Here is a reading group to answer that question, exploring key texts from Hegel, Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao. This week the reading is Hegel's The Science of Logic, section one.Chapter one: Being>Being>nothingness>becomingChapter two: determinate being>determinate being as such>finititude>infinityChapter three: being-for-self>being-for-self as such>the One and the Many>Repulsion and AttractionSister /lit/ thread with links to reading>>>/lit/25214473
jews think they have the right to not be beaten for publishings denigrative of western languages which has escalated to the letter of the law
Marx is a complete waste of time. It’s just a seething Jew using a capitalism for the working class to stick it to Western bourgeois who were everything he wished he was. Capital is riddled with logical contradictions, non-sequiturs, and blatantly wrong math. Lenin is useful to understand praxis. Stalin and Mao are complete wastes of time. The only idea in Hegel that matters is the idea of human freedom unfolding through time via the state. The teleology of Hegelianism that leads to political theories such as fascism is the only important part.
>>533325318Very powerful, interesting and original opinions you have there. I am furiously recording them in my notebook as examples of clear and logical thinking.
Marx was just en employee of the british elites, both industrialists and royalty. The context was that elites in the 1840s were terrified of the french revolution and the associated wars that followed it.The manifesto was published in 1848, same year of the socialist revolutions, all of which called for wealth redistribution through taxation, social programs and a national government to replace international noble houses.Communism was meant to be a dead end psyop to defame people that wanted better economic conditions as different sorts of monsters.>Hehe you want clean food, you also want to abolish the family eh?
>>533326176Improvement for conditions among the working class everywhere came directly out communism and the international
>>533324853Sounds like midwit crap, as above so below yea we know.
>>533326492Turning Point USA coming in hot
Basically communism is based on philosophy, which does not have any sort of scientific basis. It's mostly a system of 'dueling beards' where one old man debates another and the winner is decided by how impressive his beard looks.To attempt to replicate some scientific processes, they tried to develop this stuff called dialectics. A way, supposedly, of hashing out the truth through a systematic, rigorous process of debate. But unlike science, they are not doing any measurement of the real world. So once again we're back to square one. Now it's not just which beard is more impressive, but who can speak in a more charismatic or tricky way.
>>533326726Dialectics in Marxism isn't Socratic dialectic. It is a form of process philosophyMarxism is, at the very least, as scientific as economics or any studies used for social policy. Marx's Capital, especially with all the volumes, is crammed with empirical data and records
>>533326448Sure, its mostly out of fear. While the atrocities were meant to scare normies, they actually only scare the rich.
>>533324853>Humans are flawed>Their logic is flawed>Two competing ideologies can have their truth extracted and inaccuracies discarded and you will arrive at a higher truth>Of course completely relying on the individual's own biases It's like elementary school level reasoning
>>533326986There were countless armed conflicts between striking laborers and the police and the laborers all had more-or-less socialist sympathies or outright party affiliation. Marx didn't give lectures at universities, he gave them to proles
>>533327140This is more Socratic dialectic than Hegelian or Marxist dialectic
>>533327194Something that's not talked about with Marx is that socialism was already sweeping into Germany before he created Marxism.
Bump
>>533327241Is it I wouldn't know. When I read hegel it sounds like basic reasoning to me.
>>533324853Dia - GoddessLectics - Tictac Sized LecturesEverything about leftism is feminine.You are about to find out.A Terrible Truth.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSEVw7ei3YU
>>533326564Copy and paste that from your "spicy bants".txt?
>>533327255Why do you say that when a large portion of Marx's writing is talking about prior theories of socialism? Marx was asked by the socialist-labor congress to write them a manifesto but most of what he does is not a platform, he writes about why capitalism is neurotic and damaging
>>533324853>tl;dr It's gay
don't expect this low iq board to do anything but rant about brown people, women and jews right wingers are anti-intellectual and they are proud of it
>>533327312What have you read by Hegel?>>533327391Kek the point was you copied your post from Pragerbants
>>533327448Marxism is a machine to kill capitalism it isn't a machine to create communism because it fails to actually diagnose the problems with central banking
>>533327514>PragerYUCK!
>>533327512Humans in general are due to labor alienation. Actually thinking feels uncomfortable and unpleasant because it undermines ideology. No man wants to crush the fantasy in his sense of self and believe he has more in common with other wageslaves than with some non-wageslave individualist hero or even non-wageslave individualist anti-hero or villain
>>533327656Marxism critiques money itself at length as well as interest and debt. It does posit money as an important advancement but also one which is obsolete but is kept around because of the class that lives by finance
>>533327757Odd that communism 100% ignores the crux of liberalism's existence as an opposing force to centralized banking and tyranny
>>533327834If you mean classical liberalism, it can't survive on its own because unions would eviscerate it without powerful laws limiting the contracts allowed between unions and business owners. Classical liberalism only works with strong laws against unions, or slave-based agricultural economies. Slave owners do tend to find themselves at odds with central banks because central bans benefit industrial entrepreneurs and finance capitalists. But slave owners themselves are no friends of labor, the very reason they have slaves is because free white workers cost too much and require decent treatment. So they chose slaves, which keeps the wages down for free whites
>>533328084Well Marx is assuming you want to be the English empire and assuming there is something beyond that intangibly that he is aiming for. That's a lot of assumptions on his part
>>533328530Rather a lot of assumptions on your part
>>533328726Not really. Stalin is a good example of Marxism. Or China. Have you seen Chinese state propaganda? "We will steal all your intellectual property and make it in our slave factories built in our planned cities, all your base are belong to us"Pretty funny
>>533328876Stalin turned Russia from a wartorn, agricultural backwater into an industrializes global power that became the first state to put a man in spaceAme
>>533329059Yes. Russia was about to become an imperial powerhouse and the British probably psyopped them to death and sent their ninjas after them. Then stalin came in and cleaned house
>>533329173Russia lost against JAPAN. Be real
>>533329353Yes the Japanese intelligence trained by the British
>>533329398In the Russo-Japanese war?
>>533329455Yup. They were basically paying people to convince other people run into Russian soldiers and die to get them to withdraw from the war. It's the same tactics the communists used in both revolutions. Basically just kill as many people as possible, innocents preferably.
>>533324853Hegelian dialectics is essentially the study of the evolution of ideas in relation to one another. It is idealist.Marxist dialectics is the opposite. It is the study of how material conditions and human ideas influence each other to evolve. It is materialist in a way but also idealist in that marxism believes the two worldviews to be a false dichotomy - both perspectives are also in direct relation.
>>533325720He didn't reason anything he just made a claim. His post didnt contain a single argument for why it should be true. You are a fucking moron and will believe moronic things if this is not immediately obvious to you. Likely this is consensus cracking attempt via small discord though
>>533329610I have been drinking so I can't tell if this is cope so concentrated it could be a chemical element, or you are just a blatherskite with schizoid personality disorder and therefore condemned to use 4chan as an outlet
>>533329819I was being sarcastic, little buddy. Have a beer and have sex
>>533329916I'm pretty sure it was the black dragon society? Maybe a precursor, definitely Japanese intelligence, almost 100% likely getting tips from the British. But they paid that priest gapon or whatever his name was to march on the tsar's house which I'm pretty sure is cited as the event that fucked everything for them
>>533327512>Marxism is intellectualWhy is a private central bank a tenant of marxism? Why does marx write that 'western central bankers' will finance the revolution? Why did jacob schiff, a rothschild agent, do exactly that?
>>533325318>T. Never even looked into it
>>533324853>communist propaganda wordDisregarded post
>>533330113Marx said "it will fail eventually", so that is between now and eventually.
>itt: two discord trannies post at each other to bump limit>their IDs are even tranny colored
>>533327656Does it really 'kill capitalism' if it equilibrate to a private central bank in control of the nation? Stalin went rogue but there we two control mechanisms tested, direct tyrannical control and puppet tyrannical control. The puppet control was more effective economically and practically. You could, for example with trump, force the puppet to do unpopular things and since "its only temporary" it makes tyranny "only temporary". So you walk two steps forward, one step back, until girls gave dicks and murder is healthcare.Capitalism fails to address private central banking, which in practice is where power lies, save for direct violence against it.
>>533327140>It's like elementary school level reasoningWhat are the higher levels of reasoning?
>>533324853https://dialectics4kids.org/
>>533330002I assume communists raids to be 90iq troon raids, as the estrogen lowers it by a standard deviation.
Fact that conservatives always lose in the end is because they are literal retards. They are unable to think and create ideas in their heads. This is why they always need a leader to lead them. This is why they always need "God" to show them the way. This is why they always need religion to "be" moral. Whole world will become Communist. It is inevitable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fopyyYbSvuQ
Its post nut clarity
>>533330460I dont know. 5th dimensional reasoning
>>533330549Trannyism comes from the new left>In the United States, the CIA, through the Congress for Cultural Freedom, funded various intellectuals, cultural organizations and magazines affiliated with the New Left that championed anti-communist ideas and Western values.[7][8][9][10]>It consisted of activists in the Western world who, in reaction to the era's liberal establishment, campaigned for freer lifestyles on a broad range of social issues such as feminism, gay rights, drug policy reforms, and gender relations.[1] The New Left differs from the traditional left in that it tended to acknowledge the struggle for various forms of social justice, whereas previous movements prioritized explicitly economic goals.>Some who self-identified as "New Left"[5] rejected involvement with the labor movement and Marxism's historical theory of class struggle;[6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left
>>533326448Nah, it came from a scaling of the use of hydrocarbons. Cheap energy = better material conditions.>>533327362Schopenhauer was the better German philosopher.
>>533330788Your post implies that there are better, more advanced forms of reasoning. Can you say what they are or give examples of them?
>>533330804Its jews
>>533330955>Schopenhauer was the better German philosopher.He was definitely the better writer.
>>533330961Well the CIA was not mostly Jewish at that time
>>533330956Or hegel is fundamental reasoning you develop in like elementary school. Or is every person a programmable golem that believes whatever the next person tells them
>>533330955>you are a miserable wage slave because>not because you are a wage slave, but because that'a life for ya, just accept it and wage slave awayI don't think so
>>533330804Yep, confirmed discord trannies.
>>533331152I don't know why mods are so afraid of them. They make the best debate partners
>>533331152Because of pointing out that discord trannies are a psyop?
>>533331067Okay, so it's the only form of reasoning and it's pretty basic stuff, so basic that little children can do it, but most people never even get that far with it and remain in an infantile intellectual state.
Not seeing any good, simple explanations here. The dialectic is the method of changing society by pitting people/ideas against one another to create something new.>Thesis>Antithesis>SynthesisThe way this is achieved is by funding both sides of an idea / conflict and the resolution of the conflict is the idea that they want to achieve. Hitler is a good example. He was funded by Jews to build up an idea that was defeated and the result is the aim of the conflict in the first place, a totally cucked gay lib Germany. It could not have been achieved without Hitler.This is how the Jew operates.
>>533331228As in they aren't real? Yep, you're one of them. Your 90 IQ from estradiol prevents you from realizing how egregiously transparent you are.
>>533331245I think that's more a nature of society than their intellectual ineptitude
>>533331350I didn't say most people were incapable of it. In fact, I specifically said that they don't get very far with it, not that they can't.
>>533331481Every person is capable of their own self development so saying they remain in an infantile state is saying they are incapable of self development which would mean they were retarded
>>533331152>>533330804>>533330549>troonsWe will line up mentally ill Western troons and shoot them first before we shoot capitalist pigsMentally ill liberals will never be communists.
>>533324853To put it in scholarly terms, the dialectic of being / non being is a total dumbfuck moment. It is a category error plain as day. You have to be deceiving yourself to believe it.
>>533331294Dialectic is a form of process philosophy>>533331317I'm sure the shareholders are proud of you and your only regret is that you have but one life to give for them
>>533331591Uh, no. You can be capable of something yet still fail to do it. That's not the same thing as being incapable. You're too silly to bother with anymore.
>>533331119>wage slavery is why I am miserable>please ignore how almost all leaders and upper class people are miserable hedonists too>please ignore that any system will always feature a managerial class>please ignore that sexual selection, the main driving form for complex life, is inherently unfair and will lead to guaranteed suffering as feature of evolution itself, which plays into the managerial systemYou will always be under someone or somethjng else wether its your parents, your boss, your landlord, your commander, our comissar, your apparachink, your Politburo or your own ambition. So long as you have desire, you will suffer. The human condition is to suffer and never be happy. Happiness is and always will be a temporary reprive from the default state. Where I disagree with Schop is that the suffering is meaningless.
>>533331771I believe that is called a misconception
>>533331228Trannies are an outgrowth of the first idpol, which was feminism, an idea Marx and Engels took from Fourier. Leftism has always had idpol.
>>533324853It's a poverty cult and in America "socialists" and all their influencers are more concerned about the Middle East and Muslims than anything actually socialist like healthcare, better wages, labor unionization. They never talk about those things, always the Middle East.
>>533330655Warsaw Pact status?
>>533324853it is jews trying to use language they don't understand like they're casting spells as if it's fucking hoodoo Santeria or Harry Potter.Saved you a ton of reading, though you should do it anyways to laugh at how fucking stupid the 1800s Collectivists really were. All they had to do was look at the goofy-ass 1600s to 1800s small farmer-hippie communes to see why this on a mass scale wouldn't work, because all those ended up in orgies and the members dying or killing each other.of course, because jews are arrogant low-end midwits, they steamrolled over the obvious because they think they can do better than God and nature, even though they live in a world bound by both. Hubris personified, as always.
>>533332179Your timescale is small as your brain. You don't see what's happening in the world right now? You may choose to stay in your bubble but Communism is inevitable.
>>533331769It's not mutually exclusivehttps://youtu.be/SmkhqJ1fhqw?si=Zb5FYzjwpGDE7bVV
>>533331856The master-slave dialectic can absolutely make the master alienated and nihilist. K am a professional gambler myself and therefore a capitalist and it absolutely makes me feel desaturated to spend hours every day studying and doing something which produces nothing for anybody and only transfers the money of others to me. It is absolutely miserable and it is because of capitalismManagement as representatives of labor is quite different from management as representatives f shareholdersSexual selection is not a reductionist explanation for everything or else the elite would have way more children than the poorLife isn't fair is not a catchall justification for this shitty system of labor alienation. I don't expect to make humans identifical or want that, the issue is labor alienation>>533331951Trannies have zero to do with feminism in any sense you mught apply to Engels. Absolutely no relation. Trannies are a reaponse to markets>>533332079America spends as much on their military as the rest of the world combined, please be real
>>533332561No country has been able to make communism work.
>>533332726That's where the good part is. Communism will come to most countries of the world at once. We have the technology, capital and people who knows how they are being abused and oppressed by capitalists. As capitalists and their puppet regimes get more and more greedy and authoritarian people will have only choice to revolt and overthrow them. Who knows, some countries and their people might even join hands and bring back the union of the soviets. Stay tuned! Again, your western brain might not see this right now. You may even confuse communism with liberalism which you have right now. lol
>>533332726Communists are the first people to put a man in space. What do you mean by "work"? Invent netflix?
>>533327255>is that socialism was already sweeping into Germany before he created Marxism.Thats the point. Its a takeover.
>>533332561We all been hearing this since 1910s. Many communist and socialist countries disbanded throughout 1980s and 1990s due to their incompetence, and the last several remaining socialist states have had to switch to back and forth liberal market reforms over and over again. Most of these socialist states today rely on capitalist and western countries. You fags will stay irrelevant forever.
>>533332690There is no master-slave dialectic in the Hegelian sense. Everyone is a slave to desire. You eat and shit not because the haute bourgeoisie commands you to, but because you must in order to continue to live. You gamble (invest) because you chase after something which you will never have.>Management as representatives of labor is quite different from management as representatives f shareholdersThis is the convenient lie the nomenklatura tells themselves and proles to maintain the illusion of fairness in an inherently unfair world. The reality is the nomenklatura lives better than the lower classes, and that is all that matters from a materialistic point of view. It is also worth pointing out that the members of this class are often hereditary, same as any other elite group.>Sexual selection is not a reductionist explanation for everything or else the elite would have way more children than the poorThey often do though. Not sure why younthink otherwise. The elites all have kids, while the increasing mass of poors don't. Its one of the main drivers of the birth rate crash. And "rich" can mean different things in this context. A tall, attractive fascist is rich relative to a short, ugly communist quoting theory all day, at least in this context.>Life isn't fair is not a catchall justification for this shitty system of labor alienation. I don't expect to make humans identifical or want that, the issue is labor alienationMy point is that it doesn't do anything to address the root cause of all suffering.>Trannies have zero to do with feminism in any sense you mught apply to Engels. Absolutely no relation. Trannies are a reaponse to marketsTroonism is an outgrowth of the preferential treatment of females over males in industrialized society. Feminism is upstream of troonism, and Wngels was a major proponent of feminist ideas.
>>533325318Marx isn't sticking it to anyone he was a silver spoon jackass weaponizing the intellectualization of his unemployment.
>>533324853I want to play but first I have to know what 'communism' you are talking about. What specifically it look like?
>>533333182Not have constant consumer goods shortages.
>>533334090you have to give it to the russians to be cucked out of complete industrialization for 30 years, stuffed with "play-doh, the ideology" then cut off from western markets and keeping up the act for so long
>>533333727This like someone robbing you and breaking your legs and say no crime happened because desire is the true criminal and we are all his victims. Very poetic but ultimately.stupid if not satiricalEvery human institution has corruption. Your point is like saying we all die so medicine or health are nonsenseThe poor have loads of kids, loads, many poor men have several babymommas whereas many wealthy families are childless or limited to below replacement birthrateAgain, saying "if it doesn't eliminate suffering" is like saying medicine is bullshit until it cures deathThese are arbitrary terms. Engels and Veblen simply note that the first workers alienated from their means of production are women, and that as Veblen says, all proletariat and subjugated working class, are an outgrowth of primitive women's class which did all manufacture, husbandry, textiles and so one. Proles are economically the same as women in primitive societies
>>533333182While the Soviets were engaging in vanity projects, Sovtransaska truck drivers where importing western goods and selling them on the black market att huge markups like dirty capitalists. You ride in a a bus while the Party man drives a Volga or is driven In a Chaika to represent your interests at the weekly Party meeting.Only under socialism can a truck driver be envied.youtu.be/Nii71hA3_go?si=HHsrCmAA6mcq2YKo
>>533334090Every market has shortages. Capitalism certainly hasn't fixed the teuffle shortage, only made it worse
>>533334496Yes of course that was a problem, the USSR provided free education and production, which was unontainable in capitalist countries, and profiteers went to sell that communal produced good to private interest for a profit. Hence the iron curtain
That nigga Mao spitting facts
>>533334489>Every human institution has corruption. Your point is like saying we all die so medicine or health are nonsenseNot really. I am saying we are exchanging one suffering for another.>The poor have loads of kids, loads, many poor men have several babymommas whereas many wealthy families are childless or limited to below replacement birthrateThe poor don't have loads of kids in industrialized societies, you retard. Look at the collapsing birth rate globally. In industrialized societies, only those rich in sexual, social or economic capital reproduce. If you don't have either, and especially if you are male, you will likely not have children. In fact, leftists consistently argue that more social programs are needed to make children more affordable as part of their fix for the birth rate craah.>all proletariat and subjugated working class, are an outgrowth of primitive women's class which did all manufacture, husbandry, textiles and so one. I would challenge that women did "all the x" in those time periods. I would also argue that what is omitted from this are the male obligations, especially those of the 'disposables", which Engels wouldn't understand considering his background. Males are divided along relationship to the means of reproduction as well as relationship to production itself. Women hold a natural monopoly on this, which is were lots of human conflict comes from.
>>533330070>black dragon societyyou are referring to gen'yosha, which roughly translates to "black ocean society", although I read it more as "primordial abyss society"
>>533324853Bunch of glorified unemployed grifters, nothing more
>>533334580>but the education is FREEIf truck drivers are risking prison for blue jeans and western small electronics, your system is shit.
>>533336511>we are exchanging one mortality for a otherYes it is like saying medicine is uselessGhettos and trailer parks are full of kidsThere is no need to argue because many very primitive societies exist to this day and the men fight wars and hunt, whereas women act as beasts of burden, they make the maskers, they make the garments, they sow and harvest, and so on. Like it or not, a trucker or a freight sailor is nothing but an advanced version of the female beast of burden>>533337131Selling stolen goods will always be risked especially if one feels one can get away with it. I think most truckers in any capitalist society would be happen to traffick in stolen merchandise but they know they have a very high risk of getting caught. No one risked serious prison possibility just for blue jeans if the risk was high, even shoplifters don't expect that (at most s light jail sentence, and not even that) and the image of a communist trucker risking everything for denim clothes is a capitalist conceit, like the man who imagines women would throw everything away to be with him, risk everything, because he is attractive
>>533325318>>533326176Kek mutts and kikes crying for Marx , this is the new rigth >Communism is le bad and jewish soni'll ally with israeleand paise Baal
