Was it Hitler or his generals that caused the string of losses following 1942?I've heard people say Adolf Hitler was a bumbling baffoon when it came to strategy, and yet I've also heard it repeatedly claimed that it was actually the men under Hitler that were incompetent and covered for their mistakes post-war by blaming it all on mustache man instead of their own actions...I know certain National Socialists post-war felt compelled to create lies about Hitler to get in the good graces of the West (Albert Speer for instance, the leading architect of Germany, felt that he had to deny his obvious involvements and create some post-war lies)I know for sure he wasn't as cruel and ruthless as he should've been in order to assure victory, since there were tonnes upon tonnes of Tabun and Sarin merve gasses in Germany which no one knew about until the war was over.
Would've posted in /his/, but they're suffering from Hitler fatigue and Hitler exhaustion
>>532706748probably a mix of both
Hitler was a soldier and a politician. He wasnt however sadly, a can-do-it-all-god. It is often noted that he had a very stringent and highly pragmatic sense of warfare, and understood logistics. But you can only do so much if the men who follow under you are inherently at best moderately competent. I'm not a historian of large scale WW2 theater events, I personalize in political study and characters of interest, so don't quote me, but to say he struggled with insubordination is an unfair understatement. I've read some books, a long time ago so names escape me, but you can find material out there that correlates with my points, that mention his constant frustration with others inability to obey direct offers given, especially in times of extreme uncertainty. Hitler understood to win wars, one must struggle and extol confidence in those efforts, never retreating unless faced within unsalvageable odds; a phyrric victory is always favourable to outright defeat, especially if it drains your enemy. Every day has to be fought as if it was the last day, and being reliant on good luck and random chance is a poor tool of design. However, many of his generals were capable, but some were brazenly stupid. Others were just arrogant and looking for a way to have personal elavation, because apparently being fully unaware of the consequences of world Judaism gives you some kind of highly insufferable know-it-all indignation. "The Fox", Ernst Rommel, was one such man. You have to really ask how someone in his position didn't understand the racial demographic & intellectual threat the Jews and their allies posed to Deutschland and their allies and would hold weird resentment against him. In my opinion him being in Africa was a massive waste of skill and practical effort, he should have been leading the Eastern Front, with a different general aiding Mussolini in bottlenecking Africa and security aid to deny Americans a stable foothold in the middle-east, unfortunately.
Everyone made mistakes but ultimately leaders are also responsible for their subordinates. Generals at Nuremberg however blamed everything on him to save their reputations, so his "babbling buffoon" reputation is certainly nowhere near reality. Skorzeny said he thought Hitler's personal decisions saved the war from ending years earlier and saved the army from collapsing entirely after the tide turned. In my opinion, Hitler's main mistakes were >Underestimating the Soviet regime (planning for a shorter war and not having the capability to properly equip soldiers)>Overestimating the honor and sanity of Britain's leadership (expecting them to see reason and being generally more amicable toward them than anyone should be to a nation waging war against you)>Failing to realize Goring's incompetence and leaving him in charge of the air force for so longWhen you consider the circumstances of the war and how Germany had to wage it while infested with traitors, it seems like a miracle they lasted as long as they did. But actually it's a testament to the efficacy of National Socialist policies.
In the end, something's what Hitler should have done:>Take all of the UK, hold it at ransom as a bargaining chip, deposing Churchill and having him publicly executed, the British monarch made to cooperate>Offer beneficial agreements with Ireland and Scotland to help maintain control over the UK in exchange for demands they could set the terms for, as compensation for their past woes with the UK. No one has forgotten that crap they had to endure.>The oilfields of Europe was top priority, and focusing as a critical objective point that could not be ignored was fundemental to success. Even the massive mobile battle fortress they designed could jahe been a reality had they managed to secure and hold onto the oilfields, creating a bastion that Russia couldn't break. And with proper air defenses, nothing could have. >Forced Japan to deal with China and Russia first, not attack America. Japan would have been far better off, all things considered. A war on two fronts isn't within reason. >Should've come to terms with using biological weapons. Sadly, he felt such a thing was abhorrent. I fully understand, but we are now living in a jew's world. We showed mercy to the guilty, thus showing cruelty to the innocent.
>>532708384Truth, based.
>>532706748The Downfall movie depiction of Hitler is based on the testinomy of the Nazi generals. They have zero incentive to not deface Shitler
>>532706748Hitler lost the minute he declared war on the Soviets, but for argument's sake I'll say that the only time they had a shred of hope to secure a strategic victory was prior to Stalingrad, so my answer is the same as "who is most deserving of blame for how that shit show turned out?", and the answer is that I blame the Romanians, Generals and Hitler on a 20/40/40 split.
>>532706748The generals were a bunch of niggers
>>532706748Hitler was a genius in all matters but even he could not fight a war against 3 superpowers with a country whose population wasn't even 100 million. His only mistake was not doing what he wanted initially in Barbarossa which was to spearhead his infantry towards the Caucasus rather than the three point pincer attack against Moscow. By the time he realized his mistake tthe German army was already running on fumes. Other than that Germany's success is all reliant on him.>>532708793No, it isn't. It's based on Traudl's book along with a lot of embellishments (such as the nonsensical screaming when she has said repeatedly that Hitler was melancholic and reserved at that period).
I recently started reading a book written by Marshal Wilhelm Keitel while he was imprisoned in Nuremberg awaiting his death sentence. In it, he describes how his family were Frisians—Eastern Frisians. They were Aryans, which is true and has been confirmed by DNA research—the Frisians are the most Aryan of all Europeans. What a fucking asshole dares to claim they were wrong? Stupid Polacks, Mongol Russians, and traitorous American dogs. Germany wanted to bring order to Europe—it was stopped by the Mongol-Tatar Russians and by the American brothers who helped the Russian Mongols defeat the Aryan Germans. They were racists but they weren’t liars, and the harshest truth about our DNA is better than the sweetest lie. It's a shame it didn't work out. Rest in peace, heroes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuwvE80wQak
>>532706748It was Halder, the retard thought Rhzev which was in the middle of bumfuck nowhere was a more important place to reinforce then the transport hub which bared Stalins name itself, by the time they tried to make up for the mistake America had already invaded Italy.
I've always noticed that the Kiev flanking manuever he made by moving the bulk of Army Group Centre was actually a strategically sound decision. The OKW wanted to press onto Moscow, but Hitler (rightly) believed the salient around Kiev posed a mortal danger to the advance on Moscow. Army Group South had experienced more resistance, and had slowed down. Anyway, long story short, Hitler was not an idiot. The decision to break off the advance on Moscow prematurely was entirely sound and based on the best information that was provided to him. If Hitler hadn't have made that call, the Germans would've likely experienced an even worse disaster outside of Moscow.
>>532708809You're retarded to blame romanian because we were the reason the Axis made it as far as it did in the first place.Without Romanian oil and 1 million men in the field (more than all the other axis and allied countries combined) plus opening a southern front ww2 would've been over by 1943 at the latest.Now tell me, what are the reasons for the failure of the Axis so overwhelming on Romania in your opinion?
>>532706748Well, you see, the problem with nazis was, they were retarded. They believed their own propaganda. Just like UKRO nazis believed their in 2023, when they thought because a Leo tank was driving towards a so called subhuman position, the subhumans would just scater or vanish or something. But the reality is, you can't be a nation of 80 million people and invade a country of 200 million (soviet union) + a country of 42 million (france) and a country of 49 million (great britain) and also declare war on a country of 130 million (USA). The nazis were dumb retards and destroyed the German nation, which they supposedly loved and cherished so much. And now Germany is turko-arab moslem state where the indigenous population is slaving away so the moslems can live on gibs.
>>532706748There was nothing that they could have done better, they lost because their horse driven army was too small to conquer Russia. Hitler said himself that he wouldn't have attacked if he knew what the Soviets were preparing for him.You can try to make the point that the biggest Hitler's blunder was splitting his Army Group South to simultaneously capture Stalingrad and the oil fields, but even this decision had solid grounds as the Soviets were avoiding large battles at that point (while building reinforcements) so a large concentration of German troops would be wasted anyway. It was being wasted. Whatever the Germans could came up with since 1942 the Red Army would have countered.I actually like Hitler's military decisions. Germans were just too weak.
>>532706748They were all kinda shit.Really, if you read about ww2 in depth you will realize that not only it is retarded that the war happened in the first place, but that it should have never been more than a quick crisis. The Germans gor extremely fucking lucky at multiple times at the start and that, combined with France fumbling the bag even though the german attack was exactly what they had been predicting since ww1, made the war turn global and caused the german generals to think all of them were the second coming of Napoleon.Had the Germans gotten a bit less lucky or France held better, the war would have ended with the western front in stalemate and germany either peacing out and getting a slice of poland plus what they had or straight up doing an ubcobditional surrender depending on how their dealings with the USSR played out.The ww2 we got is easily one of the most retarded chains of events we've ever gotten.
>>532709289He is blaming the Romanians because they and the Italians were holding the flanks around the 6th Army at Stalingrad. Operation Uranus broke through both the Romanians and Italians with fairly shocking speed.On paper, they appeared to be formidable, but both of their armies were woefully undersupplied or had inadequate experience to hold back the advance.So, they were not responsible in the sense of Romanian leaders making decisions, but because their army was not sufficiently powerful enough to stop the worst German defeat of the entire war at Stalingrad.
>>532706748One was a retard for strategically ally planning to invade the USSR,The generals were retard for believing that a victory was possible. They indeed blame him for ideals that he just validate
>>532709377>Hitler said himself that he wouldn't have attacked if he knew what the Soviets were preparing for him.Nigga are you retarded? He said the exact opposite. Hitler attacked the Soviets because they knew they were preparing to invade sooner rather than later and he had to deal with the problem while he still could.>>532709504>He is blaming the Romanians because they and the Italians were holding the flanks around the 6th Army at Stalingrad. Operation Uranus broke through both the Romanians and Italians with fairly shocking speed.Actually, the Romanians performed exceedingly well. It was the Hungarians and Italians who shit the bed. But they were also very unequipped and lightly armored to hold for long.
>>532709289I'm accurately assigning the blame. If you weren't under supplied and just generally given too much responsibility by the Germans it would increase to around 70.I don't blame the Italians because the Germans were retarded to trust those incompetent morons.>We contributed oil, another front, and more manpowerExcellent, strategically vital, unironically more trouble than it was worth since you couldn't supply those men properly, and as you found out, neither could the Germans.>>532709504Yeah pretty much.
>>532706748Hitler was second generation JewAnarcho-liberal Naive Liberal artist Sort of Clown as Zelensky!Tool in USA hands to strip Great Britain from position of world Empire WWII goal!Fucktards !You are all brain dead if you are not able to see this...
>>532706748Hitler is a retard and massively overrated, I don’t get the obsession over him really other than he had cool outfits so that the lowest common denominator could go>WOOOW THEY LOOK SO COOL YO OMGOSH HEIL!!!pick a better warlord who actually won and could use diplomacy to his advantage
>>532709029>Eastern FrisiansWhen I searched this on google images I would've recoiled back and be sent onto my ass if it wasn't for the fact that I was leaning against a wall. Never saw a group of young maidens more fair and beautiful than such. God bless them, truly
>>532709938>pick a better warlord who actually won and could use diplomacy to his advantageIt's about porinciples, jew. Not who won or who lost. Am I supposed to hate Caesar because he got killed by a bunch of degenerate greedy senators?
>>532709851They even adopt Bellamy salute!!!!!!Bellamy Salute was used from the 1890s until 1942.!!!
>>532706748german's spy and intel game fucked it up. also shit allies.
>>532708384>Overestimating the honor and sanity of Britain's leadership (expecting them to see reason and being generally more amicable toward them than anyone should be to a nation waging war against you)Ultimately, what even was Britain's goal in the war? Before the germans took over, it was the ussr them and france were gearing up against only to change focus to Germany after hitler took over and started annexing stuff. Unless they seriously thought that Germany and the USSR would remain allies, it shouldn't have mattered much whether germany returned to being a major power. They were not a credible naval threat and their economy and industry wouldn't have been in any position to become one any time soon unless they really stuck to their alliance with the soviets. Maybe hindsight is 20/20, but Britain should have probably thrown poland under the bus and drawn the line at denmark and norway. The frogs would have been assblasted about it but that's it. I xan understand why they entered at the start since on paper it should have been an easy war as long as France held, but suiciding their empire by staying at war after the fall of France was a almost a Trump-Iran tier decision that turned them into maybe the biggest losers out of the major players of the war (Germany's aftermath was obviously much worse but so was their initial position. The Bongs fell from heaven).Honestly pretty much everything that happened in Europe from the fall of the Tsardom in ww1 to the end of the USSR was fucking Looney Toons levels of silly. Historians in the far future are going to think half the shit that happened is probably exaggerated or made up.
>>532710087Stupid nigger, the Nazi salute has nothing to do with the Bellamy gay shit. Bellamy salute is palm upwards, towards the flag, fingers curled.The Nazi salute comes from the Roman salute in the French painting which was also practiced by the French somewhat, especially under Napoleon who also based his empire on Rome. Mussolini also did his own spin on it, again basing it on Rome.
>>532706748>Was it Hitler or his generals that caused the string of losses following 1942?Both -- Their "plan was to fight WW1 over again. To stike quick as to pivot and fight a two front war ( win and then fight Russia who mobilizes much slower ) they had no plans beyond 200 miles from their own borders.They had no interest in 4 engine long range bombers till late in the war.They mad no move to have remote bases to re-arm and refuel Uboats, until they were on the back foot and had to do it by submarines.Their tanks had to undergo heavy maintenance at the factories that built them. They even struggled to bomb england , from France.They had no plans beyond winning the war with France and it showed
>>532709938It is worst than that!He is literal tool in USA hand!USA back in 30's was like China todayBut worse !They need strip GB from World empire position!That is why they Strike Poland and then turn Against GB !GB was Main goal for USA!!!GB destroyed to point when USA jump as savior!!!Take position of World empire and help Survive Britain!!!Germany loose free from USA chain attack Russia !End of the sorry!!!Bad Germany destroyed by Russia ....
>>532709546The thing is that they qere kind of doomed to go against the USSR at some point because the USSR was getting too strong, and they knew their industry wouldn't be able to keep up.Germany as a great power was kind of a doomed nation from the start because of having formed so late and depending on others for resources so much. It's the same thing that happened to Japan (and also Italy, but italy was never in danger nor was it as powerful, so they didn't sperg out as hard).The only real shot they had at establishijg a more sustainable position was when the 2nd reich was at its peak, but diplomacy never went their way and they ended up stuck with two functionally defunct empires being its only major allies, though I think that, had they waited instead of joining ww1, they could have plausibly become allies of convenience with the british against the Russians once the Austrian empire imploded, though it would still have been hard because of british being spooked by the imperial german navy.
>>532710310The war was essentially capitalists vs labourCommunists ironically, sided with capitalists. That's because jewish communism is always just roundabout capitalism. Same results, slightly different means.The whole point of the war was to prevent germany's economic system from expanding. They did away with usury, switched from printing fiat currency to a sort of 'labor-debt' where the economy grew based on labor, not on capital - no printing because you can't print labor. To grow the economy you need to actually produce and work.Completely killed the whole slave labor graft the capitalists and communists had going, which is why every single capitalist and communist country teamed up against hitler. Now you can easily understand, britains goal in the war was to stop germany's economic system. It had nought to do with much else than that.
Hitler made really bad decisions. Which is typical of the way democracy elevates some guy from the public who has great speaking ability to be over top of generals who have spent decades evaluating different countries' threat levels and capacities. Hitler was an amateur. Hitler knew that if he didn't get into a state of emergency he would get coup'd out of power eventually. Hence, he kept on gambling by creating worse and worse situations. The ultimate proof is that if Hitler had just waited 10 years Britain would have lost India and gotten bogged down in African colonial conflicts. Same with France. That is the reason why for both countries they didn't fight against Germany in 1939. The people didn't want to die again like WW1 and the governments didn't want to go bankrupt and lose their empires. All Hitler had to do was occupy Poland and sit tight, or not invade Poland and sit tight, and watch while Britain and France got bogged down in a million colonial conflicts. But Hitler greatly overestimated the capabilities of Germany, and he needed war in order to maintain domestic control, so he started war after war after war.
>>53270674839 AH responsible for going into war without means to end it really (no strat. weapons to reach Britain, lame tactical airforce) or really being prepared for it (low stockpiles of oil, resources, basically robbing conquered countries to fuel itself hand to mouth); brickmanshiped West will do shit and lost41 brickmanshiped USSR fall will make Britain sue for peace or he get resources to wage long war (see 39); declared war against USA (that already involved itself in war against nazi even militarly) in hope Japan will help with Soviets and to allow legal fire back at USA (war he had no hopes to win without navy, airforce, or at least reliable ICBM tier rocket with some WMD - chemical one was available, but had bias against as was gassed in ww1)so failed as leaderbut now generals - looked down as corporal despite being fuhrer, fucking primadonnas openly disobeying orders like Guderian going for blitz not having fuel during Barbarossa or Rommel going for advance not having fuel and been ordered to hold; most will try to blame others for own failures like Manstein; Red and Black Orchestra; some guys were unsuitable retards like Udet failing pilot program so late war Germany has plenty planes, still some fuel, but teenage green pilots (AH joked about Keitel (IIRC) he's general of artillery yet knows shit about artillery mistaking hardware); botched intelligence gathering in preparation for Barbarossa - underestimated mobilization pools, amount of forces (admitted byHitler in talk with Mannerheim on tape), unresearched logistic troubles - like simple shit russian train coal was unsuitable for german locomotives as too low caloric, had to be saoked in oil;1942 already in attrition war, overstretched, so tired soldiers died on spot from it; should pull head from ass and either go for Caucas oil or to cut it at Stalingrad; instead went for both; Paulus greedy for promotion allowed himself to be trapped knowing it's traptl;dr; both failed, both guilty
>>532710401Yeah ..Yeah... They... USA using it for 52 years but suddenly stop using it because Germans adopted it.!!!Do you even understand that majority of white Americans are German heritage !Do You?Go Google Heritage of USA!Fucktard!!!
>>532708384>Skorzeny saidhe worked later with Mossad
>>532706748It was martin bormannHe kept hitler isolated from real world by controlling flow of information and acces to the fuhrer
>>532709851>>532710087>>532710923>>532711241Good morning good saar, how are yoo to-deeh?Please do the bloody needful and come see me in supervisor office after lunch break ok, vee must speak to you about performance improvement plan Rakesh, your shill posts are getting ridiculously bad, if you don't put in more effort vee vill replace you with an AI chatbot programmed by Sukdeep Dikshit from Uttar Pradesh here
>>532710310We must recognize that the very sequence of events leading up to the outbreak of war was something the Party leadership had not anticipated. As Göring himself stated at the Nuremberg Trials, Germany’s objective had always been the East—specifically the grain-producing regions of Ukraine—and the outbreak of war was attributable to Chamberlain’s reckless guarantee of independence and Poland’s stance of resistance.In other words, the policy of appeasement was working. Its purpose was to give Germany a free hand in the East and, by provoking a decisive battle between the Soviet Union and Germany, to constrain both military powers within the “curtain belt.” Based on this understanding, Japan viewed the Axis Alliance as an evolution of the Japan-Germany Anti-Comintern Pact, and the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact led to the collapse of the Japanese cabinet at the time. It was also around this time that the Kwantung Army in Manchuria found itself cut off from support, and military action against China began to be considered. This was reaffirmed even by the Treaty of Versailles, which permanently prohibited territorial changes along the western border—that is, in the Alsace region—but did not explicitly prohibit the renegotiation of borders in the east. Furthermore, Hitler was mindful of the political situation in Britain; his demands regarding Poland were limited to the transfer of the Danzig Corridor to international administration, and he even accepted Poland’s access to the Baltic Sea.The guarantee of independence was intended solely to deter Germany from launching a full-scale invasion of Poland—just as it had been done with Czechoslovakia.
>>532711619However, the Social Democratic government ruling Poland at the time interpreted this as a declaration of intent by Britain and France to repel any German attack on two fronts should war break out, and decided to cling fanatically to Danzig—a city of the Germanic people since the Teutonic Knights’ subjugation of the Prussians. The Empire could not retreat without losing face.Of course, one can also discern a strange design in the chain of events linking these factors: the thread of Versailles, the repeated slanderous propaganda against Germany, the “central bank of central banks” that made reparations payments possible, and the territorial issues created by the Allied Powers themselves (the slogan of the Treaty of Versailles was, literally, “national self-determination” lol)—all of which led to Germany being declared a threat to the world.
>>532706810I wonder why.
>>532711476What?You have ben woke to the fact that Hitler was second class Jew Or you are offended to be compared to silly Zelenski?WHAT?Yeah !!!You Have no clue!!!
>>532709504Romania had a 1:5 disadvantage in numbers of troops and 1:10 disadvantage in tanks and 1:20 in aircraft.It was a miracle the Axis made it this far and it was a miracle it kept fighting for another 2 years.It was the maximum that could be achieved.
>>532710310>Ultimately, what even was Britain's goal in the war?Preventing a continental hegemony.Same goal as every other european war they fought since the hundred year war. If Hitler didn't understand that he was terminally stupid.
>>532711086Then why was there a cold war afterwards? Why was the Munich agreement signed? Why did Hitler take so much money from investment bankers to fund his war? I know your reply will be a low IQ one, just thought I'd ask anyway.
>>53271175114:30 CET. Office 54. Bring your laptop, Rakesh. Susan from HR and supervisor Juán Alfonso Gomez Rodriguez de la Cabeza will also be there. And wash your nasty brown hands before you touch the door handle.
>>532709790And here lies the problem. It was a desperate attempt to prevent the taludisc satanism of today.Germany with Hungary, Italy, Romania, Slovakia and Croatia were no match to the forces of the jews.Sadly as it was and regardless of the price we had to pay, it was all worth it.Not many countries had the balls to invade the soviet union and be in a war against the British Empire, the US, and Soviet Union, on horseback and on foot.
>>532711086War was humanity vs subhumans. People vs ratpeople. Good vs evil.Nazis were the subhuman, the ratperson, the evil.
>>532711241>They... USA using it for 52 years but suddenly stop using it because Germans adopted it.!!!Germans didn't adopt shit, the Roman salute was used in European cultures before the US even existed. You can find pictures of Napoleon doing it and old Roman statues which the whole thing was based off on.
>>532708505Germany was never in a position to take the UK. The Royal Navy was vastly superior to the German Navy so an invasion was just not possible. One of the biggest factors for Hitler's erraticness and indecision was that he let his doctors turn him into a dope fiend. He as regularly using meth, coke, and opiates.
