why did people in the early 2010s pretend they were libertarians ? was Ron Paul a serious candidate or was it all just bullshit
he wanted to end the federal reservecan’t get more serious than that
>>533942403The system funneled young men into libertarianism after the corruption of the dubya/early Obama years. That let the following happen:>tea party got taken over by Eric Cantor/Paul Ryan types>Mitt Romney threw the 2012 election>Obama implemented gay race communism Those men realized libertarianism is another op and embraced populism. Not saying Ron Paul is an op, it's just not a serious philosophy or governing principle.
Libertarianism was a racist-without-saying-I'm-racist movement. Ie. I don't want to pay for niggers, let them suffer the consequences of their own actions.Today the mask is off and people just openly say they don't want niggers.
>>533942403I would say the main motivator was the Iraq War. Ron Paul gave people a framework to trust their intuition on that abomination without siding with the grimy leftists.
I was a serious Ron Paul supporter. Sad to see what /pol/ has become
>>533942944I think it's the other way around. Libertarianism I think receives an enormously incongruent amount of hatred on this board for how little influence libertarians have (or even want) in government. I chalk this up to propaganda. It's fine to debate whether or not pot should be legal, but the guy saying that the government should have no say over it is an enemy to both sides, and more dangerous than either because he challenges legitimacy rather than just wisdom.
>>533942403libertarianism is just being a liberalpaul favors gay marriagepaul favors selling children to gayspaul favors drug abusepaul favors open borderspaul favors free tradebut END THE FEDjust embarassing.
>>533942403I was a Ron Paul '08 and '12 supporter, then my frontal lobe fully developed.
>>533942403Back in 2008 Ron Paul was a reasonably serious candidate for president, with large online support from the Something Awful forums, which is where basically all internet nerds hung out. At the time, it was popular to bet your account on things, such as the outcomes of elections. Tons of people lost their accounts and didn't bother to re-register, leading to a leftward shift on the website and to the internet as a whole.
>>533942403Ron Paul was taken as seriously as Bernie.They weren’t pretending, they just hadn’t really thought about culture war stuff because it wasn’t being forced into the media. It wasn’t forced in until it had to be to end occupy Wall Street, and then the fake lolbertarians remembered they had religious schizophrenia and got caught up in the culture wars like cattle led by the nose.So now it’s back to being a fringe ideology for people that aren’t retarded sociopaths, but unfortunately the capital-L Libertarian Party was taken over by culture warriors so now it’s just MAGAts that smoke weed.If you aren’t fundamentally small-l libertarian when push comes to shove, you aren’t a human being or sentient and it isn’t wrong to remove you.
>>533943379The events of the 2010s led all among us save for the significantly mentally deficient to realize how Libertarianism has no answer to the issues of influence from subversive outsiders and coordinated internal corruption. "This is the ideal system in a well-regulated liberal society where everyone plays by the rules." Well, that's not what you're going to get, so it's a delusional pipedream. This was a majority libertarian board before people snapped out of it, which was around 2012. That's also around the time when Ron Paul won a few counties in the Republican primary and they simply decided to never report their numbers.
>>533942403Ron Paul is what happens when the establishment is actually against you. they would go so far as not mention his name when he was #1-2 in the polls in some areas and only bring him up when they had a goofy soundbite they could take out of context. Unlike trump where the media had him front and centre every day while constantly attacking him (obvious reverse psychology, because everyone hates the msm)
>>533943918>Libertarianism has no answer to the issues of influence from subversive outsiders and coordinated internal corruption. I beg to differ. It's partly because people are corrupt (another reason being that they're incompetent) that they shouldn't be trusted with a lot of government power. Many anons say that libertarians fundamentally assume that people are rarely corrupt, but it's the exact opposite. Otherwise libertarians would be fine with government officials having a lot of power, because they're trustworthy, but I don't think anyone would say that libertarians are generally trusting of government officials.
>>533942403The full reddit invasion of 4chan wasn't complete yet in the early 2010s.
>>533944359The trouble with it is it requires a hypervigilance from the citizens that eventually fails. I’ve been in a state that was famous for not having much by way of zoning laws or building permits in most places. Housing was cheap and well-built because it wasn’t clogged up with bullshit. One by one Karens and Kevins fucked up every town until now there are only a few left.
>>533942403It's become clear that libertarian POLITICIANS are frauds who want to do NOTHING. They want to get paid to DO NOTHING. They are status quo bitches. So they wont change the problems caused by previous administrations and wont allow anything new to happen. That's libertarianism to them. But people wanted Ron Paul for the same reason they wanted Trump. Stop spending money on wars. Wars we need to control global resources that WE BENEFIT FROM. America should be an EMPIRE, but it's faggy citizens refuse to allow it, because of lying liberals, and cheating commies. That's the REAL TRUTH.
>>533944563Oh and now we have a “housing crisis” because it’s so fucking difficult to get a damn thing built without sucking off ten oligarchs that know nothing about anything.
>>533944573>start war>lose control of resources that weren’t in any danger beforeGood job retard!
>>533944707>made up scenario>imaginary resultIf you could ever stop being a dishonest retard that made actual points, people might give your opinion some merit. Now go shoot up something to get some attention and make a statement. It's all you retards have left.
>>533944359And what steps in to fill that power vacuum is completely independent of and not beholden to the people, and has no incentive to abide by their customs or respect their rights. And they quickly subvert the system, take over, and now you're living under unelected tyranny with a standard of living, safety, lifestyle, etc completely dependent on the whims of those your limited, disempowered nation-state could not resist. Same issue as with anarchy.
>>533944563>>533944650>Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.I won't try to argue with that, but just because the population at large may fail in their duty of keeping an eye on their government doesn't mean that such oversight is a bad thing; in fact it implies that it's a good thing since its absence is a bad thing.You seem to be arguing that libertarian policies, like that keep government from interfering in the housing market, are good, and that when people deviate from these policies are when things get worse. I think we're actually on the same page.
>>533943539I saw Ron Paul speak yesterday. Not everyone is so easily molded by glowies and shills here.
>>533942944>>533943379The OG Ron Paul campaign was in 2007-2008… We had already soured of Neocons and Democrats and believed 9/11 was an inside job for the NWO, bilderburg’s and globalism before the tea party that got co-opted.
>>533944851This is a slippery slope. Let's go with the pot example: what makes you think that if it's agreed that government has no legitimate reason to ban pot, then someone else will step in, take over, and start enforcing their own pot bans?
>>533944511whats weird is that libertarians were at least socially accepted in both 4chan and reddit circles >https://youtu.be/SPDPpqkq8bY?si=52mehWIejY-3cx-9maybe thomas massie can tap into this if the epstein class stuff lasts until 2028 (skeptical)
>>533944845Tell me more about how bombing a children’s school lowered gas prices
>>533942403a lot of libertarian old fags were just teenagers who didn't know better myself included
>>533945020Yes, I’m a disillusioned libertarian. Fundamentally 95+% of people are evil, retarded animals that deeply desire nothing but to suffer and be enslaved while inflicting suffering on others. Brave new world, 1984, etc are fundamentally not dystopias, and most “people” prefer it. They want to suffer and die, and it is arrogance to try to deny them that. All you can do is avoid them.
>>533944096leaf is surprisingly spot on.fox news hosted a debate and asked people to text who they thought won.of course ron paul won. fox took their sweet ass time with the result. I'm talking 30 minutes of propagannity and other dipshits yacking about nothing. finally announced, with an incredulous tone, that ron paul won the debate, and immediately made some excuses to discredit their own poll.lots of folks i know voted for him in the primary. electronic touchscreen voting machines. no votes for him were recorded in that county. fucking jews. every time
>>533942403He was serious enough they had to change the requirements on the floor of the republican convention to keep him from being nominated. That’s pretty serious. He had support and got fucked over by the establishment. He would have had my vote if he’d been allowed to run.
>>533945969Tell me how much more your hostile terrorist lefty governor raised your gas tax to trick your stupid ass. More made up bullshit. You keep eating that slop right up. My gas prices are under $4. They've never been that under Biden.
>>533943392Root word here is liberty. You don’t like freedom?
>>533945322You're failing to model the motivations and incentives of minds outside of your own. That's not really an issue an outside entity cares to expend resources on. Here's a better example: your libertarian government steps away from taxing citizens to fund police with the expectation that citizens will decide policing by subscribing to the private policing plan of their choice. An outside state sees a benefit to investing capital to decide how laws are enforced in a specific region of interest, so they fund their own private police force to set up shop in that area. "But wait," you say, "policymakers in our current system can also be bought!" Yes, this is not to say that we have a good system. It's to say that libertarianism is inherently flawed, but also that the issues of our era can not be solved by a specific silver bullet political ideology. Our issues are corruption, malevolent outside influence, and failure of the majority to exhibit in-group preference. Assuming a government that actually wasn't malevolent, only a powerful, centralized government would be able to help us. Assuming government is malevolent or at least wholly callous and uncaring, there isn't a specific political configuration that's going to help us with the problems we currently have.
You telling me all you faggots do not like freedom?
>>533946436Yeah the only reason I believed Berniebros with zero looking into it was because I already saw it happen with paul.
>>533942403We weren’t pretending; we were naive to how many retards, sociopaths, and cowards inhabit this country. Simple as.
>>533946960I don’t drive a car because I make real money sorry. I have no idea what gas costs.
>>533947115Private police is ancap bullshit not lolbertarian.
It was legit because Democrats had completely failed to regulate banking after OWS. People wanted an alternative that wasn't Clinton or Bush. Ron Paul was that.And, largely, Ron Paul was right. Ron Wyden was right too. Most of Obama's critics on the left were right. Trump has demonstrated where there must be strict controls on the Presidency and why the President is not a King. Most Americans did not vote for a King, and now we have No Kings protests at the end of every month now. ex-Libertarians are in that because the GOP fucked them so bad.
>>533942403>or was it all just bullshitdo you really have to ask?
>>533947475so you have no arguement. I accept your concession.
>>533943063you're a nigger
>>533942403Besides pro dude weed and anti neo cohen wars lolberts get weird and annoying real fast
>>533942403You mean the tea party movement? It was wildly successful... for the politicians that pretended to agree with it.
>>533942403He was a good candidate even if he was a long shot. He was the first meme candidate and he even got support from the left. His son destroyed his legacy.
>>533942403It was all bullshit
>>533942403>was Ron Paul a serious candidate or was it all just bullshitIt was all bullshit. Jewish bullshit to be precise, broke up the voting base to give you obama
>>533942944>[liberty/libertarianism] is not a serious philosophy or governing pricinple.ok midwit chud
>>533947858Someone please tell me that zoomers/alphas aren’t being told the tea party and the Ron Paul libertarians were the same people.It’s like thinking MAGAts and Peter Thiel technocrats (complimentary) are the same people.
>>533948021McCain lost when he took the mic away from the lady who said Obama is Muslim. that was a blatant concession.
>>533942403>why did people in the early 2010s pretend they were libertarians ?Because we sympathized for people who felt their freedom to live their lives without the government getting in the way. Then troons and jeets showed up and demanded the freedom of policing the pronouns we used and scamming welfare while street-shitting. It pains me to say it, but libertarianism can only work after we've gotten rid of the foreigners and communists.
>>533949958>yessir I’m a libertarian >noooo i-is that a—-a person living their l-life the way they want? NOOOOOO HELP ME MIGGERMAN
>>533942403>news worthy threadno>politically relevant threadno, basically a redpill me on x thread>current event threadnowhy is OP always a faggot
>>533950170>noooo i-is that a—-a person living their l-life the way they want?Yeh... they're just convincing the school board to do drag queen story hour so your 7 yr old can learn that some women have penises and that they shouldn't be afraid of those women's penises bulging through their lingerie while they read "I Have Two Daddies" to the kids. Who wouldn't want the freedom to have that happen to your kids without being informed that it would happen or being allowed to opt out?
>>533948491who did obama run against? mccain? you think he wasnt owned by the jews also? You are one of those retards that actually thinks 1 party is there to help them, or any different than the other party
>>533942403Here's something i've done a lot of research on with my own experience. Those of us born in 80s or 90s had a great world. We were all basically non political or standard liberals. Liberal back then was not like today. Before SJW shit. But keep in mind too, the internet was ran by techs and nerdy men. We all had a free speech libertarian mindset. The guys who ran reddit and shit had it too. It was basically where we'd say things like, you know what republicans do. You hate them for trying to censor words, video games, moves, and music right? So here's this thing called libertarianism that is like if it doesn't hurt you, then it's not a bad thing. Live and let live. The government should fuck off and let us do as we please within the law. The internet was that too. Because all the runners were libertarian. We all saw how bad Bush took shit with post 9/11 laws and we hated it. But here's the thing. Social Justice came and ruined it. We realized you cannot have a libertarian society without a shared culture. SJW and more immigrants taught us that this was a utopia fantasy and they have no respect for what we did. Paul was the living embodiment of what we wanted. At the time. I always tell people communism just like libertarianism can only even be attempted in a smaller scale whites only nation. Doesn't work when people exist who don't obey it.
>>533942403I was a libertarian once.Libertarianism sounded like a cool alternative to israel worshipping republicuckery and braindead libshits. Made sense.But as grew older, and lived through the censorship wave that reached its apex on 2016, I realized that ibertarianism was all idealistic bullshit.Libertarianism doesn't work if you allow lying and manipulating psychos to peddle their lies to the normies. And normies are too retarded to even care.Today I just believe that politics is a waste of time, the whole system is broken and the best you can do is not get involved until the inevitable point where people start killing each other
>>533944851>And what steps in to fill that power vacuum is completely independent of and not beholden to the peopleThat's nonsense. A private company is far more beholden to their customers than the state is. If a private business was as shitty at policing as the police in my city they'd simply go out of business and some other company would step in to fill the void.>has no incentive to abide by their customs or respect their rightsThey have every incentive to do so. If you engage in anti-social behavior you are an insurance risk and this drives up costs and reduces property values. Not only would the actors engaging in uncivilized behavior be disincentivized by their own insurance costs either rising or having their insurance canceled entirely, but they'd also be under pressure from people around them who don't want to see their own insurance costs rise in response.>Same issue as with anarchy.Anarchy is even better about this.
>>533947508Ron Paul is basically an ancap these days, as are most libertarians. I think most libertarians think no state is preferable to even a limited state, but that a limited state is preferable to the current situation.>>533949958>Then troons and jeets showed up and demanded the freedom of policing the pronouns we used and scamming welfare while street-shitting. It pains me to say it, but libertarianism can only work after we've gotten rid of the foreigners and communists.So the solution to socialism and censorship is more government? The problems caused by those people you described were all invocations of state power. If we just ended welfare and got rid of the state propaganda apparatus the immigrants and trannies would fuck off and kill themselves respectively. We don't need more government to solve the problems the government causes, we just need to get them to stop causing them.
>>5339424032008 housing crisis happened followed by occupy wall st. It all got side tracked with pushing gay agenda, Obama saying Trevon Martin looked like his son (if he had one), and Trump shook up the election cycle from there.
>>533942403Nobody was pretending. We actually didn't want to live in an authoritarian hell hole. Kinda unthinkable, right? In fact, legend has it anime used to be liked unironically and no one wanted to ban it.>stupid, crazy lolbertarians lmao
>>533952182>But as grew older, and lived through the censorship wave that reached its apex on 2016, I realized that ibertarianism was all idealistic bullshit.I was like this too. It's a utopian ideology. It only really works in small city states where everyone is an intelligent business owner. Otherwise you would immediately get the evil libertarians exploiting their information advantage over the unintelligent to make deals to the detriment of the other party. No laws would prevent them from doing this.I'm all for implemented libertarianism in small special economic zones/citystates, seasteads, floating cityships or other micro-communities that only grown adults can enter and have to read a warning manifesto and sign a waiver before they do so.
>>533953005No, don't you understand? We need the government to save us from the culture war they started and the foreigners they are importing. We also need them to help us pay for things since prices keep rising, which couldn't possibly be related to all that money they keep printing. Stop being so naive as to think freedom is more important than those things.
>>533942403Libertarians support open borders. Non starter.
>>533942403At the time, libertarianism was a viable alternative at the time to resist the totalitarian creep of governments represented by leaders like Obama and Trudeau. However, things have now progressed to the point where we need a counter-revolution as represented by leaders like Trump.
>>533942403he was literally the guy you wanted if you were tired of more foreign war interests faggot
>>533942403libertarianism only works in an all white nation. realizing the scope of the problems the west faces pushed libertarians towards national socialism
>>533953129>>I was like this too. It's a utopian ideology. It only really works in small city states where everyone is an intelligent business owner. Otherwise you would immediately get the evil libertarians exploiting their information advantage over the unintelligent to make deals to the detriment of the other party. No laws would prevent them from doing this.That's stupid. They already do that with states, and states force people who know better to accept these unfair deals through threats of violence and enforcement of cartels. >I'm all for implemented libertarianism in small special economic zones/citystates, seasteads, floating cityships or other micro-communities that only grown adults can enter and have to read a warning manifesto and sign a waiver before they do so.Consider reading Hans-Hermann Hoppe. You basically described covenant communities.
>>533943186Same, keep in mind RP provided the data they needed to prevent another RP
>>533942403He was the real deal and he got brushed under the rug.>>533942944It's not that libertarianism was fake it's just that it's weak and ineffective to appeal to reason and right when you're dealing with third world animals who use your taxdollars to eat and not work.
>>533942403People still thought that not getting your NAP violently and repeatedly raped with a cactus by a bigger tribe was even remotely viable given human nature.
>>533953394States have welfare along with laws designed to protect low-information unintelligent citizens from ruthless exploitation by businesses. States aren't perfect (see college loans), but far better than what a libertarian society would allow. State courts can still tear up completely unbalanced contracts. My core argument is that a common type of libertarian will still argue for market access to low-information non-libertarian consumers (because of the financial incentive) and use their ideology as the justification for doing so. If all their potential customers were other libertarians then there would be a lot less potential for exploitation and scamming. This would be voluntarily 'opting in' which I thought was what Libertarianism is all about.
>>533953186Not to mention>If we don't have authoritarian government, we will have authoritarian corporations, which is just as badWhich means we have to give our government (which is owned by corporations) complete power. We wouldn't want corporations to be our givernment, now, would we?Example: >>533944851
IMO the Ron Paul people were always the same 15% or so of the right. The anti war messaging was never popular with normies.
>>533953933Thats a retarded opinion. The peace dividend used to be a really popular idea (although npcs can be goaded into war quite easily)
>>533951683>AHHH HELP RUN A BIG STUPID UGLY FAGGOTYou’re supposed to get over weird people existing in middle school, not migger out and destroy the country over it
>>533953933>>533954002Hell, most of the dissatisfaction Trump is getting right now is due to war. wtf are you talking about?
>>533942403you can't have libertarianism with jews and millions of browns.
>>533952182The fundamental problem is believing all people are entitled to one vote.No. Chuckfuck MacLowit should not be to have any say in electing President Manipulative Dumbass, or any other politician.The solution is twofold1) Verified competence to vote.Where people must first pass a standardized test of general competence. Such as basic literacy and numeracy skills, along with basic knowledge of civic laws.Set the standards so only half the population passes the test.Okay so that gets rid of the retards having any say in how a country is run.2) Weighted votingWhere the weight of one's vote is modified according to intelligence, skills, experience and responsibility.Now this means that the people with higher competence, critical thinking, and general intelligence get to have a much greater effect on the sort of government is elected.Set the range from 1 to 10,000.So your basic school leaver who has passed the verified competence test gets his basic 1 vote. Then as the years pass he receives incremental increases to his vote weighting as qualifications, experience and responsibilities grows. If 30 years later he became a medical doctor, now runs a medical clinic, and has a family, then he will receive a weighting of 10,000 votes.Of course the problem here is you need a complete collapse of existing society and all its laws, institutions and traditions before you could get that system working. Which is a shame becasue that is exactly what we need right now.
>>533951683>the school board>the school your kid is mandated to attend by law>damn libertarians, forcing my kid to go to gay class>an authoritarian state would have a voucher system or something
>>533942403Ron Paul /b/
>>533954056>dissatisfaction Trump is gettingI talk to boomers all the time. Who IRL has changed their opinion on Trump just because of the Iran war?
>>533953129>I'm all for implemented libertarianism in small special economic zones/citystates, seasteads, floating cityships or other micro-communities that only grown adults can enter and have to read a warning manifesto and sign a waiver before they do so.Chinas has done this really well. The CCP is closer to the lolbert dream in their special zones than the US ever got.
>>533942403I liked Ron Paul and I am not a republican or a liberal. I think both of those parties are mentally retarded fucking doofuses.Ron Paul was a threat. Much like occupy wallstreet was, in the effect of any actual real change starting before it could be infiltrated or usurped.wasnt that V for Vendetta movie going on at the time also? and the web had "alternative, truther" types out there who were not all washed down the drain?Conversations seemed more passionate or serious then. Now everyone seems afraid to be accused of wrongthink
>>533954158You just stated the problem. You talk to too many boomers. They aren't real people.>changing their opinionAnother factor is that, while war remains unpopular, there has been less war under trump than the alternatives, and the opposition is completely batshit in regards to everything else. That doesn't mean no one gives a shit about war. It's still an incredibly important topic.
>>533954133Lol real, one of the main things the big-L lolberts have done since invading NH is ripping up the schools and making homeschooling have ~zero oversight.
Let me dredge up my memory. Back in those times, you had a set of cultural issues which you were expected to have an opinion on. Death Penalty, abortion, torture, legalization of drugs....etc. But nobody really had strong opinions on those. Those were like fashion you changed to suit your mood. You also had wars going on, and while it was a matter of debate, pretty much everyone agreed Bush was a retard. The war supporters, when I was in school, were old boomers who nobody really identified with. So really, the key battleground of debate was over economics. Whether free markets or socialist systems worked better. After taking Econ 101, everyone realized Free Markets were the best system. The debate even took on a moral dimension, like how controlled economies empower dictatorships.The Libertarian movement was an early mover online. The online culture was decidedly anti-authoritarian. Everthing was posted for free, you could watch any hollywood movie you wanted from a single google search. You could say anything. The government couldn't track you. Needless to say, libertarian ideology proliferated in this wild west. It was guys like Walter Block, Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, the Mises Institute who seized the youth, especially after the 2008 crash. Everyone wanted Ron Paul to win, to defeat these weird boomer warmongers. Restore sound money, return to the founding. Ron Paul had his candidacy shut down in an extremely brutal and underhanded way. Being left out of polls, locked out of the convention...etc. This infuriated people who felt their vote was stolen. When he lost, the movement totally disintegrated. The constituent parts went their separate ways. Nobody knew what came next. Then the black riots happened, which galvanized people. Seeing private property going up in flames like that, was such a poignant sight. The arguments resonated. Race is real, race matters, civilization matters...etc. People stopped being libertarians and became fascists.
>>533942403The tea party brought out the libertarians and everyone confused them with liberals. South Park is libertarian. Family guy is liberal.
>>53395415821% of them apparently
i was a libertarian from age 18 - probably 25 then i realised that once the country is as far gone as it currently is in regards to demographics then the only real solution is some kind of ethnic fascism. maybe once the ethnic fascism solves the demographic issue you can convert to liberalism but that seems like a stretch
>>533954261Yooo I have the same pair of pants same model lol
>>533942403Libertarians were basically the "I want to be a Republican but I'm not religious and want to smoke weed" party. Every libertarian I knew came from right wing families and many of them had family in local politics or law enforcement.
>>533953761>States have welfare along with laws designed to protect low-information unintelligent citizens from ruthless exploitation by businesses.And look at how that's worked out in practice.>States aren't perfectStates are counterproductive.>far better than what a libertarian society would allow.Quite to the contrary, states engage in far deeper and more pervasive exploitation than a libertarian society would allow.>State courts can still tear up completely unbalanced contracts.Yet they don't do that 99% of the time, and when they do it they require you to spend years of your life and massive amounts of money fighting a legal battle to get that result.>This would be voluntarily 'opting in' which I thought was what Libertarianism is all about.Libertarianism is all about that, but unless you're suggesting a system where any person can simply opt out of taxation and regulation by the state (at which point it by definition ceases to be a state), then the state is an aggressive menace and its existence is a violation of that principle.>>533953852Really any arguments for the state are absurd. They invariably pose an ideal state which they admit doesn't actually exist against a hypothetical worst case scenario in a libertarian society. Usually that imagined worst case scenario is actually the status quo right now in state societies around the world. Like the Australian who is saying that in a Libertarian society stupid people might be tricked into unfair contracts, as if that isn't universal in state societies, and in fact even intelligent people are forced into unfair contracts in state societies.
libertarians are fake and gay, fake shit promoted by jewish commies that make money from government hand outs
>>533954313Good. If public schools are going to groom kids, they would be better off working on a farm or some shit, 100% unironically
>>533954317>But nobody really had strong opinions on those. Those were like fashion you changed to suit your mood.bullshit
>>533954353I knowI was always aware of this
>>533954317>People stopped being libertarians and became fascists.Rewriting history, the average paulbot either became a Berniebro or stopped voting/caring. The percentage doing the molyneux transformation was low.
>>533953490libertarianism really can only work in a homogeneous society of 110+ IQ White guys who take a personality test and shows they are individualized without a collective identity. Power is power. Someone will take it. Libertarianism for anyone but the above mentioned group is like leaving a nice steak on a floor and telling a bunch of dogs not to eat it.
>>533954427Libertarianism is a sentiment that embeds itself in a lot of american thinking.But I think the hyper individualistic, market-focuses libertarianism is something from Eastern Europe, which is definitely very jewish. The American version is more along the line of cattle ranchers, homesteaders, and free men of the land being skeptical of the Feds and seeking self-sustaining communities. That's an entirely different, and very American strain of thinking.
>>533954502I didn't even read that far into his post, it was such revisionist trash.
>>533954502>The percentage doing the molyneux transformation was low.No it wasn't lmaoIt was actually a fair split. The right-libertarians went further right. The left-libertarians who only cared about drugs and ending the wars, went back to the left. Honestly it was so jarring to see it happen. All of a sudden this huge swelling movement with so much popular support and energy, just totally disintigrated practically overnight. All of a sudden the libertarian chick I was chatting up started dying her hair blue and going far to the left. All of a sudden you had these weird people popping up in every single forum, talking about race and genetics. Something that was completely alien to me up until that point.
>>533954592You were likely misidentifying people's starting political opinions, combined with their normal change over time as they age and typical dissembling for social benefit.Learning this will help you judge things more accurately in the future:https://electowiki.org/wiki/Three_Telos_Model
>>533954502>the molyneux transformationMolyneux went from being critical of US backed color revolutions in Libya and Ukraine to support one in Hong Kong by 2019.
>>533954592>The right-libertarians went further right.To anarcho-capitalism or monarchism. Socialism is a left wing ideology, even the nationalist flavor.
>>533954408Yeah Libertarians still want to have the state as their god, even if it's absurd.Which is funny, since they're an ultra-niche party composed of non-Hispanic White men that pull 0.5% of the vote and they could easily just be anarchists and their popularity wouldn't change at all.
The internet goes through phases of retardation>atheism>lolbertarianism
>>533954781I'm relating to you my experience during this time, which I lived through and was intimately involved with. I campaigned for Ron Paul and participated in all the forums and everything. After he lost the second time, people genuinely didn't know what to do. They were totally lost. His movement was supposed to be carried on by successors, particularly Rand Paul and a few others. But Rand disappointed everyone by being a tepid conservative rather than a staunch and inflexible idealogue like his dad. Peter Schiff lost his senate race by calling for the bombing of Iran. What I witnessed was a total dissolution, people just kind of dissolving, like a pill dropped in water. There was a contingent of left-libertarians who mostly cared about drugs and the wars, that broke off and became SJW types. That did happen. But a huge contingent of people, and pretty much all that online energy, got redirected towards racial-oriented movements. Especially after the race riots with Trayvonn, Mike Brown, and the others everyone forgot about. Seeing those cities burn, and then seeing the funny memes like Mike Brown cupcakes, really did a number on bringing people over. But I don't know if that would have gone anywhere if it wasn't for Trump suddenly appearing in 2015.
>>533954847>they could easily just be anarchists and their popularity wouldn't change at all.The Mises Caucus is actually the dominant voice in the Libertarian Party right now. So they are sort of soft anarchists in that they don't really like the state existing but they don't think they can get rid of it, and their popularity has actually increased a bit over the last few years. That being said from what I understand the Libertarian Party as a whole is a complete mess right now and the Mises Caucus is also a bit of a drama filled shitshow.
>>533954826People create that political compass meme for a reason. You're describing a different dimension on the scale. If you want to define "less government" as right wing you can. But when I say it, I mean upholding of traditional society. That's "right wing". Typically the right wing faction will usually be on the side of the monarchy, or the religion, or the established customs. While the left wing will be trying to tear down and change all that stuff.
>>533955150This is what they're teaching people, by the way. This is what they actually believe.
>>533954037>You’re supposed to get over weird people existing in middle school,I don't care if they exist. Go ahead, run off somewhere and exist to your heart's content. When I have to start watching training videos about how I'm supposed to call the troons "she" just to keep my job, then it's no longer "existing". So, I've decided that the best solution to this problem is for such people (you included) to no longer exist. And the day will arrive when that becomes the prevalent dogma. You should have just sculked around and kept quiet, faggot. Maybe as the noose tightens, as you feel your legs kicked out from their precarious perch on the wobbly stool, that last thought will be "we went too far". But it'll be too late then. I'll clue you in: it's too late even now.
>>533942403>>533952876Corporations spent billions of the money you earned with your hard work on advertisement, lawyers, lobbying, green washing their products to make even more billions.Libertarianism ultimately fails unless property rights get abolished.And that wouldn't be called libertarianism but anarcho-syndicalism.
>>533942403It was the natural progression anon. 9/11, the war, Katrina and other black pilling events like 08 and Obama. Of course we'd look for an alternative before losing all hope when the GOP sidelined him for 2012, and then the nsdap pipeline nail was the events of 2019-2020
>>5339424032008 financial crisisFucked.Shit.Up.I didn’t fell a sense of “normalcy” from that until 2018ish
>>533955040I'm just explaining that the behaviors you were seeing are in line with the actual inner motivations of these people, while you seem to have wrongly judged them along the lines of how fate had grouped them via externalities. What they may have labeled themselves and what detailed opinions they may have expressed were illusory. What seemed to have been a monolith was actually composed of multitudes.
>>533954317>>533955040Yeah, Paul had everything he won in the 2012 primary stolen from him and he never even spoke up about it, to my knowledge. Those counties in Maine never reported results and he just ignored it and went off to do his own thing talking to his audience of supporterss. Then Rand ran in the next primary as one of the like 20 Republican fags and Trump blew them all out of the water by flipping the script on the "fuck you retarded white chuds, here's what I'm going to do for the hispanics" campaign the think tanks told them to run.
>>533942403they where libertarian, then they realized the world is fake and gay
>>533942403Ron Paul actually was about No War, No Fed, No Tax. He was simply too based to win.
>>533955391Or maybe they are more like herd animals that go with the tides. They had certain proclivites that set them apart. There was certainly a distinct personality-difference between left-libertarians and right-libertarians, it was easy to feel out who was which.
>>533942403>'08 Subprime>Boomer's Second Gulf War on the basis of WMD defrauding the public and UN>Eurotrash setting the welfare queen conditions for 2014 Russian moves on Eastern Ukraine, NATO a fuckWe have perfectly good laws that ought to be followed, and would induce radical air clearing change for the better if only there were the political will (viz. Boomer Senescence). Direct election of Senators only made them more susceptible to bribery and coercion, 1860s and the 19th expanded franchise to illbred and half-educated retards to agitate. Something had to give, but RINOs are suicidal and stole the primaries for Kenyan & Big Mike.
Ron Paul wanted to audit the Fed and the ZOG. Of course he was frozen out by Neocons (Karl Rove and such) due to his raging case of antisemitism.
>>533955491>left-libertarians and right-libertariansYeah, please consider learning about the three telos>>533955272picrelAnyway, it's 1am, tìme for bed. Take care of yourselves, please, everyone.
>>533955460Rand Paul entered 2016 as the literal frontrunner. Despite being disappointing, he did inherit the momentum of his father's movement, did a big filibuster in Congress that made him a star. He was polling at the top of the charts. But his campaign went extremely badly. He had a short temper. Was testy with investors and didn't get any money. He started touring the black inner-cities and spent the debates lecturing everyone about black issues and sounded like an SJW. It was so bizarre to hear a libetarian talking about how blacks in the inner city are so oppressed and need so much help. Why is that his issue in the Republican primary with 3% black voters? Kind of insane. I was a huge supporter but after seeing what he became, I was very satisfied when Trump dumpstered him.
>>533955185>You're describing a different dimension on the scale.the conservative/progressive axis is the one I'm describing. You seem to think I'm talking about the authoritarian/libertarian axis, but I'm not.>But when I say it, I mean upholding of traditional society.So anarcho capitalism or monarchy. Socialism is the opposite of traditional society and destroys the family and traditional values, even when it claims to be trying to protect them. >While the left wing will be trying to tear down and change all that stuff.Which is fundamentally what all forms of socialism do. They may try to ape the aesthetics of traditional society, but they do not match their structure and in fact degrade it.>>533955272And they are correct. You should actually read the book instead of a couple highlighted sentences of it out of context.
>>533954317>Let me dredge up my memory.Back in those times, you had a set of cultural issues which you were expected to have an opinion on. Death Penalty, abortion, torture, legalization of drugs....etc. But nobody really had strong opinions on those. Those were like fashion you changed to suit your mood.You also had wars going on, and while it was a matter of debate, pretty much everyone agreed Bush was a retard. The war supporters, when I was in school, were old boomers who nobody really identified with.So really, the key battleground of debate was over economics. Whether free markets or socialist systems worked better. After taking Econ 101, everyone realized Free Markets were the best system. The debate even took on a moral dimension, like how controlled economies empower dictatorships.The Libertarian movement was an early mover online. The online culture was decidedly anti-authoritarian. Everthing was posted for free, you could watch any hollywood movie you wanted from a single google search. You could say anything. The government couldn't track you. Needless to say, libertarian ideology proliferated in this wild west.It was guys like Walter Block, Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, the Mises Institute who seized the youth, especially after the 2008 crash. Everyone wanted Ron Paul to win, to defeat these weird boomer warmongers. Restore sound money, return to the founding.Ron Paul had his candidacy shut down in an extremely brutal and underhanded way. Being left out of polls, locked out of the convention...etc. This infuriated people who felt their vote was stolen. When he lost, the movement totally disintegrated. The constituent parts went their separate ways. Nobody knew what came next. Then the black riots happened, which galvanized people. Seeing private property going up in flames like that, was such a poignant sight. The arguments resonated. Race is real, race matters, civilization matters...etc. People stopped being libertarians and became fascists.
Ron Paul accurately predicted the future of the Afghan war in 2011.
>>533955747Not a big deal. They literally all get the script and play their roles. Think tanks sort this all out years before it goes down. COVID, 9/11, Biden, etc. It's all theater to push and pull to a further extreme
>>533955669>You should actually read the book instead of a couple highlighted sentences of it out of context.I can't claim I read the full book, but I did read the chapter before.I forget who authored it. But they gave a story about Chicago in the 1900's, and how numerous companies were trying to lay their own electircal wires. With so much hustle and bustle, there were surely lines overlapping and going every which way. This was portrayed as a moment of "pure free market" and look, there was no monopoly in the electrical grid.Therefore, natural monopolies aren't real.Therefore, monopolies are good. That was the chain of logic. It was a glib little anecdote about early 1900's Chicago, which they rested their entire "proof" upon. I mean first of all, Chicago was an area of super high demand, so there's less tendency to monopoly there. But second of all, the monopolistic tendency in the electrical grid is very well known. As with the sewer system, and the water-pipe network, these are all natural monopolies. None of that was addressed. They shuffle you off stage if you talk about that and insist repeatedly "we PROVED natural monopolies aren't real. And even if they are real, monopoly prices are GOOD!" None of that was proven at all.
>>533942403because people still thought we lived in a constitutional republic with reasonable, moral people, where voting mattered and we could 'discuss issues'.everyone knows its all bullshit now and that there's only power. everyone knows deep down we're never gonna vote or reason our way out of this mess, but everyone is scared to actually do whats required and be the first one to kill the leftists living next door.
>>533955979Idiot your t xtbooks are not reason they are all Lea ad juden shit
>>533955665I held out hope for Rand even after 2016 but he is interested in meme issues like Fauci and why socialism doesn't work. It's sad to say but Thomas Massie is basically Ron's real son out there. He carries his legacy. You know, you could make the case that guys like Gary Johnson and Justin Amash were more significant to the Libertarian movement than Rand Paul. Which is insane.
>>533942403ron paul wanted to fight jewish power, but chantards were too busy being atheist simps
>>533956038wat?
>>533942403Ron Paul is my Hero. He was the real deal and much of that energy that was in his campaign went into electing Trump. What a shame. Rand Paul seems like a shadow of his father, he seems to avoid talking about the Federal Reserve. He changed my life. I'd probably be a retarded neocon if it wasn't for this man.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
>>533944573yeah the american empire is pointless because theres plenty of resources for autarky. we need to get rid of imported labor and impose huge tariffs on imported manufactured goods, then abolish womens rights and return to being a nation of producers
I remember being pissed in early 2020 when Ron Paul wasn't taking Covid seriously. He compared it to the swine flu panic that had a vaccine that killed a bunch of people. He is steady in his beliefs.
>>533942403>was Ron Paul a serious candidateHe was; but he never had a chance because the corporate media on both sides dictated that he would be ignored. He won some of the early primary states; but the press always treated him like he was a loon who never had a chance and told everyone not to take him seriously.I feel like if circa 2004 Ron Paul ran today he could have made a really good run because the corporate media doesn't control everything the way they did back then.
>>533942403>anti-libertarian kvetchingDaily reminder it is LITERALLY a mental illness to not want to reduce the power of the government in 20-fucking-26.Your brain is fucking fried. Get a hold of yourself.
>>533942403>>533943706>>5339474032008 Tampa Republican Convention was like an Aaron Swartz Waco against a legit grassroots Ron Paul delegate populist takeover that happened. Glowies locked down the city for a hurricane that never arrived and bussed dangerous delegates around the city instead of to the convention to miss key votes. The party just ignored the RP crowd for the verbal votes.
>>533955874>I can't claim I read the full book, but I did read the chapter before.Read the rest of the chapter it's in (and maybe the one after it, I can't remember where the chapter break is). To oversimplify it, it explains that in practical terms monopolies are effectively impossible to accomplish in a free market without a state enforcing them, and the only way to do it is to provide such amazing service at such a low price that nobody else can make a move on you, and to do it indefinitely since otherwise new entrants would enter the market.>I forget who authored it.Rothbard. You might prefer Hans-Hermann Hoppe though, he's got some extremely interesting writing about the economic factors in a non-state society which would enforce discrimination and opposition to immigration.>It was a glib little anecdote about early 1900's Chicago, which they rested their entire "proof" upon.Mises, Rothbard, and Hoppe are all non-positivists and don't base their theories on data but on philosophical praxeology. They use historical examples to illustrate their points, not as a basis for their ideas. I'm not a non-positivist myself, but their ideas are sound.>we PROVED natural monopolies aren't real. And even if they are real, monopoly prices are GOOD!Rothbard provides a logical proof for that and then proceeds to cite an example that demonstrates that the proof conforms to reality.>None of that was proven at all.You seem to not understand what a proof is. Here, read this:https://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/math-proof/rules-of-inference/rules-of-inference.html
>>533956354> He compared it to the swine flu panicYou could literally not tell the difference between the two by looking at the television. The only difference is no one cared when the media said swine flu was dangerous.
>>533956406
Back in 2010 we thought that fiscal conservatism could actually be employed and the U.S. economy could be fixed. In reality Congress is just pedophiles giving themselves bailouts. A Taft es que libertarian economy can only exist under a Taft.
Libertarianism is a retarded utopian ideology like communism. This site used to have a younger user base. Most people grew out of it.
>>533956270That second video got me. I can't say anything positive really on modern day libertarians, but the Ron Paul crowd were just good kids man. It's going to really hurt when Ron dies a day after his 109th birthday.
>>533956498If Ron Paul wasn't too much for the boomers at the time then many of his followers were.
>>533942504and cut all aid (esp to israel lolz)THAT GOT REAL FASTeveryone voted for him he won presidentcy easilyelections have been faked long b4 2020
>>533942403Libertarians don’t vote anymore. After covid we have totally disengaged from the system. There is no political solution to what we are facing. I have spoiled every ballot since 2020 lockdown
>>533956536>it explains that in practical terms monopolies are effectively impossible to accomplish in a free market without a state enforcing themBut that isn't true. There's plenty of situations where a monopoly is actually more efficient. Like in the case of a water pipe network. It's a waste of scarce resources to dig up the ground and lay a duplicate set of pipes, just to provide the fantasy of "competition". By the same token, a competitor to Amazon is not efficient. We don't NEED a duplicate network of delivery trucks, warehouses, and shipping lanes. In fact to build such a thing would be a waste of scarce resources.Like we don't need 2 bridges over a ravine to provide "competition", we just need 1 bridge. It's more efficient. >Rothbard provides a logical proof for thatNone of the stuff coming out of these eastern european schools of thought are rooted in science. They are rooted in mumbo jumbo philosophy. That includes the Mises school. They pronounce a set of first principles, and then stick by those principles to the grave. Which is sort of like, the opposite of the scientific method. That's why it doesn't work.
>>533956669Libertarianism is the opposite of utopian, it’s the idea that many sacrifices are necessary and prudent to preserve liberty.You have been brainwashed into supporting a government that HATES you, and you deride the only people on the planet saying>hey, maybe the government shouldn’t have this much power
>>533942504this. all the cats got out of the bag at the same time and where running around. the finn even knows but here in the US it was a big deal. we Americans are very propagandized and when we all realized it was a con we got very concerned about our money. at least all the smart ones did. back then we still felt the need to frame our malkontent and Murray rothbard was just sitting there.
>>533956560Yeah, I remember that one. It really pissed me off.
>>533942403Libertarians is a white people negotiation as our societies convert to browns requiring more state intervention. Basically it's a cope as white social structures deteriorate.
>>533956868>t. Undeveloped frontal lobe
>>533956977a government that hates us would be nice for a change. These niggas just wont fuck off.
>>533944096It was this. Ron Paul was a genuine outsider not in bed with the elites so the elites made sure to kill his chances before he could get dangerous.Unlike trump who is in the club with the elites, even if they hate him he's still one of them so they had to let him pass
>>533956868maybe the government shouldn't have this much power. but it does, and there is no benefit for a government to give up power in favor of some abstract principle, and it won't do it anyway. Like, the government still has the power to throw you in jail for smoking weed, but decided its more beneficial to try to convince you to smoke lots of weed, to work with weed growers to make their shit more potent/addictive, and to tax the hell out of it. Also, the power to throw you in jail or not throw you in jail for smoking weed will always exist, and will be held by someone.
50% of Paul posting was 15 year olds who wanted legal weed
>>533944096how do people in Canada even know about Ron Paul? but you are correct. they sent Sacha to basically try and rape him dressed as a German. he must've really ruffled some feathers
>>533956270>hey /pol/, remember when you had enough optimism the future didn’t look like endless death and suffering for everyone except the people causing it?Yeah… th-thanks…
>>533942504I voted for you Ron! I still see the REVOLUTION sign on I-15. I believed.
>>533957139mission accomplished lol. like the only thing out of that list of demands we got.
>>533957139>actually, the libertarians were just accidentally correct
>>533942403Nobody pretended to be libertarian, all these guys really were libertarians.The libertarian party got psyopped with crash dummies who interrupted real party meetings to scream about dumb shit like>SEAT BELTS!? WHO THE FUCK NEEDS 'EM, AM I RIGHT!?and made the whole party look retarded.Then a bunch of people who were pedophiles got shoved in there that really should've just been anarchists, but they were all plants made to make us look bad and turn the whole thing into an unserious meme ideology.Most Alt-Right guys I know still who were there in the early days have all either defaulted back to some kind of Libertarianism, Classical Liberal but Racist or taken some ideas out of the Alt-Right with them back to Libertarianism. What that means is they understand the kind of society Libertarians want is only possible in a homogenous, moral collective of people who are genetically capable of and predisposed to the same ideas about how society should be.You don't have to tell actual Americans to follow the law or be civil, they do that on their own. It's only when you twist their arms they feel insulted and chimp out.If you just took a bunch of morally upright Old Stock Americans and told them to run a city together they'd build a fucking paradise every single time just like our ancestors did.Anyway, I am firmly convinced now that only only is Libertarianism and Classical Liberalism fucking kryptonite to jews. The societies they intend to build give jews no inroad to dominate. No central banks, no MIC, totally different moral compass. Throw in some Classical Virtus in there and you've basically got Early America.
>>533957517But what about dropping commies from helicopters?
>>533943918There actually is a solution totally congruent with Libertarianism.
>>533953328this was not part of it before we got gary johnson pseudo liblibertarian were supposed to be everything is privatly owned so border crossers can be shotstrongest border everjews somehow got johnson on tv and he was liek chiding a guy for calling them illegals lolzI am not sure even now ron paul was for open bordersallowing offshort workers and importing them for low rent country is chating of capitalism and jewing bs as is artificial low amount of rooms and cheap teen pussy so both prices are 100,000 what they should bealso jews print money without producing anything so capitalism is just jew aristocracy
>>533957517> You don't have to tell actual Americans to follow the law or be civil, they do that on their own. It's only when you twist their arms they feel insulted and chimp out.If you just took a bunch of morally upright Old Stock Americans and told them to run a city together they'd build a fucking paradise every single time just like our ancestors did.You get a bunch of European people to write a constitution and it’s gonna work for those people because it will reflect their norms and values and they will follow it without thinking. In a multicultural shithole you start thinking about ideology but thr only thing that works to govern a multicultural shithole is tyranny. And that is what Jews are building with themselves at the center.
Yes the libertarian to pissed off white guy voting for right wing ziosloppa to jaded as fuck no longer care pipeline is real
>>533942403Because back then republicans and democrats were boring and very very similar in policies. It was only after 2008 and king nigger that the dems started going far left so if you wanted an actual second option you picked libertarian, for all the good it did.
>>533956835>Like in the case of a water pipe network. It's a waste of scarce resources to dig up the ground and lay a duplicate set of pipesYou seem to be envisioning it working like it does with state backed monopolies handling huge regions, instead of larger numbers of smaller local providers who would not find it all that hard to lay an extra pipe onto their network to extend it into an area that is being overcharged by a competitor, and then just connect up the buildings that sign contracts with them.>By the same token, a competitor to Amazon is not efficient. We don't NEED a duplicate network of delivery trucks, warehouses, and shipping lanes.You're imagining monopolies which aren't just horizontal, but vertical as well? No subcontractors who could be bid away? No competition for scarce factors of production? You don't seem to be living in the real world. If Amazon really were perfectly efficient, then sure, nobody would bother competing with them. But then what is the problem? You're getting the best service at the lowest possible price.>eastern european schools of thoughtCentral European actually, the schools of thought originate from Germany and Austria.>They are rooted in mumbo jumbo philosophy.The philosophy of science is important. Consider picrel. It is a problem in both directions. Data without theory is as fraught as theory without data.>the Mises schoolIt's called the Austrian school actually.>They pronounce a set of first principles, and then stick by those principles to the grave.They establish axioms and derive from them. I'm not actually defending this approach, but their reasoning does match reality if you bother to study in detail. It's useful to understand what they are saying since like with the water drop example from picrel, it's easy to take the data and draw wildly incorrect theory from it.
>>533942403I didn't know about jews.
