The greatest trick ever played on the American people was convincing The working class to care more about the dime that the taxman takes than the tens of thousands of dollars your employer is underpaying you.
>>533644659>filename
Why don't workers pool their resources and make their own companies? They would take 100% of the profits that way
>>533644659Most libertarians would tell you that you are under paid for your labor and that's largely your own fault. Most will never see corporations as tyrannical because at least in premise the interactions are voluntary.
>>533644761you will never win unless you impose yourself or lie.
>>533644659Libertarians and marxists are the same.You both believe in the farce of natural law.
>>533644895Farce of natural law anon?
>>533644761It’s called unionizing and it’s illegal.
brazil truly is a politically incorrect country
>>533644659i still don’t understand the lolbert’s beliefs about human nature. >government is greedy and evil and corrupt always>people are naturally trustworthy though>corporations only care about maximization of profit and not control (?)>therefore corporate entities are morally righteous even though they don’t have any incentive to be ethical or value human life(?)i don’t like gay western democracy either but an ideal government cares about and protects its citizens from corporate exploitation AND foreign threats, governments have to exist to make your life not a living slavery hell
>>533644950Yes.Specifically, you both believe property rights precede the state.Truth is, taxes aren't theft because the legal code is created to exclude taxes from its definition of theft.
>>533645056Libertarians are corrupt because they complain that government just gets in the way of business (except when they settle disputes, enforce contracts, delineate property rights, and all of the other shit that makes large-scale business possible in the first place)Non-collectivist anarchists are unironically more admirable
My mom is a librarian
>>533644961marxians are mostly allies they keep my money in the game by socialising profits instead of just socialised risk and private profits. the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world was pushed by an iraqi not even a norwegian. we live closer to heaven now. trust me bro. life is so much better with them around then not.
>>533644659Business owners earn about 10 percent of all incomes in the economy (in the form of profits). Wage earners make 80%; with the reminder (like bank interest) being hard to qualify and possibly earned by either of them.Your picture is a pure, fraudulent leftard propaganda. Like all leftard propaganda.You guys divide by zero; nuff said. Simple addition is not your forte.
that means you can take more risks. cant you see?
>>533644761that's called a cooperativethey do exist and there are some success stories among them, but generally they underperform and get outcompeted by real businessesthe problem is that such cooperatives are subject to incentives that discourage risk taking, innovation, advancement and growth. over time this results in a situation where they stagnate and get left behind by real companies.like, when there's surplus resources, the cooperative members (workers) will just pay themselves out by putting more into wages and benefits like pensions, whereas a real company will look to use those resources to expand and grow.
>>533644761This is what cooperatives do and they exist all across capitalist societies, but people like to pretend they're not a thing for some reason, which tells you that socialists are full of it when they tell you their objective is collective control of the means of production
>>533644659The other stuff is somewhat voluntary (you are not forced to work for them). But you are forced to pay taxes.That is why this distinction is made.
>>533644659based, kill CEOs with guns now
>>533645734yeah because the cooperative exists under a capitalist system and doesn’t enjoy the full liberation and POWER of socialism. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
>>533644659Libertarians believe in the Subjective Theory of Value. They don't believe there is such a thing as "surplus value extracted from your labor", because they don't believe labor is what creates value. Instead they believe the value of goods and services is what someone is willing to voluntarily pay for them.
>>533644659Libertarians told me their society was the most free but all it did was make everything smell like weed all the time and make it so the average first exposure to Internet porn is age 10. No thanks, I'll take some nanny state if this is the alternative.
>>533645982Reminder that Luigi grew up a rich kid and Brian Thompson grew up poor and made something of himself.
>>533644961How can you type unionizing I thought the word was filtered?
>>533646410>all of society is weed and pornYou’re mentally 14 years old
>>533645982Hi elon still pushing your town rapist kid who didn't shoot no ceo?
>>533645056Ah yes, the government is corrupt, so the solution to government corruption is more government.>>533646410Is this libertarian society here in the room with us?
>>533645185You can’t defend your own property with violence before the creation of a state?It seems increasingly that a state is the one thing that stops you from doing that.
>>533644659I work a job, and my boss gives me a salary I find fair. What's the issue here?
>>533646869Isn't there somebody you forgot to ask?
>>533646436No you see you should support the rich mutt kid roidtranny instead of the white family man that came from one of the poorest towns of America, excelled in schools and succeeded.
>>533644961>it’s illegalIn your socialist hellhole maybe
OP are you still here?Care to explain to the class how there is such a thing as surplus value extracted from labor, and it's actually labor that creates value?Try not to get oneshotted by the fact that labor intensive activities which produce no value happen to exist, such as digging a ditch and filling it back in.
Man, why are commies so bad at defending their own theories...?
>>533650117Because jews run the media and that’s where goys get their perception of commie theories.
>>533644659The surplus value isn't that big even if you believe the labor value theory, and the proportion of TOTAL taxes owed is much higher. In europe total taxation is easily 55% or more, so fix your graph and then you might have a shred of a point.I'm not sure why you Marxists must lie like this, as if you didn't believe your own fucking theories. I weep for Marx who had an amazing, if flawed intuition, just to have you retards misuse it constantly instead of improving on it
>>533651491Taxes don’t apply to the rich, apple germany claims it generates no profits because it owes all the money to a company in ireland that holds the intellectual property, that entity gets the money and is basically exempt from taxes in ireland.Many such cases, only goys get tax farmed.
>>533650117this, i'm not a commie and i do a better job>>533649352Because it's not extracted from the worker's wage directly, but from the consumer through prices. The problem is that every worker is also a consumer, which is where the trick comes in. Your boss doesn't steal your value when you work or get paid a wage, your value is stolen when you purchase the goods you yourself or other workers made at a surplus price, which is why when i worked in a factory we had the employee store with better prices. That's no different than selective price controls.Again, in Marx' time this made more sense, in today's time the surplus stolen is an institutionalized theft through inflation and finance that steal from both workers AND businesses, which is why every successful company must become large to have financial power and investor participation after getting market capture. They need the subtracted value reinvested in them.Marx had predicted and wrote about that, even though it was barely being discussed in his time. Finance and Banking and investment funds now syphon the surplus value from the real economy as a whole. It's still absolutely true that if you neuter finance, the business owners syphon it anyway, but in that case you have the side-effect of huge growth and development as shit is constantly made, if you control for monopolies (look at China today)Marx didn't get that surplus is a necessary engine to have efficient business at all, but where that surplus goes is what matters. If it goes back to workers: inefficiency and stagnationif it goes back to businesses: monopoly and low quality goodsif it goes to finance and government: inflation and debtif it goes into society's development: prosperityThe latter is why NatSoc can be so effective. A good leader can force the businesses to compete in fields where society can develop. It has its downsides too though..
>>533652837Ok, thanks for the effortpost. I'm still not convinced that labor creates value, but I can see how value can be extracted from you, when you have to pay "cost+margin" for goods you were initially paid just "cost" to create.I'll have to think about this.
>>533652837Though, I suppose, you usually only need one car, right? And when you work in a car factory, you make many cars, and get paid for making many cars? And you only pay this surplus once? And the rest of your income goes towards other things.How big of an effect is this really?
>>533646436>Brian Thompson grew up poor and made something of himself.And where is that faggot now? Getting fucked in the ass by Satan's red hot poker every day for denying thousands of people life saving treatment?
>>533644961Starting a business with your bros is definitely not illegal
>>533644961that's not what a union is.doesn't matter anyways it's entirely rigged as well. memberships elect leaders who take bribes from the employers to stick their members with a shitty contract, then force it through by stuffing the ballot box. Congrats, we got you 2 more years of slavery for low pay.
>>533655290>Starting a business with your bros is definitely not illegalYea, your retarded Sneeds Feed and Seed store is totally going to work out bro. You will be a billionaire in no time. Stupid low IQ retarded faggot.
>>533644659"wealthy" people actually believe they alone create value and thus deserve to be wealthy kek
>>533644659Let me explain how reality actually works, yyou sad unemployed imbecile. I happened to look at my company's accounting and it is pretty much like pic related
>>533644659Commie cocksucker's diagram>Taxes make up ~2% of earningsReality >Federal spending is 23% of GDP>Includes money borrowed that will be left for future generations to pay back.
Saying that profit is theft has a symmetry with saying that taxation is theft. Both refuse to acknowledge that life does not consist of discrete logic gates in which individuals are routinely asked whether or not they consent to every condition within a system. Also, a new system does not have to be created for that individual alone according to his or her response. Systems are selected for amongst the great majority of people through their decisions. The great majority of people have selected for taxation through their voting and political activity generally. People have selected for profit by preferring to work for and buy from companies that have a profit model. This is likely because businesses that invest in themselves become higher quality to such an extent that the investment allows for returns that generate better outcomes for workers and consumers. I'm tired of unnecessary moralism in economic discussions.
>>533659970>I'm tired of unnecessary moralism in economic discussions.>just let me be as greedy as I want without any blowback!Could you be any more of a kike?
>>533660591This mindset is why both the American right and left think of taxation as a punishment and only disagree insofar as they believe the punishment is warranted. You have the same cognitive architecture as a voodoo nigger who can't think beyond primitive tribal dynamics. Try to actually understand mechanical systems one day, not just systems of social status determination. Economics is not the question of who should be considered "good" or "bad."
>>533660850>voodoo nigger
>>533660850Economics will never be untethered from morality you selfish kike.
