>The paper that first printed the Communist Manifesto in English was published by two American feminists, Victoria Woodhull and her sister Tennessee Claflin, whose campaign Marx considered ‘middle-class humbug’ and who were eventually expelled from the Communist International.They literally made his work available in English and that's how he thanks them
>>534544368guy was a lazy sponging nigger who never paid his bills, didn't support his family, never worked a job and fucked the unpaid live in house maid. total fucking scum bag who practiced all the evil that he projected out onto the ebil capitalists. his followers have adopted a similar way of life.
>>534544838trvth nvke
>>534544368The great geniuses of humanity, such as Marx or Epstein, tend to be like that.
>>534544838>he wasn't a wagie who paid his bills, that's double plus unkosher.
>>534544368>>534548312He was jewish
>>534548560is that what your masters told you?
>>534544368Marx didn't have much to do with the writing and printing of the manifesto, he was just the biggest name of the time that would get it's attention... he was also a drunken women beater so I doubt he gave a shit about what some female journalists had to say.
>>534544368>whose campaign Marx considered ‘middle-class humbug’I think you have your answer there
>>534548643He is genetically jewish, his father was a rabbi.Don't even try.
>>534548643>>534548312The new thing leftypol does now is try to paint Marx as anti-Semitic to make him more popular here
>>534549098>This is the starting point of a complex and somewhat metaphorical argument that draws on the stereotype of "the Jew" as a financially apt "huckster" and posits a special connection between Judaism as a religion and the economy of contemporary bourgeois society. Thus, the Jewish religion does not need to disappear in society, as Bauer argues, because it is actually a natural part of it. Having thus figuratively equated "practical Judaism" with "huckstering and money", Marx concludes, that "the Christians have become Jews"; and, ultimately, it is mankind (both Christians and Jews) that needs to emancipate itself from ("practical") Judaism.[8]
>>534549098He was a raging anti semite tho...
>>534548312its called stealing things and in his case that meant from the working class he claimed to care about so much. the hypocrisy of inspiring generations of retards to whine about working being stolen from when the fucker literally stole from the workers and fathered a bastard child (that he never supported in any way) with his unpaid servant. no wonder the nigger wanted a welfare state
>everyone more successful than me owes me money>the rant
>>534549439typical self-hating jew. those are the jewest jews, ready to jew out other jews and even outjew all of them
>>534549512There's a lot of misconceptions about the guy... for one he did have a job, he was a journalist, a radical one hence why he was kicked out of like four countries for talking shit about the elites. Secondly Engels egged him on to not work and continue to write and work with him on their little economic philosophy.
>>534549349A self hating jew on paper but his entire movement was anti Christ and anti religion(except for the jewish one). surprise a jew causing a jewish civil war in which whites are cannon fodder for jewish interests says he doesn't like rich jews that won't give him money to beat his wife. I am shocked
>>534549809Is this like when women jump on some post about something a horrible woman did to defend the woman and blame the man?
>>534549809>or one he did have a job, he was a journalist,i know, he wrote a few articles and got engles to do the rest. >engelsyes i know, marxs bitch who he sponged off (profits from engels factories) once his family quit giving him money.
>>534549823you're not fooling anyone, rabbi.
>>534544838Shut the fuck up and try reading his works.
>>534548312If youre writing a theory on labour but dont produce any labour then yes youre just a petty bourg faggot who shouldnt pretend to relate to the working class?>>534549439Selhating jewry is so stupid like bro youre not the exception just kill yourself you disgusting kikel. But instead Marx had to be peak jew and fuck the world up, imagine how much better the world would be if marx was a stillborn instead
>>534549788>Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world – both the world of men and nature – of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man’s work and man’s existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it.
>>534550300you shut the fuck and try finding out about your fucking moron guru commie fucker
>>534549809> He had a no labour producing job in which he wrote pilpulThats even more petty bourg pathetic
>>534550361>admits he never read his works>has nothing but an ignorant opinionConcession accepted.
>>534549958What exactly do you think he was spending the money on? He was known to buy guns and weapons and shit for his communist and union buddies.
>>534550395its funny how his communist ideal (do whatever you want all day without ever becoming that exclusively) was exactly how he managed to live on other peoples money his entire life. the irony is incredible.
>>534544368>Why didn't he submit to a few entitled bitches like we rightwingers love to do?
>>534544368>>534544838>>534548002>>534548142>>534548183>Also prefiguring the man was a trait that Marx developed early in his youth and never relinquished: a shameless sponging on friends and relatives. Already in early 1837, Heinrich Marx, castigating his son Karl's wanton spending of the money of others, wrote to him that "on one point … you have wisely found fit to observe an aristocratic silence; I am referring to the paltry matter of money." Indeed, Marx took money from any source available: his father, mother, and throughout his adult life, his long-suffering friend and abject disciple, Friedrich Engels, all of whom fueled Marx's capacity for spending money like water.>An insatiable spender of other people's money, Marx continually complained about a shortage of financial means. While sponging on Engels, Marx perpetually complained to his friend that his largess was never enough. Thus, in 1868, Marx insisted that he could not make do on an annual income of less than £400-£500, a phenomenal sum considering that the upper tenth of Englishmen in that period were earning an average income of only £72 a year. Indeed, so profligate was Marx that he quickly ran through an inheritance from a German follower of £824 in 1864, as well as a gift of £350 from Engels in the same year.>As in the case of many other spongers and cadgers throughout history, Karl Marx affected a hatred and contempt for the very material resource he was so anxious to cadge and use so recklessly. The difference is that Marx created an entire philosophy around his own corrupt attitudes toward money. Man, he thundered, was in the grip of the "fetishism" of money.Karl Marx was an insatiable, lazy parasite and total loser, just like his followers.No wonder they idolize him, since they see themselves in him.
>>534550453oh i admitted that did i? lol, fucking idiot.>>534550479well, it wasn't on paying the people who brought him his food and booze, rented their rooms to him and his family, and certainly not on his illegitimate child with the unpaid maid.
>>534550395>you have to work in a factory to write a philosophy about how greedy elites reduced human labor down to nothing more than a consumable commodity.
>>534550599Lots of poor people lived like he did. It wasn't uncommon.
>>534550453Communism is identical to Late Stage Capitalism, both a system in which a small select statecorp owns everything and you the prole goy "equally" own nothing. Only a usefull idiot would willingly speedrun towards controlled economy Late Stage Capitalism through a trick and dialectic literally funded by the rich and thought of by a jew. There are no intelligent or labour producing people within the communist movement. Only suburban petty bourg naive spoiled whites with soft hands and office jobs, instead of "reading his theory" show ur clean sedintary hands and wrists so we can all laugh okay midwit. Also both capitalism and communism have a massive jew supremacist problem that communism has no solution for
>>534544368>female activists >nepo baby female activists
>>534550725Kek. I always love this argument the most. Practitioners are like niggers; they don't understand that they'd still be living in trees without theorists.
>>534550358super jew trying to jew lesser jews, or, as they call them, jewyim
>>534550725You have to practice what you preach yes, how can you even relate to the working class when you yourself are too good to work. As I said communism is never an ideologue for the proletariaat, but for the spoiled useless eater overeducated petty bourg midwits. Only an idiot would trust a work on the working class not máde by and for the working class. Its a bourg trick to speedrun LSC for 90iq redditor and tumblr retards
>>534550761it wasn't uncommon to be a sponger all your life, not pay your bills, get evicted and fuck the unpaid live in servant behind your wifes back, all while whinging about how capitalism is the real scourge of the working class? lol.
>>534550599You did. Because if you had actually read his works, then you would know that he did spend alot of time working.
>>534550987on bullshit fantasy waffle instead of looking after his family. he seemed to work pretty hard on being a disgusting slob who wasted all the money he managed to sponge. also worked his unpaid servants ass quite a bit.
>>534550987His references to sources for das kapital would fill a book in themselves. The man worked day and night in libraries.
>>534550987Working according to marx is intrinsically linked to labour. How does a journalist produce labour? If anything he worked a gov job on the taxation of others while producing nothing for or towards society, anyone who lives like that should be discarded, their opinions are useless because they are willingly untermensch
>>534550945He also couldn't work a normal job, he had a debilitating skin condition... It still doesn't take away from his works tho.. so what's your point? >>534550971Ok and? He was an asshole. Does that take away from his works?
Didn't he write a 5000 page trying to discredit max stirner which in the end was pure ad-hom and never made any point versus stirner?
>>534551215>>534550945>>534550805>>534550352I already argued why it goes against his work, you pretending to be blind because youre unwilling and incapable of destroying any of my arguments isnt my problem, i have scoliosis and worked factories, he has no excuse neither do you, tell me what job you even do you petty bourg faggot
>>534551299So when a publishing company produces books from the authors work and they profit off it, did the author not produce any form of labor so the publisher can publish books and make profits?
>>534551254I've never read it. But stirner was the founding father of anarchism. Which, in principle, has the same goal as communism, except it claims that people don't need to be prepared for it, but are already ready to live in a utopia, therefore they only need to be liberated. Do people seem to you as if they're ready for living in a harmonious world?
>>534551215>Does that take away from his works?it makes him a complete hypocrite. he was the morbidly obese guy shouting at everyone about how fat they were.he was the fantasist who created reams of bullshit like this:in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic.this is the life of a wealthy Lord, the kind of life that he himself had due to sponging off everyone else around him while producing nothing of value and engaging in the many things that he condemned the world around him of doing.
>>534544368Anyone within the communist movement who does not produce labour is inherently a poser a fake a traitor to the communist party. You áre the rich you are their HR workers you are their office cucks, you are therefore the enemy and under communism must face the wall and be shot to make room for the proletariaat who actually produces labour, who actually births and procreate. Parasites will have no place in the movement any longer
>>534544838Marx was the ideal communist, in the same way mohammad is the ideal muslim.
>>534544368Because he was a Jew.
>>534551518Have you read anything beyond the manifesto by the guy?
>>534544368Theirs really "men" out there following ideologues for women. Absolutely cucked
>>534550300I have. They're drivel.
>>534551574yeah thats right
>>534544838lmao he'd be #metoo'd and cancelled for being a sexpest if he lived today
>>534551574>rejects any ideology whose creator has flawsThose are all the ideologies. Some people simply don't want to live in your nihilistic midwit world.
>>534551708Really? Can you tell me why you think they are drivel? Explain in the greatest detail possible btw...
>>534551708Lmao. You didn't, liar.
>>534551792>flawseveryone has flaws anon. this shit wasn't flaws. it was a guy living in the precise way that he accused the evil capitalists of living, only worse because he didn't even create any jobs for people to earn some money from. he just took took took, bitched his entire life, and created a legacy of the worst and most murderous regimes the worlds has ever seen. my god what a nasty jew.
>>534551792>communist>calling others nihilistic.Marx wrote antihuman drivel from a place of severe misanthropy. Communism is not a philosophy which seeks a better future for mankind. Communism is a philosophy which seeks to usher it into a grave. Only communists are too dumb to see this obvious fact.
>>534551789He would also be canceled today as an antisemitic jew.
>>534551979China is overrunning you. Be sure your children will live in a communist world.
>>534551890The quickest one is the labor theory of value is obvious nonsense. The dialectical view of history (as marx uses it) is also nonsense. Functionally, it works as a religion, but one for whom the material is everything. That is, a religion for idiots and the easily duped.
>>534552094marx quite literally created the religion of communism in his own image.
>>534551792A world in which nihilism and midwittery (common lowest denominator) always succeeds IS the communist system. Just look at the Soviet Union, the Holodomor, Dostoevsky. Communism is the ideologue for the nihilistic soulless athiests and midwits just like their kike leader
>>534552094What's wrong about his take on labor theory of value? I cam bet you don't actually know what his version of it actually is.
>>534552094>The quickest one is the labor theory of value is obvious nonsenseKek. It's you. Do you want to start another 200-post discussion where you're refuted after 20 posts, but you still keep repeating your refuted arguments? Come on, list your constants that supposedly disprove that work is the only relevant value.
>>534544368He literally fought the spread of his crap books when he was old. He knew it was retarded and kikes would gonna use it.That's why he look constipated on these photos. That and the fact he let most of his children die.He also live on the ivory tower, his wife was a rick noble woman during the period and he also took money from his retarded rich (((friend))), engels. He wasted her fortune away and despite living on the start of the mechincal-steam era, he could only criticized without any real knowledge about all the facts like the retarded he was.Therefore OP is also a retarded gorilla-nigger.
>>534544368(((Marx))), the typical scheming jude. Marxist is secular talmudism, separate gentiles and thr wealth.
>>534544368Yet his works (as important and relevant as ever for our liberation) moved whole nations of the proletariat and encouraged other thinkers to build off of his effort.Cope. Cry. Seethe.
Do you guys think the jews are above pretending to be antisemitic to slide in their bullshit? They pretend to be nazis all the fucking time, pretending to be the other is their number one technique ther eis a reason the tv show where every actor looked jewish was called "The Pretender" and they called themselves super geniusesif jew need to slide in a poisonous ideology they ll gladly pretend to be antijew, it relieves their community of responsibility tooIm not saying it WAS the case but keep your mind opened. Triggering revolutions is another jewish specialty
Marx wrote poems worshiping SatanHe was an edgy downward fail son who wrote garbage and sold utopian dreams to fools
>>534544368If you ever talk to marxists its a matter of time until you see they have absolutely dogshit personalitties. Marx was legendarily shit to interact with and barely anyone went to his funeral. That's their model.
>>534552270Marx posits that the value of something is determined by the amount of labor embodied in the production of it. Not its utility. This is obviously disproved by the differing prices of materials that are obtained in a similar way, such as mining. It is also obviously disproved by the "spend three months to dig a ditch no one wants" example.He also posits that human labor is the source of all new value, this again is obvious nonsense. Let us use metals again. The value of a metal is in its utility (industrial, cosmetic, or otherwise). A worker using extra time, or even a large group of workers using extra time to dig up a chunk of metal does not impart additional value to that specific metal.More or less. Marxism is drivel, and this is obvious to everyone that isn't a marxist.
>>534552220Communism isn't much other than other religions. The difference is that it promises paradise and rewards during one's lifetime, not in death. And there are various churches—to stay with the metaphor—that offer a path there. The fact that some of these churches have failed and/or made mistakes doesn't invalidate the religion. And yes, I'm aware that I'm now fulfilling the "real communism has never been tried" meme. But I don't know myself if paradise is attainable; I just like the idea. And let's see what the chinese church achieves.
>>534552897Go to the archive and find our last thread. I already refuted you there.
>>534553109That wasn't me friend. So i'll accept the concession.
>>534553184That was 100% you. Or you're using the same AI.
>>534552994>it promises paradise and rewards during one's lifetimeit doesn't even do that. many are the commies that have endured with great faith lives of toil and suffering because they believe in the eventual achievement of communism at some distant point in the future. its absolutely a religion.
>>534553242>the marxist flees with his tail between is legs.Expected. Thanks for playing.
>>534552897This is a very watered down version of what his take on the question was about... thats classical LTV that he based his ideas off. It's more about how an individual person has a self subjective value they express in the form of labor when they work, and it becomes alienated over time as "capitalist" pressures are added to how that labor is expressed.
I don't have that pictures but when Trotsky was in America, he said I don't tip.
>>534552270Bro, you live in Switzerland, one the richest and most capitalist countries in the worldYou living there refutes anything your bum ass has to say
>>534553294>marx wasn't a materialist, and you can't take his words on his theories as proof of his thoughts. He's actually talking about a spiritual, subjective level of work, not the material.Sure.
Why do low IQ tards keep engaging in ad hominem against Marx? Marx is not a fucking prophet, he’s a sociologist/economist and he’s revered solely on the basis of his intellectual works.Despite calling themselves “Marxist” all communist states developed further on his ideas. If you want to bash someone bash Lenin cause Lenin had a cult of personality made for him, same goes for Stalin, later Mao. Why Marx? He was just a theorist. And IRL he was basically 19th century /pol/tard.
>>534553250The lives of russians have improved dramatically compared to before. The lives of chinese are improving even more dramatically. But these are the works of the churches, not of the religion of communism. When communism is achieved, you will notice it because all power structures will dissolve, simply because they will no longer be necessary.
>>534549098Ironic that the "moderate leftists" like to "distance themselves" from Marx and align with social democracy, often due to his perceived antisemitism. Being the spineless cowards they are, everytime you use Marxist rhetoric to criticize something, they immediately go "This ain't it, chief, Marx was an antisemite :)" and then they go suck off a jewish neoliberal or something
>>534553427Do I have to leave my homeland to be allowed to have a say?
>>534553622its the work of moving away from retarded communist economic policies. >When communism is achieved, you will notice it because all power structures will dissolve, simply because they will no longer be necessary.keep the faith comrade!
>>534553496Spiritual? No. He most definitely had the level of philosophy that had a metaphysical aspect to it. Marxism isn't about economics per say, it's a materialist perspective on the moral economy, like Adam Smith. He just attempted to use a more empirical approach to try and prove his theories. His theory of alienation and his version of LTV go hand in hand.
>>534544368So there's this concept called a 'purity test' and communists love them.
>>534553622Soviet russia and communist china were and are being bankrolled by giant subsidies from capitalist regions. The only thing communism produces naturally is alarming amounts of dead communists.
>>534553780>communist economic policiesSomething like that doesn't exist. You're showing that you're angry about something you don't understand.
>>534553751You have plenty of socialist shit holes to live in if capitalism in Switzerland is a problem for youNobody is forcing you to stay
>>534553842>giant subsidiesWhy would nixon have done that if work isn't the relevant value? Was he secretly a communist?
>>534553872fuck you and your word games, you know exactly what i mean.
>>534553896>americans don't understand what home isThere's really very little new under the sun.
>>534553973>why would the head of a nation make a trade deal to try and make more money?Doesn't the concept of value arising from a deal alone put the core marxist idea to nonsense?
>>534553622The lives of Chinese only improved after Mao died due to capitalism. You should read a book and stop being rude. Under communism, 80% of China lived under poverty. It was only until Deng broke up collective farming and ended central planning that Chinese finally stopped being poor peasants.
>>534554024Yes, I know what you mean, and it's nonsense. I explained why in the posts you replied to. China is a communist country, get over it.
>>534544368He is one of the greatest intellectual of all time. The CIA doesnt allow you to read about him though, you probably think you live in a free country lol
>>534554092So you're saying that the communist revolutionary mao was the wrong person for post-revolutionary development, and that the communist deng was the better man for it? I agree with you there.
>>534554092>one book source means it is correctk lol
>>534554092Deng is a communist you stupid fucking retard.
>>534554049But what did poor china have to offer that rich america needed?
>>534554113retard
>>534553788That's definitely a spiritual take on labor.
>>534554316Less regulations.
>>534544368because he's a jew.look how the jews have thanked England for WWII. or America.
>>534554406Lmao
>>534554260>>534554305Tell me you don't read any books or know anything about communist history without telling me you do. Deng was removed by Mao in the cultural revolution for being a "capitalist roader." You're both retarded.>>534554271Xi regularly gives speeches at Davos praising capitalism lol, you're dumb
>>534552426Marx is like Jesus in that sense, he was born a jew and hated judaism
>>534544368cuz he was jewish and the people that helped him were white. the jew says, the white goy do, same as 2000 years ago. pharisees said to crucify him. romans crucifieid him. funny how time never changes. even today, jews say invade iran, and mayo vermin obey
>>534554454Its true. China's primary competitve advantage is lack of regulations, along with a favorable currency exchange rate.
You know, he really had something going on when he talked about the rights of workers, but then he had to go full retard.
>>534554462>Deng was removed by MaoAnd not just once. What exactly is your point? Deng was a committed communist.
>>534554462You should read Marx instead. Communism is a consequence of Capitalism, you cant skip that step. The soviets did that and they failed, ignoring Marx.
>>534554571A capitalist roader isn't a communist. A guy who de-collectivized Maoist China and privatized most things sounds pretty capitalist to me
>>534554526So now you're finally starting to list your constants.
>>534554595You're a retard who didn't even know Deng was denounced as a capitalist roader and not a communist by his own party. You haven't Marx. You're a retarded, third world shit skin living in Chile.
>>534554526you're leaving out the other advantages that distinguish it from common third world shitholes. they invested in their energy and transportation systems, and they are also very adept at industrial automation.while america invested in israel and the propagation of criminal niggers and spics, china invested in the future.
>>534554668Just because you don't understand what a communist believes. The most fitting counterpart to capitalism is a planned economy, not communism.
>>534544368The left will always eat its self, this has been the case since its very birth in the French Revolution and has been a popular saying here for years. They will always inevitably purity spiral.
>>534554823Not really, Marx was explicit that a centrally planned economy was necessary for communism.You haven't read Marx.A communist society is a society without prices, planning must be bureaucratic.Capitalism doesn't have planning because prices aren't planned, they are set by competition. The anarchy of the market.You don't know what you're talking about.
>>534554745How could he seize power if everyone was against him?
>>534554927Tell me you don't know anything about Chinese history without telling me again.Not everyone was against "Deng" - retard. His faction won the power struggle, with the Maoist Gang of Four, because their economic and political policies plunged the country into a civil war. They had trials where they arrested Maotards and sent them to prison for life.
>>534554899Lmao. And in a minute you'll tell me that socialism and communism are the same thing. You mix half-baked knowledge with propaganda and think you can make a point that way.
>>534554927How did the Bolsheviks take power in 1917 when they only got 10-12% of the vote?https://archive.org/details/MarxAndSatanRichardWurmbrand1976_201904/mode/2up
>>534552426Isn't Marx just another fake name like so many of the ones Jews disguise themselves with? Wasn't it something like Mordechai Levi?
>>534555037You just said his own party condemned him. So it wasn't the party after all, but only mao?
>>534554462Capitalism in marxist terms is not the same as a market economy.
>Marx patrolling thots>Lenin refusing to tipKinda based
>>534554452you're welcome jews
>>534555116Because every communist party has factions, retard. How are you this slow and uninformed about communist history despite calling yourself a communistYou don't know anything lmao
>>534550596The real trvth nvke is that you are entirely correct that Marx was a freeloading, lazy, entitled alcoholic AND that Marx was correct in much of his critique of capitalism and the alienation it produces in modern man. Naturally his utopian fantasy of communism being the inevitable final stage of the human social order is bullshit, even avowed Marxists came to realize this and had to create spin-off theories (see Gramsci’s concept of cultural hegemony) to explain why Marx was wrong.
>>534555203That's right, and he never denied the effects of markets. On the contrary, it was a central, fundamental building block of his analysis. But viewing capitalism as politics is also incorrect, since the economic aspect is the core of capitalism.
>>534554196It would be too on the nose. You must be mistaken if you think there are no pro Communism books in public libraries and bookstores here. They just don't want it to become common knowledge beyond Das Capital and the Communist Manifesto. They just flood people with anti-communism books and ads. The flood for the normies and the pro communism for the intellectuals trying to fully understand it. Books about his political connections to Zionism? Forget it. Those will be rare finds or barely mentioned in the books criticizing him if at all.
The reason only a handful of people attended Marx’s funeral is because everybody that knew him hated him. If you want to know what he was really like, read the parts of the communist manifesto that complain about the bourgeoise. He was a textbook case of admission via projection. His cult followers are the exact same, too. Useful work — producing food, generating material goods, providing utilities — is for the proles (ie goyim) and they believe that they will spend their time doing other things like knitting shitty sweaters and writing bad poetry for The Party. Nepobabies and other people that desperately wish they were nepobabies
>>534554345People having self worth is spiritual?
>>534555340>despite calling yourself a communistWhere did I call myself a communist? Furthermore, I'm always fascinated by how americans declare themselves the winners when they've been humiliated. That trump is your leader is truly fitting.
>>534550300Have read his worksAlso, you didn't call anon a.liarYour messiah was a trust fund nepo baby who didn't batheThe joke is youThe failure is youAt least your are consistent with your God
>>534555588People being alienated from their daily lives due to the incessant curses of profund powers is certainly a spiritual take, yes.
>>534555775>a trust fund nepo babyThat's not quite right. He was more of a one man think tank funded by engels.
>>534555782What profound powers? You mean your boss lol? Or the guy who makes obscene profits off your labor?
>>534555561Some of that was well deserved! I swear some useful idiots get funded to derail communism by capitalists. Not just an excuse to get rid of useless nepo babies outside the tribe. Hell they sometimes also kill the Jewish nepo baby retards too.
>>534556102>capitalism, market forces, and the direction of society aren't profund powers under marxist thought.
>>534544368He was a jew. Literally.
>>534556403>marxist>thoughwe're worshiping an old man here
>>534544368I have not seen that hat in a very long time
>>534556937Thankfully redditors haven't zombiefied all of our dead memes
>>534557213Give it time, zoomies are soulless remixers devoid of original thought.
>>534550300His works:>capitalism as in the very notion of personal ownership will naturally disappear from the world in the next decades as of the time of writing>any labor no matter what has values, if I go on a psychotic spree and dig a hole in my backyard for no reason all day, I'm owed a wage for that>we don't need the market to know what people need, the government can be just a council of "proletariat" who have the magical power to know exactly what people need now and forever everywhere for all of eternity without any input from them
>>534556403In a philosophical sense yes they are profound powers. Do you still not understand what being alienated from one's intrinsic self value actually means? If you're forced to work for money in any form it means you're being alienated from the get go because someone else is issuing that money for you to use under threat of violence.
>>534558693>one's intrinsic self valuethat comes from friends and family, at least to the extent that any relationship with anyone is based purely on 'you'. why do fags think you should get that from your work too? maybe because marx was a worthless sponging nigger who knew he was a worthless nasty sponging nigger.
>>534558693Not necessarily. That is the case under fiat currencies. In a situation without fiat currencies, no one is intrinsically using force to get you to use a certain medium of exchange, because the medium of exchange is inherently valuable.Now, the point you raise is interesting coming from someone sympathetic to marxism, because all currencies are considered fiat under marxism, and a central authority issuing this fiat currency is a necessary component.Now if you'll take the view that people using a non-fiat inherently valuable medium of exchange is still done under threat of violence, because of things like starvation and exposure, i'll remind you that scarcity exists, and marxism does not attempt to solve scarcity.
>>534559220Marxism does not solve anything it points out the failures within a capitalist society and how other "modes of production" also failed for similar reasons. Money on marxism isn't fiat, it's simply capital, and capital is what drives materia conditions, and material conditions is what dictates people's lives, that's the marxist viewpoint, that's the point of the dialectical materialism. An example marx brought up was how people working with machines they don't own to produce stuff they will never use, they simply become an appendage to the machine and in turn are controlled by the capital owner and have thus become more alienated from what they subjectively see as what their labor value actually is.
>>534560598>and have thus become more alienated from what they subjectively see as what their labor value actually is.so fucking what? you work for a guy because you agree with what he offers to pay you for doing it. any subjective ideas about what its worth become irrelevant and whinging about it is pure faggotry
>>534555112(((Moses Mordechai Levi)))
>>534560598Money in marxism is objectively fiat, because marxism rejects the intrinsic value of things. That's what the labor theory of value is. It's the basis for his theory, and as you keep having to pivot away from aknowledging this, you clearly are aware its obvious nonsense.
>>534561131That's irrelevant. A person's true value in their labor isn't what anyone else thinks it's worth, it's first and foremost what YOU think it's worth, and how much labor input you will put into a job or career. If someone else has power over you for reasons that you cannot control that alienates you as a person from your labor, which can cause negative outcomes for you.
>>534561635>, it's first and foremost what YOU think it's worth,LOL. LMAO even.fucking hell this is comedy gold.
>>534561342Again marxist LTV isn't the same as Adam Smith of Aristotles, it's about the individual, not what others view as what value should be. You have to understand that Marx didn't have "one theory", it was many, that all flowed into each other, you can't understand the LTV without going into the alienation theory, and then to commodity fetishism, and so forth... Money in marxism is capital power, it's just another commodity that the "capitalists" use to extract labor and sway social and material conditions. It doesn't necessarily have to be fiat. It's just another exchange for value.
>>534561923What gives you the incentive to work and do a good job? Is it someone else telling you that? Or is it because you need food and water and shelter?
>>534544368Engels was the good cop, Marx was the bad cop.And you have to imagine how much of a fucking SAINT Engels must have been to balance out Marx's behavior
>>534562187because you said you'd do a good job? because you want to keep working at the job? because you dont want to be known as a shitty kind of guy?>Or is it because you need food and water and shelter?sure, thats part of it obviously. the idea that anyone could have a problem with this basic concept, that is built into reality itself, let alone believe theres a way to build a state of things where it doesnt apply is pure unadulterated childishness. why would you be against this if you can do a good job anyway?keep explaining your position anon, its entertaining.
>>534544368Because he was literally right in everything, feminism is cancer
>>534562126Marx's labor theory of value explicitly rejects intrinsic value. I understand he wove his theories together, but it is undeniable that his labor theory of value rejects intrinsic value. It is obvious why this is nonsense. This is why you keep trying to pivot away from discussing his labor theory of value.
>>534562352I'm not sure what you're trying to argue agaisnt here. You're thinking in a reality where we all apply for jobs and have a boss worker relationship without any sort of forms of violence or pressures that are added onto a person's life because of the material conditions that are at play. You value your life, I assume so, so if you want to live you will value your time abd labor to make sure you don't die. That's the basic barebones. Now if you are in a more complex social society, a tribe, you will value your labor even more because now you have outside pressure and other people putting some form of value on that intrinsic labor you out in. Now let's say someone starts taking advantage of you and threatened to kill you if you didn't give 60% of your shit to them, and they made sure everyone else knew this, over time you'll become alienated, subjected to those conditions and social conditions.
>>534562780>Now let's say someone starts taking advantage of you and threatened to kill you if you didn't give 60% of your shit to them,like government taxes? well i do agree that i hate that shit, but all this waffle about alienation is pathetic. its just a job. i do the job, maybe get a bit of satisfaction from doing it and then go home, using the money for my family. >without any sort of forms of violence or pressures that are added onto a person's life because of the material conditions that are at play. what does this waffle mean anon? what 'violence' and pressure? you mean like the boss thinking im doing a shitty job and saying shape up or someone else can do it better instead? well yeah, thats normal. its good. pressure drives you to do better.whats your solution? never firing anyone? giving everyone what the need regardless of working? you think that kind of thing will have a good effect of peoples desire to work harder and batter?
>>534551215>He also couldn't work a normal job, he had a debilitating skin condition...>In the 1800'sChildren were working in factories and fields. He was an obvious jewish bum. Labour is for the goys after all. Quite ironic.
>>534562633Under capitalism it's argued in marxism that all labor put in, comes out as a commodity form to be consumed and later thrown away or used up. It most definitely has an intrinsic value set put to it. The only thing that is argued isn't objective is how the individual views their own labor.
>>534563214You arent getting it... its not about regular working boss relationships here anon. It's about a much deeper philosophy.
>>534563214>what does this waffle mean anon? what 'violence' and pressure? *Communism is an egalitarian ideology, it's not based on building anything, it's based on killing "the oppressors". They can't conceive of a healthy relationship between employer and employee, they refuse to simply adopt NS when it factually gives every worker right communists have ever claimed was what they wanted, they just want to kill people who make them feel inferior.NS already solved this shit long ago, anyone who isn't openly NS is either an enemy or ignorant. >muh we don't have a billion unions anymoreThat's like complaining that you don't have hostage crisis experts in a country with no crime.
>>534549098>>534549439Theres a reason that the early communists were obsessed with forming secret societies and fraternities, to do conspiracies. Two parties agree to terms pricately, then publicly pretend to be opposed but are really working for the same people, for the same ends
>>534564162ok, explain to me this much deeper and more meaningful thing because you dont seem to want to talk about realistic and practical aspects of it. >>534564358yeah its fucking garbage mental masturbation and teenage-like angst bullshit. laughable written by people with zero experience of having jobs at different places. you cant seriously spout any of that crap if you've had a series of different bosses and seen the variation.
>>534563608Again, marx argues against intrinsic value. Marx argues all value is due to the socially necessary labor time. You simply cannot say that under the marxist labor theory of value there is intrinsic value. If your economic theory has intrinsic value it is not marxist. So you are arguing a non-marxist economic theory in support of marxist economic theory. Weren't you the one accusing others of not understanding marx's labor theory of value?
>>534564967Ok I Googled it to make sure I was right. And I am. >Marxism does not reject intrinsic value; rather, it defines it uniquely through the Labor Theory of Value. Marx argued that commodities possess an intrinsic, objective value determined by the socially necessary labor time required for their production, rather than subjective utility or market pricesThe biggest arguments against parts of his LTV is that commodities have intrinsic value, when in most situations they are not objective, they're subjective to the social conditions that humans put value on things with their money. The thing is in marxism money is just another commodity, so it cannot be subjective really, because medians of exchange go beyond money, value is simply set by humans wanting or needing that's about it.
>>534564967theres no such thing as intrinsic value. its all determined by the market situation.
