for the ammo box
>>531868424You know they will cheat and use dirty tactics, so you know you will lose. Still, you refuse to cheat or use dirty tactics, that is why you will lose.A picket line outside the union hall, refusing to let any new apprentice applicant through would change their minds quick. You are too much of a coward to even consider it. Why even be in a union? Just leave, let them sue you, declare bankruptcy and discharge the debt. If you cant strike, collectively bargain your wages and are under the threat of scab labor you have literally lost all the benefits of being in a union. Again, you are a retard.
>>531868475Seethe more. You can't counter the point raised, so you just fling shit like an angry chimp in the zoo.
>>531865061union boomers are worse than jews >>531865857>>531866352just kill them. what do you apprentices even have to lose at this point, they even took your dignity and ability to vote
>>531868468>The main problem now is that people, of all stripes and colors are a combination of three factors>>pussies>>selfish>>stupidYeah, mostly it's the selfish and stupid. But also the lack of any homogenity and a lack of being an actual group. Think of a modern labor pool somewhere... you have a white guy and a chinese woman and a mexican old man etc... these people have nothing in common, you can't build any sort of "brotherhood" type feelings between them. And if on the offhand chance you manage to cross all these weird divisions and build some sort of unity, then the people in charge just import endless scabs and replace them through the mass immigration schemes.It's not possible to create any sort of workers rights leverage in the modern west.
>>531868611I have other ideas in mind first but you got balls and I respect that
>>531868582>A lot of engineers design/program machines that can kill 30 poeple with no apprentice system.It's called university and internships, after which they become "junior" engineers and their pay increases as they accrue more experience until eventually they become regular engineers after a few years. Sound familiar?
Eurofags, if this thread is still up when you wake up, understand that this is why we laugh when you say the problem with America is that we left the unions.
>>531868582>Oh please fuck off I worked on an oil rig with a month of training.What exactly do you not understand? Apprentices receive extremely generous packages from the get-go. Most in the IBEW (outside of wiremen or S*uthern locals* will make well above six-figures their first year.>>531868263see: This guy is a foreman and will likely pocket 600k. That includes free healthcare, a generous pension, the ability to pick and choose whatever jobs you want, having no boss, having a union back you, and every time a job ends you can get paid to do nothing while collecting unemployment >>531867764So unlike most jobs, the apprentices aren't starving. They're comparatively rich compared to 95% of the pop., especially considering many will start at 18 years old and have no debts.And yes, people starting out SHOULD get paid less. Pay should be commiserate with experience. Starting apprentices don't know jack shit about anything and are a liability. To think they should be paid the same as journeyman is ridiculous.
>>531868192>Easy to say when you're not at risk for being sued for 60,000 dollars after making burger king wages for several yearsDude its a scam why did you accept undentured servitute its one step above slavery. My advice just be slow and usless if they fire you you dont have to pay penalties. If you do then sue them.
>>531863564Just go take a competency test and get your state license union is fake and gay, doesn't get you jobs pay or a license
>>531868818lmao, work so slow you are only one notch above stopped.
>>531863564I don't know what that piece of paper means but even the highest dollar amount on there ($38.50) is retard wages. If you're an adult fucking man and you're earning that wage you have FAILED at life.
>>531868791Absolutely false the apprentices often have previous nonunion experience as they get accepted before anyone with no experience. However it's at the very bottom getting in and their pay is less with the understanding and promise that wages improve after three years. Other locals have much better pay scales and less scummy leadership
>>531868648Even in my etnically pure country. Good luck getting someone with kids and mortgage. Especially mortgage to do anything risky.Debt is used to keep poeple scared. If you have no debt you fear nothing.
>>531868906That's after seven years. They have labor history 1+2 as preliminary years before being considered an apprentice (1-5) and labor history starts at about 16 dollars an hour. You're expected to work for burger king wages until five years in of working bottom dollar, going to classes, and all mandatory unpaid political functions at the will of the business manager
>>531868582>safety an excuse to bullshit gatekeepingLet me know when you have to flow a 15% sour well Oh waitYou just drill the hole and have to keep backpressure with mud and otherWait noYoure retarded and dont even have a BOP ticket, right?Those rules are written in bloodSame as dont stick your hand where you wouldnt your dickConsider yourself lucky you went home each and every day you did, some people dont, idiot
>>531867702Kinda fucked to realize if you're in an arena for like a hockey game in a mid-size city with 50 000 people in the seats, there's about 1500 methheads in that building.
>>531868678You just need university and a couple of months working with someone who knows the job and thats it. If you ask me you dont even need university if you have tehnical school.
This is the website for the local the post is discussing https://ibewlu363.org/htdocs/index.html
>>531868791The healthcare and pension don't mean shit to a young guy, most apprentices can't choose their jobsites, and someone would have to live with their parents to pay for a vehicle and rent taking home $17/hr.It's fucking McDonalds money.
>>531863564My sister has worked at a grocery store for 30 years. Every time they have some sort of "contract negotiation" all the benefits go to the people who have been in for a LONG time, and NOT anybody with just a few years.I don't mean that the new people will get those benefits eventually. They will NEVER get the benefits the union just negotiated for the "old timers". The union is cannibalizing young new people to pay for the gibs of the older members.I always wonder how long a union like that can survive before the "not grandfathered in people" are 51% and decide the union is totally worthless?
>>531868907>Absolutely falseNo it isn't. Don't get pissy and start speaking in absolutes because it triggered your spidey-senses that I disagree with OP. I don't. I'm merely stating the reality.Many apprentices might have related experience working in/around the field. They might go to a vocational school. But they are dangerous. You are in the IBEW. Any mistakes you make could be your last. And perhaps on your side it might just be you who dies, but in other areas it could get groups of people killed.And again, many will washout which means the investment, including the generous pay to train them turns into a black hole. That makes J-man wages lower to compensate. In trades nobody values you until you prove you are competent and know what the fuck it is you are doing. That's why you put in hours and take periodic tests to ensure you know what you're doing. Apprentices are also slower and therefore their labor value is worth less.And again, I don't disagree with OP. You've been ignoring my posts where I fundamentally agreed with you. But it is a foolish statement to say it's "Absolutely false".
>>531863564>getting rug raped by boomerskinda just hoping the economy implodes at this point cause idgaf
>>531869009This little Nancy masks up and gets her boosters. In my day, we’d punch a sour Sally while drinking screwdrivers then hop in the jeep and out wrestle Stu Hart in his own damn dungeon then make him flip us some catshit flapjacks then drunkdrive (a safe and legal thrill) 90 clicks back to the job site.
Protip if you're going to strike, apprentices, don't just not show up for work. Show up for work, take all the tools, PREPARE FOR SELF DEFENSE, and occupy the worksite. DO NOT ALLOW ANY WORK TO GET DONE WHILE YOU'RE STRIKING.Frankly there should be an immediate strike along the above lines until the union leadership is kicked out and replaced. That or dissolve the union and form a new one.
>>531869101I just reported this thread under the apprentice disciplinary report form.
>>531863564>unionYou brought this on yourselves, now kiss your boyar's boots.
>>531868629Your point is an embellished anecdote written by a pedo you NIGGERHang yourself by those bootstraps
>>531863564I don’t really get union dues. Shouldn’t unions be paying you for the pleasure of being in the union and not charging your own rates?
>>531869007Ok so how much do you mane after 7 years of this bullshit?
>got my 6 fig WFH job>niche, depression proof industry>lean but national team/customer base>healthy pay raises, 10%/year not including incentives>conservative culture (black rifle boomer shit but still)Now I feel I cannot leave. Don’t know how I got so lucky. Told them I want to take a day off a week for a few months because we just had another kid and my boss says “yeah you work your ass off, go be with your kid” with no PTO needed and full pay. Whew. Glad I got out of low voltage cabling. I did love the job though
>>531869210>The healthcare and pension don't mean shit to a young guyThat's a dumb take. We should temper our expectations based on young people being shortsighted?>most apprentices can't choose their jobsitesCorrect, you're an apprentice. You can refuse a job but it reflect poorly on you. 4 years is nothing compared to everything.>taking home $17/hr.That's why I specified wiremen. Wiremen are electricians. Very poor pay to start -- that is true. But there are quite a few other classifications and they all pay much more. Fuckin' tree trimmers if I recall get like $30 some/hr to start.
>>531867555says who? the people who ended your contract to pay you less?
If you want to do things the reliable way, you have to jump through all the hoops.
>>531869329If your union calls a strike, the stewards pay themselves from the slush fund the dues create through the duration of the talks. The picket marchers get nothing until a deal is settled on and work resumes.
>>531869269I'm not alluding to anything but certain Teamsters were known to slash tires come scab day
imagine the smell
>>531864460>ifWhere do you think unions came from?>hi goy, have you heard of collective bargaining? It's when I bargain for you and collect the difference
>>531869572Unions came from blood. They are the most anti-Jew institutions in existence. Hence why for over 100 years they're still trying to destroy them.
>>531869365Fat slop-ingesting boomer retard spotted.Someone in their 20s doesn't need $500/month Cadillac healthcare.>4 years is nothingYes, if you have someone carrying you while making fast food wages until those 4 years are up.>WiremenIt's a skilled trade requiring physical labor regardless>Fuckin' tree trimmers get ~$30 to startExactly, that's my pointBut not wiremen?
>>531869572>>531869634Break it down for me like I’m an idiot and I have a milkshake
>>531869359Please share the name of the career?
>>531863564Why did the boomers forsake their own? >>531864825>let the goyim have the real world
>>531869657>Someone in their 20s doesn't need $500/month Cadillac healthcare.Everyone deserves free healthcare.>while making fast food wages until those 4 years are up.Only for wiremen. Secondly, I didn't disagree with you, so chill out with the salt.>It's a skilled trade requiring physical labor regardlessAnd it has been repeated numerous times with no response:- New apprentices are not only useless but actively dangerous to everyone around them- Many will washout thus being a complete black hole to everyone around them>Exactly, that's my point But not wiremen?I agree that wiremen should be paid more. But as I stated, starting out you're functionally useless and dangerous. Tree trimmers are useful from the get-go. And if they wash out it's easy come easy go.Think about this RATIONALLY anon. If you ran a Union, how would you feel if you most of your apprentices are drunks, drug addicts, have behavioral issues (all of which are common in the trades), dangerous, and quit before a year or two are up?How would you justify paying them generous wages when they are a net drain, when they won't even complete the apprenticeship? Don't strawman me on this, please examine this logically and tell me how that's a good deal.
>>531869913counterpoint: why would anyone useful bother to slave away at great personal risk for shit pay? eventually you'll be left with nothing but washouts if all you're willing to pay is peanuts.
>>531868932Did unions work in your country in the past?
>>531870105>why would anyone useful bother to slave away at great personal risk for shit pay?Because there are people lined up out the door to become electricians and that will only increase since AI will take most white-collar jobs.
>>531869572Ultimately they came from the French revolution.
>>531867135Just like millennials will turn more conservative over time of course.>checks watchAnytime now. 50 is still young and they will change, just you wait and see. It's a uniquely boomer issue that extends slightly into gen X wannabe boomers.
>>531870205>Because there are people lined up out the door to become electricians Because they've bought into the hype that trades pay great, which increasingly they don't. Markets remain efficient in the long run, and "efficient" generally means "closer and closer to third world shit sweeper living conditions for the unlanded proles," hence why unions came about in the first place
>>531869913>How would you justify paying them generous wages when they are a net drain, when they won't even complete the apprenticeship? Don't strawman me on this, please examine this logically and tell me how that's a good deal.You are correct. They should get paid the absolute minimum it's possible to live on and feed a family on. But that's the problem, they get paid way less than that.But that's a systemic problem that permeates our soicieties, it's not a union/guild specific problem per se. The whole idea that the minimum amount of pay for a full time job can be lower than what is needed to live is a bit iffy and jewish from the get go eh.
>>531870205>unions threatening people with scabs*grabs popcorn*
>>5318703011. Boomers are a very small part of the labor force at this point. Most are on their death bed and the others retiring.2. They won't fucking change lolWith the Teamsters, our Gen X steward sold out our pension (with him grandfathered in, of course). The job is too laborous for boomers, 100% of those voting in favor were Gen X or younger. He then immediately quit and was hired as a non-Union supervisor for the same company.He now works to destroy the Union through any means possible, including forging documents to get us fired.
>>531863564Unions are like those stupid multi-level marketing pyramid scheme companies. Non-union jobs suck too.
how do I scab for these fuckers? I have a 4 year business degree (accounting) and fucking hate my job and am paid shit
Gay reddit post says they will make $21/hr after five years lol. An assistant manager at McDonalds makes more than that with full benefits and endless access to teenage poon. Why the fuck would you ever do a shit job like an electrician apprentice for five years to make dogshit?
>>531870339>Because they've bought into the hype that trades pay great, which increasingly they don't.That's because of scabs. Anons say lots of stupid shit about this. They will>A. complain that it's too hard to get into a tradeThis is necessary to limit the labor pool and increase wages.>B. complain they don't pay enough to startAnd how much more competition would there be if they DID pay extremely well to start?You can't have your cake and eat it too.>>531870352The Union is not an island. They have to cooperate with businesses and contractors to get work. It's part of negotiation. A company won't want to pay J-man wages to useless fags who wash out and are a net drain. They would rather pay scabs more temporarily. So again, logically, would you rather>make your J-men happy by paying them more, by agreeing to lower rates for apprentices with the companiesor>make SPECIFICALLY the apprentices who AREN'T hungry, who want high pay NOW, and contribute little/nothing comparatively?Think about this.
>>531869913>Free healthcareIt's not free healthcare though.Not the topic of this debate, but I don't want an employer stealing 1/4 of my earnings to hand to an insurance corp and pension fund investment groups when I can't afford a roof over my head or a means to make it to work.>And it has been repeated numerous times with no response:>-New apprentices are not only useless but actively dangerous to everyone around them>- Many will washout thus being a complete black hole to everyone around themIt must be you repeating it because OP already mentioned his union's apprenticeship expecting prior experience.It's also very rare for union apprenticeships in my area to accept someone without prior experience or relevant technical school diploma/degree, with the exception of DEI tokens.>How would you justify paying them generous wages when they are a net drain, when they won't even complete the apprenticeship? Don't strawman me on this, please examine this logically and tell me how that's a good deal.Something like $25-30 an hour isn't generous.It's a living wage and their companies are likely billing $50/hr+ for their work as an apprentice.
>>531870924>It's not free healthcare though.It's completely free.> I don't want an employer stealing 1/4 of my earnings to hand to an insurance corp and pension fund investment groupsHoly shit that's a retarded statement. Feel free to go non-Union, make literally 1/2-1/3, receive little/no healthcare, and no pension.You must be LARPing. You don't know what you're talking about.
>>531863564Anon, if all you can do about getting illegally fucked over is piss and moan on /pol/, unironically kill yourself.Get the apprentices together and break some fucking kneecaps the night before the vote. Take what you want from those geriatric fucks.
>>531871001It isn't. It's the same garbage private sector has. Pay is usually better, you aren't sitting around waiting for work and don't get locked into an apprentice scam where you're hazed til you wash out. Don't be a delusional tardo.
>>531870924>Something like $25-30 an hour isn't generous.>It's a living wageI think that's debatable. You can't have a reasonable place to live and clean food for a family for $25 an hour. It's possible a "subsistence wage" in that you can survive as an incel globohomo pod person on it, but I wouldn't really call that "life" by any reasonable definition.
>>531871245You are factually wrong on all bases.
>>531871001I was in a union and they took healthcare and pension out of my gross earnings, you numbnuts.There is no such thing as free healthcare.>Feel free to go non-Union, make literally 1/2-1/3, receive little/no healthcare, and no pension.I did. I quit a non-union job to enter an apprenticeship and couldn't afford my (already meager) living expenses on the 1st year apprentice wages after going from $20/hr to $15. And that was a decade ago. $17/hr now would be equivalent to ~$12/hr back then.You sound like a boomer PR shill trying to justify poverty wages for apprentices.
>>531871293And you're an MLM fraudster. When I hear apprentices having to go out and coldcall places for work when they're literally not supposed to, I know the system is bullshit.
>>531871329>I was in a union and they took healthcare and pension out of my gross earningsYou weren't in the IBEW. We are talking about the IBEW. "Union" is not a universal term. There is no such thing as "The Union" is a governing body. There are many different Unions and their usefulness differs. >I quit a non-union jobI know you did. The anti-Union retards who couldn't make the cut make up 100% of the posters of your variety.I don't give a shit about whatever podump union you were apart of. Especially if you're a Southerner. IBEW Electricians consistently make double/triple non-Union electricians doign the exact same job.>boomer PRLiteral LLM-tier.
>>531863564LOL @ union retardYou think the union is there to protect you. Akshually it's just there to steal your money to give it to literal Mafia kleptocrats who funnel part of it to Democrats so the Democrats can steal elections.
>>531863564You mean the entire American economy is built on scams and the "trust us bro" from corporations was meaningless?
>>531871449You've still failed to explain how the healthcare is "free."The doctors and nurses work pro-bono for union members?I'm not anti-union. I had to make the choice between being homeless on first year apprentice wages or going back to my old job.I'm telling you the podump union I was in had their apprentice wages set to almost as much as the prestigious IBEW local OP is in a decade ago and it wasn't enough for a single man living alone to survive on.
>>531871778>You've still failed to explain how the healthcare is "free."It meansA. You need a bandaidYou pay $0B. You get cancer and the bill is $1,000,000You pay $0And no, this isn't somehow worse than being non-Union, having shit insurance that pays maybe 50% and you go bankrupt.It also has nothing to do with your fantasy of>wow but imagine how much more I could make if I could opt out of insurance!
>>531871449Reading through this thread with your posts you sound like a massive yankee faggot and nepo union baby… Let me guess your dad was some mid-high ranking union person in whatever pyramid scheme union you belong to. Let me guess you’re a some faggot who walks around like boomers with support the troops shirts and hats on talking about your union and convincing people to come to the local 321 gay bbq cookout or they won’t get promoted.
>>531865392Get cancer and die boomer
>>531871857>wow but imagine how much more I could make if I could opt out of insurance!It matters when the company is billing $50/hr for your work and you aren't earning enough for a roof over your head and decent food.I would tell you to shove the insurance up your ass.
Not surprised at all.t. Frens with people in the know.
>>531871914>massive yankee faggotNope.>nepo union babyNope.>your dadNope.>you’re a some faggot who walks around like boomers with support the troops shirts and hats on talking about your unionNah but why is that a bad thing exactly? Should I be a blue-haired troon?>won’t get promotedJob and payscale is 100% merit. You cannot get 'promoted' by sucking off the boss (which we don't have) even if you wanted to. This applies only to non-Union. I would suggest you and the anon above you accept that you missed the boat and stop lashing out over missed opportunities. I'm not your punching doll nor your therapist.
>>531871943>>531871857But of course, the young healthy guys need to pool their money to pay for egregiously overpriced healthcare for fat greasy boomers.
Also anon, take the agent 47 pill and cease all communication after this thread or anything that can be identified to you.Come back in two weeks when it goes to the national news, also consider recording if your boomer laws allow you to record boomers without their written consent.>now paying attention to the matter.We need to rip power from these boomer fucks by any and all means necessary, total war against the boomer, total class war against the boomer.
>>531871943>It matters when the company is billing $50/hr for your workAgain, you can feel free to remain non-Union (as you will, because you're angry you didn't make it and want to take out this anger on me), and receive poor pay, no benefits, maybe a 401k if you're lucky.I will continue making triple what you do AND receive all of that ontop.
>>531872015>Job and payscale is 100% merit. You cannot get 'promoted' by sucking off the boss (which we don't have) even if you wanted to. This applies only to non-Union.Okay, now I know you're trolling.Merit must mean how many certifications you hold in your book, not skill or quality of work. Do you earn piecemeal?
>>531864287Die jamboy
This entire thread makes me glad I went into healthcare.
>>531872081Literally this.Thats the boomer fair and square deal, we all ate shit and in exchange we would one day get to hold the whip hand over others.As someone who spent 15 years chasing the carrot and got the chair kicked out of my at every chance by boomer fucks who stood around and chirped about the hard work lie, I fully support you sliting their throats and taking them out at the knees.Boomers in my old folks firm handshake province are trying to go for pensions for life at the expense of young folks, this shit is real anons.>having their pensions adjusted for inflation and making young folks pay for it.
>>531864460Only in under capitalism though, especially burger land. They are trying to bait people to leave the union through this and undermine it by making non-union work more incentivizing.
>>531872015>>531872015LOL I inherited a commercial real estate development company with commercial/multifamily/mixed use holdings and I actually despise and actively avoid having to deal with union faggots on new developments.
>>531872145Dont worry anon,Some of us have "the phone"And are getting paid to read this thread.>you know.
>>531872210So a literal nepo baby that accused me of being what you are?
>>531869267Its nice to be in a sour containment and your airhand falls asleep right? Or equally stupid life endangering shit because nobody followed a speed limit, and you rollover with 4 or 5 dudesRiiight>vaxxed>masksNever
>>531872198Because under communism they would be shot as a counter rev.
>>531872196>mfw I hear "I wish I made $20/hr when I was your age 30 years ago" for the hundredth time
>>531871259When my grandfather died, I went through all his papers. He was a very meticulous man, so he had saved pretty much everything like receipts, pay checks, budgets etc. from his entire adult life.He worked as a carpenter in the capital city here during the 1960s. After taxes he had about $150 left. A ridiculous sum today of course. However. He rented a three bedroom apartment, which cost him $10. He had a stay at home wife, and two kids, who he fed and clothed for like $80 a month. He spent like $10 a month on gas. The rest he saved for things like appliances, vacations and so on.So in the 1960s, as a lowly carpenter here you could rent a roomy place for a family of four in a nice neighborhood (comparatively to today), you could have a stay at home wife and kids, you could eat high quality organic meat and dairy, drive around as much as you wanted, basically have everything you need, for like 2/3 of your salary, so you had enough to put away some savings. I know the situation was similar in the US at that time.Then I hear boomer bullshit like... $25 an hour is a "livable wage." No, it's not a livable wage. At $25 an hour today you're going to live in a horrid little incel shitbox in a borderline ghetto, you're going to eat disgusting processed slurry that will make you severely ill over the years, and you can fucking forget about having a stay at home wife and kids that live in any sort of decent standard.Try $100 an hour maybe, that would maybe be a "livable wage."
2029(13) will be the year of the pillowHave faith anons and be ready to do the needfulMercy be damned
>>531872341It takes one to know one, just by the way you talk it’s glaringly obvious… The difference is my line of work is capitalism approach, whereas yours is more rooted in communism.
>>531871857Bullshit. What the fuck nonsense is that? You have a deductible and premiums and all that other bullshit like every other wage slave in this country. Why are you outright lying you deranged retard? Not even Medicare boomers pay zero for shit. Fucking Christ.
>>531872467Nobody is going to care when it's starve or eat
>>531872467I represent the working-class white manYou are a hypocrite who represents crony capitalism (judaism).
>>531864460Generation Zyklon are "union curious" right now but they will become full Nazi.
>>531872081>more nonsense Do you even check your "pensions?" If they are not annuity pensions, they're basically a 401k if not one outright disguised to scam you.
>>531872524>You have a deductible and premiumsAgain, I will re-iterate since you are especially slow.>There is no "The Union">each Union is an individual entity with differing benefits, rules, payThe fact that I have to reiterate that this -- the IBEW -- Is what we are discussing, and that indeed, this IBEW does provide free healthcare, points towards the reason you're angry. Go get drunk and abuse your wife, non-Union tradie.
>>531872758I don't fucking believe you.
>>531872717Why is "pension" in quotes. You doubt their existence? Perhaps you are Jewish.The only purpose of your post is>A. coping that you don't have a pension>B. trying to throw shade on the strength/validity of the pension to A. cope
>become tradie, university is for stupid sheeple>thread relatedEvery fucking time. As tradie you are literal human resource to be used, abused and discarded.
>>531872860As if the situation is any better for white collar wagecucks these days, kek.
>>531872196At some point what do they even need the money for? All they do is rot in the sofa and watch tv all day.They don't even help their own kids, even sandniggers do this
>>531866895That sounds great. How do I get a job like that?
>>531869212>I always wonder how long a union like that can survive before the "not grandfathered in people" are 51% and decide the union is totally worthless?Because they will become the 51% the very first chance they get because no one has principles
>>531873009the principle is self-interest, the only fair and honest oneEventually the system will buckle and self-interest will mean violence
>>531866499Worked well for Microsoft and Boeing didn't it
>>531866537Uhhh, that's because BC means Barony of China.
>>531872374Revolting from what? Unions are state own and regulated. And workers don't pull from their paycheck for the union, the CEO has to pay the union from his own profits, at least 20% to 15% is the rate in China and most everyone is unionized. Unions in burgerland are pure shit but it's better than having nothing and just getting even more cucked in the future.
>>531872971Gambling, vacations, giving it away to niggers etc.
>>531873055I don't know what point you're trying to make beyond a desire to see young guys eat shit for 5 years.
>>531869272Thanks, Randall.
>>531863564>collect union dues>not allowed to votehow exactly is that legal?
>>531873372There would be nothing wrong with paying apprentices pocket money if apprenticeships started at 12. Then they could start earning a proper wage at 18.It's a huge problem if a guy in his early 20s is supposed to earn pocket money for 5 years. That means he's unable to start a family until he's in his 30s.
>>531873372cope
>>531863564It is not a war until bodies get droppedFigure out the key leaders and put some work inSimple as
>>531865727When I worked as a tile installer our union fucked us too, and told us we could strike, but nobody would and that any bitching wouldn't do anything. They cut and fucked a bunch of our benefits, because one of the other unions said they were more important than the tile guys. I ended up doing everything I could not to join it, and my boss kept pressing me to join it, because in order to work on certain awul job sites I had to be in the union, but if I joined they were going to cut my wages and expect me to give union dues while working $15 an hour. I was busting my ass for this job and it eventually fucked up my back permanently. I left and got a job working at a movie theater and made $16 an hour there being an usher, coasting thru an easy work day with no back pain.
>>531873293It's just...so sad man.
>>531872357Please just use a translation app, you unintelligible Québécois wang.
>>531864614This is a mcdicks wage lol
>>531873514>There are Union electricians out there right now making $90/hr (all OT is doubletime), $22/hr into the pension, free healthcare, a month paid vacation, and $22/hr into a non-taxable healthcare fund (should you decide to fuck off for months/years).>That's right. They are making 5x what you make doing the same thing as a base. Congratulations on being a scab. At least you made $4 more/hr during your would-be apprenticeship years :) A got-mine boomer expecting young guys to totally eat shit for 5 years, when the boomer was earning nearly the same wage during his apprenticeship 30 years ago.Did I call it, or what?>>531873480Agreed.
>>531874112cope
I was IBEW and they went through something similar in 2006, the company had everyone spooked if they didn’t than everyone would lose their jobs. It was a little before my time but basically anyone hired before 2006 gets payed 6-10 dollars an hour less less for the same positions. Basically voted to fuck over all future employees permanently to hold on to boomer pay for a decade or two longer before they all get fired and replaced by lower payscale workers. People like my dad will defend that vote relentlessly with reasoning such as “my generation works harder” when really they abuse every rule of the union and their boomer connections to get out of doing as much work as humanly possible
>>531866503Why the fuck would you let a union tell you how much you can earn, while paying them for this?
fuck a union. You can do anything a union man can do and profit twice for half the price ya dumb bitch. Just go to fucking college for a technical degree and start an llc and don't fall for the union bullshit ever again. get your own retirement plan, insurance, license, and invest you fucking brainless sheep. fucking ponzi scheme rube motherfuckers.
>>531874795because if you don't, your boss will tell you how much you can earn and it'll be a fraction of what the Union will get you.
>>531875043>You can do anything a union man can do and profit twice for half the priceThere is not a single trade where union worker make less than non-union.
>>531875084>There is not a single trade where union worker make less than non-union.By average or median salary?
>>531875084Hasn't it already been established in this thread that your apprentices live like banana plantation nigger slaves for years and years?
>>531875190If you it's like here 60% DNC because of how bullshit it is.
>>531875236If it's like here, even 100% of DNC isn't enough to live a decent life.
>>531875065I got my first real job at 18, in 2001.I turned down the offer to join the union and chose to be contractual instead, because the way the union guy was explaining it sounded like a retarded scam.They terminated my contract 8 months later, paid me a cancellation fee that covered 2 weeks pay, and I got a new job that paid better three days later, contractual again. I'm 43 now and I have done this my entire life. Looking at these pay scales, I have already earned more money, that I keep all to myself(minus the govt's cut of course), than the union guys will make in their whole career.
>>531875190Non-union often pays significantly less than union to start. In shitholes like OP, they pay about $2-$3 more an hour to start.At J-man level, which is only a 4 year investment, the earning potential is double, sometimes triple or more. You earn back your entire sacrifice in pay in a few months. Only idiots are anti-Union.
sole trader sparky that would NEVER touch union bullshit, I make more money in a quarter than most unionised sparkies make in a year because I'm not a lazy dope smoking retard or maori. be good at your job, talk to your fucking client and show up on time and you'd be amazed by how many contracts you get with no boomer cunt stealing your money. problem is 90% of cunts going into trades are genuinely worthless retards incapable of learning a skill.
>>531875298>I have already earned more money, that I keep all to myself(minus the govt's cut of course), than the union guys will make in their whole career.That is flat-out wrong. Guys like >>531868263are making over half a mil each year. This is not uncommon.Non-Union you'll never crack 120k without overtime. Refer to >>531875307You make a literally infinitesimally small sacrifice to start (you actually still earn more with bennies) in raw pay. After that you make way more.Most guys, even fuckup drunks will retire millionaires. From the pension alone.
>>531875286DNC meaning 'does not complete', as in they fuck off.
>>531875380>I make more money in a quarterYou make 500k a year? Please provide evidence matching >>531868263
>>531875307Yeah, I'm not against unions. But the unions have really dropped the ball a long time ago. Pay needs to be seriously updated to reflect the times we live in. All unions, in fact all workers, need to stop working now, until the trillionaire moneybags that run our soicieties start paying decent wages again.
>>531875385Ah, I assumed it was the median wage or something. I see.
>>531875475Yeah nah I was lazy throwing an acronym, but yeah in NZ we have a bit over half of apprentices leave it. It's fucked here.
>>531875460>But the unions have really dropped the ball a long time agoThe thing is. All this anti-Union talk is just noise.>Unions have non-Union beat in every single sector. It's not a fluke, it's by design: That's the point of Unions.So every time you see an anti-Union post, there are REALLY only four possibilities>they're jewish>they're sour grapes because they missed the boat (majority of this thread)>they're stupid>they're uninformedThe first 3 is just retardation. The fourth is the only acceptable opinion.
>>531875084Well you are wrong. An independent contractor in my state makes well above union pay. If you work alone or with one other person you don't have to purchase their workers comp ins. many states require a bond paid to the state to be held in escrow for licensing. my state does not require this. In fact the insurance you purchase is all you really need to subcontract anyway do you technically dont have to have license you just cant pull permits or do multiple parts of the job with inhouse electricians or concrete guys yadda yadda. The last job I did I charged $18,642.97materials were about 3k I finished in 4 days and I worked alone. I shake union pay off the end of my dick when I am done pissing bud. There is a union here but it is isolated to a couple cities in my state. And they do commercial work mainly.
>>531875417aussie. shan't bother given your replies seem to just be "cope" and an inability to comprehend that different locales have different unions and different markets. unions are worthless in aussie unless you're desperate to get on massive public welfare projects building tunnels and overpasses. we have plenty of chinkjeets to fleece and no spics to compete with.
>>531875554Saying the unions aren't doing enough and aren't using their leverage to the degree they should isn't "anti-union talk." It's the most pro-union position you can have.
>>531875554>All this anti-Union talk is just noise.Is it anti-Union when it's complaining how the union doesn't represent the interests of all members equally?
>>531875534Well, here too, people rather go on welfare. Why work all day for pocket money along imported strangers you have nothing in common with, when you can sit and smoke weed all day and make almost as much.
>>531875660It's not even welfare that often, it's go to Uni, retail or Australia. You got to resit TAFE qualification in Oz anyway.
>>531875562>An independent contractor in my state makes well above union pay.I don't see any evidence posted. I've posted plenty of my case ITT.>>531875574>shan't bother given your repliesSo you don't make near what Union guys do, just like the anon also coping above me.>>531875603I agree. Unions should be doing more to fight for pay for the newer guys, in spite of them mostly being useless and dropping out, being a net drain.But the concept that you're going to do better non-Union, when they fare worse in literally every single metric is retardation.>>531875622That's not what's being discussed. I am talking to the sour grapes tards who are angry they didn't get in. So they cope pretending being at-will slaves is better.
>>531875562I should clarify I own an LLC I am not an employee or a worker. I work for myself. like everyone should.
Why work in the trades when you can SHIT your BRIEFS?I mean F U C KI made 2 million an hour SHITTING my FUCKING BRIEFS LMAOPTTTTTTTTTTT
>>531875701Perpetual university (which most young people do) on student loans is just a type of welfare, kicking the can down the road.
>>531875722>That's not what's being discussed.What? That's literally the OP.
>>531875746We've moved long past the OP's discussion. Keep up newfag
>>531875722I prefer anonymity and I dont feel like screen capturing work orders and scribbling out the names and contact info. guess youll have to just not believe me I dont give a fuck Im a grown man I dont have pick me girl energy to waste. I just calls it hows i sees it boss. have fun sucking union cock till they steal your pension and leave you fucked. dont follow my advice dont start a business of your own keep doing what youre doing bud. hope it works out for ya.
>>531875796>We've moved long past the OP's discussion.No? The fuck are you on about?
>>531875722>But the concept that you're going to do better non-Union, when they fare worse in literally every single metric is retardation.Doesn't really matter. If scabs are so prevalent that the union can't leverage real power against the moneybags because of them... then the union is just a petty beggar org, who fights for tiny inconsequential privileges in competition with scabs. That's not really a proper union by any labor movement type definition in my book.Unions are 100% dependent on actually managing to corner the labor market in their niche, if they're not able to do this then they have no real function. So what do you do if that's not the state of affairs? Well, either you have to fire the scabs up with labor movement ideology, or you need to break some kneecaps etc.
>>531873009How will they fuck over the new members when everything they have was bargained away so the boomers could have just a tiny bit more for just a tiny bit longer?All the "bargaining" seems to benefit the old timers, and will NEVER benefit the people who are new today, (not even in 20 years).
I moved from a non union state to a union state and I noticed some major difs. 1. small businesses were nonexistant and discouraged through a bonding system that tied to licensing.2. new startups were discouraged through a requirement that they be sponsored3. pay was less but cost of living was doublebuilding there was a nightmare. shoddy shit work I was aghast by it really. what a shithole. im glad to be back home where money flows for the little guy.
>>531875820>I prefer anonymityAKA You're lying>I dont give a fuckYou sound extremely insecure>>531875825Scabs are poor retards.
>>531875952Sounds like you moved from the Midwest to a brown shithole and used that as one last straw to grasp for shitting on Unions.
>>531876131you are someone who obviously never sat behind a project managers desk before. you uave no idea how stupid you look right now. Do you not understand how the business works and the amount of money that exchanges hands? Are you a clown?
>>531876131>Scabs are poor retards.Well, if your union is actually effective, then you should all get together now and go on a big strike until you get paid a non-insulting wage for your labor. Demand $50 an hour for your apprentices, $100 for journeymen, and $150 for masters. The quadrillionaire jews who siphon up 99% of the money in soiciety can take the hit of that just fine, when this cost is filtered up to them.
>>531876170Not telling you where I moved to or from you dumb beaner
>531876207You're cut off from (You)s until you provide proof, thank you.>>531876230The situation in OP is the exception, not the norm. >>531876259Why are all anti-Union shills filled with such hatred?Good God dude all we want is fair pay and good treatment.
>>531876342>The situation in OP is the exception, not the norm.You're not getting what I'm saying. You might certainly be correct that you get paid more than the other fag in your union job. But your pay regardless of that is way too low.
>>531876476I would always appreciate making more money, but we are well-paid. We aren't parasites, anon. We work hard for our money. We built this country and the middle class, regardless of what these shills say.
