where does the information even come from for disapproval rating polls. is it made up ? they cant read everyones minds. and there has to be millions of people that dont participate in these polls. when i hear that trumps approval rating is down. i wonder how they can even keep tabs on millions of people and where do you even participate in these polls ? is it like a voting booth? where you say you like or don't like the president? is it done online ? . never heard of such bullshit in my life. but the news thinks they know what they are talking about.
>>534490015You're clinically retarded. Your cult leader literally started a war that only benefits Israel, which has caused another increase in the cost of living in America for already struggling Americans in Trump’s economy, and you believe he has a positive approval rating?
this is not a pro or anti-trump postpolls are largely bullshit, they are usually created with an intended result in order to support a narrative. how they choose to source the data isn't always shared and more damning is that the weight the data and never publish how they weighted it. so who the fuck knows. there's also the fact that you can't poll the general population, it's not possible, all you can do is poll the sort of people who actually respond to polls, most people if you tried to poll them would hang up the phone.
Your cult leader was sitting in the oval office a few minutes ago in front of children talking about people being murdered [shot in the head and more] and children being sexually mutilated. You wonder?
>>534490015Individual polls mean almost nothing, but trends over time are significant
if you ask me, polling should be illegal around elections and be considered election interference. people need to learn to vote for who they actually like rather then vote "strategically" based on who they think everyone else is voting for. but the polls will never be illegal, because they don't want us voting on principle, they want to drive us to the voting booths through the lesser-of-two-evils motivation, which requires polls (oh no the worst bad guy is going to win, better vote for this lesser bad guy, instead of the guy i actually like, to stop worst bad guy) its stupid, and its bad for democracy.
>>534490348In this case, I believe these polls.Trump/MAGA fatigue is through the roof right now.
>>534490584how would you or i or anyone even know thatwe are all in bubbles, social media bubbles, and friend bubbles. ops bubble might have people with very different sentiment to the bubbles you or i are in. from my own bubbles trump was going to lose those elections for sure, because everyone i know hated him, everyone online was excited about kamala or hilary, but he won. despite everyone i know online and irl hating him. we see what the algorithms want to show us
>>534490753Blame the algorithms. If FB was still FRIENDS Timeline everyone would be holding their shitbag friends accountable for their shitty posts.
>>534490753Maybe because your cult leader hasn't done a single positive thing since he became president. I'm surprised you as a Canadian support Trump. It was Trump saying retarded shit like he's going to invade Canada which resulted in the right losing in Cananda and now the left-wing government is importing even more Indians. To be fair you must be an Indian yourself.
>>534490845i don't hold people accountable for their posts because i'm not a feminine hen pecker. people are entitled to opinions i don't agree with and i can still get along with them. i'm not into this social policing thing.
>>534490957i dont support trump. dont drag me into your direction-brained red team blue team sports politics. not everyone even has an opinion or cares about this. sometimes i agree with trump sometimes i disagree. you sound like an extremist to me.
Imagine dying and standing before the gates of heaven, and the guy on duty looks down his nose at you and says "Why did you post that weird cringe anti-christ porn? It didn't make anyone mad, it just makes you cringe and retarded""y-you lost, tranny"Then he crosses your name off the list and you fall in to hell.
>>534491061>>534491061And now we are starting into the post-MAGA period (already?) where the board will fill with rubes like this who never even supported Trump AT ALL, "where would you get that idea, I was always a non-partisan lolbertarian!"
>>534490753I can't speak for everyone, but most of my family and several friends voted for Trump. Most now regret it, and no one has anything good at all to say about him today.
>>534490957i will agree with you though that trump wanted carney to win. but the msm must have wanted it too because they went along with it. every trump tweet about canada bumped carney up in the polls because the boomers thought pollievre was trump-adjacent no matter how many times pierre spoke out against trump. absolutely insane. but the infinity indians was going to happen under pierre too, he even campaigned on fast tracking flights to india so they can bring their family members in faster. so its not like canada even has a real conservative party, unless you count maybe the ppc, who will never win, because everyone is stuck in voting against the guy they hate more instead of for the guy they like. the lesser of two evils bullshit driven by polls i complained about in an earlier post.>>534491289take meds. i'm one guy and /pol/ isn't a hive mind so fucking relax. you're hysterical
>>534491289>post-MAGA periodJust like pre-MIGA. You are the election tourist.
>>534490015>where does the information even come from for disapproval rating pollsThey're basically libtards publishing their own vibes and have been since 2015. They don't mean much. Take this retard: >>534490305, for instance. The economy is roaring under Trump, literally trillions in new investment, and everyone is far better off than they were under Biden (e.g. $5 gas and rampant inflation). However, he'll project the idea you're in a cult (remember, these people parroted "vote blue no matter who" and chanted "democracy is on the ballot" while supporting a presidential candidate they had no say in) while trying to convince you the only option you have is to agree with him.
>>534491354and thats a very small sample size of people to estimate a broad sweeping statistical trend from. so that leaves you with internet algorithm bubbles which is also faulty for estimating overall opinion trends. we dont know and cant know until an election how popular or unpopular someone actually is.
>>534491438>libtards publishing their own vibesLike miggers do in /ptg/?Everyone who isn't me is a blue hair tranny. Stay winning, awooo.**translators note: kill yourself, migger.
>>534491402Sorry, but I was here when mocking Boss Nigger's Presidency was fresh, and he had the temerity to wear tan suits and suggest white people might be a bit racist.Was a lot less curry-eating "Brits" and "Canadians" spouting ignorant opinions, too.Once it's fully popular to pretend you never bought into the Trump Ruse, no one will have ever fallen for it.
>>534490015They've never asked me.But I also disapprove of trump now.Abandon israel (the state), and come back to the real Israel (Christ).
>>534491438the economy is roaring for who? wealthy stock market investors? lets face it most people are disconnected from the stock market. they care about the price of gas, the price of food, the price of housing. now i havent seen the trends on that for america, not my country, maybe these things are noticeably better under trump. except for the price of gas due to the iran thing, which is surely raising the price of food. sure you can say we need to stop iran from getting nuclear weapons but thats a 40 plus year old narrative and a lot of people just dont care anymore.
>>534491616>I was here when mocking Boss Nigger's Presidency was fresSo a couple of years after me? Cool.
>>534491528>Like miggers do in /ptg/?You mean a thread specifically made for vibes by Trump supporters versus what it supposed to be objective statistics? Yeah, exactly like that and this should tell you all you need to know. Stay mad.
>>534491616>white people might be a bit racistwell why wouldn't they be when they're under constant attack in the media. they're sick and tired of being told they're the ones who are racist when most whites bend over backwards to appease the browns
>>534491462My mom fell for the "prices will be cheaper on day 1" campaign promise. Now she absolutely hates Trump lol.
>>534491830prices weren't going to be any better under kamala then they were under biden. the iranian situation probably wouldn't be any better either. if you think your vote actually matter you're a bit naive. so calm down, the deep state is and always has been in control. the elections are so you push a paper into a box rather than revolt.
>>534491672>the economy is roaring for who?Everyone except poorfag underclass leeches. >lets face it most people are disconnected from the stock marketNot my problem. If you're too dumb to put money into even the most generic premade portfolio imaginable (which will take you 5 mins online) you're of no concern to me. >price of gas, the price of foodGas is still cheaper under Trump than it was Biden and inflation is way lower, retard. Lol. You're dumb.
>>534491699Stop trying to assert "I was here first" dominance over people, you lying curry stained monkey. I ain't buying it. Nor am I buying white Canadians on the Trump Train.All I asserted was that over the next three years, I'll be subjected to a bunch of disingenuous "I was never a Trump Guy" lies.I miss when this board wasn't a Jam-boy-ree.
>>534492053>Stop trying to assert "I was here first" dominance over peopleYou mean like the "i was here for obongo" guy?Stay mad you stupid nigger retard. You worship the anti-christ and God is going to kill you. I will watch it happen.
He's loosing the people who comment on news articles on Facebook. That's a VERY big tell.
>>534492004>prices weren't going to be any better under kamala then they were under biden. the iranian situation probably wouldn't be any better either.Oh I totally agree....except for this Iran mess. It wasn't necessary and we already had a good "deal" in place before Trump tore it up. Now he's seeking the same, or similar, deal.
>>534492016>Everyone except poorfag underclass leeches.so, most people? the middle class has been in decline for decades. most people live paycheque to paycheque>not my problemok but thats not what this discussion is about, its about broad trends in public opinionand dont call me a retard because i didnt know the price of gas is still cheaper under trump. i said i didnt know the prices, its because im not an american, i know the prices in canada because thats where i live and buy things. but does the general public in america understand that gas prices are better? the tv is telling them that gas prices are up because iran. they might blame trump for iran, even though kamala would have done the same or worse, and they probably cant remember the prices 2 months ago let alone 2 years
>>534492241
>>534492016>The economy is better under Trump now.In no measurable, meaningful way have things improved in the last year and a half, economically.And every time it even appears that things will cool to the tiniest improvement, we get new bullshit tariffs or Operation Epstein Fury.The average gas price was $3.20 when Biden was retired. People voted Trump because that was seen as too high. Diesel is higher than it has ever been, and Diesel is what determines costs on everything on store shelves.
>>534492268Gas peaked at just above $5 a gallon in the second week of June in 2022, on news of Putin's invasion. The average price over the year of 2022 was $4 a gallon. We are currently at $4.30 and trending upwards.
>>534492268>so, most people?Yes, the economy is better for most people. >ok but thats not what this discussion is aboutNo it's not. It's about whether or not cost of living has improved under Trump. Is gas cheaper? Yep. Is inflation down? Yep. Are your savings going up? Most definitely. >and dont call me a retard because i didnt know the price of gas is still cheaper under trumpYou're retarded.
MAGA president raising prices on everything so much MAGA can't even afford to RENT a liberal, nevermind OWN one.Ya'll failed.
>>534492319You might think this was a call for a land invasion of Iran, if you were a 70 IQ woman-hating shithead. This is the stance of the U.S. government since the late 1950's.
>>534492667well you're a leaf, and according to this guy, an actual burger >>534492625, gas prices on average are higher at the moment under trump then they were under biden. and its not just are prices better, its are prices better enough that the average person is feeling it and noticing it? inflation may be less but its not like prices came down is it, they just went up less fast, did wages go up to compensate? can normal regular people FEEL how much better the economy is under trump, do they NOTICE how much better it is?
>>534492753we don't know what it is, other than evidence that whats happening now under trump, could have easily happened under kamala, or worse. the idea that kamala would never is just naive, i dont think its even the presidents decision, president is a figurehead.
>>534492901On the positive side, the tariff rebates are being issued to the retailers who marked up prices to compensate for them. Because that's how fairness works under Trump.
>>534492998>we don't know what it isIt is the same vaguely threatening "don't mess with Greatest Ally or we might do something" rhetoric we've used for the last almost 70 years."We retain all options" is our default stance anytime anyone we don't like does something objectionable.
>>534493174democrat or republican in power doesn't ever seem to stop you bombing the shit out of the middle east. seems to be the default stance
>>534492901>according to this guy, an actual burger >>534492625 #, gas prices on average are higherHe's wrong, lol. The national average hit $5 under Biden and under Trump it's $4.48. Mind you, a big chunk of the cost under Trump is being caused by increased taxes imposed in states like California and New York (e.g. California raised it's fuel tax above 70 cents).You're retarded.
>>534490015Always has been (made up).
>>534493274
Reminder that even Dubya and Shadow-President Cheney, at their most Cowboy, pressured Bibi to keep his guns in his holsters and stay out of our Middle East dust-ups.Because even they were smart enough to realize the Israeli ambitions towards escalation.
>>534493551well maybe iran is actually close to a nuke nowi know they've been saying that over 40 years but eventually it was going to actually be true. maybe it was true now. we can't know
>>534493521What's that supposed to prove, retard? Gas prices are lower under Trump than they were under Biden.
>>534493680You're an idiot who knows fuck all about anything. Just shut the fuck up.
>>534490305>war that only benefits IsraeNo the billionaire epstein class in the US is making billions too. All the oil companies are making record profits off this shit. Defense contractors and no-bid suppliers like Don & Erics drone company are making tens of millions. Inside traders and speculators are making billions. War is the most efficient means of extracting money from the working class and putting it into the hands of the oligarchy.
>>534490015You have a previously-dormant AGGRESSIVE pancreatic cancer. It’ll be fully awake by mid-summer. Go to the doctor asap.
>>534490753At the end o the day you’re still a fat virgin and no one likes you lmao
>>534493753its a chart that shows the average price per gallong for each year from the us energy information administration. indeed trumps first term shows a sustained dip in prices. and bidens term showed a peak of $4.5 adjusted for inflation of $4 unadjusted as the yearly average (not $5 as you claimed) before declining again towards trumps first term prices. but now prices are $4.5 matching the peak average year under biden. so this idea that prices are so much cheaper for gas under trump than biden, the data doesnt reveal that.>>534493782you're a zesty nigger aren't you, just calm down buddy
>>534493680There are already 5 nuclear powers in Iran's proximity. 2 of which have been hostile to them for decades. They'd be stupid not to want their own deterrent. >But their Death To rhetoric.Is the same talk every country that feels under imminent threat uses. We used to exchange it with Russia, North Korea was on the cusp of lighting up South Korea (and the West Coast), then they get a deterrent, feel safe and calm the fuck down.Nuclear Iran is a red line for Israel because the leadership has plans to expend the borders into Shia territory, and the Ayatollah is the Shia Pope. Iran getting nukes simply forces Israel to no more than starving out the Gazans.
>>534494041>not $5 as you claimedThe chart is wrong, retard. Go ahead and Google if it hit $5 under Biden. Holy fuck you're a dumb one, lol.
>>534494032another zesty lil nigger>>534494116iran has a retard government of cult religious extremists, like israel, i didnt want israel having a nuke either. yet another retard desert sand death cult wielding nukes is shitty. and once iran has nukes several other arab countries will want nukes. that might not end well, you cant count on rational behaviour. there were several times during the cold war when nukes were ordered to be fired but some based lad on the scene refused to push the button, but it got close.
>>534494032Lol
>>534494233it's a chart for yearly average, do you understand that? a 2 week flash to $5 is not the discussion here.
>>534494233That chart shows the AVERAGE for an entire year, it doesn't reflect the week it hit $5.11Just like the 2026 average is $3.40 at this point, but it doesn't reflect this week's $4.27.A point should be made that Biden didn't choose to have Russia invade Ukraine and spike GLOBAL fuel prices.Trump absolutely chose this Excursion with Israel to disrupt world trade and send them spiraling up.
>>534494116>I'm going to argue that a country that routinely chants "DEATH TO AMERICA" and has targeted American assets for almost half a century should have nuclear weaponsLol, you guys are so fucking dumb.
>>534494310>iran has a retard government of cult religious extremists, like israelHave you looked at the Christians willing to sacrifice all for Greatest Ally lately? Blowing up schoolgirls seems a BIT extreme in the cause of preserving the stage for the End Times, doesn't it?
>>534494436>That chart shows the AVERAGE for an entire yearSo? Gas prices are still lower under Trump than they were under Biden, fuckwit. >JUST ZOOM IN HERE AND ZOOM OUT HERE AND YOU'LL SEELol, fuck off. >Biden didn't choose to have Russia invade Ukraine andHe chose to endorse green initiatives that enriched Russia, much of which went towards its military, and gave them more geopolitical leverage. You're a moron.
>>534494540yeah and?i agree with you but i dont see how this refutes my argument>>534494624gas prices under trump are currently matching the highest yearly average under biden. facts. its in the chart
>>534494476>and has targeted American assets for almost half a centuryThey took embassy hostages in retaliation for the US taking their Prime Minister hostage and installing a puppet dictator. And unlike their Prime Minister, the hostages were released unharmed.You seem to be largely confusing them with Al Qaeda/ISIL which is Sunni extremism, funded by Second Greatest Ally. Generally the Iranians keep up spy vs spy with Greatest Ally, we only get stung when we get involved directly in that ongoing bullshit.Conveniently you will call Israeli murders and assassinations and bombs "counter-terrorism". But it's exactly the same shit. Except the Israelis are doing it to consolidate territorial gains, Iran isn't trying to gain Israeli land.
why is nuance so impossible for americans? either they are 100% for trump or 100% against trump. every single time. rational discussion is impossible.
>>534494694>gas prices under trump are currently matching the highest yearly average under bidenThat's not how averages work, dumbass. Also, California dramatically increased its energy taxes. You're retarded.
>>534494787>IRAN A GOOD BOY, DINDU NUFFIN!Fuck off, Mohammed. If you don't like living in the US move back to whichever Arab shithole your family crawled out of.
>>534494817>Also, California dramatically increased its energy taxes.but don't you understand? the troons are seething! DO SOMETHING MAGAPEDES!!!!!!!!!
>>534494624>He chose to endorse green initiatives that enriched RussiaTHAT is your pretext for Joe being the cause of Russian aggression? LMAO. That's some pretty thin justification.Generally prospering countries are MORE peaceful. Putin was at several points invited to share in peaceful cooperation with Urop, but his ambitions have always been getting the Soviet Band back together. That has nothing whatsoever to do with Joe.You're someone who forms conclusions then tries to wheedle "evidence" to support them.You're simply wrong.
>>534494817the current price you said is $4.50the average highest price year under biden was $4.50 (the other years hovered around $3) so what part of what i said was incorrect?the chart is here if you need to look at it again >>534493521maybe just admit i'm right instead of doubling down on cognitive dissonance? maybe develop some nuance? you can be pro trump without being delusional
>>534494888>IRAN A GOOD BOYWas never said.Iran and Israel have been playing this game for ages. They are both more than willing to murder and destroy with little concern for civilians.Taking sides in it and now even participating is a CHOICE.
>>534494924You depended on Russia for 100% of your natural gas up until 2022. Tell me, have any of your politicians been held to account for allowing such a dependency that enriched a hostile state with a history of invading you? Was financing Russia's military build up while your cost of living rose worth being able to pretend you were greening your economy? Lol.
>>534490015That picture is exactly what MIGA retards are worshipping, an illusion completely disconnected from reality.
>>534495014>Generally prospering countries are MORE peacefulThat's the lie libtards sold in the 2000s, retard. Did it end up happening or did Russia start a major European war while China increased its sphere of influence while cracking down like its the 80s all over again? Speaking of China, why do you care so much about Muslims in the Middle East and say nothing about the half a million China has detained? Lol.
>>534495182It's not really much different than the US enriching it's geopolitical rival China with lopsided trade, simply to keep our billionaires full of riches.Wish you lots of luck with your own trade bargains with China.
>>534490015Polls are totally make believe with no basis in reality. >muh scienceBullshit. A lie.
>>534495182>Tell me, have any of your politicians been held to account for allowing such a dependency that enriched a hostile state with a history of invading you?nopethey got promotions instead>Was financing Russia's military build up while your cost of living rose worth being able to pretend you were greening your economy? Lol.absolutely not, but finnish boomers (who have all the money and assets of course) are all in agreement that finland can suffer a lot if it means russia crumblesand in the next elections the leftoids are going to take back government and speedrun this shit into the groundbasically we are fucking fucked
>>534495028>maybe just admit i'm rightIt's obvious you knew nothing about this and can't read a graph, retard. Fuck you're dumb. I'll bet you think Iran is winning too.
>>534495014ukraine as part of nato was always a red line for russia, for obvious reasons related to the geographic terrain. flirting with ukraine joining nato was obviously going to trigger russia. and then there's the maiden protests and suspected cia involvement. eventually you get a ukraine president that the russian speaking east of ukraine felt their vote didnt support and they tried to separate, which russia encouraged. then a ukraine civil war where one side was begging putin to intervene (stupid, but they did). and now we have this war where a million plus men are dead on each side as they throw themselves into a meatgrinder in a stalemate. for what? the russian speaking land that wanted to seperate anyways? and only a 12% volunteer rate now, ukraines scooping innocent men off the street and forcing them into a war they dont believe was worth volunteering for. and all because we couldn't tell ukraine to stay the fuck out of nato, all because we couldnt help but influence their politics to drive them westward? play stupid games win stupid prizes.and no im not pro-russian, i'm nuanced. none of this is as simple as either side wants to admit but both sides are retards and failures. russia hasnt won this war either, they've lost a lot and for what, pyrrhic victory at best.
>>534495341>That's the lie libtards sold in the 2000sThat's the story NIXON sold back in the day.And every President since. Except Trump, who's global policy seems to revolve around whoever is bribing him the most and generally sucking Russian dick.Your angry typing doesn't conceal the fact that you are an ahistorical dumbass.
>>534495367>WHADABOUTFuck off, it. >>534495403That guy above literally parroted the "countries become nicer as long as we give them more money and geopolitical control" line a few posts ago, lol.
>>534495467so you're going to double down on the cognitive dissonance then. graph says gas peaked one year under biden with an average of $4.50. thats what the graph says, even though you refuse to see it because you're an extremist retard that cannot accept any nuance. which matches the current todays price of gas now under trump. thats all im saying.
>>534495523>>534495531You're both really fucking stupid. You should really leave the geopolitical discussions to people who are employed and have savings.
>>534495692you're an extremist retard incapable of nuance who falls back on adhoms when he's losing an argument.
>>534495523>ukraine as part of nato was always a red line for russia, for obvious reasons related to the geographic terrainWe have never had any lack of access to Russia, nor Russia to Europe. Ukraine joining a defensive alliance was provocation to Putin simply because he's reestablished the Russian policy of military Imperialism and reversing the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. by force.Trying to paint the Russians as victims of NATO aggression means that this conversation is just about over. NATO has never attacked Russia or any of the old Soviet satellite nations.
>>534495654>cognitive dissonanceThat term doesn't mean what you think it means, retard.>graph says gas peaked one year under biden with an average of $4.50Gas prices were higher under Biden than they are under Trump. Cherry picking data from a random graph you can't read properly to argue something you admittedly knew nothing about 5 minutes ago demonstrates you're a moron.
>>534490015is this how drumpf looked like when he raped the little girls?
>>534490015
I just can't believe people are defending this shit show. This is not better. It's going to get a whole lot worse. Would another democratic presidency have been bad? Yes. Unquestionably. Horrible. Has Trump gone off the fucking rails, betrayed his supporters, put Israel first, and face fucked America? Yes. Like how is that even up for debate at this point?
>>534495754>you're an extremist retard incapable of nuance who falls back on adhoms when he's losing an argumentI won the argument with my first response. All that remains is forcing you to accept a truth you already know deep down--youre a moron.
>>534495768russia is a very paranoid country. ukraine is a very flat land with a clear runway to moscow and no geographic barriers. thats why ukraine is supposed to be a buffer. ukraine joining nato puts nato too close to moscow for russias comfort. you cant expect paranoid russia to feel safe about that. they reacted in a predictable way to what they were obviously going to perceive as provocation. fuck off with your extremist language about "painting russia as victims of nato aggression" because thats not at all what im doing. im nuanced. im not taking an extremist 100% position for one side like you are. thats why a rational conversation with you is impossible.>>534495805the chart is from the us government and shows average fuel prices for each year. its not hard to read. but you cant read it because of cognitive dissonance, because the chart proves you wrong and you cant handle that, you're incapable of reading it. im not taking an extremist 100% position for one side like you are. thats why a rational conversation with you is impossible.
>>534495692here's your last one.
>>534495028>you can be pro trump without being delusionalIm not entirely sure about that anymore
>>534496170>russia is a very paranoid country.Paranoia is a mental illness, not an excuse for invading other countries. Ukraine's national identity isn't "Russia's Buffer", and they had very good reason to seek NATO and even EU membership given Russia's history of taking back territory they felt was "theirs".
>>534496334it's not about excuses its about being realistic. its not about whats right or wrong or whats justified or whats not. its about understanding what the other sides position is and how they're going to react because of it. russias paranoid reaction was predictable and avoidable. it wasnt worth the cost of poking the bear just to fold stupid little ukraine into nato, that was foolish.
And Putin didn't invade Ukraine over paranoia; he's made it clear his ambition is to restore the U.S.S.R., and Ukraine forging alliances with the rest of Europe would block that ambition.Every other justification (and he's spit out quite a few) is just Neocon-style wheedling.
>>534496502>its not about whats right or wrongAbsorbing independent States into your Empire by military force sure seems wrong? By your strained logic, it's dandy to do military "excursions" into other nations simply because you feel you are able to?
>>534496502Are we about to pretend that this grab of Ukraine land was Putin's first belligerent grab, instead of just his most recent land-grab?Grabblers gonna grab. Each successful grabble just encourages the next one. That's what Ukraine saw.
>>534496506he had decades to invade ukraine. so why now? according to you his only reason was he's crazy and evil, trying to restore the ussr, thats a bit simplistic. >>534496596stop being a fucking retard. enough emotional language and right and wrong nonsense. this isnt a school playground, this isnt about whats fair and whats not. millions of human lives have been wasted in this gay little war for your stupid little ideals about whats right and wrong.
>>534496703then go volunteer, they'll accept you.they only have a 12% volunteer rate because 88% of ukrainian recruits right now didn't feel this was worth volunteering for. do you even understand that? men are being sent to their death for this.
>>534496705>enough emotional languageThat's you, with the paranoia and "poking the bear". You are employing Feels and trauma because logic has completely failed you.You are claiming Russia keeps moving it's borders out of feelings of paranoia and stress.When in fact they are following a plan of Soviet recovery that Putin has NOT been shy of talking about publicly.
>>534490015>is it made up ?Nigger can't you tell differentiate numbers? Higher prices don't bode well with the learned.
>>534496170>the chart is from the us government and shows average fuel prices for each yearAnd gas prices were higher under Biden than they have been under Trump you complete and total retard. >cognitive dissonanceYou don't know what that term means, lol.
>>534496785>then go volunteer, they'll accept you.Again with the crybaby shit. Are you through debating like an adult I take it?
>>534490015The left hate Trump, the center hates Trump, and the far right hates Trump. The only people that don't hate Trump at this point are a few million people that only know what Mossad tells them via Fox news. If anything the approval rating is too damn high. We all live in our own bubbles, but they at least remain tethered to reality for the most part. The MAGA bubble is something else. It's a schizophrenic jewish hallucination with no interest in dealing in the real world.
>>534496855don't tell me what i'm claiming, because you are clearly too direction brained to even comprehend my level of nuance. you are not capable of understanding what i'm saying.>>534496895i'm through debating you, because you can't debate me, because you can't even understand me. you can only understand extremism, you are a man without any capacity for nuance>>534496882the price currently is $4.50the average price during bidens worse year was $4.50to not understand this, when its painted clear as day on a chart from a us government department, because it doesnt validate your perspective, is cognitive dissonance.frankly 95% of the users on this board are beneath me and lack the nuance to debate me or even to understand me. just a bunch of direction brained retards
>>534496882YES, for a brief period when the world thought WW3 might be imminent, global oil speculation drove American gas prices higher (under Biden) than they had ever risen to before.NOW, they are escalating to levels not seen since then, because Trump's Great Israeli Adventure has stoppered up one of the pivotal global trade routes, and now he's stuck like Winnie the Pooh in the rabbit's den. And each week now the price of gas goes higher, diesel is already at a record. It went up another 27 cents in just this last week!We all know and understand the difference between market reaction to Russian belligerence and ongoing market reaction to Trump belligerence.
>>534497119>don't tell me what i'm claimingI'm just quoting your own posting back at you fren. Don't start with the emotional bitch talk, then accuse me of it.
>>534497173>>534496882you two are both extremist retards lacking any nuance. >>534497260no you're strawmanning me and you're too dumb to even know thats what you're doing. as dumb as the gas prices guy you're arguing with
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony sides blessing, but because, I am enlightened by my own nuance.
>>534497320>no you're strawmanning me>StrawmanningNo, I am pointing to your very own arguments in this thread. You're conflating geopolitical strategies with emotional kneejerking. Right now the USA has the leadership making geopolitical decisions based on the woman-feelings of Trump, not the American people as a whole. Putin makes calculations. Invading Ukraine was purely a calculation; it being protected by NATO closed his window of opportunity to reclaim it through assassination or invasion, two things he has a considerable history of.
>>534497119>the price currently is $4.50>the average price You're comparing a spot price with an average price you fucking imbecile. How do you not see that this isn't a proper comparison? Biden's peak spot price is way higher than what we've seen under Trump! Biden's average prices are higher than Trump's average prices. Fuck you're dumb >cognitive dissonanceThat's not what cognitive dissonance is you fucking retard. Cognitive dissonance is when you hold onto to two perspectives that are mutually exclusive. Fuck you're dumb.>frankly 95% of the users on this board are beneath meDunning-Kruger, lol.
>>534497320>extremistDisagreeing with a retard who can't understand a graph while he pretends he's an expert one something he didn't know about 5 mins ago makes me an extremist? LolDunning-Kruger.
>>534497606The 2022 price is what Vladimir Putin chose to inflict on the oil markets.The rising 2026 price is what Donald J Trump chose to inflict on the oil markets.We can agree on that much right?And when it surpasses $5.11 cents during the peak Summer demand, what exactly will your position be then? Because even at this moment it is a VERY thin defense of Trump's incoherent foreign policies.
>>534497512>>534497606i'm just laughing at you two retards right now. you're both extremists from either side. one guy who always 100% is in favour of trump, and the other guy 100% always in favour of current thing ukraine.i dont actually give a fuck if ukrainian oligarchs or russian oligarchs sit on the iron throne of ukraine. just let russia have the east of ukraine, its not like they're going to give it back anyways, lets spare another million lives thrown in the meatgrinder over this nonsense.and as to the gas prices. yes i am comparing todays spot price to a yearly average under biden. and so is the average american right now in their current sentiment regarding gas prices, which feel as high now as they were under biden, because they are currently as high as bidens worst yearly average.you're both wrong and dumb and i am right and smart and thats that. learn to nuance if you want to ascend to my level, and stop picking sides. both sides are wrong some of the time, you have to learn to accept that
>>534491616Nobody cared about the tan suit here, nigger. Especially not during the Dirty Black Summer. You're an /r/The_Donald invader.
>>534497789>Vladimir Putin choseFuck off, retard. Western countries becoming dependant on Russian energy in the name of greening their economies enabled the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Trump warned them about this around 2018 and they literally laughed. Well, they're not laughing now.
>>534497858>tl;drYou're retarded. Simple as.
is there anything more satisfying on /pol/ than nuance-posting hard enough to get both sides of extremist shill fighting you while they also fight each other? its sublime.
>>534497893Everything Obama said or did was thoroughly shat upon, from "guns and churches" to tan suits to the Fox-provoke OUTRAGE that he dare assassinate the noble American citizen in pic related WITHOUT A HECKIN TRIAL omgz!"The occasional retard STILL whinges about Obama dropping a hellfire on this clown.
>>534497930>Buying gas from his store PROVOKED him into territorial invasion!1!You can keep spitting this stupid shit out, it's still stupid shit.And Trump's "diplomacy" has never once succeeded.
>>534498071Nobody on this board cared about the suit. The gentle giant had just been lynched, and niggers were burning Ferguson to the ground.
>>534498071lol, fucking libtards. nobody under 50 watches fox news. you're tilting at windmills and regurgitating talking point grievances
>>534498227We are talking about 4chan 2008, Fox News was far more important than your gay Jewish podcaster of choice.
>>534498227Even Donald was appearing to report on his "Ongoing Birth Certificate Investigashuns" on Fox back then.
>>534498162a dependence on russian oil put europe in a position of weakness against russia. but since you lack nuance you can't understand that and must use this strawman instead.
>>534498375no, it wasn'tdo you want me to start accusing you of regurgitating cnn talking points? because i could. for every man whining about obamas tan suit there were 1000 libtards whining about how allegedly everyone is whining about the tan suit. obnoxious
>>534498478Russian oil was conveniently RIGHT THERE and cheap, it was never going to destroy Europe, the oil market is global in any case. Nor did it give Putin Casus Belli to start snatching up nations that voluntarily broke with Russia. You claiming it did on "nuance" doesn't make it so.Your intent to paint Putin as this battered wife who had no recourse but to stab him 57 times is growing MIGHTY suspicious.
>>534491438>THEY ARE PUSHING THE VIBES SAAAR>PLEEEEZE SAAAAR
>>534498575I don't have cable television. I don't watch CNN. for every man whining about Sydney's jeans there were 1000 MIGAs whining about how allegedly Libruls were whining about the jeans.
>>534498692there you go with the extremism again, and assuming everyone else is as extremist as you. makes it impossible to have a rational discussion.europe grew dependent on russian oil. germany took down its nuclear plants. you cant rebuild that overnight. you cant wean yourself off russian oil in a couple years. the sanctions hit and russia was still selling oil to europe, often through india as a middleman, where did that money go? into russias war machine. could europe afford to go too hard on russia while dependent on russian oil? no. its not the reason putin invaded ukraine, but it was one of the reasons. this isnt me taking putins side either, i think the war is retarded for both sides and they're both retards.
>lol
>>534498843the left is a hivemind, that's how you're regurgitating cnn talking points without having watched cnn. you just get the talking points trickled down
>>534490015>where does the information even come from for approval rating polls. is it made up ? they cant read everyones minds. and there has to be millions of people that dont participate in these polls. when i hear that trumps approval rating is up. i wonder how they can even keep tabs on millions of people and where do you even participate in these polls ? is it like a voting booth? where you say you like or don't like the president? is it done online ? . never heard of such bullshit in my life. but the news thinks they know what they are talking about.got me, I have no idea where they pull any of this shit from, pretty ubiquitously stated he's a retard and I live in west virginia
>>534498765Trump was purely elected because:1. Groceries were too expensive2. Gasoline was still to high (at $3.30)3. Warmongering Dems were going to drag us into warz for Israel (lol?);4. America's browning was upsetting white miggers.Funny how that all worked out.
>>534490305>I HAVE AN OPINION!!!!!@@@@@@@!@
>>534499034CNN isn't even owned by Liberals anymore, and hasn't for a while, from what I've read. You are the one purely strawmanning at this point.Go ahead and google Strawman and you'll see I am correct in my useage. no one under the age of 65 watches cable news. Particularly since that faker Tucker started his independent grift.
At this point I feel it's pretty evident the only people left supporting Trump wholeheartedly are /ptg/, facebook boomers and bot farms now.
>>534499057of course the browning doesn't upset you, because you're a self-hating white >>534499176all of msm is liberal. you are the establishment. trump is a bone thrown to the right so they wouldn't give up on voooting
>>534490015>where does the information even come from for disapproval rating polls. is it made up ?Its usually not made up. But most of the polls seem to fall into two categories:opinion piece where someone polls their business and family/friendsThird party poll with statistically significant valuesAnd even then it also depends on who you poll and even then an individual poll isnt worth much more than a rage bait headline. Its when all the polls start to come together and you see overall trends is when its indicative of how people generally feel. Any poll or article on a poll worth its salt will include their sources.
>>534499208AND sucking off Putin as a victim of circumstance, and doing the CHINA GREAT shit./pol/ is a schizo mess post-tourism.Apparently the realization that MAGA was in fact MIGA has broken a lot of brains.
>>534490547We better vote the mentwlly ill communist assassination party next time.
>>534499269>I HAVE BECOME THE SCREECHING BLUE-HAIRED WOMAN!I am laffin now!
>>534499370I think with everything going on, there's a pretty compelling point to go even harder in on the seperation of church and state because evangelicalism is just too destructive of a belief apparently.
>>534491354Hi reddi_t!
>>534499396>"voting" still exists as some "legitimate option to change literally anything" to himit's a choice between pepsi in a gay pride can or a murican flag cannothing morepeople who still fool themselves into believing it has any more significance than that are fools
>>534499346they might include their sources but they never include their weights. its never a clean survey, did you know that? thats not how its done, some responses are weighted more than others, proprietary formula, to avoid inaccurate results, allegedly. the premise is if the sources are leaning too far right or left of the general population then you weight the results from the other side by some amount to get a more accurate trend of the population. its hocus pocus. reading the tea leaves. basically guessing. and usually what they're actually seeking is to tilt the results as a form of consensus cracking, they want to manipulate opinion. as to the multiple polls coming together thats about as worthless as reading multiple newspapers, somehow they always agree with each other, because its a big club. in the end you can only poll the kind of people that answer polls. average people hang up on polls. you can only poll the poll takers mentality. and then you weight it to get the answer you want.
>>534490584No worries, gerrymandering will make sure the country stays the course
>>534499538Someone will post a fedora tip at you, but the Citizens United ruling will be seen in history books as the final straw that broke the Republic's back, America was always a performatively Christian Fundamentalist larp putting on airs of "religious freedom"Everyone is a Christian with VALUES until the underage victims go to authorities.
>>534499370do you ever stop talking in leftoid extremist talking points? nothing you've said is original, all pure leftoid hivemind shit. think for yourself for once. you're boring
>>534499569People who think voting doesn't matter are contrarian retards.
>>534499848contrarian retards are right about everything
>>534499846Honest to God, just STOP projecting at me.You have to be able to realize how badly you are doing this at this point.I have zero interest in arguing against your FEELS and sympathies for autocrats.
>>534499848>both parties run by the exact same people, so you're never changing the actual power structure at allthey allow independents in the debates, right, there were independents in the last presidential Trump-Harris debateright
>>534499949No, you're immature idiots who want to appear smart on the internet.
>>534499950i don't have any sympathies for autocratsbut you are pic related >>534499034everything you say is the same shit every other leftoid says. and then you keep making up shit i never said so you can fit me into some strawman. like this shit about me sucking off autocrat cock or whatever. you think im mad about obamas tan suit. you think im defending putins invasion of ukraine. you probably think i love israel or whatever too.>>534500036doesn't matter, still right
>>534500147>don't have any sympathies for autocratsThen stop making excuses and rationales for them.>L-leftoid! You Leftoid!This isn't the clever argument you are confusing it for, it's baby-talk. Stop being a baby.
>>534499987>Hey guys, voting for the president that moved the Overton window against political correctness, immigration, and changes tge entire world, is the same as voting for a Democrat who completely opens the border, ends America, and makes globalism win huuurrr dee durrr.
>>534500254stop being a leftoid>rationalesyes its called understanding. me saying europes dependence on russian oil was one of many reasons russia felt emboldened to invade ukraine is nuance. its not justifying the invasion, its explaining it. stop being an extremist
>>534500296>Hey guys, voting for the people that created the left that own the president that moved the Overton window against political correctnesshmnypost.com/2026/01/12/us-news/trump-to-antisemites-youre-not-welcome-in-maga/of course you're not allowed to say anything against them, or you get kicked out of MAGA apparently
>>534500417Holy schizophrenia. Bye.
>>534500296It's great, now we are censored by Elon and the Anti-Semitism Czar, swell!wtf is "changes to the entire world" even supposed to mean? Are you congratulating Trump on Making China and Israel greater than ever before?>ending AmericaOh you are just being a hyperbolic nitwit, nm.>Globalization WinI don't think a President taking $3 BILLION dollars in foreign bribes is a repudiation of globalism?
>>534500504>he can't handle the truth
>>534500296and then when a democrat president comes to power again it will all be undone. we saw it before. biden replaced trump and woke was back instantly. because its needs to be, so that we keep voting one side or the other, lesser of two evils. have to voooote. nothing ever changes but the political football gets tossed back and forth and each side gets their token accomplishments so they keep voting while the other side gets their token offenses so they keep voting against. its all to keep you invested in the delusion of democracy, so you think your little paper ballot in the box means you dont have to revolt. fooled again
>>534500415>me saying europes dependence on russian oil was one of many reasons russia felt emboldened to invade ukraineIs objectively incorrect, just by following the pattern of Putin's creeping acquisition of old Soviet territory. Did selling oil on the global market fund his military? Of course. But he was always going to sell oil even if just to China. It's not the cause of Russian aggression in the slightest as you suggest.
>>534498162>>Buying gas from his store PROVOKED him into territorial invasion!1!Who said "provoked", retard. The word was "enabled". >>534498478Shut up, fag.
>>534500642See:>>534500296
>>534500642Unlike Trump, Biden and Obama can actually get legislation put into law through Congress.Trump's lickspittle Johnson can't put anything into law, so Trump rules by napkin scribbled pronouncements that mean nothing long-term.Only Uncle Mitch's pro-corporate SCOTUS are moving the bar (towards corporate ascendance).
>>534500691its not just russia selling oil, its that europes actions are restricted because they cant afford being fully cut off russias oil. do you not understand how dependence on someone restricts your actions against them? of course not, because you're an extremist with no nuance and you picked your side and will defend it 100% never admitting even the slightest fault on your "side" >>534500515yawnmore hysterical leftoid talking points>>534500729fuck off retard
>>534500729Russia was never going to be "too poor" to move into Georgia, Crimea or Ukraine.
>>534500869my post was in response to that post
>>534500945>do you not understand how dependence on someone restricts your actions against them?Europe as never going to attack Russia, that's NOT how NATO works at all. You seem to have a Trumpian understanding of that alliance. EU vetoes by Putin sympathetic member States has far more effect on the EU's policies towards Russia.>>534500945>more hysterical"ending America" is hysterics, not what I posted.
>>534500889right so the left holds real power and the right was just tossed a bone with trump so they keep voooting. and yet everything trump did had to be done by executive order so it will all be undone on day one of the next dem president. really you're just proving the futility of voting and also proving its your side that is the establishment in power.
>>534499396> He did the bit!Miggers are so predictable. This isn’t even fun anymore, get some new material.
>>534501017No it wasn't. What you did was deliberately not read it because it contradicts your bullshit about how nothing changes. Ego preservation strategy.
>>534501252>MiggersDidn't read past this.
>>534499396based parrot who regurgitates right wing talking points
>>534501137who said anything about europe attacking russia. stop making assumptions about what you think i meant, because you're always wrong.europes support for ukraine has been to trickle them weapons just enough that they keep fighting but never enough for a decisive win. because they can't afford to give ukraine too much support, in part due to their dependence on russia. they are less dependent now then they were but especially in the early years of the war their support for ukraine was not as great as it could have been were it not for that dependence on russian oil. they would have been able to risk more. nuance, please try to develop some>>534501299i read it and wrote a relevant response to it
>>534501183The only ones with a semblance of real power right now is the Conservative Supreme Court.They decide how much of Trump's illegal nonsense they can stomach, as Trump is thus far not willing to run athwart them.They also get to decide where your Rights end and Big Corporate's begin.Haven't seen even a whiff of that Immigration Reform Bill that advanced in Biden's last year, which was everything the GOP wanted, but Trump would not allow to get passed.Has curiously never come up for discussion since.Legislation put into Law in a President's term is their lasting Legacy, whether they initiated it or Congress. Right now Trump's legacy is Billionaire Tax Breaks and Chaos.
>>534500945Didn't read. >>534500988European dependence on Russian energy gave Russia significant geopolitical leverage while enabling it to build up its military under a strong economy that only aided in keeping Putin in power. What about this don't you understand?
>>534501332>how to say you're a migger and the word bothers you immensely
>>534501401You are never clear at any point what you mean about Ukraine, what Europe SHOULD have done, or why Putin is doing anythijng.It's just vague nonsense and name-calling.
>>534501401Bye worm.
>>534501445he can't understand, because like you he's an extremist retard that cannot comprehend any nuance and must always take a position that is 100% in support of one side having done nothing wrong. you're just like him but the other side. he was right about gas prices, you're right about ukraine.
>>534501445>gave Russia significant geopolitical leverageTo do what exactly? If Europe was buying ZERO fuel from Russia, what EXACTLY do you suggest would have gone differently in Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine??You assert that Ukraine is the EU's fault, not Dindu Putin, but explain how NOT buying their energy would have changed the equation? Russia borders more than one major fuel customer.
>>534501583>More name-calling.You have nothing else.
>>534501534europe shouldn't have become dependent on russian oil because that limited their capacity to respond to russian aggresion. europe shouldnt have flirted with ukraine joining nato because that has always been russias red line and they did exactly what they said they would do if ukraine looked to be joining nato. russia is paranoid and retarded and cant allow ukraine to fall into natos hands because that puts nato too close to moscow with only flat land and no geographic barriers. so russia did the obvious and seized the eastern half of ukraine and now you should give up on it instead of wasting lives, because you're never getting back and they speak russian in east ukraine anyways so fuck it. clear enough for you? of course not, because you have to strawman me into some 100% extremist side just to try and understand me, because you're 100% extremist yourself and see the world through a lens with no nuance.
>>534501846>because that limited their capacity to respond to russian aggresion.see>>534501697What are you even suggesting the appropriate response SHOULD or WOULD have been without energy dependency? You are building an argument out of NOTHING.I'll ignore the rest of your Vatnik noise-making.
>>534501697do you think europe being dependent on russian oil is helpful when it comes to europe resisting russia?
>>534501955do you think europe being dependent on russian oil is helpful when it comes to europe resisting russia??
>>534501583Didn't read. >>534501697>To do what exactly?Project power outside of its borders and give military aid to countries like Syria and Iran. >what EXACTLY do you suggest would have gone differently in Georgia, Crimea, UkraineYou don't think giving Russia a couple trillion dollars aided it in building up its military and strengthening its economy so it could turn its head to conquering territory it lost when the SU fell?
>>534501975You are suggesting (over and over) that the EU could not make some sort of appropriate "response" to it BECAUSE of it, without once hinting what the appropriate response would or could have been.So elaborate or shut the fuck up.
>>534502088do you think europe being dependent on russian oil is helpful when it comes to europe resisting russia???
>>534502064So you are suggesting EU military counter-aggression against Russia to start off WW3. That's fine, you are already a confirmed idiot.I am interested in what >>534502014 suggest, now he's dodging a simple question with his own questions.
>>534491438I'm a Hospital physician. The government has paid me 3% less year over year for the last 4 years. This is not a roaring economy by any means. When Medicaid finally sunsets it's going to be fucking over you have no idea.
>>534502120The EU isn't at war with Russia, this is a nonsense question, and you haven't answered mine.
>>534501697>You assert that Ukraine is the EU's fault, not Dindu PutinI didn't say Putin had nothing to do with it, retard. What kind of a strawman is that? Lol. However, you honestly can't argue the EU didn't contribute to Putin's hold on power by bolstering the Russia economy via its dependancy on Russian energy.
>>534491462Perhaps his single sample is low, but everyone I know who voted for Trump now regrets it. That's an additional sample size of 10 so now we're up to 20 in just this sample. I will say the positive of this is that everybody is getting red pilled on Jews.
>>534502183>So you are suggesting EU military counter-aggression against Russia to start off WW3What the fuck are you talking about, retard? Lol.
>>534502238do you think europe being dependent on russian oil is helpful when it comes to europe resisting russia????
>>534502246Are you HONESTLY suggesting that Putin's hold on autocratic power in Russia would fall apart due to economic stress? Are you!?You just keep digging that idiot-hole deeper and deeper.
>>534502334>What the fuck are you talking about, retard? Lol."Project power outside of its borders"How else am I supposed to interpret that?Maybe you should reread your own posts.What does power projection outside it's own borders vs Russia even entail then?
>>534502375>Are you HONESTLY suggesting that Putin's hold on autocratic power in Russia would fall apart due to economic stress?I'm describing how the EU injected around 2 trillion into the Russian economy and helped fund Putin's mandate which included military buildup, moron. Why are you avoiding what I'm saying? Do you honestly believe giving all that money to Russia and becoming dependant on Russian energy played out well? LOL!
>>534502344Europe isn't at war with Russia, it would be a serious question if that were the case, sure.Now, how does not buying any oil or gas from Russia significantly alter the outcomes of the last 25 years? Because you keep baselessly asserting that it's a major factor.
>>534502517>"Project power outside of its borders"Yes, retard. Giving Russia leverage over you by being dependant on it for energy, the key component in your economy, is enhances its ability to project power. This is compounded by giving it trillions of dollars it can use to build up its military and aid it's proxies (e.g. Syria and Iran). Fuck you're dumb.
>>534502546Russia would have simply sold to someone else, India, China, it borders oil hungry nations on every side. Europe was just a more convenient customer.I'm saying that European fuel purchases had no net affect on Putin's plans at expansion, and neither of you clowns can suggest how it did.You both suggest "things would be different" had Europe bought fuel elsewhere, but offer not a single clue how. Russia never concerned itself with NATO intervention in grabbling up old Soviet territory, it just rabbited into Ukraine when it felt it was on the verge of signing onto NATO to thwart it's eventual grabble. ddIt simply forced Russia to move before it was fully readied, with the results you see now.
>>534502647europe is in a proxy war with russia. and as i said earlier, europes support has been restricted in part due to its dependence on russian oil, thats not helping. were they less dependent on russian oil, especially during the early years of the war, then they would have been in a better position to supply ukraine with weapons. they trickled in the weapons very slowly when an early surge in weapons would have been more helpful. and russia having all that oil to fund the war has been very helpful to russia.can you not admit that dependence on russian oil was maybe at least a tiny factor in this ukraine war? no of course you can't, because you're an extremist, you can admit not the slightest fault in "your side" and you're impossible to reason with. so i ask you again, already knowing you won't have a real answer...do you think europe being dependent on russian oil is helpful when it comes to europe resisting russia?
>>534502676>Project power outside of its bordersYes, explain exactly what you meant by that. I know PRECISELY what it means when the US government says this; it means military blockades and/or dropping ordinance.What it means to a Chinknadian you have yet to clarify.This seems hard for both of you.
>>534502964you keep missing the other half of the equation, how dependence on russian oil limited europes response to russian aggresion. russia could have sold to someone else sure, but then they would have made less money, money that was useful, in the war, thats another angle you keep missing.
>>534503091does being dependent on russian oil not put europe in a weaker position against russia?
>>534502983>europe is in a proxy war with russia. Ok let's run with that.>and as i said earlier, europes support has been restrictedIt has only been restricted by it's own modest supplies of excess weaponry; it was never going to turn all it's ordinance over to a non-EU State. It has also been limited by American leadership (Biden and Trump) telling the EU to keep certain long range weapons out of Ukraine's hands. If the EU was afraid of Russia Masterblastering them, NO military supplies woud be flowing into Ukraine, simple as that.
>>534503132>but then they would have made less moneyPrices are global,, China doesn't buy cheap oil, unless it is under the table sanction oil.
>>534503352they could have given ukraine the same weapons but faster. the weapons dripped over slow as molasses. and part of the reason why was because europe could not afford, especially in those early years, russia cutting them off russian oil, because europe had grown dependent on russian oil.can you seriously sit there and tell me that europe being dependent on russian oil wasn't even the smallest factor at all in anything?
>>534502964>Russia would have simply sold to someone elseIt doesn't work like that, retard. There wouldn't have magically been equal demand from other countries (China and India were already buying from Russia as well) and that doesn't answer to the dependance the EU allowed to grow for decades. >You both suggest "things would be different" had Europe bought fuel elsewhere, but offer not a single clue how.I'm not reading the other guys posts but it's obvious that giving Russia over a trillion dollars while allowing your economy to become dependant on continued access to Russian energy enriched the Russians, retard. >Russia never concerned itself with NATO intervention in grabbling up old Soviet territory, it just rabbited into Ukraine when it felt it was on the verge of signing onto NATO to thwart it's eventual grabble.No idea what you're trying to say here, retard. Are you talking about how the US funded that color revolution in Ukraine because that doesn't have anything to do with supplying Russia with the funds to build up its military.>It simply forced Russia to move before it was fully readied, with the results you see now.You're not making sense. You're just a retard, bro.
>>534503091>Yes, explain exactly what you meant by that.Jesus. I've explained it to you already you fucking moron. What do you think a country projecting power outside of its own borders entails?
>>534503188>does being dependent on russian oilEurope was only buying 27% of it's oil from Russia at it's peak, it is more like 3% now.The lights were never going out in Europe because Russia cut them off, they would have just bought from the Arabs or Americans.There was a FAINT HOPE that economic trade with Russia would show them the benefits of being a stable, non-aggressive partner rather than a belligerent in the region. That didn't pan out at all.But at no point was Europe dependent on Russian oil, you can stop repeating that nonsense.
>>534503729>What do you think a country projecting power outside of its own borders entails?Military Aggression, as the EU cannot do bank-warfare on other nations.So why did you take offense at my saying you were suggesting the EU attack Russia and start WW3 in the first place?Because you keep suggesting it.
>>534503736>Europe was only buying 27% of it's oil from RussiaLol, not just oil you fucking retard. I was talking to a Fin in this thread earlier about how they were dependant on the Russians for 100% of their natural gas. Fuck you're a dumb one. It's unbelievable really.
>>534503862>Military AggressionIt's not just military aggression, dumb-fuck. Besides, the Russians were funding the Asad regime so, yeah, there's your military aggression.>So why did you take offense at my saying you were suggesting the EU attack Russia and start WW3 in the first place?I never made any such suggestion you fucking moron. Holy shit you're stupid.
>>534503621>I'm not reading the other guys postsbecause you're an extremist retard who thinks because we had a disagreement on gas prices that i must be disagreeing with you on everything. even though we share the exact same opinion on europes dependence on russian oil being a factor in the ukraine war.>>534503736>only 27%that's a lot. what would be the effect of suddenly cutting off 27% sure they could buy from arabs and americans but thats expensive. and what about their natural gas, thats pretty much all coming from russia and thats what they heat their homes with. putin didnt cut them off because they didnt surge the weapons in too fast, they would have gotten cut off if they had. very likely.>only 3% nowwell, only if you don't count the oil from india, who bought that oil from russia, to get around sanctions. and that came years later as europe weaned themselves off.
>>534490305>Your cult leaderSo you admit his approval rating is still high...
>>534503864Other countries sell gas. At the time, the US was a bit peeved that the Euros weren't buying our gas, we have so much fucking gas we've been burning it off as annoying waste at oil fields for DECADES.If Europe had come cup-in-hand wanting US gas, an American has never balked at cutting a sales agreement.
>>534504008Still not reading your posts, bro. I don't care if you're agreeing with me or whatever. You're an idiot.
>>534503947>It's not just military aggression, dumb-fuckTHEN WHAT IS IT????????DO YOU EVEN KNOW???
>>534504108Holy Shit, I accept your concession.
>>534504099>Other countries sell gasAnd? The EU sent the Russians over a trillion dollars it used to build up its economy/military and, in so doing, gave the Russians leverage over their own domestic economies. Why are you trying to defend this? If you dislike Russia and hate Putin you should educate yourself on this so as to potentially hold the people who did this to account instead of pretending it never happened. You're retarded.
>>534504198My concession is that you're a retard and I don't care whether that other guy who couldn't understand the difference between a spot price and trend also thinks you're retarded. I'm glad you accept you're retarded.
>>534504108you clearly did read it lol
>>534504143>THEN WHAT IS IT????????I've told you multiple times already you stupid fuck. The examples you were given were dependance on access to resources that constitute a requirement for domestic economic projection and consumption. You were also given the example of sending aid to proxies and were given Syria and Iran as examples of Russian region proxies. What don't you understand here? Holy shit you're low IQ.
>>534504417Not interested, bro. Direct your (You)s elsewhere because I'm not reading your posts.
>>534504008The point is, the Europeans were only buying Russian because A. they hoped trade interdependence would cool Russian fears and tempers and B. Russia was cutting them a good deal on it.Not because Europe couldn't buy elsewhere. They have forever bought elsewhere, they'd just buy MORE elsewhere.
>>534490015>nooo polls aren't even realHahahahahaha
>>534504323i understand the difference between a spot price and a trend. the argument was about the publics perception of gas prices, gas prices in the worst year under biden match gas prices as the currently are now, that's all i ever said, and you disagreed with that because you're an extremist retard with 0% nuance.>>534504099well they didn't did they? they had 100% reliance on russian natural gas to heat their homes, and you taking the position that this had no impact on europes support for ukraine is absurd. that natural gas from pipelines cannot be replaced with gas from boats at anywhere near the same price efficiency. you disagreed with that because you're an extremist retard with 0% nuance.
>>534504571>he doesn't know about European (and even Canadian) investments in Russian energy infrastructure >he's too dumb to compute how this made Russia more powerful over time>he's too retarded to understand how giving the Russians leverage over your domestic economy via energy dependancy laid the foundation for aggression Lol
>>534504499>I've told you multiple times already you stupid fuck.NO YOU HAVEN'T>EU dependence kept them from projecting power outside their bordersYou mean attacking Russia militarily?>No, that other thingWhat other thing could you possibly mean??>That thing I mentioned earlier (but didn't)\WHAT FUCKING THING!!And here we are.
>>534504725>>534504554
>>534504740>he doesn't know about European (and even Canadian) investments in Russian energy infrastructureI just mentioned establishing trade interdependence. That's a part of it. The EU would let Russia JOIN the EU if it would stop pointing nukes at them and doing invasions.But can't stop, Won't stop. Rebuilding the Evil Empire is Putin's dream and legacy.
>>534504571the pipelines were between russia and europe not europe and somewhere else. do you have any idea how much more expensive gas is from shipping by boat? any idea at all? there's a reason pipelines are so important. germany once had a lot of nuclear power, thats energy independence, but they gave that up, and went with russian gas instead. you're too retarded to understand how giving the russians leverage over your domestic economy via energy dependency laid the foundation for aggression
>>534504924>Rebuilding the Evil Empire is Putin's dream and legacy.woah, its just like star warsputin is darth voldemort and ukraine is the wizards of the rebel alliance, its good vs evil! just like the movies!
>>534504964Paying more for fuel isn't crippling enough to make you abandon your geopolitical postion; we are both paying a lot more now because of stupid military bullshittery. Euros bought from Russia because it was local and cheap, not because they had no other choice. They were bargain hunting, and then Russia threw away goodwill for his stupid Communist Dreams.None of that is Joe's blame, btw.
>>534504745>NO YOU HAVEN'TI did. You just don't know what projecting power outside of your borders means and are thereby too dumb to pick up on the examples you were given. >You mean attacking Russia militarily?For the seventh time: no, retard. Holy shit. >What other thing could you possibly mean??Holy shit you're stupid. If you've never heard about "projecting power" as it relates to nation-states stop posting on /pol/ and go read a fucking book. >WHAT FUCKING THING!!I literally gave examples in the post to which you're responding you fucking idiot. Do you seriously not understand how energy commodities are vital for a nation's economy? Can you not extrapolate that how being dependant on a potentially and historically hostile power for these commodities constitutes decreased geopolitical leverage for you and increased leveraged for the other aforementioned power? Do you seriously not compute that this constitutes a projection of power outside of the borders in regard to that aforementioned power? Even if this is too much for you, how do you not understand redirecting wealth to proxies? Do you not know what a proxy is? Fuck you're dumb. I mean, holy shit. You're easily one of the dumbest people I've come across on this site.
>>534505060Putin has spoken publicly REPEATEDLY about how the breakup of the USSR was a tragedy that he's intent on undoing.>But what if the Soviet Empire, held together at gunpoint, was Le Good!?!?So you're climbing into the idiot-jhole dug by that 3rd Anon?
>>534504924>I just mentioned establishing trade interdependenceNeoliberalism was wrong about countries magically becoming friendly because they gain more economic power, retard. You posted a meme making fun of lolbertarians earlier and yet this is one of their core beliefs when it comes to geostrategy. You didn't know this because you're a fucking retard.
>>534505315>I did. You just don't know what projecting power outside of your borders means And you refuse do define what it means to you.To an American, it means either leaning on you with control of international banking (sanctions) or pulling up on your coastline with a carrier group.The EU has no power to do the former, only the US has that power (for now).You are really stuck, aren't you? You dug this stupid-hole yourself I remind you.
>>534505417>Neoliberalism was wrong about countries magically becoming friendly because they gain more economic powerYES.No one has suggested otherwise. That was never an argument made in this thread, congrats on winning that point that no one made.
>>534505198bro they can't afford to heat 100% of their homes with natural gas by boat, totally replacing a pipeline they had grown dependent on, in a short time. during the early years of the ukraine war, when europes support was most needed, they could have flooded in weapons, and the weapons trickled over instead, because they were in a tough spot and couldnt afford to completely cut themselves off russian energy, especially the natural gas, overnight. for years they still bought russian oil through india ffs, and they knew that was russian oil, they had to do it.it was a factor ok, just admit that. you can say it was a small factor fine. but to say it wasnt a factor at all is just extremism. have at least a little tiny ounce of nuance please. you're being unreasonable
>>534505498>And you refuse do define what it means to youHoly fuck! I've defined it like 5 times now you fucking moron! You still think projecting power is merely attacking someone's military even after it has been clearly laid out to you that it involves economic entanglements that carry leverage in your favor and can mean funding proxy states from a distance! FUCK! You're beyond stupid! You're so dumb. Holy shit, you're stupid.
>>534505604>No one has suggested otherwise.You literally parroted that argument in a post above you fucking retard!
>>534505677yeah its frustrating isnt it when the person you're arguing with refuses to admit even the slightest nuance. now you know how i felt arguing with you.
>>534505638>it was a factor ok, just admit that.I readily admit that it was a concern of theirs. Europe has stayed warm in the past without Russian gas, American gas would have been more expensive short term, and they consider the other alternatives "dirty". But there wasn't a major issue with their hands being tied to Russian Aggression because he had gas on sale. The 100's of thousands of Russians blown up with Euro weapons can attest to that. The were never going to empty their AF bases and tank yards into Ukraine, they DO have their own considerations.
>>534505677>Holy fuck! I've defined it like 5 times now you fucking moron!Link to it then, it should be easy.You just keep repeating "They had other options". You adamantly refuse to name any of these options."Them Options" is not a sufficient answer.
>>534505985You are honestly the dumbest person I've ran into on /pol/ in a long time. It's actually amazing just how stupid you are. It's one thing if you don't understand something but entirely another when you insist that you do while demonstrating, with every response you write, that you're completely clueless. Holy shit, anon. You're complete lack of self-awareness when it comes to your own stupidity is actually amazing. Reading your replies is like witnessing some Amazon tribesman trying to interact with a computer for the first time. It's like watching a kid with down syndrome staring at a Rubik's cube. Holy fuck you're dumb.
>>534505781>>534504554
>>534505882>I readily admit that it was a concern of theirs.WOAHHUGE DEVELOPMENTfuck how many posts of denial before you were able to admit that? holy shit. yes, it was a factor.now we can argue about the degree to which it was a factor. but at least you can FINALLY admit that it was a factor.and i never said they needed to empty their bases. i said give ukraine the same weapons, but give them faster when they were needed the most. its the timeline thats the issue. but early on in the war they were more dependent on russian energy and that likely diminished their support for ukraine in the form of a slower weapons transfer for fear of russia cutting them off energy they would not have been able to replace so quickly.europe really dragged its feet on the delivery of those weapons. it was slow.
>>534505781He's being obtuse because he has no answer, you are being disingenuous to prop up an argument that has very little merit.You can't explain what he meant by "projecting power outside their borders, but not military" either, because he refuses to elaborate.
>>534506098this faggot tried to suck my dick behind a tim hortons
>>534506192this faggot tried to suck my dick behind a dunkin donuts
>>534506056HAHAHA.Goddamn you are stuck.Never providing that clarification, are you?dNow you are devolving into a Trump Truther rant.
>>534506272>the EU sold out its own domestic energy sectors in the name of greening their economies>this involved becoming dependant on Russian energy commodities >Russia now had economic leverage over EU countries >Russia was enriched to the tune of over a trillion dollars>Putin had $$ to finance his mandate which he used to build up his military It's fucking nuts that you can't understand this, lol.
>>534506453I asked you, repeatedly, what you meant when you said Europe had options to exert power at Russia outside it's borders.Nothing in this post, nor any of your other posts explains what you might have meant by that, it casually reads like you are suggesting EU blockades or attacks, but you insist it does not.You also fail to convince me that Russia couldn't have sold fuel to anyone else, that Euros were VITAL to funding his last 3 invasions, or that the EU wouldn't ship bullets to Ukraine because of gas lines.Russia's gas leverage over Europe at most slowed inevitable response to their military action; they are still on day gorillion of their expedition, they are still down a million and counting.
>>534506844>what you meant when you said Europe had options to exert power at Russia outside it's bordersI never said that! You can't even read! What the fuck are you talking about?! LOL!
>>534506921>534502064>Project power outside of its bordersJust claim you are drunk and go away now
>>534506921>>534502064This is your post.
>>534507155>Project power outside of its bordersRussia you fucking moron! I never said anything about the EU projecting power outside of its borders and only a fucking illiterate retard who also knows fuck all about anything would think I did! Holy fuck! You're so stupid! My gf just asked me why I was laughing!
>>534507192>>gave Russia significant geopolitical leverage>To do what exactly? >>Project power outside of its borders.RUSSIA YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!! HOW THE FUCK DO YOU READ THAT AS ME SAYING THE EU NEEDED TO PROJECT POWER AND ATTACK RUSSIA'S MILITARY?!?!?!LOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>534490015>where does the information even come from for disapproval rating polls. >is it made up ?Yes, of course it's all MADE UP.
>>534507428He has 100% of 30%?! Truly it is over.
>>534507585>DURRR, I CAN'T READ!!Lol
>>534493059This was the funniest one. Miggers spent a year saying tariffs were good for the people, but then they just got inflation while companies pocketed the difference.
>>534507428>100% of trump supporters support trumpwas this a joke?
>>534507658It literally says 60/30 split on his doctored image tho.I DO concede that I misread your previous remark, apologies for my confusion there.Russia's continuous invasions were not reliant on Euros tho.
>>534490015migger
>>534507778You're a fucking retard who can't read, lol. Holy shit, thanks for the laughs you fucking retard.
>>534499396It’s okay to admit that you were wrong
>>534508138Well, at least you accepted my concession without being an ass!
>>534509113Maybe next time make sure you understand something before making 80+ self-assured posts all while being told you're coming off like a clueless retard.
>>534509437Yes, maybe we will both behave differently!
Does anyone in this thread smoke weed
>>534510311Why? You'll still be a retard and I'll still laugh at you, lol.
>>534490015*coughs*https://vocaroo.com/1wao1ONariOl
>>534490015So strong and so orange!100% made in the USA beefcakeTrump is cool because he is a million times better than Kamboobala would have beenInstead of another 10 million illegals and white men being told they can't have jobs or education on account of their skin color we have the opposite. In absolute terms, he's the best president since Andrew Jackson one could argue. But compared to the alternative in 2024, he is literally the savior of our nation and the most important American since the Founders finished drafting the Bill of Rights.
>>534492340>In no measurable, meaningful way have things improved in the last year and a half, economically.The fuck are you talking about? Every macro indicator is solid. Gas price is the only thing to complain about. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single example of a metric that's not in good shape. I'm sorry but Biden's inflation is impossible to undo because that would require deflation which is basically an economic catastrophe. So besides prices still being jacked and that never going away, everything else is pretty tip top.
>>534490305>a war that only benefits Israel,Retardo. It benefits literally everyone except Russia for Iran not to have nukes. That would allow them to go fuck with their neighbors who are our proxies with impunity like Russia did to Ukraine. Israel benefits less from this than we do and every country that trades with the GCC. Even the Chinks wouldn't want a nuclear Iran as they get half their oil imports from the Gulf and a nuclear Iran would completely destabilize the region. It's okay though as Trump made that an impossibility for them,
