It’s almost as if any economic or political system can be manipulated by malicious actors in positions of power

For once, OP IS NOT A FAGGOT

>>533508696
Not any. In the (theoretical) fully free market, no one could due to no coercion.

Private businesses can't manipulate anything as they can't enforce laws.

>>533508651
>A 2024 analysis of pharmaceutical costs across OECD member countries highlighted the following disparities between the U.S. and South Korea:
>Brand-Name Drugs: U.S. prices are approximately 700% (7x) of those in South Korea.
>Biologics: These complex medications cost more than 5.7 times higher in the U.S..
>Top Revenue Drugs: For the 60 most profitable medicines in the U.S., the gap widens to 8.4 times the Korean price.
Yeah, it's not regulation, homo. In normal countries regulations limit what a drug is allowed to cost for the following period

>>533508696
american finding out what interventionism is, but not understanding that it is inherently evil:

>>533508651
A sick person doesn’t have a choice.
The "free market" doesn’t work when you’re dying.

Would you abolish patents and any intellectual property rights?

>>533508930
then start wondering why you can't simply purchase said drugs from abroad, or why, if profit margins are so big, you can't start new companies producing said drugs at a slightly lower markup. it's almost as if established pharmaceutical companies push for """safety""", import, and patent regulations which make competition legally impossible. interesting how that sounds.

>>533509054
if you believed that healthcare is a free market, and that sick people don't have choices, you'd be starting pharmaceutical companies, Hans.

>>533508651
Not much of an argument when the US is spending twice as much per capita on health care as countries with universal healthcare. This is just one case where the free market is, in fact, less efficient.
>private insurance is a completely unnecessary middleman
>without universal coverage people get less preventative care because they don't want to pay out of pocket, which leads to more serious (and much more expensive) health problems later

>>533508651
Private health insurance is the biggest scam ever, insurance being for-profit in general is counter-intuitive.

>>533509175
>this is a case where the free market is less efficient
except it's not a free market. you literally did the meme.
drop that memeflag, ranjeet. I know who's paying you people

>>533508930
Patented drugs are a literal legal monopoly. How expensive are free market aka generic drugs, you fucking retard?

>>533509054
Good point, in fact, now that you mention it, no one has a choice, since everyone has basic needs, sick or not. Holy shit. How will libertarians ever recover from this ground breaking realization? KeK

One way or another consumption of anything (food, shelter, clean water, a cure for an illness), requires previous production. If production is inefficient, most people's basic needs can't be met. Production is more efficient in a free market. Get it?

>>533509175
US healthcare can't be a case of the free market being less efficient, anymore than reddit is a case of free speech being less efficient.

It's not a free market.

>>533509054
Making money now is about how you can extort rents from everyone else. Subscriptions, landlords, insurers. It's all pretty gay now.

>>533509161
>if you believed that healthcare is a free market, and that sick people don't have choices, you'd be starting pharmaceutical companies, Hans.
I said it’s not a free market as sick people are not free.
You don’t compare prices when you have a knife in your ribs.
Healthcare is only ever a fair transaction if it’s regulated.

>>533509232
>a more regulated system has 7 times cheaper exact same brand drugs
>hurr durr it's regulation making drugs expensive
it's the kikes, you stupid nigger
who owns the insurance and pharmaceutical companies?

>>533508651
Modern socialized housing was created in the 1930's when the socialists took over with the intention of shipping first and second generation immigrants out of the overcrowded cities into suburbs as a response to, wait for it, mass immigration to major cities as the economy failed. Well they never turned that system off

>>533508651
all spaniards are red pigs and cryptomuslims
kys commie raghead
get raped by a nigger
you got 500K niggers for free last month I lol at you

>>533509232
>Production is more efficient in a free market. Get it?
Turns out production efficiency is defined more in terms of profitability than feasibility of goods and services being provided. If the free market could have you eating sawdust in a cardboard box with HOSPITAL written on the side, it would. Regulation needs to regulated too.

An unregulated 'free' market is always a race to the bottom.

>>533509232
You didn’t address my point because you can’t rebuke it.
Instead, you try to move the discussion to something else.

>>533509380
look man you are too fucking stupid to understand anything and also very loud about your stupid opinions, some of you should just accept that your ability to process information is limited, and accept that the "incomprehensible" things smart people say may actually be true even if you don't get it.

i am telling you, in the absence of legal limitations as to who can make a medicament, you get the situation of generic meds. do you not understand that?

>>533509420
i honestly really dont care about the 500k, its something midwits are outraged about, we have much worse problems

>>533509477
OK, go get treated in Somalia then, retard.

>>533509310
the word "free" in free market has only sense in a negative freedom sense, not in a positive freedom sense. so you could have cholera for all I care, that wouldn't mean you aren't free in a negative sense.
>you don't compare prices when you're in a life threatening situation
I'm sure that given the choice of spending 500 bucks for insulin or 30 bucks, even though it's a survival matter, you would choose the 30 bucks option.
>healthcare is only fair if regulated
[citation needed]
the point stands. your attempt to move the goalpost didn't work sorry.

>>533509444
no you fucking idiot. no its not. when i say its more efficient, i mean more efficient at meeting people's needs. otherwise words have no meaning.

it is a fact that free market is better for meeting most people's needs

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Based
Capitalism only doesn't work when socialism enters the picture

>>533508651
50% of our taxes go to welfare in the U.S. It's not a capitalist problem is a socialism problem, in that socialism seems to make everything worse.

>>533509449
you think i moved it to something else because you cant see the correlation between what i said and what you said, you're dumb

you said "market cant be free because sick people dont have a choice", i said "then its never free because people have basic needs even if they're not sick". ok, it "cant be truly free", but what we call the free market is still the best way for an economy to be, get it?

>>533509508
Oh... W-Why somalia, anon? I-I'm confused...

>>533509581
Let universities teach medicine to more people so there's more doctors
Make all meds generic
Allow more homes to be built, no permits, licenses and paperwork in order required, fuck boomers and "muh home value"
Lower taxes for small business owner, income tax, and taxes businesses pay for hiring someone on top of gross wage

life could be great just like that ngl

>>533509549
It’s only a free market if i can chose not to buy or buy less.
You can’t choose not to have a heart attack or just don’t give birth.
If you’re sick, you’re not a customer.
Sick people need the government to step in and regulate extreme forms of health care extortion.

>I'm sure that given the choice of spending 500 bucks for insulin or 30 bucks, even though it's a survival matter, you would choose the 30 bucks option.
That is why i asked about if he wants to abolish patents and intellectual property. Because lower drug prices are only possible if you take away these granted monopolies.

>>533508651
The first statement is almost true but replace the word capitalist with the word Jew. Honestly all of the Jew-hoarded real-estate should be seized without any compensation to the kikes what-so-ever and put on the market for fair prices.

>>533509611
>what we call the free market is still the best way for an economy to be
Yes i agree, it works good to produce products like phones but not for infrastructure, health care and security.

>>533509631
Somalia only has a government nominally, it's a free market heaven. In fact, it used to be heralded as an economic model for the future by free market enthusiasts in 2000s who literally promoted anarchy and a stateless market as driving the Somalian economic progress.

>>533509796
that is not how it works you fucking idiot, you are the reason europe is a shithole.

>real freedom is impossible bro, sick people cant choose bro, what now?
KeK, idiot, if i am sick, i guarantee i prefer a free market vs a bureaucrat putting me on a waitlist or patents on meds

>>533509817
do you seriously not see any other problem with the statement? i tried to make it very obvious

>>533509901
>efficiency works for unimportant things only
idk about you but i'd prefer a cheap home and cheap healthcare and to be on a waitlist for a gaming pc and a tv

>>533509974
That’s exactly how it works buddy.
If you want a new phone and the seller asks for 10k€ you can say no until the market eventually responds.
If you are bleeding from your throat you cannot wait and say no. Unregulated healthcare would be only available to the richest people.
That’s why nearly every developed western country has socialized healthcare.
And people from countries without it are dying to get here.

>>533509974
>idk about you but i'd prefer a cheap home and cheap healthcare and to be on a waitlist for a gaming pc and a tv
You are dumb. You can’t even read.

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>>533508787
Except the private businesses that have most of the wealth which allows them to manipulate the market by:
1) Buying more advertising
2) Advertising lies to gain a competitive edge (no government to regulate them)
3) Using wealth to stop people from finding out about those lies (online bots that spam review sites or social media bots affirming the lies and discrediting those that call out those lies)
4) Buying private armies to enforce what they want (no, boycotting will not work here)

>>533510204
>If you want a new phone and the seller asks for 10k€ you can say no until the market eventually responds.
>If you are bleeding from your throat you cannot wait and say no. Unregulated healthcare would be only available to the richest people.
Until the market responds also means there's just not enough resources available for everyone, no matter what the govt dictates.

What's faster? Market responding or a bureaucrat allocating resources?

Idiot.

>>533510273
>1) Buying more advertising
>2) Advertising lies to gain a competitive edge (no government to regulate them)
>3) Using wealth to stop people from finding out about those lies (online bots that spam review sites or social media bots affirming the lies and discrediting those that call out those lies)
It's laughable that you think this compares to government abuse

>4) Buying private armies to enforce what they want (no, boycotting will not work here)
Why do you think they're not doing that right now and overthrowing governments and just taking everyone's money, without even having to sell anything?

>>533510378
You don’t even understand what "until the market eventually responds" means.

I am done here. You argue like a 12 year old.
The only thing you managed to convince me about is that age verification is probably a good thing to keep kids like you off the internet.

>>533509175
>without universal coverage people get less preventative care because they don't want to pay out of pocket, which leads to more serious (and much more expensive) health problems later
That's the story they tell you but actually Americans are just extremely fat. That's why they have serious health problems later.

>>533510506
i am extremely tired of explaining things to leftists, why dont you explain something to me for once? maybe you unironically know something that i dont. maybe im jaded and assuming everyone is a retard and you arent.

>>533509796
>it's only a free market if I can choose not to buy or buy less
that's not the definition of a free market
the choice which must be available is always understood in a negative sense. but apparently pajeets such as yourself find it hard to distinguish between negative and positive freedoms (which are nothing but entitlement)
>you can't choose not to have a heart attack
true and irrelevant
>if you're sick, you're not a customer
why?
>sick people need the government to step in and regulate forms of health care extortion.
it's not extortion to ask for remuneration for your product or service so long as aggression isn't involved.
>lower drug prices are possible if you remove granted monopolies
i.e. if you make the market freer of state intervention. congratulations, you've discovered capitalism.

>>533508651
You answered yourself : REGULATED

>>533509945
Y-Yeah, anon! That's it! They have a free market heaven. T-That's good, right? I-I am confused anon, what's wrong with that?

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>>533510486
I didnt say it was comparable to government abuse. I am using these to counter your claim that “private companies cant manipulate anything in a free market because it cant enforce laws”

>Why do you think they're not doing that right now and overthrowing governments and just taking everyone's money, without even having to sell anything?
Because governments, already having armies, would stop them

>>533509477
>some of you should just accept that your ability to process information is limited, and accept that the "incomprehensible" things smart people say may actually be true even if you don't get it.
checked

>>533509974
The impersonal and objective free market you envision doesn't exist, it is always colored by the interests of it's participants. It doesn't matter whether it's government intervention or private economic action, the result of Jewish and Jew-aligned actors will ALWAYS be a net-negative to you my dear goyim. The truly wise don't subscribe to any form of economic dogma, they play for their team. You regulate when regulation benefits you, you liberalize when liberalization benefits you.

>>533509796
1000% true

>>533510914
government controls it by force. that is the difference.
>jews
oh... you're one of those paid bots..

>>533510838
you tell me, you're the one who doesn't want to get medical treatment there

>>533510847
Ok good point ngl.

However, take the housing market as an example. Imagine if the situation was reversed, free market, no licenses required to make a home, more homes available, MUCH lower prices and going lower, but!! Some building companies use false advertising and peddle lies on social media. Which do you think is better for young people looking to buy a home?

Btw false advertising as in straight up scam would also not be acceptable in a free market, for the same reason robbing someone would be profitable and some people want to do it, but it wouldnt be allowed.

>>533511028
B-b-but anon, I am not sick... Why would I get medical treatment in Somalia if I don't even need it?

>>533510978
>government controls it by force. that is the difference.
basically

>>533508696
you mean JEWS?
bothsidesism pussies out when confronted with the real underlying problem both sides have

>>533508651
this in not pure capatilism.
lobbying (bribery) is allowed here because of a corrupt idea that corporations are people and money is speech.

>>533510273
>no government to regulate them
fraud can still be punished in a completely free market through collection agencies, private courts, and the such.
>buying private armies to enforce what they want
ignoring the possibility of private production of defense in protection of property rights through insurance agencies and related contractors, the fact that aggressors must be by definition blacklisted by insurers, thus leaving such aggressors to fend for themselves while everyone who plays by the rules benefits from reduced direct defense costs. and so on.
https://www.mises.ch/library/Hoppe_PrivateProductionOfDefense.pdf

>>533510978
Any contract that cannot be backed up by force is a suggestion and suggestions can be ignored.

>>533511490
what an idiot

>>533511490
there's a difference between a contract convened voluntarily without use or threat of force, and a contract convened involuntarily with the threat or use of force in the form of aggression (infringement of negative rights). both involve the possibility of the use of force, but simply involving force doesn't make the same thing. one example infringes negative rights through force, the other doesn't.

Yes what we really need is techno-feudalism

>>533511051
If there were no regulations on building homes, for example, building contractors would not have to build things to code, zoning laws, or aesthetic standards. They would use paint with lead, asbestos insulation, et cetera.
Government oversight is necessary in pretty much every industry to prevent exploitation of the consumer.

>>533511541
Says the utopian dumbass.
>>533511587
Ahh and your assumption is that absence of government will prevent you from being forced into a contract you don't like. Which is a silly assumption for two reasons. The first is that private individuals are perfectly capable of extorting you without a state framework, the second is that you're assuming that government isn't inevitable and that power will never accrete. The salient element here isn't freedom, it's power and in fact one's level of freedom directly correlates with the amount of power one possesses.

>>533509575
Capitalism works great until governments of any kind get involved.

>>533510273
No. Not at all.

The only real threat of corporations growing too large is them creating artificial scarcity. If they control all or most of a thing, they can set the price as they see fit or buy out competition.

>>533512092
>your assumption is that absence of government will prevent you from being forced into a contract you don't like
it's my assumption that the government uses aggression to extract resources from its subjects. I don't claim that the absence of one aggressor would forever end all aggression. I have never claimed that.
also point is to be made about "aggression" here which isn't the same thing as "forced into a contract you don't like" since one could be forced by nature into a contract he doesn't like, and I don't see that as unjust. to say otherwise would be to claim that there's no distinction between entitlement and right.
so, no, you just built a strawman.
>government is inevitable
there have been examples of societies which endured without a monopoly on the use of force funded through theft, so in this sense, empirical evidence shows that a government isn't necessary inherently. besides, your argument seems close to the idea that you shouldn't jail thieves because whether you jail them or not, thieves will continue to exist.

>>533508651
regulatory capture / deregulation. Capitalism works when criminal behavior is regulated.
Trump has dismantled every consumer protection body and removed every regulation possible.

>>533511980
look man you're right actually, some government regulations are unironically good. but we have a massive problem of government abuse, so anyone who can think is logically angry with them and want them to do less and leave people alone.

im pretty sure people would not buy homes made with lead paint and asbestos insulation, and builders would not make homes that people would then not want to buy, but even still, like i said, i understand regulations against this, i am not criticizing that, that's something governments are doing right unironically.

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>>533510204
Every valid metric of Healthcare is better in the US. Lower wait times, better outcomes, and medical innovation.

As far as cost is concerned, most of your Healthcare is subsidized by the US, and you still pay higher taxes for it.

>>533512543
Regulators work to protect established corporations and punish newcomers.

>>533512608
They just wouldn’t tell you what building materials they used because they’re not obligated to by any law.
Would every home owner be expected to pay out of pocket to have the materials in their home analyzed by an inspector? In the US, home inspectors are already corrupt even with regulations. I couldn’t even imagine how bad it would be if they were given free rein.

>>533512623
>As far as cost is concerned, most of your Healthcare is subsidized by the US, and you still pay higher taxes for it.
retard

>>533512623
>Every valid metric of Healthcare is better in the US. Lower wait times, better outcomes, and medical innovation.
this is probably not the case considering americans keep complaining about healthcare, despite being a big capitalist and wealthy country that could definitely do better, even socialized healthcare in spain is probably better, because here, it sucks and we're socialist, poor and pathetic sure, but at least, you never pay, there's no waitlist if something is an emergency, the ER is typically a few hours of wait, you can see a family doctor in a week or two and a specialist in 1-3 months. not great but at least its somewhat functional.

>>533512769
ok then we wouldnt buy the ones that don't say it, because there would be more homes and lower prices, it wouldnt be like a boomer saying "1 million for a home full of lead, i know what i got"

>>533512608
>>533511980
Two valid views and points. People need to be able to trust that products are safe.... Sometimes government needs to dovsomething, sometimes the market does. For instance some "safe" products according to the government are actually fucking terrible, and people still vote with their wallets. I have nearly completely cut out high fructose corn syrup. I lost 40 lbs in 5 months, just using cane sugar stuff.

The capitalists are the ones who bribed the government to pass those regulations, idiot. When conservatives cry for "small government" what they really mean is "I want a big government I have no say in".

>>533513000
you are dumb as fuck ngl, ok capitalism can turn into socialism if it goes wrong, that doesnt mean socialsm is better

Okay you're framing it terms of aggressor/victim dichotomy which is heavy handed and ignores nearly all nuance, okay fine. Okay even if that's true, then does it not logically follow that being the aggressor is better than being the victim? That the optimal move it to maximize your position within the aggressor hierarchy rather than impotently wish that there was no aggression? Once again the point you ignore that it's all about power and freedom is just a reward of power.

>>533512467
>there have been examples of societies which endured without a monopoly on the use of force funded through theft, so in this sense, empirical evidence shows that a government isn't necessary inherently.
You're almost certainly stretching definitions but even if I take that statement at face value, where are these so-called societies now? Lack of government is a temporary phenomena. The whole anarcho-capitalist idea is just another kind of wishful thinking and ironically enough just the reverse side of the same coin that communism is minted on. Both ideologies reduce all of human existence to mere economics and claim that by blunt application of a dogmatic economic extreme will fix everything.

>>533512839
That’s good and all, but realize that land is a finite resource and all plots of land are not created equally. Some land is intrinsically more valuable because of its proximity to desirable locations like big cities, beaches, et cetera. If somebody wants to live near their job so they don’t have to commute an hour, they have much fewer options because all the land is already developed, sometimes by the same corporation.
Just look at corporations like BlackStone and Berkshire Hathaway, they are gobbling up property all over the US and are edging out private homebuyers. This would only get worse in the “free market” system of no government regulations.

>>533512813
Look up the actual numbers. The US is only scoffed at over price. We do have some overburdened areas due to population increases, but that usually only lasts a short time.

We have around a 30% better cancer survival rate. That matters because it's an indicator of every metric combined. Including cost, because it's better for every demographic.

I agree with you on the rest of your posts. Also, fuck Germans.

>>533513087
ok you are actually not wrong, i have to admit, just a couple things:

the big investment funds cant buy up all or most of the land people want to live in, that's too much, thats like saying they can buy up all the land people can cultivate food in. what they are hoarding is homes that the government allowed to be built, or land they allow homes to be built on, because that's a very scarce and exclusive resource that only gains value

meaning (should be obvious but just in case), it wouldnt be a problem without those permit requirements

you'll get over lolbert-ism

they're not your friends

>>533513504
You sure? How will I get over it exactly?

I can see myself becoming less radicalized if the government stops the abuse, sure.

>>533513599
theyre the same

the government is not separate from the financial order, it is its armed wing, they all agree that they are against you

>>533508651
Capitalism is perfectly compatible with excessive regulation
You're confusing "capitalism" with "free market"

>>533513074
>dichotomy aggressor victim
no.
>does it not logically follow
it doesn't. because there's the even better choice of being neither aggressor nor victim.
>impotently wish there was no aggressor
not being an aggressor doesn't imply you are defenseless from aggression.
>you're almost certainly stretching definitions
I am not
>where are they
usually end due to encroachment of statism. see for example cospaia which endured for 4 centuries, or Acadia, or the early far west, or medieval iceland, and so on. that is to say, production of defense can be privatized.
>b-but they have fallen
again just because a good system can be subverted by bad actors, it doesn't mean we should prefer the state of subversion where said bad actors are in control. we should instead pursue the good system, even if the possibility of it being attacked exist.
>the reverse of communism
the closer we get to the anarcho capitalist society, the better off people are, and that's empirically shown. the closer we get to full socialism, the worse off people are in relative terms.
>will fix everything
from the libertarian point of view that's not what it is trying to do. It's simply trying to remove an undue burden.
your analysis is incredibly shallow. midwit tier.

>>533513860
capitalism implies free market you absolute mongrel

>>533513766
WHAT? R-Really? Oh my god! This changes everything!

You mean that Amazon, which sells at a loss when a competitor is better, is the same as the government, which mandates that their friends' competitors have to close shop, and BOTH ARE AGAINST ME? oh no!!

>>533508651
regulation is communistic

>>533513962
no, its amancio ortega and ayusos boyfriend

>amazon
try rothschild

>>533508651
> immensely regulated
> capitalism

kys, retard. You are too stupid to live.

crazy how this post got the pajeet spambots so worked up

>>533508651

>capitalism
>immensely regulated

You can't have capitalism with too much regulation, because capitalism is all about the free movement of capital to get lots of competition.

You have answered your own question. In the US prices are too high because of regulatory capture because people voted for that, because boomers own homes and have free healthcare and vote for their interests and young people don't, because they are stupid and listen to people like you on the internet.

Big pharma captured the state to put regulation in place so it doesn't have to compete in a capitalist free market and home owners put lots of red tape in place to stop new cheap housing from being built so the prices of their homes will go always up.

>>533508651
Reminder to all the posts after the Op that this is made by an 18 year old 1st year uni dude that has had his first year of economics. Please do not pay him any attention. The Spanish /pol/iticians know him and make fun of him.

>>533513944
No it doesn't. Free market doesn't exist and can't exist. It's not absent of cohersion in any way.

>>533514572
Reminder to everyone seeing this comment that it's from an idiot from a group of spanish flag posters who bully me because they have gotten together and decided by majority consensus that stupid views are actually correct, and complicated things they dont understand are lies

>>533514049
>try rothschild
why?

>amancio ortega and ayusos boyfriend
big difference between the two ngl

>>533514793
>why?
because i said so

youre over here overdosing on rallo you dont even have a clue

>>533508787
What is a "free market"? Establishing ownership requires an apparatus to enforce ownership rights which involves police, and a legal system all of which have to be paid by someone and accepted by the majority. If anything it's even more of an artifice than an overtly hierarchical government.

>>533508651
>Socialism is when regulation
>Capitalism is when no regulation
Bet you really thought you cooked with this one, huh?

>>533512340
>No not at all
No argument lmao.

>>533514875
>because i said so
peak midwit

>>533514922
Yup. Still do btw.

>>533514707
just because you don't know what free market means, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>>533515053
i am le smert
i luv exxon, jp morgan, and pfizer, i wish they would just let them blacken the oceans, have debt-slaves, and experiment on my baby

ya ok bud

>>533511150
Oh, the poor, miserable ultra rich, being coerced and mindwashed by the jew into being evil
If only we just removed all the jews, then ultra rich would miraculously convert and stop destroying the human race

>>533515080
Ok, retard.

>>533508651
reminder that economics is all made up garbage. you can slap whatever label you want on your system, it doesn't matter.

>>533515087
Capitalism means private control of production.
Capitalism does not imply free markets.
In fact, most of the time capitalists are the ones pushing for regulation, to keep competition out.

>>533509232
>private property rights enforced by the state are communism!
I agree comra-er... I mean fellow based individualist free market enjoyer! Down with the dictatorship of the bourgeoisi...I mean nanny state regulators!

>>533515391
>communism and capitalism are the same bro
>its all just the jews bro, labels dont matter
peak midwit

>>533515407
>most of the time capitalists are the ones pushing for regulation, to keep competition out
they do this because it benefits them, if they were the ones trying to compete, or the customers who want the best price and product, they would support the free market, but they are hypocrites so they support government favors if they beneft them at the expense of everyone else

>>533515679
>government bad
>unless it's to enforce my fictional "right" to "own" an idea
do you toddlers even listen to yourselves?
or just copypaste from the chatbot and go back to sipping your dumb fuck juice?

>>533515209
ok so i guess since big corps can do wrong, lets regulate everything, let bureaucrats abuse us, make homes unaffordable as fuck and make everyone poor, there's no middle ground, right?

>>533515861
i keep telling you its the same

the same people own and control it all, including the sanchez you love to hate

>>533515773
>they do this because it benefits them, if they were the ones trying to compete, or the customers who want the best price and product, they would support the free market
I wonder who's going to tend to have more political power:
- large, rich, established companies who already control a market
- individual consumers and upstart small businesses

Good thing our political system doesn't allow for big money influence.

>>533515407
private property implies right to alienate the good. if you have the right to alienate the good and the right to not alienate the good it implies you can freely (free from aggression) decide to trade it at whatever terms you think are acceptable and so is the other party with his own property.
>capitalists are the ones pushing for regulations
this issue is caused by the Marxist confusion of using the word capitalist both to indicate the ideology and private property owners.
so capitalists qua ideological capitalits aren't pushing for regulations which infringe on negative rights. the fact that industrialists try to take advantage of something, doesnt make said action compatible with capitalism as a system of production.

>>533508651
You're selling the police ball to a black teen.
Most the retards on /pol/ are masochistic slaves to billionaires.
They sucked up all that juicy state sponsored propaganda growing up and can't fathom a state with a government that has it's citizen's livelihoods in mind.
They're perfectly content with being second-class citizens if it means they can be blissfully ignorant of the fact they're in a class war instead of a race war.

>>533515940
ok and i already responded when you said that, i'll give a serious answer this time

if anyone who is rich and controls means of production has to be well connected to the government, that would point to a high degree of socialism, so that's a problem i am against. fortunately its bad but not literally like that.

we need a government that is LESS involved with the economy so that if anyone is rich its because people want to buy their stuff vs competitors that can legally operate, and can pay people enough to compete with all the competitors that also want workers, and then the govt doesn't steal a big chunk of the payment. this is the perfect economic system to me.

>>533515984
neither of those should have political power, that's the point idiot

>>533516342
spain-->eu
eu-->un
un-->allies
allies-->usa
usa-->israel
israel-->rothschild


muh socialism, muh taxes
its not real, its for stupid people to be confused

>>533516640
>capitalism is the same as communism bro
>nothing is real, its all a scam bro
>north korea is the same as south korea bro

>>533516033
>so capitalists qua ideological capitalits aren't pushing for regulations which infringe on negative rights. the fact that industrialists try to take advantage of something, doesnt make said action compatible with capitalism as a system of production.
in other words, capitalists (people who own things) push for regulation while capitalist simps on the internet (that's you) pretend that all regulation is communism.
do I have that right?

>>533516492
yes, how silly of me - your specific, perfect form of capitalism has never been tried.

>>533508651
So you would just give full power to the people lying, cheating, stealing, exploiting and literally raping children with no way to push back. My but you really are a specimen aren't you.

>>533516674
yes

>>533516712
Yes, you have it exactly right. Rich people push for the same thing as you but somehow you think we are "muh bootlickers".

Rich people prefer to just be granted money by force rather than sell things people want over their competition, who would've thought?

>>533516712
My "specific perfect form of capitalism" hasnt been tried, but the closer to it an economy is, the better it is. We don't have to try the perfect form, knowing what to try to get close to would already be pretty good.

>>533516849
venga ahora a opositar

OP's still on layer 2 where he thinks big business and big government are distinct entities working in opposition to each other

>>533516900
y tu a emprender

>>533508710
yeah he is, we don't live in a capitalistic society, we live in a post giga-corporate-monopoly society
you can't have an unsound fake currency backed by nothing and call it 'captial' it's fake and not real capital so it isn't capitalism

>>533508651
>not a problem in China
>not a problem in China
>not a problem in China
0/3

>>533516873
>Rich people push for the same thing as you
Ah yes, of course. Regulations preventing child labor and wholesale environmental destruction are the same thing, spiritually, as regulations designed to stifle competition and create monopolies.
All regulations are exactly the same.
And they all make baby Jesus cry.

Because this capitalism isn't a real free market. It's a Jewish ochlocraty. Remove the Jew and his false teachings from the equation and we can easily strike 90 % of economic and labour regulation out of existence because it will not be needed any more.

>>533516712
no you have that wrong because you're a dishonest state sponsored indian.
I say it is true that people (industrialists) who do push for regulations to cut their competition thus attempting to dismantle the capitalist system exist. at the same time there are also industrialists who do the opposite and most notably, those who are attempting to compete, often the smaller industrialists.
there are producers and non-producers who try to take advantage of the state.
>pretend all regulation is communism
which isn't what was said. regulations by definition bring us closer to socialism.
but regardless of your pathetic attempt to move the goalpost, your original point (namely that "capitalism doesn't imply free market") has no ground to stand on.

>>533517098
If by socialism you mean the socialism they have in china, i actually agree ngl

>>533516997
Con el pp-psoe no es muy viable que digamos

>>533517107
That's the thing. To you, the government has to have all the power. You don't see a way around that, you can't think outside of that. The government has to have all the say and dictate everything, there's no alternative possible.

And then to you, capitalism vs communism means the government dictating in favor of some over others, capitalism is when they are bad dictate in favor of big business, socialism is when they are good and dictate in favor of the people and take from businesses to give to the people. Right?

This is the view all of the stupid people, cvckservatives included, have. It's wrong for two reasons. First, there is an alternative: For the government to not dictate as much in the economy. To have the free market as an ideal and try to get close to the extent that's possible. And second, because the government can't just "dictate in people's favor and give them money from the rich so everyone's happy", this wouldn't work out because a centralized economy is so inefficient for production that everyone is poor when its tried, and because the bureaucrats dictate wouldn't necessarily be the best for you, as they may, for example, dictate a diet that is different from what people would vote for with their wallet, and also because bureaucrats usually dont even have the best intentions, and unlike capitalists in a free market, they dont even have to try to do a good job in order to stay in business.

>>533517532
aznar esta nombrado en las listas epstein
el noruego , segundo al mando de la internacional socialista (que sanchez preside) esta nombrado en las listas de epstein

epstein admite que trabaja para los rothschild

lo primero que hace milei es decir cuanto ama a los judios, irse a israel a besar el muro

los judios admiten que fueron los responsables de la revolucion rusa

washington era mason

aqui no se escapa ni el tato

>>533517985
es que tio te centras demasiado en etiquetas, en personas, en ideologias, y no ves los principios y las ideas

independientemente de todo eso, de aznar, epstein, los judios, etc, es un hecho que esto funciona asi:

economia dirigida 100% por burocracia: una puta mierda
economia dirigida 100% por el libre mercado: iria como un tiro

eso no quita que hayan casos en los que la intervencion del gobierno esta bien, o que hayan casos en los que, con malas intenciones, se creen regulaciones para beneficiar a sus amigos o a sus votantes (boomers que poseen vivienda), o adjudiquen contratos publicos a dedo, y no se pueda evitar. entonces no se puede tener el libre mercado perfecto, pero hay que tenerlo como una idea a la que intentar aproximarse.

a ti te gusta que la vivienda tenga los precios que tiene? que haya paro? que la mayoria de gente sea pobre? que los precios vs sueldos suban mas y mas?

eres de los bobos que culpan a los empresarios de eso? que incluso cuando te explican que lo hace el gobierno, dices "bueno es que los empresarios controlan el gobierno" joder es que es de ser muy bobo. de verdad no ves que el gobierno tiene que hacer menos, contratar menos, recaudar menos, gastar menos, sacar menos leyes, y todo iria mejor?

>>533517532
>the government has to have all the power
In the world we actually live in, governments do have all of the power to do violence.
Any path towards a different world (better or worse) must necessarily start in the world we actually occupy.

>First, there is an alternative: For the government to not dictate as much in the economy
Who gets to decide which regulations are good and which are bad?
Right now, that decision is made by capital-owners who bribe the government to enforce their private property "rights" while stripping any protections for workers and the environment.
Great system.

>>533518394
que todo eso esta genial

pero que no hablamos de aldeas, campesinos y vacas

la familia rothschild controla el mundo como la familia medici controlaba venecia

a traves del banco

lo controlan todo, las empresas y los gobiernos

para ellos es todo lo mismo, porque todo es suyo, comunismo-capitalismo llamalo como quieras, el asunto es controlarte a ti

>>533518487
>In the world we actually live in, governments do have all of the power to do violence.
>Any path towards a different world (better or worse) must necessarily start in the world we actually occupy.
Ok and when it comes to the economy, they could do less, spend less, pass less laws, require less permits and licenses for things, require less taxes, and everything would be better, i think that's a reasonable opinion.

>>533518487
>Right now, that decision is made by capital-owners who bribe the government to enforce their private property "rights" while stripping any protections for workers and the environment.
Well, any decision coming from those bribes is probably bad, I think that's a reasonable start.

Another reasonable start would be: The less regulations, the better. If it's not inequivocally necessary don't pass it. You need to drop the learned helplessness and imagine a world in which they actually do that.

For example in the EU they're about to mandate removable batteries for phones. KeK. Don't they see that people already voted for the opposite with their wallets? We're going to be back to the times when you drop your phone and the case and battery got detached and it was fucking annoying. And this is just some harmless example.

>>533518664
A traves del banco? Hmm que banco? Venga campeon que ya casi lo tienes.

>>533518778
todos

>>533518872
y como hacen eso? como es que no tienen competencia? no hay ni un pequeño banco que no controlen? por contratar ese

>>533518942
igual las cajas rurales mas pequeñas... pero mas alla


tomaron control de las finanzas reales hace varios siglos, establecieron bancos centrales en todos los sitios donde pudieron, y se dedican a imprimir tu dinero

>>533518735
>people already voted for the opposite with their wallets
I don't really remember ever having a choice.
The iphone came along and basically phones never had user-replaceable batteries again.
Planned obsolescence is a thing.
Companies do make shittier products just to force you to buy new ones.
This is actually one of the most studied and talked-about phenomena in modern consumer products.

This is the problem with you libertarians - you live in a fantasy world and ignore any explanation, no matter how obvious, that challenges your contrived notions of how things work.

>>533509115
>just create a billion dollar enterprise from scratch duuuude
Lolbergs will never be not funny.

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103 KB PNG

>>533508651
Basically the entire methodology of socialism. Create a problem and demand more socialism to fix the problem. Monopolies? Create regulations and fines to prevent small businesses from competing, give government handouts to companies, or even set up monopolies by law, since that service is a "right."

Not to say freedom is without problems, but there is a difference between natural tragedies or friction and man-made atrocities.

>>533519289
it's literally what chinks do producing grey market generics of drugs they don't have patents for. If some random chingchong from some unnamed town in the middle of nowhere in china can do it, why can't you? (you can't because the moment you even think of starting any business involving pharmaceutical, dozens of authorities will try to shut you down for """""safety""""" requirements, ""permits"", ""certificates"", and so on).
even assuming that it would cost in excess of hundreds of millions to compete, given the alleged absurd markups, large firms which salivate over 5% ROI, would jump on the opportunity like hyenas. that was the point i was making. if you're too braindead to get it, it's kind of your problem.

>>533514912
You're right, the only free market is one where I can "steal" from jews and niggers and burn down "their" houses. Only then can we be free from coercion.

>>533519917
>the pharma industry should just be the wild fuckin' west, bro
yeah who cares if your grandma's blood pressure medication gets contaminated with god-knows-what.
safety and permits are for low-t cucks.