Why was China able to successfully pivot to state-capitalism but the USSR wasn't
>>534421517Deng Xiaoping was smarter. I think they deregulated slowly.
>>534421517In truth Pudong hasn't changed much since 2015, a 20 year old gap would have been more impressive to show in the picture.
>>534421517Gorbachev worked for the west.
>>534421517The USSR had the exact same mentality that you see from Russians on this board, basically no matter how bad it gets in there people just make excuses and start whataboutism. There is no feedback mechanism to improve things, the whole thing is just an elaborate cope where people explain to you that having to wait 5 years for a car based on a French license that is 15 years outdated for the 5% of the population that can afford it is not just not a bad thing but it is actually a good thing. You see Russians constantly doing these elaborate mental gymnastics to explain why making $300 a month is good actually. Or when they got their ships destroyed recently and they started coping immediately about how ships getting destroyed is actually a good thing because they don't have to maintain it anymore kek. Russians are like borderline schizo with their constant coping, their whole country could collapse and they would still try to convince you that Beverly Hills is poorer than some bum fuck oblast because they saw some video of drug addicts on YouTubeThe Chinese from what I've seen while having many aggressive nationalism and the web censored they are still pretty critical of the negative aspects of the economy and unlike Russians they generally seem to respect accomplishments unlike Russians who are just coping
>>534421521very tranny post>>534421517Because USSR was too dogmatic and retarded + didn't have anyone like deng xiaoping, maybe bukharin but he was killed
>>534421517china switced sides & received American capital during cold war
>>534421517ussr tried, but brezhnev (worst subhuman in soviet history btw) put a stop to it because it threatened political power of his friends in gosplan
>>534421524>it threatened political power of his friends in gosplanSeems like every regiment is like that here.
>>534421518>>534421522Didn't Tienanmen Square literally happen under Deng?
>>5344215171 word: ziggers
East Asian "communism" is more pragmatic and utilitarian, than a religious obsession like European communism. Similar to Vietnam, once they noticed it wasn't working and they were getting left behind, they quickly pivoted to a more reasonable middle ground solution that allowed them to retain single party authoritarian power while leveraging the economic gains of an underlying privatized system.The USSR couldn't do this due to a religious obsession with ideological purity. Asians never considered it holy just a means to an end. In some ways they were kind of deceiving the USSR and just wanted their material backing in independence wars before going their own way right after.
>>534421517russians are dogmatic and won't admit they were wrong until too latethe chinese learn from their mistakes and were able to pivot to what they noticed worked best.
>>534421528>once they noticed it wasn't working and they were getting left behind, they quickly pivoted to a more reasonable middle ground solution that allowed them to retain single party authoritarian power while leveraging the economic gains of an underlying privatized system.Funny thing, the first to do this was Lenin himself.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy0>The NEP represented an early form of market socialism to foster economic growth for the country, which had suffered severely since World War I and the Russian Civil War. The Soviet authorities partially revoked the complete nationalization of industry (established during the period of war communism of 1918 to 1921) and introduced a mixed economy which allowed private individuals to own small and medium-sized enterprises,[2][3]:47–48 while the state continued to control large industries, banks and foreign trade.[4]>The NEP represented a move away from full nationalization of certain parts of industries. Some kinds of foreign investments were expected by the Soviet Union under the NEP, in order to fund industrial and developmental projects with foreign exchange or technology requirements.>NEP economic reforms aimed to take a step back from central planning and allow the economy to become more independent. NEP labor reforms tied labor to productivity, incentivizing the reduction of costs and the redoubled efforts of labor. Labor unions became independent civic organizations.[3]:47–48 NEP reforms also opened up government positions to the most qualified workers. The NEP gave opportunities for the government to use engineers, specialists, and intelligentsia for cost accounting, equipment purchasing, efficiency procedures, railway construction, and industrial administration. A new class of "NEPmen" thrived. These private traders opened up urban firms hiring up to 20 workers.Then came Stalin and destroyed it.
>>534421528>>534421529this is nonsenseussr started with revisionism first, that's the main reason why chinks started bitchingussr and china were in different phases ussr started to revision shit after stalin while mao was still in powermao was doing stupid shit for almost two decades after stalin went, which made chinese establishment a loaded springthey collectively knew that things had to change and deng capitalized on thisussr meanwhile stalledafter khruschev got couped by br*zhnev, everything came to a halt when he and his friends got in power, ussr was in near parity with the west when he and his friends died, ussr was an oil dependent shithole spiraling out of control
>>534421517Even though the center of global trade shifted from the Atlantic to the Pacific, Russia continued to focus on Europe
>>534421517I don't get why people debate so much about this when it's so simple.They have a billion people country with a subservient culture. So they just offered their people as slave labor on a silver plate to rich foreign companies until they copied enough technology to make their own companies and got rich by selling cheap.It's that simple.
>>534421520Classic oneIn a few years you will be claiming Putin was Western agent,
>>534421526Yes. He cracked down on dissent and kept the government strong. USSR didn't and collapsed.
>>534421534He is. Everything that is going on is a complex plan of USA/Israel shadow government and they work along with him.
>>534421533Then why Brazil is still poor? Your country is LITERALLY made up with slaves.
>>534421530>Labor unions became independent civic organizationsStill runs into the same protectionist problem that Freemason ran unions and letting bureaucracy run labor causes. Stalin converted Bolshevism into what was essentially a 5 year plan mill used almost exclusively to expand industry in the third world, the gosplan and IMF weren't all so different except the USSR prioritized industry while the IMF prioritized development. Any time someone uses the word 'war economy' or 'war communism' they're referring to industrial expansion. I hate Stalinism too, but Lenin and Trotsky were delusional if they thought it would work in post-war Russia or the rest of Asia at the time.
>>534421517USSR lost its way with Trotsky's expulsion from the party
>>534421517The soviets were dogmatic, this is the 1st reason (they were under the jewish utopia spell)Secondly, China didnt had infinite oil so they had to compete or starve
>>534421520Biggest zigger copeDid Chernenko, Brezhnev and Andropov also worked for the west?
>>534421517>but the USSR wasn'tThe USSR fell apart because of radical Islam. Can't keep those 15 republics together when half of them are majority durka-durka allahu akbar.
>>534421525They put Gorbachev as head of the party because all the others on the political bureau (ussr top brass) were in their 70s and 80s. They stopped admiting anyone younger than Brezhnev 20 years before, Gorbachev was literally the only one left. They tried with Andropov and Chernenko and both died within 2 years of appointment.
>>534421517In the end, it all came down to the corruption the soviet union had and the sheer lack of vision. China unified and invested hard in education while absorving the industry of the world through cheap labor, while learning everything it could from these very industries. Russia never opened itself economically and even science and progress was heavy censored. You can't be a world power if you censor progress.
>>534421536RipWe came full circle bois. Pack it up. Russia in an existential war against the world yet russia is not losing despite Putin being a literal western asset.You heard it here 1st
>>534421517>Putin keeps choosing war. >Xi keeps choosing peace.Easy as.
>>534421771The soviet union fell apart because it was shit
>>534421517measuring success by number of buildings? I think it looked better in 1994
>>534421517Stalin fucked shit up real bad and after Khrushchev left the keys to a bunch of midwits, drunkards, and senile men.
>>534421517>picrel>country with 1.5 billion people managed to built 10 or 20 or whatever tall-buildings in 30 years>its over for the west, chinks have surpassed us
>>534421517The USSR made the mistake of thinking that the fall of the Iron Curtain and end of formal communism would allow them to be integrated into the EU and perhaps even NATO. Basically, they fell for American propaganda.China chose to pursue perestroika without glasnost.
>>534421517I bet they're not worried about planes being flown into their buildings.
>>534421521Behold, exhibit A>>534421520And exhibit B>>534421536
>>534421517China was chosen to de-industrialise the west and create a techo police state and be the model for the rest of the world.Once it's job is done it can be ruined.
>>534422264>It was because glowniggers partnered with them so they weren't a desolate wasteland the Russians could roll
>>534421521China actually censors its insane jingoists. Being a migger or ztard would probably get you shadowbanned on weibo.
>>534421521These Chinese are so nationalist that the CCP has to vanish people who are too loyal to the country.
the soviet union collapsed because they allowed multi party elections
>>534421517Chinese people do what they're told to do without question. They accept authoritarian regimes way easier than westeners these types of societies are weak to bad leadership but they got blessed by two consecutive good ones, they have to be absolutely sure the next leader is as good as xi
>>534421521> russia = USSRkill yourself better yet go back to siberia jew
>>534421517Too little too late desu, it stagnated badly due to the inflexibility of the party and the bureaucracy, it lacked the ability to have a feedback loop to pivot state planning. It was also captured by the geriatrics, who were out of touch.
>>534421517Because the USSR was made up of over a dozen countries and most of them wanted to leave.
>>534421517Russia actually believed in Socialism and Gorbachev wanted to build a Social Democracy because he was an Intelligent principled guy who was an inept at navigating interpersonal politics especially against a stagnant gerontocracy. The planned economy in Russia also worked by comparison.China was a Fanatically authoritarian shithole that had no reformist liberal elements in the government that weren't purged or shot and the economic system under Mao was a famine machine run on delusion and fantasy that is essentially what anti communists claim it is.tl;dr Deng wanted the atrocity machine to actually work and earned the support of the CCP whereas Gorbachev wanted to actually create a benevolent socialist state against the whims of the CPSU who wanted to keep the autocracy going
>>534421526yes and it was a smart thing to do from his point of view at least
>>534421531USSR actually had highest economic growth under Stalin (apart from 4 years of war), then Khruschev, Brezhnev was stagnation although ex-Soviet boomers liked it most. Then collapse under Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
>>534423284>USSR actually had highest economic growth under StalinHighest growth comes when you start from nothing.
>>534421526I'm like 90% sure tianamen square was a US CIA psyOps of paid agitators trying to topple the CCP.Probably one of their primitive first attempts.
>>534421517Lack of money and investments.China got lucky and had the then world super power USA for no real reason, export and gave all of it's industrial production capacity to China and thus they always had an enormous stable influx of capital, it's kind of impossible to go broke and fuck things up when your sugar daddy is always dumping trillions of USD into your economy annually.The USSR didn't have any such gift horse, they were a direct competitor to Europe and USA with the cold war so they ate lots of sanctions and other economic roadblocks. They also had a huge spanning empire and lots of dead weight 3rd world countries to carry on their shoulders and feed. Time and time again the biggest factor to successful capitalist states, is just if you have access to lots of free money. USA had slavery for a few hundred years, either directly with niggas in the cotton fields, or immigrants and wage slaves later on. After WW2 all of Europe's factories got btfo so America had a monopoly on the planet's production lines for a while too. They've been living on easy more for a long time and now that they've lost their economy and gave it to China you see their political sphere and economy is struggling and clawing at itself lately. It's not a coincidence, their luck spree dried up and all the free money is gone and now it's regressing back to an uncivilized 3rd world country. Same reason why all those random 3rd world capitalist states in South America and Africa fail. They just don't have any money or investments propping the system up. Capitalism revolves around exploitation. If they don't have access to slave labor and free money like oil wells they don't survive. It will be interesting to see what happens to the Gulf states in a few years, if Iran keeps strangling them and their American sugar daddy doesn't bail them out. They're probably going to go belly up and become Iranian and Chinese vassal states.
