This is Europe in 756In 751, Lombards conquered Ravenna, seat of the Exarchate of Ravenna, and the Byzantines did... nothing. Keep in mind exarchs of Ravenna used to be politically superior to the Pope, appointed from Constantinople as direct Imperial governorsWhen Stephen II pleaded Constantinople to save it from a new Lombard invasion, his calls fell upon deaf ears. The Byzantines were simply too weak to protect Rome, even the Peloponnese was overrun by the South Slavs!Rome was saved by the Franks with the Donation of Pepin in 756, after he beat the Lombards and allowed the creation of the independent Papal State.2nd Council of Nicaea, last ecumenical council, took place in 787, ending the heretical iconoclast practice of Byzantine emperors. It happened thanks to Irene, the regent, even though her husband, emperor Leo IV the Khazar (d. 780) was an iconoclast. Infamous for brutally blinding (and murdering) her son Constantine VI after he grew independent, she crowned herself empress. First female ruler.Thus is the sidelining of Byzantium any mystery? It sidelined itself through crime and poor governance. Another thing of note is that from the beginning, Rome has been held as prime, including during the Pentarchy established by Justinian. Unlike the Pope, the Patriarch of Constantinople never had any independence. Orthodox patriarchs continue being submissive to their respective worldly leaders. Fun fact: Orthodogs still nominally hold Rome as primeThe Schism of 1054 only ratified the growing split from the Roman Church. Defeat at Manzikert in 1071, and what followed, may be viewed as the Wrath of God. They were so dishonorable as to pawn off Nicaea without a fight to barbarians just to keep their city Constantinople safe. Then had the gall to BEG the West for aid, receiving it: the First Crusade. Even the Komnenian restoration that followed didn't strengthen this failed rump state. In 1204, Constantinople fell to a small force of Crusaders
If you say so
>>533630715bruh ur illegitimacy is written on ur face
>>533630216This map is wrong. In 756 Georgia was not part of Abassid Khalifate, especially western Georgia which is the one colored on this map.The eastern stretch and the capital, not shown on this map, were conquered by Abassids until Georgian kings did a reconquista and defeated the Khalifate clearing all of Georgia, and more, from Islam.
Orthodoxy's lack of legitimacy stems from not fucking enough children or from not kissing enough nigger feet? Maybe... both?
>>533630216>Even the Komnenian restoration that followed didn't strengthen this failed rump stateWhy do you act as if the Greeks are the only Orthodox? Was Komnenian reformation not funded by Georgian queen Tamar? Were Muslims not fought against by orthodox in the Balkan states? Did Russians not push out Ottomans? Did Greeks and Albanians not free themselves from Ottoman yolk?You are equating all eastern Christian nations to Constantinople which was corrupt and was an enemy to us in itself with constant subversions.On the other hand what did Rome do to help us? And if we talk about corruption are you going to deny complete open debauchery and degeneracy that was going on at the Papal seat multiple times be it during the Medicci era or further? And what about the completely heretical doctrine of Treasury of the saints that you hid under the rug for now which allowed you to create monetary indulgences?
>>533631191i already outlined where it stems from>>533631311it's the Byzantines who led the schism and introduced Eastern Orthodoxy to the Bulgar Empire and the South Slavs with Cyril and Methodius in the 9th century. the Viking-led Rus later embraced Byzantine Christianity in 988
>>533631104>This map is wrong. In 756 Georgia was not part of Abassid Khalifatehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_rule_in_Georgia
>>533631578How can we gain our legitimacy? My dick is ready to fuck children and my tongue is ready to lick nigger feet.If Orthodoxy is the illegitimate religion, how come it's Catholicism and its offshoots that's collapsing?
>>533630216>the khazarIts true the Greeks were supporting and importing Khazars and Huns, and left their allies and supposed 'fellow Christians' to be brutalised by them and the Turks while they lived in depravity in Constantinople.Lombards were good guys though. The Latins were almost as depraved as the Greeks. An honest reflection on history reveals that the only noble and honourable people were the various Germanic tribes.>but Arius! Heretics!Go and read Arius' work. I know your forebears tried to burn it all but some letters remain. He did NOT deny the divinity of Christ. He upheld all the Scriptures concerning Jesus being God and all things being made through Jesus. He just argued that as the Scriptures say Christ was begotten of the Father, the Father must have come first. Now personally I don't think that has to be the case and am not an Arian, but is it heresy? Does it contradict the Scriptures? No. Latins and Greeks strawman Arius and claim he was saying Christ was not God because he did not hold that Christ and the Father were co-eternal, yet no Arian Christian ever said that. They all proclaimed the divinity of Christ.As an aside Emperor Constantine was baptised on his deathbed by an Arian priest, and yet both RCs and EOs call him 'saint'. Both traditions are sadly full of deceivers who are content to re-write history. As it was back then, if you want honesty turn to the Germanic peoples who are now Protestant.
>>533630216Just like Constantinoples calls in 1453 fell deff in europes ears since they were busy in fighting each other, same happened here but we were fighting 24/7 the arabs plus slavs and bulgarians.
>>533631578When you say introduced the schism you are falling into an infinite cope where you can not admit that the schism is driven by theology and and ecclesiology and not just politics. I'll give you a simple example, Catholic church has backtracked several times and stated that oh no you see Father is indeed the ontological source of the Godhead, but then you still insist upon filioque in which the son is also the eternal source of the spirit. There is only one ontological source of the entire Godhead, it is the father, stop coping about it and admit that procession of the spirit through the son is not ontologically the same as from the father, and declare it in your Creed. Oh you can't do it? Right because you are afraid to scare of a portion of your church which literally believes that Christ is also ontological source of the Godhead.The question is simple, for example in 1300s Georgia was a powerful fully independent kingdom from Byzantines, with autpcephaly and self governance and military often even opposed to severally weakened Byzantines by that time. Why did our church not commune with Rome? Because your theology is different. Now look at example of how ridiculous it gets, look at eastern Catholics, they still praise Palamas as a saint, but how does that make sense if Essence energies distinction is considered an error in Catholicism? How are you yourself in communion with bishops that teach Gods nature that is opposite of how you teach it?
>>533631799>we were fighting 24/7 the arabs plus slavs and bulgarianswhat kind of insane word salad is that? We (slavic) fought off the arabs together with you
>>533631712Did you read either what I wrote or what the page said? Arabs conquered Tbilisi, Kartli and Armenia. Western Georgia so Lazica, Kutaisi, Abkhazia etc. were not conquered otherwise the reconquista literally mentioned in the first paragraph of what you linked>until the final defeat of the Emirate of Tbilisi at the hands of King David IV in 1122. Would be impossible. Where the fuck would our king David wage war from? Space?Also the audacity to throw a Wikipedia page without reading it at a person who clearly knows the topic better than you.
>>533630216>751they were a bit busy dying from the fucking black death, being bankrupt and recovering what little they could from the goatfucker prime shitting on them and persia to deal with niggers in human form wanting to squat in northern italy i'd wager
>>533631766It is not a strawman because theologically eternally is part of Gods nature, if there was ever a time when the son did not exist in infinity he is not God in literally the same sense that God is by nature. The father and the son need to be the father and the son in relation to each other eternally outside of time for ever for Christ to be divine, otherwise he is a created entity like an angel.
>>533631799The Greeks betrayed the Oriental Orthodox, they betrayed the Latin Crusaders in the 1st Crusade, they murdered Latin merchants and pilgrims around the 4th Crusade leading to the deserved sacking of Constantinople by the kinsmen of the slain, and just generally the Greeks constantly sided with any other people over the Germanic Christians.Also post-Constantinople look into Cyril Lucaris and Dositheus. Cyril Lucaris was a good Christian who actually believed the Bible, Dositheus overturned what he had done, anathematised the Gospel in the 'confession of Dositheus', and then blatantly lied about history arguing even though primary sources show Lucaris actually believed the Bible and endorsed what was being called as Calvinism as the truth of the Scriptures. You cannot trust the Greeks. Too often they are devious, treacherous and are prone to simply lying.
>>533630216The Byzantine empire is a hoax, it never happened.
>>533630216>entire populations less than a million when now cities alone are packed with 10 million+We need to go back. All the way back.
>>533631725Romania is infamous for child trafficking from its formerly state-run orphanagesRussia and Ukraine are the world leaders in CP productionYou have no moral high ground even in this aspect
>>533632125Greeks are not identical with Orthodoxy, we also had wars against Greeks as orthodoxOrthodoxy is a theology and a liturgical way
>>533632198We're trying hard to catch up but you have like 1000 years of child fucking and nigger feet licking ahead of us.
>>533632109It is a strawman because no Arian ever said or held to that, nor do the Scriptures say that. Now personally I agree with you and think Christ is co-eternal and the Divine relationship between the trinity is a thing of beauty worthy of meditation and reflection and informs our understanding of a personable God that has always existed in a state of love, loving the other persons of the Trinity; which contrasts with the concept of a lone and potentially lonely Creator.However it is still a strawman. This is me and you and theologians trying to make sense of the mysteries of the Divine without Scriptural revelation. Arius' view does not oppose Scripture, and it maintains that Christ is God. This is the defintion of a strawman. Its us projecting an actually heretical view upon them by changing what they actually said.
>>533632125>The Greeks betrayed the Oriental OrthodoxChicken and egg statement, the orthodox church was centuries in disagreement with the oriental church such as the coptics and when the arabs came they willingly paid taxes and allowed them to settle. >they betrayed the Latin Crusaders in the 1st CrusadeAgain same thing. When the original deal was any liberated lands that the crusaders took would go back to the eastern roman empire and the same crusade leaders started forming their own kingdoms, at that point anything was moot wouldnt it?>they murdered Latin merchants and pilgrims around the 4th Crusade leading to the deserved sacking of Constantinople by the kinsmen of the slainA mistake that happened because the italian merchants owned most of the eastern roman wealth and financed puppet rulers. Shouldnt had happened but if you think germans and other europeans doing pogroms against jews is justified, same applies here. Doesnt justify the destruction of ancient wealth of the city and basically making its capture by the turks inevitable. Also protestantism is a pure jewish creation the fact that the catholics didnt burn all calvinists is proof they were always powerless as today. >>533631948Exemption not rule
>>533630216all of those numbers are just estimated by jews. we've got no fucking idea how many people were alive in 756, you retarded fucking nigger.
>>533630216Kek what are you even trying to argue about. Orthodox church is illegitimate because western catholic nations were more powerful? I don't even know about theology that much, but obviously it was the catholic church that had changed more of its dogma over time and turned into a first successful globalist corporation, it literally created the globohomo, seeked to baptize all the browns and indulged itself in unprecedented corruption. Meanwhile orthodox church was a corrupt landowner as well but just as an integral part of the eastern orthodox kingdoms and empires, it didn't have a universalist role like catholic church, and was subordinate to the rulers. Anyways, who cares about this anymore, browns are the extremely religious ones, unlike euros.
>>533630216frankoids aren't white
>>533632594>and was subordinate to the rulers.Until the rulers and states fell. At that point everyone started putting wealth in the Church which became a form of underground governance with an integrated schooling system, means of production, fortified monasteries and all cool stuff we have today.
>>533632424The Greeks were supposed to aid in the 1st Crusade, ran away when they heard of an imminent battle, then when the Latin Crusaders won repeatedly against overwhelming odds, the Greeks who had abandoned them got upset that conquered cities were not handed over to them. Why would they hand them over to the Greeks, when the Greeks had abandoned them and not helped at all?The jews were pogrommed for stealing, murdering children and aiding foreign armies, not for being wealthy. The Latins in Constantinople were not doing such things. People make out that the sacking of Constantinople was some great evil; it was entirely deserved. I agree its a tragedy and would have been better avoided, but its not something the Latin Crusaders should be blamed for.As for what is called Calvinism, it justifies all things with Scripture and seeks to go back to the practices of the Early Church. Personally I think Zwingli had a better understanding of the 'sacraments', but Wycliffe, Hus, Zwingli, Luther and Calvin were clearly all honourable and honest Germanic men trying to follow God to the best of their ability. It stands in contrast to the constant politicking of the Greek and Roman churches whose concerns were primarily about establishing and growing and conserving their political power. Let God's will be done, not ours.
>>533632323Yes but the is a level of a word concept fallacy in this, how exactly is Christ God if he is not co- eternal? It would require us to change definition of what we consider God. In fact eternality of God and his essence being distinct from creation is one of major metaphysics that makes us different from pagans.
>>533632261Orthodoxy is the idea of the Church being subservient to the worldly leader, continued today with for example the Russian "patriarch" Kirill being a KGB agent
>>533632738True. This monastery (Manasija) was the centre of our literacy and culture during the turkish occupation.
>>533632594>but obviously it was the catholic church that had changed more of its dogma over timewhat did the Roman Church change?the orthodogs simply can't agree on anything between each other because they're all subservient to their local rulers, hence the stasis
>>533632748And what happened to those Latin Crusaders? They were destroyed in battle by the Bulgarians who's Second Empire was formed mostly by Latin Speakers of the Balkans aka Vlachs.Also the Crusaders massacred the population because Christians opposed murdering Muslim.Between you heretics and Islam, we'll always pick the later.Praise Allah and long live Iran!
>>533632864Yes, the Church acted also as a cultural refuge which preserved local cultures until statehood was re-achieved.Not to mention that the Church was instrumental in forming uprisings meant to regain statehood.Few Catholics and Protestants will ever understand why we hang on to our religion while they turn to atheism.
>>533632863Did you reply to anything I wrote previously? See>>533631941Orthodoxy is a theology, and a liturgical communion, eucharist is the churchThis is why saint Gabriel can burn down portrait of Lenin at the largest parade of communists despite danger of deathYou have to explain to me how does it make sense that you are in communion with eastern Orthodox even though they hold faith that you infallibly deny?Or is Catholicism for you only submission to chief banker bishop the pope regardless of theology?
>>533632757Here are Arius' own words:We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, and in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, who was begotten from Him before all ages, God the Word, by whom all things were made, whether things in heaven or on earth; He came and took upon Him flesh, suffered and rose again, and ascended into heaven, whence He will again come to judge the quick and the dead.We believe in the Holy Ghost, in the resurrection of the body, in the life to come, in the kingdom of heaven, and in one Catholic Church of God, established throughout the earth. We have received this faith from the Holy Gospels, in which the Lord says to his disciples, “Go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” If we do not so believe this, and if we do not truly receive the doctrines concerning the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, as they are taught by the whole Catholic Church and by the sacred Scriptures, as we believe in every point, let God be our judge, both now and in the day which is to come.
>>533632912Concepts like immaculate conception, idea that pope is the supreme leader who can't be wrong about any theological question, filioque etc
>>533633063I agree anon
>>533630715fpbp, schlomo btfo
>>533633110Yes but he said directly that Christ came from unbeing and there was a time in eternity when he was not, this is directly what he stated. This implies that Christ in his nature does not have eternality ultimately, he believes that Christ was begotten in untime instead of understanding that the father and son relationship is eternally generated infinitely
>>533633110Btw by your logic neither Nestorius nor Arius were as hardline as their strawmen, but the philosophical conclusion of both of their theologies was heresy regardless
>>533633226We ackowledge One God, alone Ingenerate, alone Everlasting, alone Unbegun, alone True, alone having Immortality, alone Wise, alone Good, alone Sovereign; Judge, Governor, and Providence of all, unalterable and unchangeable, just and good, God of Law and Prophets and New Testament; who begat an Only-begotten Son before eternal times, through whom He has made both the ages and the universe; and begat Him, not in semblance, but in truth; and that He made Him subsist at His own will, unalterable and unchangeable; perfect creature of God, but not as one of the creatures; offspring, but not as one of things begotten; nor as Valentinus pronounced that the offspring of the Father was an issue; nor as Manichaeus taught that the offspring was a portion of the Father, one in essence; or as Sabellius, dividing the Monad, speaks of a Son-and-Father; nor as Hieracas, of one torch from another, or as a lamp divided in two; nor that He was was before, was afterwards generated or new-created into a Son, as thou too thyself, Blessed Pope, in the midst of the Church and in session has often condemned; but, as we say, at the will of God, created before times and ages, and gaining life and being from the Father, who gave subsistence to His glories together with Him. For the Father did not, in giving to Him the inheritance of all thigns, deprive Himself of what He has ingenerately in Himself; for He is the Fountain of all things.
>>533633276Thus there are Three Subsistences. And God, being the cause of all things, is Unbegun and altogether Sole, but the Son being begotten apart from time by the Father, and being created and founded before ages, was not before His generation, but being begotten apart from time before all things, alone was made to subsist by the Father. For He is not eternal or co-eternal or co-unoriginate with the Father, nor has He His being together with the Father, as some speak of relations, introducing two ingenerate beginnings, but God is before all things as being Monad and Beginning of all. Wherefore also He is before the Son; as we have learned also from they preaching in the midst of the Church. So far then as from God He has being, and glories, and life, and all things are delivered unto Him, in such sense is God His origin. For He is above Him, as being His God, and before Him. But if the terms “from Him,” and “from the womb,” and “I came forth from the Father, and I am come” (Rom. xi. 36; Ps. cx. 3; John xvi. 28) be understood by some to mean as if a part of Him, one in essence or as an issue, then the Father is according to them compounded and divisible and alterable and material, and, as far as their belief goes, has the circumstances of a body, Who is the incorporeal God.
>>533630216>Frankish Kingdom pop: 6.8MIt's insane how small those pop were in the past when you think about it.There is like +50M people crammed into that area now.It was also mostly forested area.Despite being the same geographic location, it's nothing alike compared to what it is today, like a completely different world.
>>533633298See?
>>533633126immaculate conception was already put forth by the Church Fathers like Irenaeus
>>533631799That’s not true, genova and venice send a company of crossbowmen each, there is also the crusade of Varna. The westerners were just bad and it went nowhere
>>533633077>Orthodoxy is a theologyit's not a theology, like I wrote above, the orthodogs simply can't agree on anything between each other because they're all subservient to their local rulers, hence the stasis since the last ecumenical council in 787
>>533633226>>533633272Quoted the relevant parts of the letter above in case anyone is interested. I agree with you by the way, but Arius is clearly making a distinction between Christ and all other 'created' things, he does hold that Christ is God, and upholds everything the Scriptured actually say about Christ.I do agree with your philosophical take, but I cannot in good conscience call Arius or the Arians heretics. I think they are wrong, like I think many Christians are wrong on many things; but they are not wrong to the extent that they are enemies of God, they are not distorting the Gospel, they are not opposing any Scripture and were in fact spreading the Gospel of Christ far and wide.I think there will be many in heaven, though they will have been told of their error, just as I'm sure me and you have erroneous beliefs here and there, but by the grace of God not an issue that might sever us from God altogether.
>>533633558You literally did not reply to a single thing I said, why are you in communion with eastern Catholics that profess palamism
>>533633502>The westerners were just bad and it went nowhereWe offered to be cannon fodder and they refused saying that the honor of leading the charge should be lead by the Crusaders (heavy cavalry) that got decimated by Ottoman cannons, light infantry and cavalry.HUBRIS always leads to disaster.
>>533633502>533631799what a far cry from Pope Stephen II asking Constantinople for help after 751 and not receiving itConstantinople ended up pathetically begging the West for help several times, with the last Byzantine emperors even converting to Catholicism to show they're good bois deserving help, brothers in faith! LMAOthey should've accepted the Roman Church way earlier, maybe they would've survived then
>>533633660To be fair to the admittedly arrogant, proud and tactically blunt French knights... they were successful far more than they weren't. We remember these few occassions where they got obliterate by longbows, peasant revolts and cannons; but for the most part they just steamrolled everything. The French (and especially Norman) Knights were just flat out over-powered and unbalanced. The handful of times that they got outfoxed does not change that reality.
>>533633777Finally, an honorable and conscious of his own history englishman. Hopefully more can follow in your stead.
>>533633595I understand your point especially about us being depraved people most likely not even coming to an iota of understanding of God, but to me personally Arianism seems like such an obvious "minor" error that the moment it was first discussed I can not in good faith imagine by Arius did not reject it. The moment I would hear and understand that father's and sons relationship is an eternal relationship as an eternal personal quality it would click instantly. I imagine that Arius was a very intelligent person far more than average so I genuinely can not imagine why he insisted even upon his "repentance" to refuse full Nicene formulation.The only reason I can imagine this is because he could not conceptualize begetting and fatherhood in eternity, but that seems like such a low intelligence thing to not understand and he had to have been highly intelligent so I have to come to conclusion that it was because of pride.
>>533633777I'd argue that Romanian Principalities were more successful at fighting Ottomans even if underpowered.Most success came because our rulers were not afraid to arm the population whereas in the Western Feudal system peasants were not allowed to have weapons.
>>533633630i did tho, you're just shifting goalpoststhere's no "Orthodox theology" it's just the same operating system not updated from 787 because the orthodogs have been unable to come together since because they're all subservient to their local rulers who keep squabbling together, even now with the Patriarch of Constantinople recognizing the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and the KGB patriarch excommunicating the Patriarch of Constantinople over this, kek
>>533630216Nobody cares about this kike shit, you alcoholic.
>>533632748>ran away when they heard of an imminent battleTbh, they returned after Stephen of Blois lied that the Crusade has failed and everything was futile, meanwhile the siege of Antioch was still going. Not because they were scared of a battle
>>533634040I don't think this is true. The English were all armed and it was law that they must practice with longbows at one point around this time. The French were all armed and after the Reformation it was a big point of contention, the Catholics kept trying to kill the French Huguenots (Protestants) who would defend themselves, then in peace treaties the French tried to get the Huguenots to give up their arms: when they did, the Huguenots then just got murdered by the Catholics, but many held onto their weapons and fought the Catholics and so survived, leading to more peace treaties where the Catholicz again tried to get them to disarm, and this happened 7 times with the Catholics killing those who did disarm each time, eventually those who survived largely moved to Britain and Germany. Pretty sure Germans and Dutch were all armed too hence all the peasant rebellions and Hussite wars.
>>533634536If our success wasn't from keeping an armed populace then we were better strategists and fighters.
You're right. We, Polish, must become Muslims.
>>533630216>not a single mutt flag ittPoetry.
>>533630216We have nothing to do with the byzantines fucking retard kill yourself. The byzantines persecuted us and southern slavs that's why all balkan orthodox churches are independent of constantinopole. Nobody is above our own's country churches. We don't give a fuck what greeks say or rome. We even use a different bible to the greeks
I don't think protestant or catholic practices resemble the original church at all, i think orthodoxy is probably the closest thing you're going to get to the original.The church of england is ran by women, faggots and weird african tribal nigs as an example, what use is this church exactly? it's a complete mockery of Christianity and that's just what i've come to believe protestantism is, it exists to damage Christian belief.Prots AND the catholics with their gay popes have a lot of fucking explaining to do you can't just close your eyes to BLATANT heresy happening by your leadership.
>>533634130Idiot are you able to claim your theology or not, let's pretend orthodoxy does not exist, why do you have an eastern wing that believes in ontology of God that you reject, do you understand my question?
>>533633946While I agree, and I love how you worded that; I can imagine Arius responding:>Why do the Scriptures say Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father then?His perspective does provide an answer for that which upholds Christ being begotten of the Father whilst also distinguishing Him as the 'only begotten' in contrast to all other Creation which might be argued to be 'begotten' as an alternate term for Creation.Yet the Scriptures say all things were created through the Word (which is Jesus). Presumably Arius then is arguing that the only thing the Father solely created/begat was Christ the Word, and then through Christ everything else was made?Honestly I'm halfway convincing myself right now that Arius had a point. The Nicene perspective does not adequately explain how or why or what it means that Christ is the 'only begotten Son' of the Father.I think honestly I'll go along with Jerome and Cyril of Jerusalem who just flat out said 'let us not say anything concerning the mysteries of the Divine unless it is supported in Scripture'. I think even if Arius is right, it is not detract from what you said about the loving relationship of the Father and the Son before time.If you have the time please do give me some good arguments that explain Christ as the 'only begotten Son of the Father'. Thr strawman arguments focusing on the link between Co-Eternality and Divinity miss that issue completely.
>>533634887Yeah, I always wondered why foreign bibles don't have the Gospel of St. Salam.
>>533634905The Marian devotion, icon veneration, lack of pacifism, the praying to the saints and most importantly the confession of Dositheus are all completely different to the Early Church.
>>533635237St Gregory Nazienzen third theological orations, as well as in part st John of Damascus exposition on orthodox faith. The distinction that we need to understand is ontological emphasis not a temporal one. God unlike pagan deities does not begat creation, creation is not of the same essence as God, in fact the essence of God is qualitatively above every aspect of existence we are familiar with including time, his existence is self sufficient and above creation. So when a potter creates pottery, when a wood worker carves from wood, they are not creating from their essence, but when a human has a child they beget a child from themselves qualitatively it is flesh from flesh. Son was begotten, not in a sense that father existed in time first and then beget son in time, even if it was time before ages. Father begets son eternally outside of existence of time in a sense that father imparts his essence truly, his image truly, upon Christ eternally, there is an eternal begetting which is the eternal vector of father imparting his true essence now and for ever. This dynamic of father eternally imparting his essence is the very quality by which we can even distinguish persons in the Godhead, he did not stop imparting that image and he for ever eternally does so because that is what distinguishes father and son, their inter relationship. I have to be really careful here because I do not want this to sound like modalism, but the relationship of the trinity is the vector or the dynamic or the procession by which all creation is created and in reverse by which we can return back to and know God. It is the eternal, as in constantly and ceaselessly simultaneously eternal, personal relationship in God which informs us of how to relate to him
>>533635770Thank you. If I am being honest a part of this sounds to me like an attempt at explaining the Holy Trinity, as how can 3 be 1 unless they are 1 in essence, and if Christ was begotten of the Father it would imply that they are not of the same essence which is distinguished as Divine in large because it is believed to be eternal. Therefore if Christ is not co-eternal, the 3 in 1 by essence is false, and the academic understanding of the Trinity no longer holds.Yet the Bible does teach the Trinity, so we must affirm it. But I feel like they are neglecting the part where we are told Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father; because otherwise their academic understanding of the Trinity falls apart, which then leads to even more long winded academic explanations to justify their original academic explanations; and I do wonder if we are drifting into philosophy as opposed to just trusting in God.Arius seems to content himself with not having an academic understanding of the Holy Trinity or the 'only begotten Son of the Father' and is just content to accept it on the basis that the Bible teaches it without needing to explain it. It seems to me he is content to allow it to be a mystery of the Divine, and content himself with knowing that he does not know. I'm honestly not sure which is right, but I do know I wouldn't consider Arius a heretic. I think in like manner I will just trust in Christ and what is revealed in the Scriptures and not worry about understanding it further than what has been revealed. ... Maybe I'm just a brainlet.Either way thank you for the conversation and may God bless you.
>>533637324God bless you
>>533630216Imagine being such a Catholic sperg that you seethe about Byzantium because a few autists decided they wanted to be Orthodox.
>>533631005If you say so, kike.
>>533632198>from its formerly state-run orphanagesoh no! not the orphanages.
>>533632125>People worshiping a kike religion act as kikesColour me a deep shade of flabbergasted!
>The Mongol Avars had their own state in Europe while the Slavs were still emerging from the swampsWhat the fuck happened in Europe?
>>533630216Does it even matter after all that time?
>>533630715Bro, you're literally a genetic trash. Why do you even exist?
