>yeah the revolution is gonna happen in an industrial country like Britain or Germany or however the cholent is stewed
>>531988967Marx was nearly as retarded as the that jewish nigger Lassalle
>>531988967Why are you anti communist?I mean, I am not communist but I am not viscerally anti communist.Their criticism of capitalism is quite useful even if they can't really build anything better.
>>531988969I have no problems with critiques of capitalism, I just don’t like Marxoids
>>531988967Marx was a NEETmaxxing, rottmaxxing, gooner pilled gigachadChuds stay seething
>>531988972He also hated jews
>>531988973So... fvcking... based....
>>531988973>>531988972And was gay with Engels
>>531988975Wasnt Engels a raging gay basher? Pretty sure I read somewhere that he thought homosexuality was a capitalist conspiracy or something
>>531988973It’s pure self hatred, similar to Weininger.
>>531988967>be born into a wealthy family of lawyers>marry the daughter of a wealthy aristocrat >somehow still manage to fuck it all up and die in debilitating poverty because your philosophy doesn't allow collaboration with the bourgeoisie even though your sugar daddy/best friend Engels is literally bourgeois himselfUnironically what was his problem? Was it autism?
>>531988969communists destroyed my country and killed millions
>>531988977>picWTF?! I LOVE MARX NOW!
>>531988978He did all for the clout and he won. We're still talking about this NEET philosopher.
>>531988978jewish schizophrenia
>>531988969Having strong feelings about communism in today's world usually means you're terminally online or otherwise spend too much time in fringe political debates with other freaks. Communism has no political relevance in today's world, it's globally recognized to be a failed experiment that was based on a good idea or two. Today's nominally communist countries like China and Vietnam have much higher income inequality than capitalist Western Europe.
>>531988982Common in Israel?
>>531988978Engels bankrolled him, he was involved with some youth group called Young Hegelians like 3 years before meeting Marx. The movement had little to do with Hegel they were actually more in line with Rosseau, despite claiming the name Hegel their main intent was initially focused on destroying religious institutions.
>>531988969Communism is objectively evil and has only ever lead to misery, suffering, oppression and failure. Sure there are legitimate criticisms that can be made of capitalism, however communism is infinitely worse by every metric.
>>531988967I meanin asia and souf america it was an anti colonial movement and in russia it was ??? but basicaly it was because they were poor and in a similar state as colonised cuntsso you could argue it wasnt a real communism
>>531988983Western Europe is communist albeit
>>531988969Regardless of what it originally was, communism has memed itself into becoming synonymous with "I hate these select few white majority countries" and many modern day communists especially love to say that the USA (but also Australia, Canada, etc) are these irredeemably illegitimate evil countries built on colonised land hence it's incompatible with patriotism or pride in the (English speaking) cultures of these states
>>531988977>>531988973Geez. Growing up Lutheran really did a number on him.
>>531988969Because gommunism makes people starve like in Cubazuela o algo
>>531988986This. Also capitalism has killed more people than communism so it's yet another defeat for communism.
>>531988986capitalism is better than communism as presenting itself as innocent or even benevolent while it's causing all kinds of disastersdon't be this naive
>>531988967The revolution must be an international domino effect of proletarians organizing industrially and acting independently of any nation-state. We must seize the means of our production, not the machinery of oppression, and to confine the socialist project to one nation--a sheep surrounded by capitalist wolves--is a proven path to destruction.
>>531988986Marxism Leninism (which is what everybody is talking about when they say communism) is a form of capitalism akin to social democracy tho, notice how that revisionist falsifier Stalin said socialism could exist alongside commodity production? Marx explicitly stated the opposite, and exactly as predicted Stalin essentially created a new bourgeoisie. Every “socialist state” (with the exceptions of the USSR prior to about 1929 and the Paris Commune) have been larping capitalist states with red flags and hammers and sickles.Communism is bad because it’s materialist, denies God, and gets anthropology wrong, not because it’s wrong about the evils of capitalism
>>531988969Communists refuse to shut the fuck up and move on so they still need to get told to be less annoying.>>531988968Read any account from the time.Lasalle was a cool guy everybody liked while Marx was a two-faced resentful fag who had autistic fits over the slightest disagreements.
>>531988990I think it’s just a German Jewish thing, Kissinger also made similar remarks
>>531988986communism has never been achieved
The reality is that Marxism was a weird fringe within the circles of Socialist thought in the 19th century. The only reason it is relevant today and people have come to believe that Marx invented socialism is purely thanks to the Russian revolution.Marx hated Proudhon, hated Mazzini, hated Lasalle, hated every contemporary German philosopher, hated anarchists, etc.Everybody else more or less got along despite disagreements. Marx hilariously acted like a character in an Ayn Rand novel, being uncompromising to the point of claiming that political action aimed at achieving pro-worker reform was le bad because it meant recognizing the legitimacy of bourgeois democracy. An armed revolution that either fails catastrophically or wins and ends up killing millions was much better to him.
>>531988997It was because at the time European Jews were splitting between Zionism and anti-nationalism, Marx was firmly in the latter camp and dealing with them (including “socialist” ones like Moses Hess and most early zionists) cemented his position
>>531988978he was a man with unwavering ideals, you wouldn't get it
>>531988999>marx didn’t like the capitalists who called themselves socialists and wanted to uphold the capitalist status quoYeah bro it’s not like no matter what consolidation, the tendency for the rate of profit to decline, and the crises inherent to capitalism inevitably lead to worse conditions for working people no matter what, Marx was silly not to just embrace nice capitalism™
>>531988984I met a few
>>531989003
>>531989002Jeets posting under my flag have zero reading comprehension, it's baffling from people that allegedly understand English.
>>531989002Compare the welfare of working people in socialdemocratic Western Europe vs Marxist Eastern Europe during the 20th century and rope yourself.Communism failed, the sooner you accept it the sooner you can move on to a political ideology that is achievable without torching down half the country.
>>531989002>the tendency for the rate of profit to declineIt doesnt , marxists have been saying this for well over 100 years now >and the crises inherent to capitalism Like?>inevitably lead to worse conditions for working people no matter whatIt doesnt. The HDI of capitalist countries always increases which is why the liberalization reforms of Deng were so successful in China and the technological advancements that occur in industrialized capitalist systems always benefit mankind as a whole. Privately owned markets and market economies are a good thing
>>531989007Wow you're evil.I just came in this thread, how do these boots taste fellow capitalists?
>>531989007can't have infinite growth on a finite planet, it's just sillybirth rates, population growth, pensions are doomed to fail because grow can't go on forever, it's a failed system
How the fuck do 95% of all the posts ITT talk shit about left-wing ideas? like where's your humanity bro?
>>531989010In the last couple of years there has been a massive increase in retarded off-putting tankies on the English side of the internet. Nobody wants to associate with the left wing tranny versions of chuds.
>>531989008>just came in this threadYou slut, pull out next time >>531989009Capitalism isnt actually based on infinite growth its just a system of private property ownership. Having state or cooperatively owned economy doesnt negate the need for growth and development but theyre not based around a concept of "infinite growth" either. >birth rates, population growth, pensions are doomed to fail because grow can't go on forever, it'sAll of those are a lot more complex than capitalism or the private sector being the fault and are occurring in mixed economies anyways
>>531988969Who's they? The workers who built everything?
>>531988985>he was involved with some youth group called Young HegeliansLmao, this retard thinks the young hegelians were like al-qaeda or something
>>531988986>legitimate criticisms that can be made of capitalismLike that it leads to misery, suffering, oppression and failure?
>>531989007>It doesnt , marxists have been saying this for well over 100 years nowThe rate of profit declining is the one aspect of Marxian economics (not to be confused with Marxism outright) that is empirically true.Profit trends only go short-term positive due to new productive technologies that revitalise existing finite markets. This is a strength of capitalism but the flaw remains.This guy >>531989009 said it right.
>>531989010Do you know what website you're on, idiot? This is *the* mainstream internet hub for right wing nerds nowadays
>>531989002not gonna get too involved in this thread, but using retirement age as your example here is retarded. It's an inevitable consequence of low birth rates (which ALWAYS correlates with educated women, i.e it happens in Communist societies too), no alternative to capitalism has a solution for the retirement age problem either because it's simply a problem of manpower drying up in general
>>531989016>rate of profit declining is the one aspect of Marxian economics (not to be confused with Marxism outright) that is empirically true.Its not. Again marxian economists were saying this over 100 years ago and its never been true. Their is a tendency for *rates* of profit to decline over time due to competition, automation, and overhead costs increasing overtime but they arent constants for all markets which innovate, change, spring into existence and are subject to the inevitable chaos that complex systems have to go through to maintain themselves. There is no inevitable constant decline in profit for all systems in a private market.
>>531988969Communism is fundamentally retarded. A literal religion, complete with its own prophets and prophecy.>the history of the world is exactly like Marx said it was>if you disagree, you need to read more theory>we'll have a worldwide worker's revolution any day now, just you wait>when the communists take over, we'll have utopia>when we don't have utopia, it wasn't real communismRapture for libtards.
>>531989015>capitalism leads to misery, suffering, oppression and failureCapitalist societies are the ones who made slavery obsolete and created abolitionism. Misery, suffering, oppression and failure are constants of the human condition that no economic system will ever alleviate. As long as any system is made up of humans all of those conditions will exist and are inevitable.
anyone got some good yaoi Marx/Engels recs?
>>531988983>Today's nominally communist countries like China and Vietnam have much higher income inequality than capitalist Western Europe.barely
>>531989020I wouldn't say it's for libtards considering that they weren't particularly fond of liberalism as a whole, but in abstract it does look like a Lutheran reformist's wet dream. It's eschatological with a utopia perpetually in the future, it's scripture based except they call their scripture praxis, works righteous and common good are nearly identical concepts. The only reason Marxism isn't called a religion is because it considers itself materialistic, otherwise it fills out every criteria. The saving grace for Marxism were the least Marxist additions to communism like 5 year plans or the gosplan, this was the only reason it was able to operate on a systemic level.
>>531988976He thought most things were a capitalist conspiracy. Like the idea of families.
>>531989019This isn't a thing for you to debate over. It's just an empirically observable econometrics fact.>they arent constantsNobody said it was a constant decline. Missed The Point award.
>>531989025I remember hearing somewhere that Kibbutz children are all very mentally ill because of the communal parenting
>>531988969>I am not communist but I am not viscerally anti communist.If you are pro-democracy you must be.
>>531988969Don't like how it reduces everything to material. Literally any ideal is down to material conditions and people being or becoming better isn't important, its just the mindless scientific inevitability that things will play out a certain way. Literally the antithesis to the idea of humanity, in fact its goal is to outmode humanity.
>>531989026>nobody said that Ahem>the tendency for the rate of profit to decline, and the crises inherent to capitalism inevitably lead to worse conditions for working people no matter what, That does imply a constant. But I assume youre gonna be as obtuse as possible
>>531989030All implications are your own, schizo. Literally nothing in that statement implies a constant decline. By the way you implied that I have a bigger penis than you.
>>531989031There we go with the obtuseness
>>531989019>Their is a tendency for *rates* of profit to decline over time due to competition, automation, and overhead costs increasing overtime but they arent constants for all markets which innovate, change, spring into existence and are subject to the inevitable chaos that complex systems have to go through to maintain themselves.I agree but this works until it doesn't. We as a species rode the 20th century in the back some of some quite very lucky innovations, such as chemical fertilizers, plastics, transistors, green revolution, the internet...But innovations dry out. And when that fails, growth stops and everything gets fucked upLike today. If AI is a sham then we're all collectively fucked
>>531989032Accepting your ESL interpretation of some leafjeet's post would be actual obtuseness.All beside the fact anyway, the rate of profit has been decreasing over time, just not at a constant.
>>531989006Not a communist, I’m not a materialist or an atheist nor do I support socialism, but if your idea is socialism is Eastern Europe during the Cold War then you’re way off. Eastern Europe wasn’t Marxist, they were capitalist states larping after Stalin’s revisionism, Marxism-Leninism is a sham, it’s not socialism at all. Look into ultraleftism if you want to understand Marx, 99% of the “””socialists””” you talk to are liberals or tankies (ie liberals)
>>531989021>Te-hee, it’s your destiny to suffer a life of pauperism. Try not being born a subhuman in the next life. Now back to your cagie, wageslave #235023>*Blows cigar smoke in your face*
>>531989034>the rate of profit has been decreasing over time, just not at a constantAnon do you not know what a constant in this context is? That is just cute. You are implying a constant trend my dude. Profitability decreasing over time would be an example of a constant trend even if the rate of the rate of decreasing or individual points of increase were to occur
>>531989033>But innovations dry outYeah thays what people keep saying until we innovate something new again that rapidly shifts the way we organize society again. >If AI is a sham then we're all collectively fuckedWell not all of us lol. I dont think eveey economy is that dependant on AI yet. But who knows, people said that movies and the internet would be fads as well.
>>531989036Said the Politiburo bureaucratic to soviet gopnik #112736375
I think communism is retarded but the sort of person that spends hours online debunking it is also retardedcommunists are a complete non entity, they're arguably a boon for the right because they turn normal people away from leftism and start petty little fights between each other to keep the left perma irrelevant
>>531988999There were several other attempted revolutions around the same time as the russian one. Otherwise I agree with you.
>>531989037Holy shit, I finally understand what your issue actually is. You seem to think a consistent trend must imply linearity. LOLAmericans, please fund your schools... this is grim.
>>531989042>must imply linearity >mustNo thats just what YOU are implying whether you understand the mathematics of that or not
>>531989003I am checking them, but I am not respecting them.
>>531989043I explicitly said it is not the case in this post >>531989016. There is no implicit "anything". I was very explicit about this.
>>531988967Nobody cares about Marx anymore, Zoomer Marxism ascended and mogged the need for him (i.e. retarded anti-trotskyists are unironically going to take power in this country in the next few decades and it'll be an unmitigated disaster
>>531988994World revolution is considered passé by your average broccoli-haired 21st century theorist
>>531989045>Profit trends only go short-term positive due to new productive technologies that revitalise existing finite markets. So if theyre only short term positive then theyre long term...?And if theres a long term trend we can map we call that a...?
>>531989048This conversation has degenerated into tautologies. We're like two LLMs proooompting each other.
>>531989048>>531989049
>>531989023Western world's high income inequality: Usually from these countries having megarich multibillionairesDeveloping world's high income inequality: From having a really, extremely poor low class
>>531989052I wonder if he ever realized the irony of calling someone else a Jewish nigger.
>>531989020is your libtard derangement syndrome so terminal that you don't realize these are opposing worldviews?
>>531989025The other way around.
>>531988973Many Chuds cant/wont see/admit it, but Marx was basically the left wing version of Bobby Fischer, before Bobby Fischer himself was even born.
>>531989052>>531989053>Ashkenazis call each other black>meanwhile Italians pretend to be white despite looking the exact same
>>531988972literally me
>>531989046>Peter Thiel, Ayatollah Khomeini, Ayn Rand, Stalin and Robert E. Lee on the same sideWhat the fuck am I looking at? What is this braindead meme ideology?
>>531989016Wauw, if you remove key part of Capitalist system .... it doesn't le work??
>>531988989That's not why they hate America though. You're just making up stuff.
>>531989059It's a meme, you dip
>>531989021>Capitalist societies are the ones who made slavery obsolete and created abolitionismAfter being built by slavery and colonialism
>>531988967Capitalism's greatest victory is convincing everyone that being stuck in a long 19th century world is actually a good thing(tm); I mean that as in Imperial forever wars, interventions, entrenched social stratification, ravaging nature as much as possible and thirdies taking it on the chin etc...Thank goodness Communism (China) offers a ray of hope of a world beyond those constraints and vile logics disproving end of history chuds.
>>531989019>and its never been trueIt is actually economics 101 in every academic institution.
>>531988967how come many commies come from rich families? fidel castro was th same, I think there is a point where you get bourgeois fatigue and decide to become socialist
>>531989035>true communism has never been tried, actually
>>531988983Western Europe is hardly capitalist, neither is America considering the insane socialist protections the banks and corporations enjoy.
>>531989066Out of touch with reality, so they use their resources to push their autism on peopke who don't want it
>>531989063>After being built by slavery and colonialismSo like every human society until capitalism banned it. Interesting.
>>531989065Yourr confusing the law of diminishing returns with the marxist concept that profit is finite. Yes there is a difference, no i dont expect you understand how.
>>531988967Crapitalists are mentally ill.
>>531989072
>>531989073All me!
>>531988967>>531988977he really told goyim about everything and they still manage to get duped into getting their jobs shipped overseas and into being replaced by immigrant hordes
>>531988967I mean it could have but Britain had a (fairly) liberal democracy and important reforms were made throughout the 19th and 20th centuries
>>531989013Manual labourers build things mot bourgeois architects and engineers! Its the simple clod carrier that built notre dame
>>531989073All me too!
>>531989074>>531989078Samefag!
>>531989079>Samefag!Damn, nailed it again!
>>531989077Well that's just idiotic to say
>>531989046Well why not just some other form of capitalist managment unbothered by ideological constraints? I mean no, democrats will rule usa and republicans will get their shot at power whenever democrats become to rigid for the new social circumstances, so they will reform while in opposition and win the next elections. All this fantasizing about usa being a third world country that gets guerilla toppling the state( every single instance of communism coming to power besides paris commune) is cringe and this phenomenon is really reactionary
>westoids commies
>>531989077What's the difference between a stonemason and an architect, apart from the stonemason coming from a working-class background and the architect coming from a bourgeois background? It's terrible because you say that the bourgeois is justified by some divine magic in being superior to the guy who does the manual labour.
>>531988973antisemitism was widespread in that era, doesn't make marx special
>>531989010Left-wing ideas are vastly different in politics vs theory, as everywhere else, furthermore the mainstream is just geniunely retarded.If you can't argue on the monetary policies and the axiomas of the neoliberalism you shouldn't even bother.
>>531988977>uhhh yeah jews might be selfish and only care about money but actually the goyim is also selfish, they're not better for inventing civilisation, everything in history is about money and everyone is selfish, take that
>>531989084>What's the difference Their abilities and skills regarding architecture and stonemasonry to start. Then the personal and professional responsibility and risk they take on when designing buildings. Stonemasons are not responsible for the overall safety and integrity of a building (barring extreme circumstances like sabotage), whereas it is the architects duty to only sign off on designs that are safe and feasible. What a brain dead question. Are Marxists really unable to comprehend this basic hierarchy of risk and responsibility?
>>5319890842 completely different things? Are you retarded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S11eaDesKLAit works in practice but it doesn't work in theory
>>531989057Bro brought up Italians out of no where lol obsessed jeet
>>531988969>revolution happens and we kill all the elite money hoarding pedophiles and seize the means of production>the only thing left between us and true gommunism is for the leaders of the movement who now hold all the power to dismantle their militia and willingly step downits that second step that gets you.
>>531988967It did happen. It was just brutally crushed.I also don't think he predicted fascism which was capitalism saving itself.
