In the past, capitalism delivered the goods. To develop a modern society, you had to go capitalist after the feudal stage of history. And letting free markets do their thing enabled industries to develop and ended scarcity in society. No more famines, no more absolute povertyBut things change. Communism in the past only yielded poverty. Capitalism yielded prosperity.Nowadays, capitalism leads to poverty. Absolute poverty is bad with a vengeance in the capitalist countries. Homelessness abounds, there are hungry kids. People die from being unable to afford medical treatment.Meanwhile, communist China has lifted almost a billion people into the middle class, and has lifted all of its 1.4 billion people out of absolute poverty: no hunger, no homelessness. Marx said capitalism was the necessary stage before socialism. The mistake the Soviets made, and Mao too, was to try to jump straight from feudalism to socialism without capitalism in between. China rejected socialism after Mao, went pretty capitalist, delivered the goods, and now with socialism is living very well. The average Chinese now has a better quality of life than the average American: much more economic security, no fear of falling into homelessness. Sure, they don't have giant houses, but a flat that you own is better than no home or any rental. America might do better by switching to socialism now that capitalism has delivered the goods. We let capitalism get to the point where the goods are hoarded by the few, which Marx also said would happen, and that it would take a revolution to stop the hoarding and make ordinary people secure again, able to live life without constant economic worries.What do we have to lose? Our society is awful. Life today is a living hell. We might as well try socialism now. Or we just languish in precarity as things get worse, and worse, and worse, and people grow poorer as the elites grab ever more of the economic pie.
>>533430481>Is communism now a superior system to capitalism?No.
>>533430481For who? For me? Yes
>>533430481No
>>533430481Communism is a derelict system from the industrial age when millions of workers were farming and putting shit together in factories.It has no place in a post-internet world, but retards think it's still a functional system that can be used to create a society. Even the Chinese abandoned it for a more nat-soc type of government.
>>533430481Back to plebbit
>I'm in a state of absolute poverty>Let me write a long blogpost about it in my copious spare time on my computer and post it to the Internet >I can't afford groceries
>>533430481Also, Trotsky, like Lenin, supported the NEP and the development of capitalistic market activity in the Soviet Union, so that the USSR could do capitalism to develop itself before implementing socialism.It was Stalin who reversed Lenin and Trotsky's plan by insisting on achieving socialism at light-speed through crash industrialization at the cost of who knows how many millions of lives and millions thrown into the Gulag. And of course Stalin's version of the USSR, a top-down dictatorship overloaded with bureaucracy, collapsed, as was inevitable.Had the USSR gotten Trotsky instead of Stalin, it might have been today's China: ultimate success story, world factory, good quality of life.
>>533430481im no expert on these matters but no government seems to really want free markets. if they did, they wouldn't have bailed out the banks.
>>533430579How are either communism or capitalism repudiated by the fact that the internet exists?>>533430603I'm pretty well off, but I grew up poor and know what it's like in America.
>>533430481Capitalism is a word made up by worthless sack of shit thieving commie niggers who want to steal from productive people practicing free trade. All you niggers should be hanged in public.
>>533430579>'nat-soc type'No such thing ever existed and the CCP (CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY) rules over a corporatist 21st century China in globalized totalitarianism. China wants to usher in the globalist no-borders government of all 160 former-countries, 21st century China is the model for globalist totalitarian control of populaces.Central banks control all nations, including China: the control center is picrel<--That is (You)r ruler. No such thing as 'muh rayyyyyce' or governments, they're controlled by central banks.
>>533430713I’m sick of the deception like china is national socialist. We need to violently kill communists in the west. Immediately.
>>533430615We hosted Trotsky. Right here.
>>533430640>no government seems to really want free marketsThat is because : >>533430713Central banks run the world. Not governments or heads of stateformer U.K. prime minister explains who-what *actually* controls and runs (no, it isn't the government) their country:https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/522930520
>>533430708The origin of the word doesn't matter. It describes the phenomenon well.And capitalism isn't just free trade. It's the culture of private owners investing for profit, then reinvesting for profit, then reinvesting for profit, ad infinitum.Capitalism didn't take off until the 1600s in Holland. Before that, there was no culture of perpetual reinvestment by private owners. Merchants just stuck to their line of merchandise and big, capital-intensive projects were financed by the state.Private enterprises being the engines of investment and then reinvestment, on and on, didn't take off until the 17th century, and that's capitalism. It involves markets but is not identical to markets.
>>533430481>my bowl of shit is better than your bowl of shitHumans of all systems have failed to integrate industrialism into a viable framework, because industrialism leads to mass production, and mass production, on a supply curve, leads to mass consumption, which fuels dopamine abuse. For all of time, human beings had only expensive access to dopamine, except sex (but that had other consequences), but now the price of consumption is so much lower than the price of production, and so dopamine is easy, and when dopamine is easy, it crashes everything as people fall into degeneracy. Liberal-Capitalism coped the best because it channeled this dopamine chasing by getting people into debt and thus using both the carrot and the stick to get people to produce more than they consumed, and then tax/appropriate half. That system, while not great, at least was sustainable over the long term. Then the internet hit, and the digital age has made it so 10 basement dwelling code monkeys can induce a dopamine surge in, hypothetically, tens of millions of people. So now, the dopamine isn't cheap, is almost free, and it's source is in your pocket 16 hours a day, and sitting by your head for the other 8.>Nowadays, capitalism leads to poverty. We've seen this before during the industrial revolution. Societies always cope with rapid change extremely poorly, especially when money is involved.>What do we have to lose? Our society is awful. Life today is a living hell. We might as well try socialism now. Communists still can't answer the most important fundamental question: how do you solve the supply calculation problem in a command economy?
would've loved to see trotsky get icepicked. shame
>>533430481Capitalism itself isn't bad.The problem is that there are countries that don't improve it.
>>533431016>Communists still can't answer the most important fundamental question: how do you solve the supply calculation problem in a command economy?Probably AI nowadaysGemini is literally smarter than any professional I've met.If a consumer AI can do that, then the major stuff can run an economy.
>>533430481Communism is another word for judaism
>>533431474Ok. Is judaism good for me?
Dejudaized communism would be preferable to capitalism.
>>533430481>Is communism now a superior system to capitalism?South Korea is a microcosm of what happens at the end stages of capitalism. One faggot cocksucker company made by privileged people ends up owning the entire country. You would think the gooks in South Korea would've figured this shit out considering they've been studying most of their lives in cram schools. Not so fucking smart are they when the Samsung royal family is making them into impotent broke nerds.
>>533431401Nah, chatbots make repeated rookie mistakes on the most basic things. They can't think, nor even calculate, they just imitate calculation and thinking by pretending to talk about things that it's been exposed to. They would cause as many problems as they resolve. Maybe in 10 or 20 years something might have changed, but for now it's not something you would risk placing in charge of complex economic functions.
>>533431610Just have a corporation do the calculations
>>533431667That's what we do right now.
>>533430481Yea that's why we are speaking Russian. Clearly superior.
>>533430481>be China >try communism>millions die>much suffering>people revolt>fast forward>George Bush Sr offers an olive branch>be China>accept olive branch (w/ evil commie intentions)>allows their people to start businesses, own property>economy improves >people have a higher standard of living>continue to be evil>spy on and infiltrate the country that offered an olive branch>Trump comes along>Communist China releases a virus>Trump: It came from Chiiinaaaaa. And here we are. Wake up, stupid.Wake up.
>>533430481>>Man writes book about the flaws of capitalism>>The flaws of capitalism destroy societyCapitalists: how did this happen? Must have been communism.
>>533431854So? The problem is?
>>533431401>>Communism can't work because of (arbitrary complaint)Meanwhile capitalism is destroying the family unit. Why sell 1 fridge when I can get your ass divorced and sell 2.2 rents2 fridges.Mom's new boyfriend bought Timmy a gocart you better do extra work on your side of Christmas 3 so he loves you or something.
socialism is practiced to an extent in my country and it is fantastic a government corporation does calculations in case you need an idea of where socialism works.
Some Iraqi commie gave us the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. it wasn’t a native or a conservative.
>>533430481Stalin's communism was the only one that worked
>>533430603>use my finite existence to slave away for kikes while they generate money from thin air
>>533432186You're talking about a homogenous, high trust, egalitarian collectivist society, operating a responsible political paradigm, with no meaningful threats and relatively to population a huge natural resource sector. The total number of societies on earth that can do what your country did is a grand total of 1: your country. Bloated political systems where the political elite are out of touch with ordinary people, individualistic backstabbing societies, third world shithole communities robbing the system blind, and a lack of natural resources; any one of which wouldn't allow your system to work, is a problem that every single other country on earth has. You just won't understand it until you experience niggers en masse.
>>533432363>The largest sovereign wealth fund shared by Norwegian workers today was built by a Muslim immigrant or refugee from Iraq not one of us. It could have been privatised.I’m all for what you’re talking about I’m just saying I’m definitely not rooting for conservatives.We can do what we want.
>>533430481Yes !Simply because there are goals set.Money is secondary problem.You simply do not have this in Capitalism.Only Goal is money.Progress is not important!Notion that Capitalism devour itself is true!You can't expect be Empire No 1 with Capitalism!Or going to the Future with it!You can already see that ...Western world is not able keep with China !It easy to Understand Capitalism is defined by "It is MINE" Communism "It is ours"Group of people always win over Individual working on same goal !There is way how to improve Capitalism so it can have slight chance against Communism But you have to ban Corporations and close stock Market NYSE Then Maybe Capitalism can survive and compete !Also you have to understand the fact that there is no true Communist country in The world !N.Korea and China are semi Communist countries !USA currently is in final Devour itself Phase when Capitalism reach its pure nature of Parasite and kill the host !Communism on other hand was never tried in its pure described form !Soviet Union was also semi Communism but it was destroyed in crucial phase where True progress was in speed up phase same as with China But China managed stand And Soviet Union was destroyed from within !!!
>>533430481>nowalways was
>>533434603>memedani industry plant
The great wall of reddit. Didn’t read. Stayed long enough to type piss off whopper. Go back.
>>533430810>muh central banksplease stop with this gay boomer conspiracy theory.its the PRIVATE banks that are the problem.central banks are government owned.
>>533434772(You)'re a fucking retard. Debt is the lifeblood of the global economy and finance.>privateCentral banks *ARE* privately held, brainlet.(You)'re an illiterate 40-IQ ESL fucktard.Don't post on the internet ever againPrinces of the Yenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY
>>533430481Is that Sam Hyde?
>>533430481communism doesnt yet exist, only the occassional communist.
>>533430960the nature of capitalism isnt reinvesting, its exploitation. simple as.
>>533431016sure they have: remove the exploitative demands of the economic system.
>>533430481No. The optimal economic system is a mixed economic system. This has not changed.Capitalism vs socialism is a false dichotomy. Pure capitalism or pure socialism does not make economic sense, and there has been no pure capitalist or socialist economy anyway.>The average Chinese now has a better quality of life than the average AmericaNot yet. It might become the case in 10-15 years.>Communism in the past only yielded povertyComecon countries were only poor relative to the world's leading economies; they were rich relative to the third world.>Capitalism yielded prosperity.The US was a lot more socialist back in its "peak" days (think Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority, Atomic Energy Commission, etc).
>>533430481You will own nothing and be a woman.
>>533431953>capitalism is when the government does stuffwhy are communists so utterly braindead?Also just because there are a few problems now(due to government) your "solution" is to implement a system that makes things a million times worse?
>>533432186>>533432237Your country isn't even close to being socialist
>>533434603lmfao why are communists so incredibly brainwashedMamdani is going to force the working class into poverty, and you bootlickers blindly support it
>>533437200>2% tax on the wealthy is le armageddon>ermagerd tax on homes over 5 million is another holocaust
>>533437257>thinking the taxes on the rich are the problem and not the rent control(city destroying policy, enjoy your housing shortages and skyrocketing rents lol), out of control spending/debt, crime wave, lack of building/development(enjoy high unemployment etc)Why are the cities that have the freest markets the ones doing the best?Why is rent so cheap in tokyo or austin texas.God I hate you brainwashed retards so much
>>533430514fpwp
Capitalism lifts people out of poverty.Socialism forces them into poverty.
>>533430481>Meanwhile, communist China has lifted almost a billion people into the middle class, and has lifted all of its 1.4 billion people out of absolute poverty: no hunger, no homelessness.they did this by abandoning communist central planning and embracing capitalismwhy do you commies never talk about this?>The average Chinese now has a better quality of life than the average AmericanHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA>We might as well try socialism now. So things have gotten shit due to a lack of capitalism and your solution is to go full poverty and destruction?
>>533438513For all of its flaws, China is still a homogeneous country. Meanwhile we have to live with niggers and other shitskins.
>>533437144Rofl
>>533430481You're absolutely correct on everything you said. Our next step is market socialism (the capitalist/socialist in between). China is already on that step and getting good results. But America with Israel is determined to end the human race before we're ever allowed to do that. Also I don't know how we would ever move into a communist government because it doesn't allow for rigged "democracy" and liberals are addicted to the concept. Communism allows anyone to join the party and serve the community with no elections or funding needed. Rigged corporate funded elections is how America stays as corrupt as it is and there are too many people that don't realize it or refuse to accept it.
>>533437144God I wish we could deport you Mind the typos and skim the image. I talk to 2 retards like you on the daily.
>>533437144 >>Off to ruin the next country!>>Probably leftists fault.Right wing (Israeli) ideology is so fucking retarded
>>533430744What about Soviet-adjacent national communist Stalininist types?>Now the bourgeoisie sells the rights and independence of the nation for dollars. The banner of national independence and national sovereignty has been thrown overboard. There is no doubt that you, the representatives of the communist and democratic parties, will have to raise this banner and carry it forward, if you want to be patriots of your country and become the leading force of the nation.- Stalin during 19th Congress of the CPSU (1952)Stalin even wanted to let the NDPD (east german party made out of NSDAP remnants) to continue publishing Völkischer Beobachter.
>>533439498>God I wish we could deport youKill yourself. It's you third worldists with your third world socialist policies that have destroyed america.Get the fuck out of my country.>>533439575>>>Off to ruin the next country!You mean like how Argentina is massively improving under Milei?lmaoYou leftists ruin every single country you're in charge of, from cambodia, to china under mao to the ussr.It's fucking hilarious that the countries that are the most successful are the ones with the most capitalismhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_economic_freedom
>>533439575Also Argentina has been failing with socialist policies for fucking decades and you simply ignore it.You people are in a religious cult.Please kill yourself immediately statecuck bootlicker
>>533430481>much more economic security, no fear of falling into homelessness.This. America is a mess. I just filmed this outside my rented apartment; homeless filth everywhere sleeping on the streets. There's no future for the west unless we embrace the Chinese system.
>>533440251thats china lmfao
>>533440356Comrade, you are a true genius for noticing the joke well done
>>533430481Hardline communism is disastrous and self defeating which is what Lenin learned early on and why he began softening on a separate free market outside of the official state economy. Stalin then went full on authoritarian and complacency and corruption set in later in the Cold War.Socialism is not a solution on its own however as a means to set a floor for wages and the production of goods necessary to the survival of the state with a fully unregulated free market operating in conjunction with it is the ideal economic model, the key is preventing the consolidation of power either in the hands of a corrupt government or self serving corporate interests, centralization is the problem that stalls circulation be it capitalist or communist.
>>533440251To be fair, the chinese system just beats and jails homeless until they go out of sight, the american system doesn't do that outside of clearing favelas that get too big because property renters complain.
>>533430960>Capitalism didn't take off until the 1600s in Holland.Marxist historical illiteracy take.Prot Roman European city was capitalist and trace its roots back to Ancient Greece polis.European feudalism was in rural territories, capitalism was in towns and these systems existed in parallel (together with 3rd system, theocracy of the Church). But Marxist primitivism is failing to capture complexity of life.
