Forever dictators aren't possiblehttps://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2026/04/15/japan/science-health/mammals-cannot-be-cloned-infinitely/
>>533565227>Japanese researchers prove that mammals CANNOT be cloned infinitelyClonebros...
>>533565274Oh no, one can only be cloned 56 times....
>>533565338With survival rate decreasing significantly each time
>>533565227>Forever dictators aren't possibleNot so fast....
they just need AI and handheld, supervised and mandatory goyvision
>>533565227Senescence is absolutely fascinating. Mushrooms do something similar even though the mycelium can keep growing and colonizing new substrate, eventually it just can't produce any more mushrooms and has to start again from spores. There's a lot of theories about why, the truth is that nobody really knows or understands the reasons for it.
>>533565227Memes > GenesThe greatest Roman emperors understood this.
>>533565227Forever dictators would not be satisfied by clones with separate consciousnesses maintaining their system, that's what gene editing will be for.
>>533565227Did they ensure proper telomere length?
>>533565338Still a lot of passages before terminal genomic instability kicked in.>>533565446>SenescenceWould be interesting in this context. Loss of viability might have been due to a compounding effect in these mice, not just loss of a single crucial gene.
>>533565379Clone suitability rate is starting to drop after 25th cycle.If you want to build a SW style Clone Army, and assuming that a single Clone rreaches the peak of its physical abilities between its 20s-40s, they will last for you only for a 500 years.It's so over...
>>533565227>There is a limit on how many times a mammal can be cloned before suffering “mutational meltdown,” Japanese scientists have discovered, after making 1,200 clones over two decades that started off with a single mouse.The 58th generation of mice did not survive, establishing for the first time that mammals cannot be cloned an infinite number of times, the scientists said in a study published last month.>It had been hoped that this method, which involves making clones of other clones, might have a range of uses in the future, including saving endangered species or mass-producing animals for their meat.>"We had believed that we could create an infinite number of clones. That is why these results are so disappointing,” the study’s senior author, Teruhiko Wakayama of the University of Yamanashi, said.>It was Wakayama’s team that cloned the first mouse in 1997, a year after the famous Dolly the Sheep became the first-ever mammal clone.>For the new research, the scientists first cloned the original female mouse in 2005.>Once a mouse reached three months old, they were cloned again, resulting in three or four new generations every year.>Over the next 20 years, they carried out more than 30,000 cloning attempts that created over 1,200 mice.>The process involved removing the DNA-containing nucleus of a cell from a donor animal and implanting it into an unfertilized egg from which the nucleus had been removed.interesting>The scientists sequenced the genomes of some of the clones, finding that they had three times more mutations than mice born via sexual reproduction.>They also had larger placentas — and some were missing a copy of their X chromosome.>“It was once believed that clones were identical to the original,” Wakayama said, but this was clearly not the case.are they RETARDED? everyone KNOWS 'Artificial insemination' offspring has worse health. the egg is WOUNDED, it follows that clones cannot be identical to the original
I'm sure we'll find a solution...
>>533565227Mfw uber rich people still must die.
>>533565227What's the point of clones? It's not like a clone will be actually me, that's just some faggot that looks like me, it's not an extension of my life. I guess it would be good for having spare organs like that movie but what else?
>>533565227Why is that surprising? If you clone a clone then obviously you'll get compounding defects that built up during the living one's lifetime.You have to keep a pure original.
>>533566158To make cloning worth it, youd also need to have someone invent a way to do a brain transplant. And by that point your using some very satanic means for achieving a longer lifespan.
Also probably pets
>>533566158clones are great organ donors
>>533565227Wouldn't they just try to keep the dna of the original?
>>533566317How would a brain transplant even work? Cutting the spinal cord and then connecting it back to another body perfectly sounds like alien technology far beyond just cloning.
>>533565338>Oh no, one can only be cloned 56 times.More like only 56 generations. There's basically no limit how many times per generation.
>>533566317>To make cloning worth it, youd also need to have someone invent a way to do a brain transplant.Don't forget that brain is degenerating on its own way, and sooner or later, it will be ridden by Alzheimer or a similar syndrome.
>>533566445>How would a brain transplant even work?piece by piece
>>533566420what if your clone kills you before you kill him
>>533566296Not all mutations are defective, otherwise life would not have gotten past the single cell stage. The problem here was using artificial insemination repeatedly which compounds DNA damage.
>>533565338>>533565379>>533565910is that with current technology or somehow mathematically limited? (i.e. there's certain error rate that's statistical)
>>533565997Thanks doc. Appreciate saving me the click. Where's my daily dose though?
Bokanofsky-alpha chads, our response?
>>533566495why would you let your clone live a free life lol
I'm sad that no one noticed the flaw.. MAMMALS cannot be cloned infinitely, but nothing is being said about REPTILES. >Unlimited cloning for me, not for thee filthy goym
>>533565338>Oh no, one can only be cloned 56 times....Incest bros?
>>533566454True, that too
>>533565997>>There is a limit on how many times a mammal can be cloned before suffering “mutational meltdown,” Japanese scientists have discovered, after making 1,200 clones over two decades that started off with a single mouse.>The 58th generation of mice did not survive, establishing for the first time that mammals cannot be cloned an infinite number of times, the scientists said in a study published last month.>>It had been hoped that this method, which involves making clones of other clones, might have a range of uses in the future, including saving endangered species or mass-producing animals for their meat.reminds me of the AI training mechanismyou can't train AI on AI results forever because it will spew garbage after some time. You need real data to refresh the model. It's interesting that this seems to be built into the universe. Well, analog uncertainty principle is built into universe so that shouldn't really surprise me. When you quantize it, you lose information.
>suggesting that perhaps the answer was to develop a better cloning method.yeah no shit. screen for and eliminate harmful unwanted mutations in the pricess and you'll be fine.
>>533565227This means humans reincarnate 56 times before they reach enlightment
>>533566158>What's the point of clones? It's not like a clone will be actually meNah you're thinking way too high level. You have to think like an international billionaire who funds this bullshit or a crypto zionist. They want clones to abuse and dispose of that they can keep completely off the record. They want to be able to make clones of themselves and then harvest the young organs out of those clones, or have one on standby for blood transfusions, stuff like that, so they don't have to rely on filthy commoner hears and livers that in their minds contaminate their spiritually perfect bodies. They already do all of this life extension bullshit and some of that actually works. This is just a natural evolution.
>>533566451There's probably a practical limit, but it's likely in the thousands per generation.To put that in perspective, even if that practical limit was 100, it'd be 100^56 potential clones
Look I already explained to you retards how the world leader cloning operation works Search the archives I am not posting it again it takes too long to explain and it’s so outlandish nobody will believe it anyway
>>533565997>>533566644>>533565227Why the fuck would you want to do this in the first place when we already have capable and fully functioning reproduction systems in place? I get that the method they used to go about it is also flawed but this is basically trying to solve for a problem that doesn't need to be there in the first place.
>>533567289Birth rates are falling everywhere
>>533566445They have already managed to repair some of brain stems and spines with stemcells.
>>533565227Sure, with current technology. But nanotech will soon be able to repair DNA.
>>533567327Just make women dependent on men again instead of just being everyone's problem including their own. Problem solved.
>>533565227That’s nothing, in 1800s, British scientists definitively PROVED that trains faster than 60 mph would cause asphyxiation amongst the passengers due to inability to breathe air at terrifying speeds. So this cloning shit is NOTHING
>>533567370Women are a waste of time. We need to evolve and overcome, besides i am tired of seeing all these sick and genetically inferior people everywhere, lets just make test tube babies and wipe out genetic disease
>>533566511How would you do it without an egg?
>>533567408I hope we don't fail or cause irreversible damage in this catastrophic endeavor and doom us all...I don't understand why we can't just learn to live in peace with things and still have technology...
>>533567289controlled reproduction and bio robots
>>533565227There was a guy on Joe Rogan who tried to sound the alarm on this, and about how many of our studies are probably compromised already
>>533565227Well obviously. If they could solve the telomerase problem they'd already be announcing immortality.
>>533570008>announcingthat'll only happen after they've killed us all and castrated their poopjeet slaves.
A "clone" a much more akin to a brother or sibling right? They aren't "me" they aren't even "me" from last month the clone would look like me and perhaps have some behavioral and mental inclinations similar to me but some aspect of Nurture and Autonomy would be present. When you think of clones, do you guys also assume they are lobotomized or controlled in some "final" way that we arent? Cause no human, clone or not, is going to just smile and hand over their liver and eyeballs for free when the "real me" needs them.
It's just like that Micheal Keaton movie
Reptilesissies, what's the answer?
>>533565227>Forever dictators aren't possibleWe knew that even without this shit.You can get your next Hitler a new body or 5 but the brain will die anyway after a while and you can't fix that.
>>533566445Even if it would work easily, all you'd achieve to have 90+ years old brain in new 20 years old body.Hand waving away the fact wouldn't be able to adapt to new 'case', you'd still have senile, failing brain.On the positive note, you'd piss and shit yourself less.
>>533565910They'll start declining rapidly from the first batch onwards. Likewise, a large batch will have many defects, and they all have to get proper nutritions, education etc.Cloning is just a cool technique, useful in avoiding trouble as you send a scapegoat to jail, or to do a chore you don't want to do (interview etc).You can maybe run a government with body doubles that were groomed in your facilities too.
>>533566434the original is a mouse that died 20 years ago.
>>533565227Yeah, well, what about reptiles?
>Clones are genetically identical>These had mutationsNot genetically identical then HUH
>>533570719asking the real questions
Just because a clone is genetically identical doesn't mean it's literally the same person, have the same personality or will rule in the same way as it's predecessor.
>>533566531I’m guessing current tech and has to do with telomere degradation.
This isn't news. Why is this supposed to be surprising? This ties around to the fact that like all genetic material of existing life, you need to add fresh to genetic material to the mix to keep the purity of the original source intact so it doesn't break down and become imperfect; cancerous. It is interesting as to why exactly that is the rule in the first case and leads to the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg, and even Charles Darwin puzzled at that. It's clear genetics, flesh itself, the matter of life itself is inherently unstable and highly reactive to even basic environmental alterations. Yet the original source for such design is impossible to create without reaching into fantastic notions, hence is why everyone chalks it up to the divine. At the end of the day, however, I think there is a fundemental rule that has to be considered and reviewed. "How do we analyze and understand how this process begins naturally, and improve in that to push past our limitations?". In the end it really is humanity that is limited at large, that's what frustrated the scientist. Perhaps the science is the point of issue, not the technique. Overall, it's a fascinating subject.
>>533570008What's the problem there again? Rampant cancer growth?
>>533565997>are they RETARDED?Many visionaries have megalomania, many others are desperate for a solution to their earthly problems. Mortality, justice, being found out, shame..
is this bad news for grown meat
>>533565997what happens once you insert gene editing to correct the mutations?
>>533571844It's bad news if we kill all / most cows, fowl etc. It's also bad news for that Norwegian princess who wanted to sterilize mankind for the designer clone babby plan.
>>533571863No gene editing has fixed telomeres.Thank the Goddess.
>>533571945>correctwhat happens once we learn how to fix telmeteres?
>>533565227God must've built in protections
>>533565227This just means you have to save the original cell and clone from that one.
>>533566135Your clone isn't you anyway
>>533571945>>533572057There are potentially epigenetic and general senescence concerns to worry about that we do not fully understand at the moment. That is why this study has value even though we already knew about the concept of telomere shortening form earlier cloning experiments.
>>533565227Well, when they cloned Dolly The Sheep, the resulting specimen had the same genetic age as the specimen the sample was taken from.So yeah, we sorta knew this in the 90's; this is just the natural extension of that, right?
>>533565338paging Duncan Idaho...
>>533572237From the standpoint of internal continuity, yes, but if you are replaced by a clone of yourself, that also believes that it is you, then the external difference is minimal.
>>533565227They proved mice can't be cloned indefinitely. Anyone else hate it when soience extrapolates like this?
>>533565227Explains current Trump vs 2016 campaignTrump
>>533572453lolSwimming in Ganges to get clean levels of delusion and self-betrayal
>>533565227Pretty sure this was a star trek episode
Oh no incels, looks like you need to have sex.
>>533565997>Clones from clones>We believed we could just do it infinitelyYou'll never be able to reproduce from reproductions, that's obvious even to people who never took a single biology or computer science/error coding class
>Im gonna run for office against myself forever
>>533572438Were they cloning gholas of gholas or did they have a purified duncan cum jar somewhere? That makes a difference.
Seriously though I know what you are thinking /pol/... please don't bring back Hitler
>>533565446Everything dies. It's fundamental on the atomic level. Living forever just doesn't work for life and naturally it leans to wanting to die. Sometimes dead is better.
>>533572910It's a common sci-fi thing. It happened to the Asgard in Stargate. Their entire species were lines of clones transferring consciousness, until the new clone bodies eventually degraded to the point they were no longer functional vessels. In the end, they decided to give up and suicide their entire species by blowing up their own homeworld.
>>533565997>The process involved removing the DNA-containing nucleus of a cell from a donor animal and implanting it into an unfertilized egg from which the nucleus had been removed.Found the problem.This method keeps the original telomeres
>>533570520This is why brain-machine interfaces are the better option.The flesh is weak, embrace the sacred machine.
>>533565227yeah but you can print dna (artificial gene synthesis) and circumvent the problem this wayyou store the dna in digital form and each time you need a unit, you assemble it based on the data
>>533565227Horatiobros...
>your soul can only be split 58 times before it becomes null in the system/pol/, is this how it truly is?
>>533576241no, its the "photocopy of a photocopy" effectyou have the same problem when using cuttings to propagate a plant
>>533573701>Everything dies.Single celled organisms split without dying and live forever basically. Death is derived
>>533570719They're already our forever dictators
>>533565227Or you know, just clone the original. We don't need to clone clones
>>533566644the problem is solved once the genome is minimized via alphabet expansion for generation of isomorphic pairs which are then repackaged into recursive encodings which may be subsequently read by modified RNA.
>>533576241A clone is an empty vessel.
>>533565997>might have a range of uses in the futureit's done for elites immortalitygood that it failed
>>533565227this was already known...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwqIdPSNr6Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjjVkbgaFZ8
>>533566317>brain link>downloading and uploading into cloudthey are busy working on this angle too
>>533565227Duh, everyone who watched Stargate SG-1 already knew that.
>>533577646>colning>downloading consciousnessThe hero we need
>>533565227yet
>>533573701Lobsters are immortal.
Whats with the obsession of organ donors? It seems every year humans get more desperate to live forever and act as vampire, it makes no sense to me cause living mostly sucks. Why live forever? Why kill other humans to get organs? Do people enjoy life that much? Id never take an organ of my own clone, thats pure evil.
>>533567289Probably for champion or otherwise exceptional livestock. The horse Secretariat weren't as good as he was it was actually his rival Cham who sired better racehorses.
>>533578194So with direct cloning you'd get something exactly like the original animal instead of rolling the dice with sexual reproduction.
>>533565227>mammal<dictatorsthey are reptilians, silly.
>>533565379God, what a bitch. Let baby live forever, then
>>533565227Jews go in the toilet with my shit and piss
>>533577646>>533577808Downlading concioussness, even if it could be real, is a tricky stuff.Imagine there are three clones of you - one regular - two spare ones.Jeet diversity hire lab technician made a mistake and uploaded your consciousness into all three.Which one will be the continuation of you?
>>533565227What you have to understand is this is how far down the line a clone can be made before DNA degradation. Its like hand copying a book and using the previous copy to make another copy. Eventually the transcribing errors add up the the copy is far different from the source. The solution is just preserve enough source DNA for thousands of chains of clones. If you repeat that process per clone every generation you will get diminishing returns sure because less potential clones in the chain, but exponentially more sources of DNA to harvest from.
>>533572453>external differenceirrelevant. when you die you are dead. the clone is not you
>>533577646you can't "download" a conciousness. you might theoretically be able to create a digital copy, but you will still be there inside your flesh, you will die. what becomes of an actual mind when stored on a digital medium anyway? who knows, but if silicon were an ideal medium for the storage of consciousness then chatgpt wouldn't be retarded. it would probably be hellish to be stuck on a hard drive
>>533578602none. the real you with your actual consciousness is in your original flesh, the rest are mere facsimile
>>533565338You reach the point if no return long before then.
>>533565227>the clone rot are real
>>533565227Closing is supposed to be useful why?Until they can find a way to copy over memories or something, it's not a clone.
>>533565446>>533565227So it's sort of like making a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, where the quality gets progressively farther from the original every time?
>>533580480Also it's not a perfect clone anyway, so the entire argument is nonsense. The issue is with the system they use. This is like saying you can't duplicate a picture forever, cause if you photocopy a photocopy it degrades to a point you can no longer tell what it is. Ok, so just copy the jpg file instead of photocopying it.
