Why don't we just build more nuke plants? Designs are incredibly safe and it is like cheap, unlimited power?
oy vey someone throw op out a window
>>534174253Because the builds are absurdly expensive. And fear mongering.
>>5341742531) NIMBYs 2) Employee qualification requirements 3) Build speed Each power plant is essentially more cathedral than industrial building and require a surprisingly high amount of PhD level staff on site.You need to either have it as part of a state run company or using blackboxed modular Designs that are fully self contained.Nuclear is safe. But making it safe is expensive and very time intensive.
>>534174253it costs like $40 billion to build a US nuclear plant (vogtle) because we have a fake and gay economy that can't actually do anything, it just gets outsourced to contractors and subcontractors which makes the project management overweight and administrative inefficiency go up exponentially. and sometimes it gets so bad the project completely fails (virgil c. summer reactor) and local citizens (customers of the utility) are on the hook for the failure.nuclear is a good idea but our faggynigger society makes it almost impractical. as a gaynigger country of mentally retarded kike slaves, we also REFUSE to invest in breeder reactors, so we're forced to reconcile nuclear adoption with the availability and lifetime supply of uranium.
Spill any nuclear material, that land becomes uninhabitable for the next 700,000 years. It seeps into the groundwater, contaminates everything. Essentially that's a piece of the earth we can never use again.Now do you really think war isn't coming to Germany or the US in the next 10,000 years? Because I can assure you it is. And when it happens, what are the chances the nuclear power plants become a target? Or some nuclear material gets spilled?Even a 1% chance is too much
>>534174469yepthere is some thought out there that the nuclear power plants were/are shut down because you cannot find qualified operators anymoreand of course the jooos not being able to play the jooo casino aka stock- and futures marketscui bono?
>>534174253There isn't enough fissile material to rely on nuclear.
>>534174253The nuclear waste is the problem. You can't get rid of it.
>>534174469>2) Employee qualification requirementsThis right here, our time to build was 20 years ago. It's guaranteed something bad will happen thanks to the competency crisis, and we'll be back to our retarded coal/LNG/renewable combo in no time.
>>534174630is this b8 or is this anon retarded?
>>534174827>700GAZILLION YEARS!!!!
>>534174253We should have gone the way off Fallout, use nuclear power for everything. Nuclear powered cars, nuclear powered plances, nuclear powered refrigirators, nuclear powered vibrators.
>>534174253They're not actually cheap to build, the initial investment is enormous. They need competent staff, I wouldn't trust niggers to operate a nuclear power station.Women fear nuclear power, and society pays too much attention to the opinions of women.
>>534174931This amused me thanks.
>>534174253AI companies building datacenters should be required to provide their own infrastructure separate from the existing grid
>>534174982>They're not actually cheap to build, the initial investment is enormous.You can make the money back by selling the power
>>534174253Big oil. /thread
>>534175183I should have clarified, they still make economic sense because they last a very long time, but the initial investment requires a functioning government that can make long-term commitments.
>>534174703>>534174758Both incorrect. There is more than enough uranium to go around for the next century, though a lot of mining is currently done in countries that the West is not friends with. The waste generated by a single plant over the course of its operating lifespan can fit inside a single storage site located at the power plant. Not necessarily the optimal storage solution, but it keeps the waste in one location until it's safe to move to somewhere else.Not to mention, reprocessing simultaneously solves both of these problems. It's just not done on a commercial scale because it's far cheaper to just dig fresh uranium ore out of the ground.
>>534174253>cheaplmao
>>534175279>There is more than enough uranium to go around for the next centuryFor about 140 years to be exact, but only as long as nuclear covers ~3% of the world's energy needs. If nuclear power were to be increased by an order of magnitude, it would only last a measly 14 years.
>>534175585The french are already having to finance terrorists in mali to get their hands on uranium. Nuclear shills are on the same level as wind and solar shillls.
Just use less electricity.
Government licensing makes it expensive. It's all arbitrary.
>>534174253Time. In the US the build process is so fucking slow that nobody wants to commit. You could start building it when you are 25 and you might be 45 when it is done. Even the Ching Chongs take a few years to finish one.
>>534174253Because it works. Seriously, environmental groups like the Sierra club were worried that cheap energy and the resultant economics growth would encourage population growth and humans are le bad so you must be kept too miserable to procreate.
>>534174827Could be a bot or AI. Nobody is that dumb.
>>534175751>let's privatize itOh yes, infrastructure privatization has always worked well. There are thousands of successful privatizations in history books.
>>534174253Regulation. At this point, it should just be a SOE like Rosatom
>>534175849>Because it worksThen france's energy problems must be due to something else.
>>534175556First of all, France's retarded pension system is not the fault of nuclear power.Second, the spike in electricity costs are due to France getting BTFO their former colonies in the Sahel by Wagner and now having to pay market rates for uranium.While the mark-to-market has pushed French nuclear power to be a bit more expensive than say US or Nordic hydrocarbon power generation, it's still massively cheaper than the Youkay and Goymoney's renewable bullshit.
>>534175183The last at least 50 years producing power almost 100% of the time. The most based power source on the planet.
>>534174469>1) NIMBYs>austria flaghow ironic
>>534175279>>534174758Also worth noting that nuclear fuel is already naturally radioactive and simply returning the waste to the same or a similar environment poses a risk commensurate to it just being there in the first place. The idea that we need to guard it for all time as though we're responsible for the existence of radioactivity is ridiculous.Actually, the total danger of radiation is reduced since much of that energy is released in use and not available for radioactive decay. So were really can't afford not to use fission power. Think of all that dangerous uranium out there that needs to be cleaned up.
>>534174703look up the molten salt reactor experiment at oak ridge
>>534174982death by doro snu snu
>>534174465>Because the builds are absurdly expensive.only in the west, china makes them for 1/4-1/5 of the money.
>>534176121France's energy situation perfectly illustrates why nuclear power generation is a bad idea. First, there are the high construction costs; than initial production is quite cheap and, above all, consistent, what is good, but as soon as the power plants age, exorbitant renovation costs will be incurred. And, of course, there are hidden subsidies, with the state covering accident insurance and final storage costs.The switch from heating and mobility to electricity also exposes the grid to extreme peaks at certain times, which, for example, leads to france exporting electricity in the summer and always being on the verge of a blackout in the winter.
>>534175726you already use less brain electricity lmao
>>534174253Emotional idiots who fall for the dumbest propaganda ruin everything
>>534176003Yeah, dumbass. There are two wars involving major energy exporters. Have you been living under a rock? Everyone has energy problems. France less than their neighbors.
>>534176591AWALT
>>534176525The share of nuclear power generation isn't growing in China either.
>>534176649>France less than their neighborsYour feelings don't matter here. If you want to have a say, first find out about france's energy situation.
>>534175585Lucky for us, we can't magically pull a complete reactor out of our asses yet, so the current global reserves should be more than enough to see us to 2100, even with the most optimistic estimates for new construction.Just over the past decade or two, we've discovered huge new reserves of uranium. If the price of uranium keeps going up, companies will naturally spend more on mineral exploration to find more sources. I'm not saying that we're always going to find more uranium in the ground, but we're more likely to sooner run out of certain rare earth minerals needed for renewables than to run out of extractable uranium.
>>534176746And above all, their power plants are only 10 years old on average. France is a much better example for assessing the long-term situation.
>>534174253The only way nuclear is safe is heavy government regulations. Capitalism will cut corners for share holders and derstroy the world.
>>534176555>The switch from heating and mobility to electricity also exposes the grid to extreme peaks at certain times, which, for example, leads to france exporting electricity in the summer and always being on the verge of a blackout in the winter.kek you are describing germany right there.NPPs are NOT to cover peak demand, but base load and france does this perfectly. Also NPPs are grind froming.there are no PEAKS in NPP generations, those peaks only steam from all the retarded wind and PV power they press into the system.Pic related france in the middle of winter, they always can fully satisfy there own demand, in fact they have to much.
>>534176940>same week in germanyfor half the week they need to import power or are fucked.
>>534176555>lowest electricity prices in europe>bad idea
>>534176746because they're building every kind of power plant, retarded kraut
>>534176821Yeah, I'm just saying that the fantasy of unlimited cheap energy is just that, a fantasy. Nuclear powers utilizing nuclear a bit more is definitely doable, but it's not something the entire world can depend on, even with SMRs, molten salt reactors, and what not.
>>534176928Were you hooked up to the clockwork orange propaganda machine your whole life? Government is the most destructive and controlling force in history
>>534177081The Chinese are coalburners.
>>534174253Not 'unlimited'.But yes, it is very, very efficient.The only power source that is better is - theoretically - fusion.But nobody has managed to get a useful, stable version working yet, so moot point.>Why don't we build more fissionPetroleum companies lobbied against it.Intensely demonized it.Cleverly, they disguised their campaigning as eco-conscientious rhetoric.Predictably, useful idiots ate it up.
>>534176746>The share of nuclear power generation isn't growing in China either.because their demand for electricity increases 5-6% per year, linearily for the last 26 years, and western demand basically has stagnated.Chinks are not to retarded to put everything into one basket and build what gives them the best/fastest/cheapest way to satisfy this demand, thats also why they are still building coal.
>>534177296coal isn't just used for electricity generation
>>534176555And renewables aren't subsidized to hell and back? You can make the same argument for hydrocarbons if you incorporate all the wars in the Middle East as a hydrocarbon subsidy.And the only thing better than nuclear for dealing with grid instability is natural gas, but it's not like nuclear sucks for this. You just make sure your baseload exceeds peak demand and then dump the surplus into sinks like Britain.Listen, I'm not arguing that natural gas isn't the superior form of energy generation but that shit is on a timer. At current consuption rates, proven reserves will run dry well before the end of the century.Even if abiogenesis is real, it's not productive enough to keep up with demand.My challenge to you is then what form of energy production *that will still be available in a century* is better than nuclear? Because it sure as shit isn't solar panels.
>>534177378>Intensely demonized it.>Cleverly, they disguised their campaigning as eco-conscientious rhetoric.funny thing, this campaigns now have turned against them.
>>534176940You need to read what I wrote. The second part of my post wasn't a rejection of nuclear power, but a general rejection of switching all energy consumption to electricity. You can look up the reports about France's energy situation in winter from recent years. It's no secret.>>534177060Yes, and you have cheap eggs because trump's first official act was to subsidize egg production. France has the highest government spending as a percentage of GDP in europe. No country with truly cheap energy collapses like france does.
>>534174630>It seeps into the groundwater, contaminates everythingWater is famously one of the hardest things to contaminate with radiation because the water itself doesn't become irradiated, it's sediments in the water.Guess what sediments do in rivers? They flow downstream and out into the ocean where the radioactive particles basically dissipate into nothing.And for groundwater, how do you propose radioactive particles making it through tens, hundreds or even kilometers of rock, sediment and soil? Lmao. Groundwater is naturally self-filtering.
>>534174253>Designs are incredibly safe and it is like cheap, unlimited power?Clearly, they are not real. A nuclear plant requires effort on the part of the Jew to maintain the illusion of progress. Being far to lazy for such work nowadays, they would prefer us all to just quietly forget that "nuclear power" was ever a thing.
>>534177296That is fucking bonkers.
>>534176756https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/11/germany-pay-reliance-russian-gas-power-chief-significant-structural-demand-destruction-energy-crisis/They're clearly doing better than Germany.
>>534174982>Atomic (Adam Ick) powerYes, yes.Nuclear technology is very sexist.Every second one is operated is equivalent to 10,000 gigarapes doncha know.
>>534174253The construction takes a lot of time and is extremely expensive, which takes a lot of time to pay off.Most developed economies have no domestic uranium supply chain and have to import it from Russia or Africa, which makes it an inherently riskier and less stable option than coal
>>534177434The coal reserves under europe are sufficient for at least 500 years of full energy supply. I would resume coal mining and switch mobility and heating to diesel/heating oil/biofuel. That would buy enough time to reassess the situation. And also free up enough resources for more research and development.
>>534177536The germans should have kicked you out of the country immediately after you blew up NS2 and then rebuilt it. Serves them right.
>>534174253>cheap, unlimited power>too cheap to meter
>>534178005After a few decades, you'll have to invest the same amount again in renovations.
>>534177641>The construction takes a lot of time and is extremely expensive, which takes a lot of time to pay off.This is only because of red tape in western nations, not only do they cost 4-5 times more, they also take way longer to build and get delayed by the every changing regulations.Its quite funny how a worst koran 1GW NPP is 2-3 Billion and taking ~7 years. While a burger plant of the same size is 10-15 billion and takes 10 years to build.Russians and Chinese are even faster at the same pricepoint as worst korea, with russiand bulding them in roughly 6,5 years and chinks in 5.And europoors are the worst with plants taking 10+ years to build at retarded pricepoints of 12 billions+
>>534177475>France has the highest government spending as a percentage of GDP in europe.On electricity?>No country with truly cheap energy collapses like france does.Why the fuck not?
>>534174253>Why don't we just build more nuke plants?we are, what are you talking about?
>>534177903They were already getting squeezed before that. They were warned Putin would use it as leverage and that's exactly what he did.
>>534178265>They were already getting squeezed before that. They were warned Putin would use it as leverage and that's exactly what he did.Lmao. Is government propaganda your only source of information in life?
>>534178160So, are we supposed to abolish all safety precautions and pay workers slave wages so that we can build cheaply and quickly like china and russia?
>>534178498>So, are we supposed to abolish all safety precautionsyes.. because south korean reactors are a walking seafty hazzard.. same for russian ones...
>>534178553Yes because WHAT??
>>534178354https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-scraps-gas-pipeline-reopening-stoking-european-fears-2022-09-02/
>>534178553Shin Hanul also took over ten years. And Hinkley Point isn't a fair comparison. The bongs pretty much fucked up everything about the project.
>>534178770It is a fact that germany, under the green party's economics minister habeck, unilaterally terminated its agreement to purchase russian gas. Everything else is just speculation. Furthermore, it is a fact that the german government has actively blocked the investigation into who blew up NS2 to this day.
>>534177810I mean it's an option but we ditched coal for a reason. Picrel.I would argue a better way to free up resources for R&D would be to stop smelting aluminum for wind turbine blades that get buried in the desert 20 years after construction but I guess I'm just a silly billy.
>>534179117>Everything else is just speculation.It's not speculation that the USA and the west bent over backwards repairing the turbines (relieving sanctions to do so) only for Russia to take the repaired turbines and leave NS1 offline.> it is a fact that the german government has actively blocked the investigation into who blew up NS2 to this day.They have the slavs who did it on cameras. They've issued arrest warrants for them. You are a retard.
>>534179238China only started installing the latest filter technologies in the last ten years, also the difference to japan in your picture isn't that huge anymore. Furthermore, I think that focusing on coal-fired power generation will certainly lead to more research and development into even better filter technologies. We also don't need as much energy as china.
>>534179460I knew I'd attract one of you with this post. Do you filter specifically for that?
>>534174758Nah, you can definitely get rid of it.
>>534179117>It is a fact that germany, under the green party's economics minister habeck, unilaterally terminated its agreement to purchase russian gas.>Furthermore, it is a fact that the german government has actively blocked the investigation into who blew up NS2 to this day.Sounds like that's because they were involved. Gnawing off their leg to escape a trap. They should have recognized the con as soon as Schroeder ran off to Gazprom.Regardless, we were talking about nuclear reactors, and if Germany had kept theirs they might still have their industry.
>>534174253Fossil fuel industry
>>534179660No I've been lurking the thread for 30 minutes because nuclear is the only baseload option.You do not have a rebuttal to my post and are subhuman. The only question is if you're albanian or a pajeet.
>>534174253Nuclear isn't safe you are to retarded to understand that
>>534174630>that land becomes uninhabitable for the next 700,000 yearsDoes your understanding of nuclear fallout come from Dr. Strangelove or something lol?>Why didnt you tell the world?!? What good is a deterrent if no one knows about it?!?
>>534179752Nuclear is literally the safest.
>>534179752>t. Subhuman>a powerplant?!?! What if we burn down the cornfield pa!
>>534174253not my problem
Nuclear reactors are big, long term, high skill endeavors. They work when you keep a healthy, specialized workforce. In the current scamconomy where everyone at the top is all about:>bribing politicians>running shill campaigns>cutting all the corners, outsourcing and enshittifying everything>pocket the savings>delay it to milk government and baggies>cancel it to rinse and repeatIt doesn't work of course. That's why some are trying to come up with modular reactors so the bulk of the production is done in a competent center to avoid as much of this scamming as possible. Except even then, some of the startups that shill modular reactors themselves are scams.
>>534180012>>534179999You are both Niggers
You need a shitload of skilled workers. For example we had to bring american welders to build our nuclear power plants
>>534179744The turbine is still located in germany. Only germany claims that they would have been willing to deliver it. And the evidence regarding the explosion points so extremely to you that they don't even dare to lie like the dutch did about the downing of the civilian aircraft.And it's a crazy coincidence how one of you always turns up when someone is writing about the history regarding ukraine.
>>534180207Yes. The people of the oooga booga tribe are all about splitting atoms. Being afraid of technology is so unbelievably brown coded its hard to explain
>>534179703>Germany had kept theirs they might still have their industry.They only accounted for 20% of their electricity generation and were a small part of their total energy consumption. But yes, in the current situation, it certainly wouldn't have been harmful if they had kept the old reactors for some more time.
>>534180207More people die from radioactive fly ash and slurry ponds in the USA every year than have ever gotten cancer from nuclear power.More people die from solar in the USA (installation failures, falling off roofs) than die from nuclear per twh generated per year.It's tied with wind as safe.>>534180449>Only germany claims that they would have been willing to deliver it. Again, that's wrong. Russia didnt provide transportation documentation and let it sit there. You do not have a rebuttal to my post because you are shitskinned in a country you do not belong in.>And the evidence regarding the explosion points so extremely to youAgain, wrong. The only evidence you will be able to point to is the ramblings of some retard who has been proven wrong again and again, with open source data proving that whatever NATO vessel he was rambling about wasn't even anywhere close to the site.All of this is irrelevant to the fact that the Germans have the Ukrainians and Poles on camera who rented the sailboat and blew the shit up. And rightfully so, because Russians, like you, are asiatic, subhuman, and were attempting to use the energy as a lever in their invasion of Ukraine.
Do modern power plants have complete protection against malicious employees?For example, a plane can be brought down if the pilot wants to... Can a nuclear power plant reach that critical point of no return if an employee wants to?
>>534179586>also the difference to japan in your picture isn't that huge anymoreWhat do you suppose "real-time" means in the context of that screenshot?
>>534180497Not understanding long term effects is nigger shit yes
>>534180796>Again, that's wrong>>534179460>only for Russia to take the repaired turbines and leave NS1 offline?You pentagon nafo sisters are really not good at coordinating your lies.
>>534175170Underrated post.
>>534180823the reactor protection system will automatically trip the reactor. there are also probably security guards and other operators will stop you.
>>534180933They have an immense energy consumption and have only been installing modern filter technology for ten years. I thought I had already mentioned that in my last post.
>>534180985Russia had to ship the turbines to Siemens in the first place in Canada, you fucking retarded asiatic shitskinned niggermut.They accepted, took, the prospect of repaired turbines and then refused delivery.You are brown and subhuman.
>>534174253The government wants to be super involved, and the government cant do anything efficiently or cheaply. Regulations account for like 90% of the time and expense of building a nuclear plant.
>>534174630How low functioning are you? You rarely read such a fucked up post here, and that's saying something.
because the global economy is all about keeping a controlled scarcity rather thinking the benefit of masses.Stop questioning goyim
>>534181074>Russia had to ship the turbines to Siemens in the first place in CanadaThey did, and canada wasn't allowed to return them because of your sanctions. Then an allegedly exception was made to send them to germany, supposedly to then pass them on to russia. But why isn't germany subject to the same sanctions as canada? Your propaganda makes no sense, sister.
>>534180963... weve had nuclear plants for 100 years anon. They're the safest. What a ridiculous thing to say lol
>>534174253
>>534180985>You pentagon nafo sisters are really not good at coordinating your lies.I am convinced that NAFO is handled from a couple different information warfare units that only talk to each other occasionally if at all and don't keep their message straight. If you go to /k/ you sometimes see them calling each other zigger over minute differences in messaging.
>>534181464And we dumped all the waste barrels into the sea until 1963. Then we tried landfilling them until we realized the waste was seeping into the groundwater. Since then, there still haven't been any good solutions.
>>534181656Shoot them into the sun
>>534181365>They did, and canada wasn't allowed to return them because of your sanctions.What the fuck are you talking about, brown subhuman? "Canada" "returned them" to Germany. Gazprom refused to provide transport documentation to Germany, i.e. refused delivery.All parties waived sanctions. The USA, Canada, and Germany for their energy. It was only 7 months after the pipeline blew up and was inoperable that Canada restored their waived sanctions on Russia. You do not know what the fuck you are talking about.You are brown and subhuman, in a country you do not belong in.Now, go ahead and post the preponderance of evidence that "points to" the USA, so I can laugh at you posting Seymour Hersh whose shitty article was invalidated with the most bare minimum research using open source AIS data.And then post the fact that arrest warrants have been issued for poles and ukrainians and that they have them on camera.Time to go back to your loli porn thread, /chug/, you subhuman shitskinned asiatic.
>>534181067Lazy evasion. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
>>534181464100 years? You can't even do basic math they haven't been around that long
why dont you guys just use that map her https://app.electricitymaps.com
>>534174626This is truth. He needs one they're building outside of Houston is from Tokyo electric. The same people that brought you Fukishima or whatever it was back in 2011.
>>534174630>if any spill happens ...>IF>instead let's definitely destroy the land with 1,000 acre lithium leeching pools
>>534181802your the nigger, they were supposed to be delivered DIRECTLY to russia, not goymoney aka they way they came from.Then cucknadians engneired some way to drop the hot potato to germany who were dumbfound somthing reciving something they didn't expected.
>>534181818>you rounded a number?>you cant even do basic mathThat degree i have is strange thenDo you have anything of value to say?
>>534181988When your adding years to talk about a level of technology it's kind of disingenuous
>>534174253Insanely expensive to a point they will never pay for themselves. Plus it takes decades to build one, and there are too many NIMBYs to allow them.
>>534181949>they were supposed to be delivered DIRECTLY to russiaNo, they weren't.https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/07/13/eu-and-us-welcome-canadas-decision-to-return-russian-turbine-to-germany>the equipment was blocked from being shipped back to Germany.
>>534181567Yes, there seem to be different factions. First, there are the redditors who see this as a defense of liberal democracy. Then there are the neo-nazis—and I only use the term "nazi" here because I consider most neo-nazis to be punks who use the whole thing for larping as national socialists. Then there are the zoggers who, funnily enough, see ukraine for what it is: a war waged by the (((american empire))) to subdue russia.
>>534174253it would have been a great idea 20 years ago. Today, I wouldn't trust contractors to build so much as a lemonade stand.
>>534181949This
>>534182201Try posting a rebuttal to my post.Then, when you fail at that, because you're shitskinned and subhuman, fail at posting a timestamp with your skin color. Because I know what you are. Albanian, pajeet, whatever it is that you are: you are a subhuman asiatic somewhere you do not belong.
>>534174253>Why don't we just build more nuke plants? Designs are incredibly safeWe need to have all stupid people sterilized or better yet killed and removed from society. At the very least none of you should be allowed to drink alcohol or take drugs or drive vehicles of any kind or hold positions of responsibility over groups of people.
>>534182298What can I say to the fact that you're lying? Russia has always sent its turbines to Canada for maintenance, and Canada has always sent them directly back to Russia. And that's how it should work this time too.
>>534174253Jews
>>534182083Cool. Do you have a single thing of value to say?
>>534174469But it's worth it in the long run.The point is that not every country every time can build it.
>>534182394https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/07/13/eu-and-us-welcome-canadas-decision-to-return-russian-turbine-to-germany>the equipment was blocked from being shipped back to Germany.>y-y-you're lyinghttps://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5468944Wrong, shitskinned subhuman asiatic. The plan was, from Russia's own media:"leaving Canada by plane for Germany, tobe subsequently transported to Russia by ferry and on land via Finland. It is expected to arrive atPortovaya around 24 July. It will then take another three to four days to install and prepare the turbine for operation. The turbine would therefore not be back in service until the end of July at the earliest, and more likely early August"Russia did not provide transport documentation, and therefore refused delivery.And in fact, was reducing supplies and declaring force majeure, a day after the turbine had even left Canada. In effect, it was using its energy lever to pressure European buyers despite , not just the excuse of being unable to build and maintain their own turbines. So when their turbine issue was solved, they just went forward with trying to pressure European buyers in other ways.Now, go ahead and post the preponderance of evidence supposedly pointing to the USA in blowing up the pipeline, so I can embarrass you by posting Seymour Hersh, like I knew you would, because you are a shitskinned asiatic.
>>534174469nuclear power will cut into big oil's profits and we can't have that
>>534182881>But it's worth it in the long run.France is currently drowning in renovation costs while a lot of its power plants are shut down.
>>534176525We would need to do it at scale like france did it in 70's sadly there is not enough political will to do it and people protest to much >>534176525Also austrians should STFU about nuclear as they haven't been able to open single one due to protests and tried cockblock Czech republic's nuclear power plants. If we would build at scale 30-40 units at european scale costs would be much lower.
>>534182927It took you a long time to come up with an argument. The contract between Siemens and Gazprom stipulated direct delivery from Russia to Montreal and direct delivery back. And that's always been the procedure. Then Canada refused to allow export due to sanctions. That's why they sent it to Germany, where it's still located today. Everything else is speculation and lies.
>>534182927Oh, and furthermore, both strands of NS1 were destroyed in the sabotage. Russia continues to offer to put the still intact strand of NS2 into operation.
>>534174253The competency crisis has really hit the USA hard. People are fully retarded. I'll give you a relevant example. I personally know a man who was working on a new nuclear power plant construction. These things take years and require tons of permits. Apparently what they did is they rushed construction and had the construction people build the entire cooling tower, and then the other crew came in and said no we needed to put all the wiring and pipes under the cooling tower before you built it, now you have to knock it all down and start over.
>>534182201I think each of those factions has government backed shills among them, the redditors are supported by the NED and other NGOs, the neo-nazis are the FBI like usual, and the zoggers are probably actual zogbots in a cubicle in some army or airforce base somewhere.
>>534183740European glowies and NGOs are certainly involved as well. But yes, it hasn't seemed organic for a long time. There may have been organic currents at one time, but interest has waned considerably.
>>534183276It took me a long time to find the source in actual Russian so you could finally fuck off.Now, again, that was the plan for this specific delivery, straight from the Russian media.It was never the case that Russia routinely sent the turbines to Canada. In fact, the maintenance was all done on site pre-2022. And not only that, they took the five turbines offline, not just the ones that needed repairs, and Canada had in fact waived the sanctions in such a way that allowed routine maintenance in addition to allowing Russia to send turbines to Canada and be returned to Germany. So, in fact, that was the plan, from the beginning of July.https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-russia-energy-gas-crunch-nord-stream-shutoff-ukraine-war/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadas-deal-to-allow-repair-of-sanctioned-russian-turbines-covers/For over two years, so the idea that Russia could not fulfill what they needed to based off of a fear of not being able to do ongoing maintenance is just bullshit.Now, again, for the fifth time, go ahead and post that preponderance of evidence. I've been patient enough with a shitskinned subhuman like you, and as far as I'm concerned you've been thoroughly blown the fuck out.If you don't, or post Seymour Hersh, or are referencing Hersh's fiction which is easily refuted with open source vessel tracking data, I will take that as your concession that you're subhuman and brown.
>>534184085>was all done on site pre-2022And you start your post with another lie. The contract between Siemens and Gazprom, which stipulates a major overhaul in Canada every 30,000 operating hours, was signed directly upon completion of NS1. I'm not even going to read the rest. Good luck, sister. Im out.
>>534174253women in power are too retarded to understand it and the men that simp for them follow along in banning it or heavily restricting it
>>534184042>European glowies and NGOs are certainly involved as well.I don't think there is really that much of a difference between European glowies and NGOs and US ones anymore. The Swiss ones probably aren't as integrated yet since you guys were taken over more recently and not quite as completely, but most of Europe's glow/NGO apparatus has been more or less merged with their US counterparts. >But yes, it hasn't seemed organic for a long time. There may have been organic currents at one time, but interest has waned considerably.I fell for it and supported Ukraine for the first year or two, but at a certain point I woke up and went "what the fuck is wrong with me". I am now driven to hate NAFO out of a combination of embarrassment and resentment for having been tricked into supporting the government, along with the fact that they're still occupying /k/, which used to be my favorite board.
>>534184425>a major overhaul in CanadaAnd guess what shitskin, the five turbines magically needing a major overhaul all at the same time doesn't make sense. That's obviously not routine maintenance. I don't know if you knew this, but "major overhaul" and "routine maintenance" is contradictory.Are Russians incompetent enough to take all of their capacity offline at once in need of "major overhauls" to be shipped to Canada, or are they attempting to use it as an energy level to get what they want from the Europeans?Nordstream operated at nearly always 100% capacity throughout the years, and magically the majority of capacity is gone for maintenance.The answer is obviously the energy lever, because when the turbine is finally shipped they declare force majeure and pressure European buyers in those ways.Now, I accept your concession. You lost, you're brown, you're subhuman. Now seethe for me, you stupid shitskin. Back to your loli porn thread.
>>534184582You're not wrong about that. Many NGOs in europe are funded by american billionaires, and our glowniggers are branches of your glowniggers. Unfortunately, this also applies to switzerland.>>534184582>the fact that they're still occupying /k/, which used to be my favorite boardYou often read that on /pol/ these days. I only noticed it when they started moving political posts, which were often not political at all, but simply disadvantageous for ukraine, to /pol/.
>>534176121>the spike in electricity costs are due to France getting BTFO their former colonies in the Sahel by Wagner and now having to pay market rates for uraniumThe spike in electricity costs is mostly due to the german-led EU which tries its very best to fuck us over real hard.Pic related.
>>534182997Bullshit. Swiss kikes lie as they breathe
>>534176756>find out about france's energy situation65%+ nuclear on averageSelling tons of energy to the neighbours
>>534185305He's not a mountain kike, he's albanian or a pajeet.
>>534185306>Selling tons of energy to the neighbours*Selling tons of energy to the neighbours in the summer
>>534174253doesnt make The Holy Gee Dee Pee line go up. could rather sell goyim new solar panels every 5 years when they need replaced. that makes gee dee pee line go up up up!
>>534176746It is you dumb German dipshit. I don't want to hear any Germans talk about nuclear after your retarded government abandoned it.
>>534185305>Bullshit. Swiss kikes lie as they breathe130 billion euros may not be a lot of money for you, but for france it's a considerable amount.
>>534174253antisemetic
>>534185370All year round, why are you such a lying faggot?Check out the stats: https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/cross-border-electricity-trading#
>>534185458Their GDP is something like $3.5 trillion
>>534185617What does that have to do with it? EDF's debt has now reached over 50 billion and the strained budget situation of france is currently based almost solely on the need to refurbish its nuclear power plants.
>>534174253>cheapNo. Making Nuclear power safe made it expensive.
>>534174469All three points are irrelevant. Power needs are ramping up due to AI and their data centers, and damn near the cheapest energy we have access to.
>>534174465Who gives a shit what the masses of retarded normies think about anything? That's never stopped the government before.
>>534185519You export significantly less in winter, and your energy security was significantly at risk in the winters of 2017 and 2022.
>>534184938>Unfortunately, this also applies to switzerland.That really is a shame. Is there any positive movement on that neutrality referendum, or has that been killed?>You often read that on /pol/ these days.Some day we will reclaim our homeland.>I only noticed it when they started moving political posts, which were often not political at all, but simply disadvantageous for ukraine, to /pol/.It seems to extend beyond just having NAFO jannies, they seem to have mods on their payroll too. They'll ban you for just talking about technical aspects of weapons if it contradicts a Ukrainian talking point. I got banned for just posting a diagram of an S-300 complex's components because it contradicted a lie some NAFO shill was trying to sell. I can't even remember what the point was, but my post was purely related to technical matters. I also saw posts get deleted and their posters were presumably banned for just posting pictures that illustrated that an Mi-28 has a different cockpit layout that was being claimed. It really is just impossible to talk about even western weapons on /k/, since any time you talk about their technical qualities you are implicitly acknowledging that they have limitations.
>>534186112>the cheapest energy we have access toNot even close. The strength of nuclear power lies in its ability to stabilize the power grid, not in being cheap.
>>534174253>Why don't we just build more nuke plants? Designs are incredibly safe and it is like cheap, unlimited power?50 years of environmentalist antinuke activism has ironically killed the best solution to global warming there is, besides solar geoengineering
>>534186627>the best solution to global warming there isLmao>solar geoengineeringevilYou should concentrate on burying trees because of CO2 or something.
>>534186826>>the best solution to global warming there is>Lmaowe have enough uranium to power the whole globe at 1st world levels for 1000s of years if not 10000years
>>534174253Jews can't control them as well. They don't want the planet to have energy autonomy.
>>534174253Build more nuclear plants and pollute the earth with massive amounts of radiation smoke that you can clearly see coming out of the reactor towers?No thanks!
>>534186534*BZZZZZZZT* Incorrect.Nuclear has a very high upfront build cost yes, but it still produces cheaper power than other "green" methods over the course of it's lifetime.Only Coal and Natural gas truly beat it. And obviously those also have their own set drawbacks.
>>534186461>neutrality referendumThe vote will probably take place in the fall. I hope it passes. Then our politicians would be forbidden from selling us out to international organizations, and we would no longer participate in any sanctions. I need to tell my swiss mother, who lives in germany, that she has to definitely vote by mail.
It's very long to build and you need experts to build it.
>>534187094>Nuclear has a very high upfront build cost yesAnd very high renovation costs after a few decades, just ask france. In addition, there are hidden subsidies through nuclear waste disposal and accident insurance.Coal, natural gas and oil are the energy sources that power the world and that will probably never change.
>>534186999are you pretending to be retarded?you better not be
>>534187346I agree that coal and natural gas aren't going anywhere. But they cannot continue to scale up effectively especially as Greenies continue to put more regulatory tape in the way of both building new plants and operating current ones. Nuclear power fills the stopgap. Trumps DoE have been very pro-nuclear as well which helps secure investment for further development which can also continue to drive the cost down, especially for SMRs. The US just extended the life of a few plants (like Diablo Canyon) as well. America is going pretty hard in nuclear right now, finally after 60 fucking years we are back.
>>534174253They can put these things in boats and subs but for some reason when its for civilians its like 50 billion dollars and takes 10 years to build.
>>534187123>The vote will probably take place in the fall. I hope it passes.Good luck!>Then our politicians would be forbidden from selling us out to international organizations, and we would no longer participate in any sanctions.Don't underestimate the EU/US ability to just ignore laws and do whatever the hell they want with your government. They're still going to try.>I need to tell my swiss mother, who lives in germany, that she has to definitely vote by mail.Tell your friends, tell your family, go to the bus or train stop and try to convince strangers.>>534187346>And very high renovation costs after a few decades, just ask france. In addition, there are hidden subsidies through nuclear waste disposal and accident insurance.I've been hearing for decades that the biggest cost in both those cases is regulatory. That without government involvement nuclear plants could be built much more quickly and cheaply and would be much less expensive to maintain. What is your take on that?
>>534187550You at least see it a bit more realistically, but most of the arguments here remind me a lot of the pay gap arguments of feminists. One can argue that subsidies manipulate the market, but to say that capitalists would forgo nuclear power even though it's the cheapest, really doesn't make any sense.
>>534187369>can't identify obvious baityou're new here aren't you?
>>534187589Boat is simpler. One set of design. Military use means high importance and less regulatory red tape. Uses seawater for constant uninterrupted supply of water for steam turbine. Etc.
>>534174253Everyone should go watch this documentary and stop acting like nuclear radiation is some big scary boogeyman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CrhZpFpZk
We were designing a reactor with such reduced uranium consumption, Europe using traitor Macron had to kill it.
>>534187838I was looking for a reaction picture that said exactly that but couldn't find it in my 400gb reaction folder so I typed it out instead you stick up your ass faggot.
>>534187891>Europe using traitor Macron had to kill itI'm so fed up with the EU.
>>534176433Thank the gods, someone else who knows about this shit. Molten salt reactors are cheaper to build, require less space, and use thorium for 99.9% of their fuel requirements. We've been able to build them for decades but nooo, that might make sense.Also, look at this fucking map. America has shitloads of thorium, and a lot of it is in economically depressed areas. A full-scale push for nationwide MSR infrastructure would massively help rural America.>>534186627>>534182934These guys get it. Big Oil and Big Coal financed anti-nuke environmental activists to squash a potential competitor. The folks profiting off solar and wind are also doing the same.>>534180092Another sad truth.
>>534174253big oil paid a lot of money to fearmonger and make the green movement anti-nuclear back in the 70s when nuclear had a good chance to fuck over the coal and gas industry but wind and solar were still decades away from being an actual threat.
>>534187600>I've been hearing for decades that the biggest cost in both those cases is regulatory. That without government involvement nuclear plants could be built much more quickly and cheaply and would be much less expensive to maintain. What is your take on that?There's some truth to that. The problem with less regulation is that it means they install fewer safety systems to save money. That can work out well, of course, but it can also go very wrong. The guys who dived to the titanic in their submarine also thought their calculations were correct. If a regulatory authority had checked their data, they would never have been allowed to dive. Just a small, far-fetched example. Ultimately, it's about finding a middle ground between the absolute freedom of capitalism and over-regulation. And that's often not easy.
>>534188233
>>534174253cool it with the antisemitism.
>>534187891America knows that pain all too well, we basically killed our nuclear energy development in the 80s.But we are back at it again 40 years later. Hopefully France can circle back around to their development in due time. It's not like the development of that technology was completely lost.
>>534175170Didn't trump make this a thing? Seriously asking. I thought I say a head line saying he signed an EO about it.
>>534174253It's pretty dam expensive.
>>534188233>>534188591The anti-nuclear movement was one of the most organic movements in human history before the glowniggers started to take it over. It was able to mobilize hundreds of thousands of people for demonstrations. People are genuinely afraid of radiation, and why shouldn't they be? Radiation is one of the most dangerous things known to humankind.
>>534188801They're restarting Three Mile Island to power Microsoft data centers.
>>534185306Are you comfy Françiú?
>>534181656Bullshit. We have plenty of old dry mines to put the waste in, including mines where we got the radioactive material in the first place. It's no more dangerous to put it back than it was being their in the first place.
>>534174253>Designs are incredibly safeIn May 1986, while Chernobyl's radioactive cloud was passing over West Germany, this privately owned nuclear reactor found a brilliant way of cleaning its pipes of radioactive fuel pellets that were starting to fragment and clog them. Those pellets were made of Uranium-235 and Thorium-232, embedded in a graphite matrix, and they used exhaust gas under pressure to vent them to the outside. That exhaust gas also contained radioactive helium.The free hand of the market would have gotten away with it, if not for some pesky whistleblower and some environment monitoring stations that detected an isotope that could not have been produced at Chernobyl. Guess who had to bailout the company and pay for the plant's decommission.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300#Incidentshttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernkraftwerk_THTR-300#Emission_radioaktiver_Aerosole_am_4._Mai_1986_unmittelbar_nach_dem_Tschernobyl-Unfallhttps://www.thelocal.de/20160520/german-nuclear-plant-pumped-radioactive-waste-into-air
>>534186999How do you know it's radioactive and not just regular steam?
>>534174253>Why don't we just build more nuke plants?Yeah bro, I've been saying this since 1993. I was born in 1990.
>>534174465>Because the builds are absurdly expensive. We send trillions to Israel and other foreign nations.
>>534188909>They're restarting Three Mile Island to power Microsoft data centers.It's OK. They're used to core meltdowns by now. Part of the local charm.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident#Documentaries
>>534188980The germans thought so too, until they discovered that saltic water was seeping into the tunnels, the barrels were rusting through, and the waste was seeping into the groundwater.
>>534188257>There's some truth to that. The problem with less regulation is that it means they install fewer safety systems to save money.I think that happens when you have less regulation but the same level of protection from liability that comes with a heavily regulated industry. You see that a lot when things are deregulated. They get rid of the regulations but continue to treat any harm the industry causes as if it were on the government or the public to prevent the harm rather than returning to a recognition that if a firm causes harm, they are liable for the harm they caused. A lot of the danger caused by underspending on safety can be ameliorated by that. Also insurance companies should be allowed to discriminate more against risky behaviors. A lot of the time it's illegal for an insurance company to deny coverage to a risky client or to charge them more even when it's obvious they are a bigger risk.>The guys who dived to the titanic in their submarine also thought their calculations were correct.That was their problem and they paid the price for it, I don't see why this is a cautionary tale in favor of regulation.>Ultimately, it's about finding a middle ground between the absolute freedom of capitalism and over-regulation.I'm firmly in the camp of capitalism, but you're mistaken in believing that is absolute freedom. Even in pure anarcho-capitalism there are heavy constraints imposed by things like insurance and contractual obligations on what you are allowed to do, and unlike in the current regulatory environment there is no excuse that "well I was following the government's regulations, so I can't be held liable for the damages caused by my negligence" when taken to court. In some cases they might even be more intrusive than the constraints imposed by the state, although they would also be more efficient and easier to work around.
>>534188909That's good, no? I hate pajeet-soft, but if 3 mile island starts up, that won't put strain on the grid for civilians and might even have excess power sold to the power companies.
>>534189200This reminds me that my government wanted to build a test reactor right in the middle of zurich, but then, after protests, built it in a bunker in the alps. Naturally, an incident occurred, and they sealed the bunker.
>>534189374>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucens_reactor
>>534188857the anti-nuclear movement has always preyed on ignorance and was always funded by special interests like the american petroleum institute, people are afraid of the dangers of radiation due to not really knowing anything about it other than seeing in movies that it's the apocalypse thing that uses scary invisible radiation to destroy world. while the actual dangers require combining every nuclear energy death combined since it's inception to get on par with a fraction of the average day in the coal industry.
>>534189374>Naturally, an incident occurred, and they sealed the bunker.This reminds me that Switzerland relies heavily on nuclear power during winter.They used to send their nuclear waste to Germany - for a fee - but that stopped after the Asse II mine started flooding.Last I heard, it was just being stockpiled on the surface, somewhere in Switzerland. Any developments?
>>534189259>metal barrels>in a salt mineThat's retarded. Must have been your idea.>the waste was seeping into the groundwater.That never happened.Put some tar on it. Waterproofing isn't a new field.
>>534189261Okay, I think I understand now what you were getting at. I think without government participation, there wouldn't be any nuclear reactors. The insurance costs would be immense, and the insurance company might even demand more safety measures as the goverment now. Of course, that would only apply if insurance were mandatory. Otherwise, you could build a nuclear power plant with a limited liability company and declare bankruptcy in the event of an incident.
>>534189162Israel deserves that money more than we do
>>534190014>Put some tar on it. Waterproofing isn't a new field."After the controversies about the facility became public and the operator was changed to the Federal Office for Radiation Protection, a new plan was developed in 2010. It became obvious that the recovery of the waste is necessary for long-term safety. The waste is planned to be collected by remotely controlled robots, sealed in safe containers, and stored temporarily above ground. Preparations include creating a new shaft that will be big enough and building the above ground storage facility. The estimated costs for the closure of the mine are estimated to be at least 3.7 billion Euro. The recovery of the waste and closure of the mine will be paid with tax money, not by the operators of the German nuclear plants, even though most of the waste was created by them. The beginning of the recovery is planned to start in 2033 and is estimated to last for decades.Chamber 7 is designated to be the first one for recovery. It contains low and medium level waste covered by salt. Test drillings in 2017 offered the first pictures from inside the chamber since decades, they show damaged and rusted containers." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine#Current_progress
>>534190014>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine
>>534174469there's also the fact that it takes decades to repay itself only for it to have a risk of shutting down because of hippies fearmongering about it
>>534185306they have to sell because they can't reduce production... on some days, they even sell it significantly cheaper than to their own residents...
>>534189886Apparently, we're storing it somewhere in containers, and they've been looking for a suitable storage location for ages.I think nuclear power will be put to a vote here within the next few years. A few years ago, we had an incident at a nuclear power plant in aargau, and ´after they couldn't find the fault, they simply restarted it anyway. That changed the mood here, which was otherwise rather in favor of it.
>>534174253>Why don't we just build more nuke plants? Designs are incredibly safe and it is like cheap, unlimited power?
>>534189316I mean I'd prefer modular molten salt reactors but it's a start.
>>534190102>I think without government participation, there wouldn't be any nuclear reactors. The insurance costs would be immense, and the insurance company might even demand more safety measures as the goverment now.possibly, but I think the profit incentive is just too appealing and the risks are extremely manageable. I think we'd see extremely large nuclear plants which consolidate the risks and maximize output, at least at first.. Most safety measures for nuclear facilities are either one time up front costs or can be consolidated, so going big is probably the correct choice. They'd probably be built well away from populated areas, and would rely on ultra-high voltage lines or something to reduce the energy loss in transmission. Over time as the technology improves and the insurance companies learn how to correctly assess and price the risks most efficiently, you would see the costs fall and smaller nuclear facilities would arise closer to their clients.>Of course, that would only apply if insurance were mandatory. Otherwise, you could build a nuclear power plant with a limited liability company and declare bankruptcy in the event of an incident.If we're talking about a completely deregulated market, with even courts and law enforcement being privatized, then the insurance companies of those effected by radioactive incidents would not take corporate legal fuck fuck games seriously and would simply hold those responsible liable. Defense is the natural remit of insurance companies in a free market, so they would be in a position to collect by force if necessary. Insurance companies might even just deny coverage to clients who buy uninsured nuclear power, which would make uninsured nuclear plants even less appealing. I don't think an uninsured nuclear plant would even be able to get into operation, since insurance companies would throw an absolute conniption and would try every non-aggressive means possible to discourage it.
>>534190756This was the sale of a canadian company to a russian company. The US only had veto power because the canadian company owned 20% of the US uranium reserves. A simple uranium export ban would solve the problem. The meme is quite misleading.
>>534174253They are gigantic and expensive teakettles that, if built improperly, fuck up a large radius of land for a time period longer than current human civilization has existed up until now.
>>534174253OY VEYYYYYY STOP IT WITH THE ANTISEMITISMYOU COULD THROW US INTO A REACTOR AND CALL IT A NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST
>>534174253They're much more expensive to build and require special permission and permitting (only the state can use the magic rocks).In order to be more profitable than a fossil fuel plant you have to run them for several decades in order to realize the reduced fuel costs. However, we've been "close" to energy technology improvements for decades which would make any previous investment less valuable.
>>534174253Based plant.
>>534174253Because:1. Cultural marxism(hippie green shit) pushed by Russia in order to weak western countries 2. Russians are too dumb to boil water so since then everybody is affraid to boil water too.
>>534174253>and it is like cheap, unlimited power?That's why. Moshe and Shlomo have to make their money by charging the goyim for their energy.
>>534174469One of my high school teachers was a MENSA member and had been a nuclear engineer at one point. I believe this.
>>534174469>Employer qualification requirementsWhat the fuck are you talking about? Nuclear Power Plant Technician is consistently listed as one of the highest paying jobs you can get with just a high school education.
>>534190875You're citing market concepts that I can't disagree with. If your assumptions are correct, then it would probably work that way. But I think I assess the current influence of governments as less than you do. If something is lucrative, it gets done; if not here, then somewhere else. The market always finds a way to circumvent governments and regulations. That's why I don't believe the assumption that it's truly lucrative. Let me put it this way: what's stopping a billionaire from going to a poor country, buying off the government, building countless nuclear power plants, and creating an energy-intensive industry undercutting anyone else?
>>534174253Because that would positively contribute to Western civilization and we can't have that anymore.
>>534174465>>5341742531 of the less than 1 thousand nuclear plant's built on planet earth was recently attacked accidentally this if it was the only ever nuclear disastor in recorded history would put a failure rate at lets say 1 in 1 thousand so .1%ok that sounds " reasonable"the failure has cost ecenomically about the same as building 30 plants and by the end of the containments lifetime it will have cost more than every nuclear powerplant's energy production combined by a factor of 100if we look at this single fact alone we dont count anything elsejust pure ecenomic's who cares about polution human lives all of it we just ignoreit is the worst possible power investment by magnitudes it is nothing short of stupid now lets keep looking at just the ecenomic's and examine another disastor *ohh nooo the failure rate just jumped to 1% what the fuck*if there had been just 2 disastors.... you get the fucking idea you have to not just completly ignore reality you have to ignore your own fucking justification for the plant'sif you want to say we need continuous power supply and dont have batterys im all for it we could have planted a fucking rainforest and burnt wood for better ecenomic outcomesthis is just looking at power output also not even the real ecenomics of a nuclear facility
In Part I.A.12 of my letter to Dr. Skrbina dated March 17, 2005, I expressed the opinion, based on “the demonstrated unreliability of untested technological solutions,” that the nuclear-waste disposal site at Yucca Mountain, Nevada likely would prove to be a failure. It may be of interest to trace the subsequent history of the Yucca Mountain site as reported in the media.On March 18, 2005, The Denver Post, page 4A, carried an Associated Press report by Erica Werner according to which then-recent studies had found that water seepage through the Yucca Mountain site was faster than what earlier studies had reported. The more-rapid movement of water implied a greater risk of escape of radioactive materials from the site, and there were reasons to suspect that the earlier studies had been intentionally falsified.The Week,, January 26, 2007, page 24, reported a new study: “Special new containers designed to hold nuclear waste for tens of thousands of years may begin to fall apart in just 210 years,” the study found. “Researchers... had pinned their hopes on zircon, a material they thought was stable enough to store the waste....” The scientists had based this belief on computer simulations, but they were “startled” when they discovered how alpha radiation affected the “zircon” in reality.Zircon is a gemstone. The substance referred to in the article presumably is a ceramic called transformation-toughened zirconia. See NEB (2003), Vol. 21, “Industrial Ceramics,” pages 262-63.
>>534192138ContinuedOn September 25, 2007, The Denver Post, page 2A, reported: “Engineers moved some planned structures at the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump after rock samples indicated a fault line unexpectedly ran beneath their original location....”On March 6, 2009, The Denver Post, page 14A, carried an Associated Press report by H.Josef Hebert according to which the U.S. Government had abandoned the plan to store reactor waste at Yucca Mountain. This after having spent 13.5 billion dollars on the project.On July 15, 2011, USA Today, page 4A, carried an Associated Press report to the effect that the U.S. House of Representatives had appropriated funds for further consideration of the plan to store nuclear waste at the Yucca Mountain site.As of April 2016 I've made no systematic effort to follow these developments further, but if any major, definitive action had been taken for the permanent disposal of radioactive waste it probably would have been well publicized, and we would know about it. Various alternatives have been proposed (see Wald in our List of Works Cited), but whatever solution—if any—is eventually adopted, its execution inevitably will be characterized by negligence, incompetence, and dishonesty. See, e.g., The Economist, March 19, 2011, page 40; Eisler, page 2A. More likely, no definitive action will ever be taken for the permanent disposal of radioactive waste in the U.S. The problem will be allowed to drag on indefinitely, and meanwhile new nuclear power-plants will continue to be built, the festering pools of deadly stuff will grow and grow...
>>534192138>>534192198By Ted kaczynski
>>534174253Nuclear isn't the way, nuclear waste is troublesome to handle and represent a constant cost forever. Solar is the way, and the future is for Solar and Space industry, future lays on orbital solar power plants.Fission is problematic, Fusion is dangerous since it waste our more valuable resource that is water.Lunar industrial infrastructure to manufacture solar power plants, to put them in orbit for Earth's power demand is the only sustainable way.
>>534192252the waste management alone is a good enough reason to not have themif you want to look into fucked up waste management practises that are anti thetical to humanity as a species nuclear is not even close to the worst but a very solid addition only by virtue of un-hinged francly if demonic was an idea this would be the only reasonable description demonic practises by other corperations is nuclear not the most anti human waste management catastrophy in human history
>>534174253only functional countries like china can build cost effective nuclear power plants. the west has become too dysfunctional for this. but its not a big deal. ai will enable fusion which is better
>>534174253under the old petrodollar system they decided that nuclear energy was national soverignty that was against the interests of the us dollar empire.might be different now though, as nuclear waste supply chains become integrated to faciliate higher teir trade infrastructure
>>534192379at one point we just dumped it into the sea.... something that has been repeated .... repeatedly an idustry standard is dumping waste into the sea" safe waste right"well mostly safe waste is pumped into the sea by pipline.... thats already insanebut very very unsafe was dumped so unsafe that its still classified as to what the fuck it was its an idustry practise to just put it in the ocean...what are we even talking about or to bury it in mountain's and shit... how do you make money when your forced to hollow out fucking mountains and turn them into irradiated deathtraps for the next billion years.....what the fuck
>>534192503We've been talking about fusion for a long time and I thought I had seen every hope, cope and seethe about it but I was wrong>ai will enable fusion
>>534192627It's all short term gain it's like niggers the future or past doesn't exist just them now
>>534192655Kek. Two decades more.
>>534192627>how do you make money when your forced to hollow out fucking mountains and turn them into irradiated deathtraps for the next billion years.....That's where you got the already radioactive material in the first place, and the energy density of uranium means there's significantly less mountain hollowing than any other form of energy.
>>534192700I had hoped that the "after me the deluge" mantra would die with the boomers.
>>534192780so you have to dig up two mountains .... kekeven smarterFREE ENERGY requires digging up 1 mountain to beginand 1 mountain to end its so cheap that its unbelivableno plant has ever produced more money than the cost of building the fucking plantlet alone running itlet alone all the other shit the "free" energy is the most expencive energy planet earth has to offer.....
>>534192655you dont understand ai but you will see soon enough
>>534192884ohh and if you make a mistake it will cost about 4% of gdp for the next thousand yearswhilest just catasrophically poisioning everything around it but its litterly to expencive to not let it do that so you mostly contain it for a thousand years
>>534192627>how do you make money when your forced to hollow out fno your supposed to achieve alchemistic mastery and downcycle it to the last kilijoule and make colourful glass necklaces, betavoltaics, and pharma isotopes from the remains
>>534191755>But I think I assess the current influence of governments as less than you do.I think that the Swiss government is less intrusive than the US government in regards to the economy in many ways. So that may simply be a matter of perspective.>If something is lucrative, it gets done; if not here, then somewhere else.Indeed, although for nuclear power to be lucrative I think it needs to be done at large scale, and in Europe most countries are either radically anti-nuclear or are rather small. France being to most notable exception. In the US the government does a lot to prevent nuclear power from being profitable, including destroying our industrial base so that we don't have as much demand for power. We do see a lot of nuclear power in Russia and China, which while not being very capitalist are more capitalist than the US.>what's stopping a billionaire from going to a poor country, buying off the government, building countless nuclear power plants, and creating an energy-intensive industryA couple things. First of all you'd have to deal with the fact that the US empire would probably try to intervene, secondly energy intensive industries are usually high tech and require lots of expertise and capital, so on top of the cost of building up entire industries from scratch you'd also be paying for importing experts and equipment instead of simply providing power to meet existing demand, and thirdly the upfront cost would be a lot higher than a single billionaire could handle on their own, and fourthly all of America's billionaires are not traditional capitalist entrepreneurs, they are entrepreneurs in finding ways to get the state to make them rich. They simply are not the sort of people who would go out and do something productive on their own, instead if someone tried to do that they'd find a way to get the US empire to force them to transfer ownership of the company to them, then they'd run it into the ground.
>>534174253Current nuclear plants are anything but cheap and the bureaucracy around them is a part of the problem. The energy industry and petrodollar are some of the others. One possible bright spot in the argument is the chinks and jeets DGAF about ethical environmental concerns and are both pushing forward with thorium. If by some Christmas miracle they pull it off without fucking it up. We will have to follow suit (unfortunately almost certainly in the most retarded least efficient way possible). So for better or worse never say never on nuclear.
>>534193043kek yfw they used to actually do that and uncountable numbers of people were affectedit was in paint medicne makeup perfume u fucking name it
>>534192884Why would you have to dig up two mountains when you already have a hole in the first one?>no plant has ever produced more money than the cost of building the fucking plantWe're talking about nuclear here, not windmills. They turn a profit despite inviting ngo's explicitly opposed to it's success to be part regulating it.
>>534193598name any nuclear plantlook up the cost of constructionlook up the cost of power in the nationlook up the price of power and get a calculator if its by some miricle in profit start looking at what it actually takes to run the systems its attached to ie waste management nuclear plants are efficient at converting rocks into steamnuclear plants and the infastructure involved with them are not efficient
>>534174469>NIMBYSI think you mean female European politicians.
>>534193741also gpt thinks they make 50 billion in profit a year brought to you by the nuclear asociation so America could end its national debt in 10 fucking year's if that made up number is to be believed if they build 100 poweplants we would all have ferrari's ..........
>>534193049>We do see a lot of nuclear power in Russia and ChinaFor russia, it's 7% of their total energy consumption. For china, it's 2-3%. I should point out here that I looked up the figures for energy, not electricity, as that often causes confusion. Shouldn't china, which is electrifying its heating and vehicles at an extremely rapid pace, be particularly interested in such a concept, assuming it produces cheaper electricity?
>>534193741Most of themhttps://www.monitoringanalytics.com/reports/PJM_State_of_the_Market/2021/2021q3-som-pjm-sec7.pdf
>>534194089>https://www.monitoringanalytics.com/reports/PJM_State_of_the_Market/2021/2021q3-som-pjm-sec7.pdfThe analysis of nuclear plants includes annual avoidable costs and incremental capital expenditures from the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI) based on NEI’s calculations of average costs for all U.S. nuclear plants.27 28 The analysis includes the most recent operating cost data and incremental capital expenditure data for single unit plants and multi unit plants published by NEI, for 2019.29 This is likely to result in conservatively high costs for the forward looking analysisread your own study this isnt even a comprihensive price breakdown
>>53419428240 Operating costs from: Nuclear Energy Institute (October, 2020). “Nuclear Costs in Context,” <https://www.nei.org/resources/reports-briefs/nuclear-costs-in-context>.nice fine print the context being half the price is missing the entirety of the extended price is missingand its still comparitvely expencive given a conservative estimate baised for nuclear generation... phenomenal study you have
>>534194519In 2020, no nuclear plants covered their fuel costs, operating costs, and capital expenditures as a result of lower energy prices, based on current year (2020) prices.your study btwNuclear unit revenue is a combination of energy market revenue, ancillary market revenue and capacity market revenue. Negative energy market prices do not have a significant impact on nuclear unit revenue.
>>534194008China is constructing 34 new nuclear plants right now, and they already have 62 in service. They seem extremely interested in expanding their nuclear infrastructure, but they're also increasing all of their energy infrastructure at the same time, so the proportion seems small compared to the rate at which they are expanding it. Russia also has a few reactors under construction I think, although I haven't paid much attention to that. I'm not saying nuclear power should completely supplant other energy sources, my contention is merely that it is a profitable and appealing energy source and that it shouldn't be banned or heavily regulated to the degree it currently is. Especially with the supply crunch we are facing in terms of oil and LNG.
>>534194282>high costs = not profitable>t.reddit spacing retardNuclear is such a juggernaut that it still turns a profit despite all the sabotage of faux environmentalists, and I do mean literal sabotage. Rearranged plumbing and disconnected wires at three mile island causing the first of only 3 commercial meltdowns in history, while "The China Syndrome" was in theaters. That's one hell of a coincidence.
>>534194707Yes, they are expanding. China reportedly plans to generate about 25% of its electricity from nuclear power, while the rest will come from solar, wind, pumped-storage power plants, batteries, and coal-fired standby power plants. This seems to be a similar tactic to the one pursued by the west. Russia wants to increase up to 80% of its electricity generation to nuclear power, but not to electrify much, leaving the rest of energy needed to natural gas and oil. However, one must not forget that nuclear technology is a very important export commodity for russia, so it makes sense for them to promote nuclear power either way. So neither of them is really aiming for it. But I think we'll see many shifts in electricity generation over the next few decades, and there will certainly be a country that tries out lightly regulated nuclear power for its entire energy supply. That would at least be an interesting case study. France certainly didn't convince me with their regulated try.
>>534194519>>534194688>All existing PJM nuclear plants, except two, are expected to more than cover their avoidable costs from energy and capacity market revenues in 2021, and all existing PJM nuclear plants are expected to more than cover their avoidable costs from energy and capacity market revenues in 2022.Literally the first fucking page>but they had a bad year in 2020Everyone did.
>>534174253>nuke plantsYou gotta use more neutral, safe sounding terms. This isn't good advertising
>>534195718 expected also theres an entire paragraph of pants failing to meet fucking running costs before thattheres 64 plants and in almost every year between 1 and 5 (in 20 20 all 64) are costing money......btw there have been like 1k nuclear plantsif 1 in 1 thousand cars was "sabataged" or anything else and it bankrupt your entire state forever because of itor 1 in 1 thousand planes destroied 40 airports every time they flew what insanitytheese are plants not even makeing a fucking profityou would have to be insane to be argueing for buying a car to go to a job that pays less than the gass you put into it and then saying " Its a juggernaught"
>>534195561I agree with your assessment. I don't know what the correct proportion of nuclear power to other sources is, I think that's for the market to decide. I just wish it were allowed to. I think there are major changes to the global economy incoming, and I suspect major political changes in America and Europe too. I hope they are for the better.
>>534195888Potential exclusion zones for breather's
>>534195956ohh and if you crash the car the repayment extouples and goes on for a few thousand years this is not to speak of nuclear's worst sins eventhis is a fairly nuclear biased discussion from my part
>>534174253Decades of oiljew money spend on making it expensive to build. Today West can’t build with concrete fast enough so even if you removed all red tape tomorrow it would still be one of the most expensive energy sources. Instead they were gaslighting us with renewables being the real future, but now renewables are finally better then nuclear and any other energy source, so prepare for another line of excuses and trying to finance new energy source to keep fossil fuels in use.
>>534195956How the fuck did we go from>none of them have ever been profitableTo>they aren't all always profitable?Those goalposts must be motorized.
>>534176121Renewables are basically the only geopolitically safe ways of generating electricity. We used hydrocarbons and our industry died in 2022 as a result when our hydrocarbon supplier decided to start invading towards us (Putin explicitly said he wanted every country east of Germany disarmed before he started the invasion). Uranium is sourced primarily from Africa and Kazakhstan, do you know where on the map is Kazakhstan located?
>>534196299>every accident is chernobylChernobyl is chernobyl and it wasn't even as bad as you're implying. It took less off the Ukranian life expectancy than the standard smog of any city. Fukushima was less deadly than the response, and Three Mile Island is reopening.
>>534197195>Renewables are basically the only geopolitically safe ways of generating electricityNot unless you fab your own semiconductors.
>>534174465>open up /pol/ after a 12 hour shift>"oh boy can't wait to forget about work">picrel is my office
>>534177296Isn't their use of coal and oil proportional to the size of their economy?Meanwhile their use of renewables is increasing.
>>534174253Real talk bro, because the world is not safe and they are easy targets in wars. The US is so forward thinking about resource protection and military forces that it constantly simulates wars like Amazon AB tests web layouts. The simple conclusion is that heavy dependence on Nuclear makes for extremely vulnerable targets in wars. Everyone knows where it is, and even the simplest weapons can devastate them. Distributed power systems like solar panels and wind are the most defensive in a war and the hardest to take out, especially if it's on individual houses or spread out over miles. That is probably the real reason the government was funding such efforts and subsidizing private solar. Because in a war, they would seize your property to continue operating. And now you know.
>>534198571Wind simply doesn't work. And the majority of solar panels are centralized in fields.
>>534198286To fabricate semiconductors you need a more/less stable economy society, so is better than oil regarding geopolitics.
>>534199170They're also really easy to backdoor. No one is worried that Russia isn't stable enough to sell them gas.
>>534174253politicsthat's all, just politicsit's a near cheat-code tier power source, but the vampires in charge just don't let us have itthis simple fact should make everyone go berserk on their ass, but people are still docile as a newborn puppyit really is over
>>534174810>muh competency crisisThe only people who say this are middle class plebs experiencing the multiculturalism "tragedy of the commons" effect on their strata of society.There are still lots of very highly competent people out there doing high quality work they just don't service the middle class anymore.
>>534175585>For about 140 years to be exact, but only as long as nuclear covers ~3% of the world's energy needs. If nuclear power were to be increased by an order of magnitude, it would only last a measly 14 years.This where the breeder reactor comes into play. It makes more fuel than it consumes. There used to be research into the "Monte Carlo" system, IE where a breeder reactor is controlled to produce exactly (almost) as much as it consumes. But the research was stopped on that just after Three Mile Island.
>>534200775
>>534178160>Russians and Chinese are even faster at the same pricepoint as worst korea, with russiand bulding them in roughly 6,5 years and chinks in 5.Russia? Had a nuclear disaster, so did the chinks. There's both of your "quick and cheap" countries.
