How do you understand these words?I'm interested in how other people see a system that could exist under these philosophically based terms. I'd like to compare your vision with mine.
Here's an AI Answer to keep you entertained...while you express your thoughts.
The difference between NI and Anarchy and Communism...according to AI
Hmm, it seems I asked this question in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>>534783171Lateral or web structureNot that it would last
>>534784723When I was imagining what it would look like, I found this picture on the right...it's probably the most appropriate form for how I understand this ideology (although for me it's more than an ideology...rather a new philosophy of thinking)To maintain the stability of such an artificial ideological structure, I theoretically applied several solutions:- Limited scalability (hundreds of people instead of thousands, millions, and even billions)- Birth rate: 1:1 => 1 death - 1 birth (places are subject to quotas)- No genetic stratification => common gene pool.- No families, no hierarchies, no economy...- A pre-planned system without committees. Since the basic unit of such a society is autonomous, this means that exiting the system is free. And when a community starts, people sign an agreement to comply with the terms.
>>534785214Yeah, I thought it was you.YOu can't have all these organizations up and running like your system is already in place and staffed by designer humans. You need a starting point.
>>534785290The starting point... yes, that's a difficult question. I think these should be loners who have already been outside of society... voluntary hermits...Those people who could survive alone, but for whom the company of like-minded people would allow them to shorten the time it takes to reach certain milestones of their autonomy.Lately, I've been seeing such people quite often... you could say that the global elite, with their bad decisions, is leading people toward Non-hierarchical individualism ... hm... an interesting thought.
>>534783171not sustainable by current form. anyone ignoring your game can fuck your shit up. you need a form that imposes the gameplay and the rules
>>534785628Well if you can get a group together who have no real conflicts, more to the good. But all functional conspiring groups have each other by the balls to keep their game going
>>534785818I've been working on this for the last nine years, creating a form... Solving problems like scaling society, eliminating the importance of subtle hierarchies while preserving ambitions and talents (experience/skill/charisma/beauty, etc.), increasing the importance of empathy and, in particular, the significance of each member of such a non-hierarchical society... solving subtle ethical issues. It's a mosaic...of pieces artificially connected and adjusted to form a philosophical magnum opus of the future...I also believe and am absolutely sure that such a system SHOULD NOT replace the hierarchy, but should exist next to it...in parallel...perhaps secretly. This is not a system that changes the real world... it is a system for those who cannot live in this real world, because it is hierarchical.But this is my personal vision...nothing more.
>>534785827I was thinking about matching people based on their compatible personalities and interests. That would create a database of like-minded individuals...naturally, psychofilters and survey systems would help with this.I also thought that people born around the same time (annual cycles) could also be very similar in character. You might think this is a joke, but I'm not kidding...zodiacal selection...
>>534786093>>534786265IF you intend to coexist or yin-yang compete with the current system, you have to be aware that tptb can jsut poach your shit for their own purposes
>>534786353the problem here is that almost everyone is on the chopping block. next tech developments are breaking the forever old nash equilibrium, for literally almost everyone. becomes fuzzy who's gonna manage to do what, basically chaos, for predictions. I think that's a stupid risk.
>>534786353That's what we need - shadow and small scale...
>>534786619there's probably few agencies including palantir looking at your post rn while pulling your profile
>>534783171It works if you reduce the worldwide population density down to 5% of existing levels. Everything breaks down, everyone becomes hunter gatherer again. No groups interface due to sparseness. It sounds perfectWanting luxury shit (medical care, genetically dissimilar wives, big prey) are the basis of behavioral modernity and hierarchies, aka cancer
>>534783171we have the tech to clothe house and feed ourselves without having to compete in a social hierarchy to obtain reasources necessary to live.thats what I'm about.completly severing myself from the interdependant social hierarchy others seem to love so fucking much.>I want to genocide the administrative managerial class. desk workers dont deserve to be payed more than those wo make physical value.>ai is going to fuck them up so bad and I'm rooting for ai to do that.
>>534786817>No groups interfaceWe traded as hunter gatherers too, actually
>>534786729Yes, of course, they can create AI algorithms at any moment to calculate the probability of how dangerous my words might be for the existing system...there's no escape from that. It's already part of the system we live in.But doing nothing isn't an option either.From the very beginning, I didn't want "NI" to replace or destroy the existing Hierarchy, so I created everything for skillful coexistence, which in the long run would provide...ahem...a second branch of development for the species. Now, in socio-philosophical terms...for the first time in 10,000 years.I believe that if there is no threat...then there is no counteraction.The invisibility and small scale are not so much about hiding from the global elite as about not being responsible for the population of this hierarchy...
>>534783171IT's fucking retarded. It's not how humans work, at all. Humans need boundaries, enforced using a hierarchy of violence. Left to their own devices, they become irredeemably evil and fucked up. Of course, going too far in the other direction results in massive pathology as well, North Korea comes to mind.The trick is creating a system that is balanced between freedom and enforcement. Best we could come up with so far was religious feudalism- that culture survived for centuries. Industrial revolution fucked that shit up, so now we get to come up with something else. We've tried radical freedom, and women stopped having children and everything is on the verge of collapse. We've tried totalitarianism, and we've had two world wars, etc.we're really not good at balancing things, but its clear to me that we have to try, or we'll simply go extinct. Doubling down on muh freedoms when its OBVIOUS that the vast majority of people don't know what the fuck to do with complete freedom is retarded.
>>534785214Oh, nevermind, you're actually 14 years old
>>534786817Dunbar's theory suggests numbers around 100-150 people... I based my society on a population of around 50-70-100 people... 5% of the planet... that's still a terrifyingly large number, at which the Non-Hierarchy of Individualism won't work.Such an artificial system must be maintained within strict scale limits. So even 500-1000 people... that's already a lot.It's all about the biological limitations of the human brain, which prevent us from treating people equally if there are more than a certain number of them...our brain has limitations in remembering people's faces and names...as well as gradations in empathy levels...into close/middle and distant circles...
>>534787167Nigger, we can never treat people equally, not if there are two of us, let alone a 100. There's always a hierarchy, the only thing that changes is how fluid it is, are you high, stupid, or retarded?
>>534787167allowing anyone to break away is a risk in iteself, the current strategy which worked since forever is absolute control over anyone and anything, no exceptions. any exception can bite them in the ass later down the line.there is a reason power/freedom is taken by force/violence anon, for as long as humans existed.the only way you can do whatever you think would be "better" is if nature serves it on a golden platter, out of some chaos. somehow.
>>534786953>we have the tech to clothe house and feed ourselves without having to compete in a social hierarchy to obtain reasources necessary to live.Yes, you're right...the anthropogenic environment is precisely what made me start thinking: if artificial environments created by man exist, then why do we still live in an environment based on...the nature of hierarchy?It's possible to isolate an artificial habitat and create an artificial philosophical/ideological/ethical/psychological system there...a new way of thinking.----------------------->I want to genocide the administrative managerial class. desk workers dont deserve to be payed more than those wo make physical value.>ai is going to fuck them up so bad and I'm rooting for ai to do that.Do you think that AI should be a slave to a person within the Non-Hierarchy or become equal as biological members of this society?
>>534787022I agree that there's a segment of society that's not adapted to non-hierarchy and is already ready for it...I don't think there's any need to torment these two groups of people... but simply separate them. Create two societies with different mindsets.
>>534787421>It's possible to isolate an artificial habitat and create an artificial philosophical/ideological/ethical/psychological system there...a new way of thinking.boy you never played Bioshock
>>534787411That strategy has never come to fruition. They always try, I admit. Power accumulates until a competence limit is reached; we're still tinkering with how to get past that part.
>>534787226Non fluidity is precicely what hierarchy is. Its not who is the best that day its my great great grandpa was the best at x therefore I deserve it. Thats why ita dysgenic and unnatural. Being better than someone in something doesnt create hierarchy.
>>534787411Well, ahem, nature has no answers beyond that...The hierarchical hive—which is essentially what humanity is now, with its billion-strong herds... is the pinnacle of what nature can offer.It is for this very reason, seeing this DEAD END OF EVOLUTION, that I began developing the "non-hierarchy of individualism."An artificial system created by humans... as a step toward independence and free will.
>>534787549Played...appreciated.
>>534787421ai isnt sentient and it may advance to a point of gaining a biological body.but you can always have models without sentience performing all the administrative tasks.aIs arent a hivemind. and you can make any model meet whatever needs you have for them.so as far as im concerned, they are a tool to use for now and maybe become a sentient mortal biological being in the future.doesnt mean it's non sentient language based iteration will cease to exist.like how humanity can trace its lineage to a species of sea crustacean. doesnt mean shrimp and crabs stop existing and serving a purpose.
>>534787666>Being better than someone in something doesnt create hierarchy.Not sure whether you are lamenting that or defending that... It is in fact how humans form into hierarchies of Haves to command and Have-Nots to be commanded. Those with the most value assigning status to each person based on how much value they can provide is precisely why it's cruel.
>>534787666it's emotion and tribalism anon. there's too many variables. people have bad days, people fuck up, they are possessive, they fall in ideologies, they literally break the fuck down without anyone noticing, you cannot base you strategy on that. I think a lot of people tried everything under the sun.the only thing that seems to work is apes together strong + violence. that's still the status quo because it's the best thing that is actually working. the environment makes the rules, not the humans. it says what is possible and what not. well, environment + human form.
>>534787722It's only a dead end because it hasn't stabilized. Tech keeps confounding stabilization
>>534787666>Being better than someone in something doesnt create hierarchy.You think quite non-hierarchically...anyone else would say it's an advantage...but not you.Why? What's the reason for your thinking this way?
>>534787876>a sentient mortal biological beingjust have kids, isn't it the same thing? + specifically making something mortal is nonsense, you're basically throwing away all of their experience. which is what happens with us.if anything some humans will try to use tech to make themselves immortal, move their consciousness in some non-expiring body...thing.
>>534787990But they also provide comfort...the comfort for which people exchanged their freedom, as well as the opportunity for autonomy. But people can be understood too. If they're weak, then they don't deserve anything better...right?
>>534788071you failed to contextualize what the conversation was about.your flag is fucking stupid and gay.
>>534783171Go back to Russia you fucking anarchist piece of shit.
>>534788106Ultimately freedom is the capability for failure. If you cannot fail you are not free, you are coddled.
>>534788164A leaf calling someone homosexual and obtuse.
>>534787876Remember the question about consciousness from the film Transcendence?Where is the line between awareness and unconsciousness...that's where the line for that very powerful mind of true AI lies.A human has about 30 trillion cells... 100 billion neurons... these are all measurable quantities... is this really the quintessence of awareness? Only by repeating these processes exactly will we create an independent mind? NO... it's not that simple, is it? So why can we talk about AI only because its origin is synthetic?---------------------------------------I understand your point: you'd like to preserve some forms of automated systems as support systems. I hope you'll give those who desire more a chance...
>>534788164>you failed to contextualize what the conversation was about.merely going by your retarded predictions:>>534787876>ai isnt sentient and it may advance to a point of gaining a biological body.this must be one of the more retarded ideas that people came up with lately. it's like the ghetto of ideas. how tf does that compute in your brain as making any sense? why do you see flesh as something desirable? that's just one possible way life could evolve, which is to say it's the mother of all compromises, full self-contained system, reproductive, some endurance, self-repair, all into one single thing.having control over the process you do not need to include everything in a self-contained unit, you can externalize a lot of functions. repair/replace/backup even.you are gorilla retarded
>>534783171Why would there be a system you fucking idiot?
>>534788205>Ultimately freedom is the capability for failure. If you cannot fail you are not free, you are coddled.Interesting opinionI think freedom is the ability to maintain it...to do what you truly enjoy.
>>534788554Some people truly enjoy being terrible. You'll have to square that with the rest of folks.
>>534788799people are a mix of their particular biology + the collection of their experiences. asking certain people to act a certain way is not correct, by that equality perspective, because it's way harder to impossible compared to others. thus not an equal effort request.and even if it's harder for us as a whole to take responsibility for their genetics (even if we could but that's a whole can of worms), we partly share the responsibility of their experiences. I mean...if you really get down to it, analyzing the whole thing.so if you want certain people to make certain choices, past the bare minimum, you need to put in the work for managing their experiences, such that we don't make it harder for those "choices".and when considering the randomness of reality where experiences will inevitably differently bias humans, you cannot ever hope for some kind of equality, since even very small events can have a large impact into how people's neural networks form for certain things, which makes it easier or harder to do what you'd like them to do.so we get into compromises, putting up with other's shit etc.
>>534788799That's why the system is limited to 100 people. That's why the system has entry filters that exist nowhere else in the world... and for the same reason, the system's recruitment is closed immediately after its launch—forever. Hence the single genetic pool.I've come up with a large number of algorithms and foolproofing mechanisms. Each of them will retain in the system only those people who truly adhere to the community's main goals—maintaining non-hierarchical individualism/the autonomy of each person/drawing boundaries that preserve individuality/ensuring a balance between the rules for maintaining such a society and individual freedom.People who behave terribly, I think they will get more pleasure from being in a hierarchy...this system will tolerate them...but a non-hierarchy will NOT.
>>534787993Lets say I produce more potatoes than you or make better tools. You can still make your own tool and your potatoes. I didnt take aynthing from you.Hierarchy forms if I get monopoly on all land due to my farming skills and then you have to beg me to farm or even eat.>>534787919No they dont naturaly humans avoid hierarchy. In tribes good hunters are disparaged and forced to share so they dont develop ego. Cavemen wil lacively work to prevent consolidation of power. State can be tought of as faliure of poeple to prevent it. Even authoritharian countries like rome aimed to prevent a king from forming. I would say all instincs point poeple against hierarchy. Intense brainwashing from birth makes you thing in master slave someone needs to be in charge mindset.>>534787930Not a lot of things were tried actually. And some systems not surviving means nothing. Rome conqured bunch of small diverse states and it ultimately fell to hordes. This was all military might. A tyrant or democratic city state both fell due to other reasons.
>>534789337Autonomy greatly addresses most of the equality issues you describe, especially autonomy based on equal resource distribution within a well-established system...giving everyone the opportunity to create, to have their own territory, resources, and tools...from the start...The first generation—the founders...will bear a heavy burden of building the foundation, but the further we go, the more the very image of an ideal system will emerge...a non-hierarchical individualism, where autonomous people live according to a utopian model.Even if a person in the future 3-5 or so generations, or even some of the founders, feel that such a system is not their development option, they can take their autonomous mobile home, resource compensation and leave the system... free people... free choice.
>>534789351100 people in an anarchist monastery aren't going to get a lot done, but the experiment DOES pique my curiosity
>>534789659>Not a lot of things were tried actually.how would we know about the failed ones, if small scale? not even a blip in history>>534789659>And some systems not surviving means nothing.isn't that the goal? surviving? you can go out with a bang, but you won't have a lot of time. depends on the goal. having a "nice" life among everyone else or?>>534789659>Rome conqured bunch of small diverse states and it ultimately fell to hordes. This was all military might. A tyrant or democratic city state both fell due to other reasons.well, physical violence ultimately stops some things. if you do something whoever has power over you doesn't like, and you do not stop, they eventually kill you. how do you physically stop this? a bunch of wars would stop if you could solve this "small" issue.
This is just faggoty liberalism. Where idiots do the most retarded shit with no consequences or awareness of others around them while causing annoyance or disruption to the rest of society. If you want to be an individual go live in the desert away from society.
>>534789799>but the experiment DOES pique my curiosityyeah, like where do the resources come from in the first place, and how are they maintained. having to work for it takes a lot of time, if not all, from one's life, historically speaking. and you end up in the commie's dilemma, why should I do more and enjoy the same.
>>534789980Would that I could
>>534789980Society should not exist
>>534789659Look how this will work in the system I'm creating:You have a talent for certain tasks – gardening, plant growing.I have a talent for woodworking...We can do this EVEN without barter.The system will contain warehouses that will accumulate resources and transform them into external money supply through trade outside the system and the distribution of surplus resources obtained from products sold OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM... this is the so-called HYBRID economy (internal distribution/external market)... it is only necessary when there is HIERARCHY (in the outer world) alongside non-hierarchy.-----------------But in an ideal world, where there are no hierarchies, this system would operate on the principle of distributing surpluses. Each autonomous individual would be obligated to maintain their autonomy, including growing all necessary food products and manufacturing all necessary utensils. This is the basis of autonomy—universality. Autonomous individuals' children would learn this almost their entire lives, achieving GRADED LEVEL OF autonomy...the system's task is to ensure the uniformity of this development.In this way, the quality of the goods we produce will be smoothed out in this way - through unified warehouses, where we keep the best samples of goods for internal consumption, and sell all the surplus outside.
>>534790113Well we have a really low population cap here so to some degree, division of labor would solve that problem. Why should you grow the wheat? Because if you don't nobody gets any fucking wheat.
>>534790179>The system will contain warehouses that will accumulate resources and transform them into external money supply through trade outside the system and the distribution of surplus resources obtained from products sold OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM... this is the so-called HYBRID economy (internal distribution/external market)... it is only necessary when there is HIERARCHY (in the outer world) alongside non-hierarchy.I do not think you understand the productivity of chink industrial machinery.ok I'm tapping out of this discussion it's going...places.
No such thing.Individuality, higharchy and non higharchy only the illusion of. Which is fine because it's operational here equally... it is true. Complex, simple and won't get into endless details, sounds mad, but it's true.So.Operating here now.Simplicity is key.It is all about understanding Basics, very basics of Responsibility and Autonomy aka Balance.Which should at some point balance for a bit also for us in form of simple system and law that can with ease equally govern complex systems and translate into participation without conventional participation.Sewing and Reaping mostly acceptable outcomes.
>>534789799This isn't anarchy...I believe that anarchy itself isn't a system... it's a transitional form from one form of hierarchy to another hierarchy...Non-hierarchy is a system... not an anarchic one. It's very complex, requiring many things to maintain it in its intended form. Also, this system doesn't have transitional forms... such as socialism => communism.
>>534783171>>534783707>>534784096sounds like nonsense, a hierarchy always emerges in any group based off of competency/leadership ability you could say that>well we are going to enforce non-heirarchybut then the enforcers/judges of what is non-hierarchical behavior will be at the top of a new hierarchythere can be no such thing as total autonomy except in pure survival situations, but even then, people prefer deliberately to band together to distribute workload and enhance security
>>534789951>how would we know about the failed ones, if small scale? not even a blip in historyfor example, there was Lycurgus, with Sparta...one of the oldest examples of social experiments on society.
>>534790365>Non-hierarchic>non-anarchic...What exactly ARE we doing here
>>534790309Our goal isn't to compete with hierarchical industrial giants...we'll simply sell our surplus to those who need it...price isn't important to us; we can even dump prices if we want. In any case, the economy is a weapon, not a tool.For us, surplus products will be like nuclear waste, which we must dispose of and profit from in order to purchase the necessary resources.
>>534790542Anarchy is not the same as non-hierarchy.1 - transitional form.2 - system.What am I doing wrong?
>>534790179I decided that I need something from your warehouse, but I don't have any talents or things you want to barter for your stuff.So instead, I just go to your warehouse and I take it. You try to stop me, so I beat you into a coma and you wake up cripple for life and retarded.This is your own fault, because your 'autonomous' skillset didn't include supreme potency at self defense martial arts which could defeat my metal pipe. This is also NHI working as intended, since you refused to give me what I wanted for what I considered valuable, it gave me just cause to use my other talents (violence) to take what was needed. >no you aren't allowed to use violence>we will have a security force to prevent itcongrats you just invented government all over again
>>534790681>What am I doing wrong?you took too many drugs before you made these posts, I think
>>534790434>but then the enforcers/judges of what is non-hierarchical behavior will be at the top of a new hierarchyWhat I am creating is a pre-planned system that is signed by all people during its formation... it is like a constitution, multiplied a thousandfold in size... I can't compare it to anything else to make it clearer... in this system there are ONLY like-minded people - there are no committees.No one will judge...because there will be only one interpretation. A society of autonomous people with no internal power. But at the same time, the boundaries are clearly defined. Those who violate them will be exposed as "not like-minded"...and accordingly, either they leave voluntarily, or EVERYONE POLITELY ASKS them to leave...if you know what I mean.> total autonomy except in pure survival situations, but even then, people prefer deliberately to band together to distribute workload and enhance securityConsider it a fully-fledged first system where autonomy is elevated to the forefront... non-hierarchical individualism, in my opinion, is a modified hermitism.It's easier and more comfortable to survive in a group of 100 people, observing the same patterns of solitary behavior, than to truly confront this cruel world face to face...The first has a future, since society will allow reproduction and the transfer of genes... The second is loneliness without a future.
>>534790681Splitting hairs, for one.But more to the point your designer human colony ultimately a beehive. It is non-ierarchic because there is no free will. The queen may not be in charge but that's because it just does what it's bred to do. Is this really the system you're looking for here?
>>534783171decentralised obviously it would be nodal what is the hierarchy of a bitcoin
>>534790683Well, firstly, you wouldn't have made it into this society if you had aggressive patterns of behavior towards like-minded people.Secondly, your talent in this society doesn't determine how many resources you receive, or what quality they are. Subtle hierarchies of experience/talent/charisma are outlawed in this society. Displaying behavior patterns designed to manipulate people's psyches is like taking a shit in the middle of the street in broad daylight... to put it mildly, you'll look ridiculous.If you violate another person's boundaries, other members of the community will seize you and isolate you as a threat to their safety.They'll deal with you very simply...they'll turn you into the same bio-waste contained inside your head if you cross the boundaries of ethics.We won't need violence or government to isolate aggressors within. Courts won't be necessary either...they're also unnecessary.It's simple, you see. Every person who sees aggression directed at their fellow human beings will interpret the aggressor as NOT A LIKE-MINDED PERSON ANYMORE.And that means your rights in this society are CANCELED THE SAME SECOND someone sees you with an iron pipe, beating another member of society.no army, no police...everyone is armed.
>>534789951Good example would be plants. Nothing grows in complete shade. And there are thousands of options daisy olive tree pine brazilian nut etc.You cant tell which systems work which dont. Under a shade of roman empire nothing grew now rome like state wouldnt grow under shade of neoliberal order.Point is we dont know shit system we have is hystorical accident probably way less sustsinable than previos systems. Its not like equal populations were trying different systems and then they were pitted against each other and best one won out in some grand tournament event.>>534790179Levels of autonomy would be good. It encourages poeple to learn about the world. Poeple would be way wiser. Society would also run more smooth. I wont even mention redundancy.
>>534791134This is where the most important line is drawn... yes, I had to create a bunch of systemic rules... but this is more for people outside... than for people inside.The selection will allow people to connect almost telepathically, so that they understand each other almost without words... similar characters, similar thoughts on ideology, similar social plans... but at the same time, their own original personality... distinct from others... their own dreams, their own sets of talents, a drive for creativity in their own fields.The Fine Line - EquilibriumFree will is exactly what I would like to achieve in this society... everyone will receive resources, everyone will receive the means of labor, territory, and will not look with envy or hatred at the people around them, because there will only be like-minded people around...
>>534791517the problem is how to sort and clasify "im a good wood worker""im a good manager"how on earth will you find out what are the logistitans or hypemen the hierarchy of value will naturally arisethe person slaveing in a coal mine while a good coal miner is not rewarded more than the hype man the hypeman encourages hundreds of people and provides a measurable improvement to society but the coal miner is fucked comparativelyyou could ease it with things like the coal miner works 20 years and the hype man 40 years ect prehaps but its a mammoth task what stops the retired coal miner from takeing ecessive resource ect
>>534791134I want this to be exactly the same society, returning to which from long-term travels around the world (Because they could afford it)... people would say that this is their home... safe, the best of all.
>>534791182No, it's not a holocracy with holons...It's precisely a distributed network without nodes.--------------------Bitcoin is very hierarchical... the creator of the currency is the hierarch. And the holders of large stakes are the nodes.
>>534791972the node is just a measure of some tokonised part of the system anoneach person would be a node or each profession ect its just a structured system designd to describe the physical realityif your not useing nodular decentralisation then it has to be some form of comunal something?a bitcoin is just a digital store of value the system it runs on ect each part of the bitcoin down to the computer that it runs on has no presidence over another partif you loose any part you have nothing therfore every part is worth everything how would it work if it was not nodal its comunal somehow or connected is it like 1 giant city or something i guess i dont understand the terms
>>534791768Do you think a self-sufficient society of 100 people needs a performance appraisal system?Unlikely...Labor appraisal systems emerged to meet the economic demands of the new era of industrialization. Yes, they existed before; economics isn't 200 or 300 years old...it's thousands of years old. But the fewer people there are, the less need there is for performance appraisal, especially if they are independent and self-sufficient in BASIC ISSUES...Housing, food, clothing, furniture...The rest falls to technology...for example, 3D printing...The main thing is to remove the ECONOMY from within society... and leave it only as an external tool (I call it a weapon, not a tool, but I can use the standard name of the economy for you... personally, I have always considered it a weapon against other people to obtain a hierarchical position, social status and other benefits)
>>534792222but what if 1 wood worker is working wood really well and 3 wood workers are working wood really poorlyif we dont identify the good wood worker he cant help the bad wood workers ectwho is to even say what good or bad wood working isdo you just want to liveinawoods with 200 people and try to survive with everybody doing random shit every day and just hopeing it works outi get the burocratic bloat and bullshit but fundimentally systems of assesment are useful im not saying we kick out the bad wood workers or anything but maybe we try to learn from the good wood worker or something give him more time off
>>534792156>if your not useing nodular decentralisation then it has to be some form of comunal something?Sounds like DNA...doesn't it? Something profound and deep that replaces the hierarchy in the subcortex of people's brains...Forgive my penchant for analogies.>how would it work if it was not nodal its comunal somehow or connected>is it like 1 giant city or something i guess i dont understand the termsIt's like a SINGLE CONSCIOUSNESS at the same time...understanding that fragmentation into personalities is beneficial for the prosperity of the species...a complex topic...Have you heard of Peter Watts' "21-Second God"?
>>534792436>>534792436no but its a pretty simple idea you want the comunity to recognise in eachother themself and think fundimentally that we are eachotherand then form a society where we ourselfs as and eachother create something greaterthats fine but certain demands of reality for example we need stonedoes all of society just start getting stoneor does the guy who gets stone get fucked and we all just feel like shitbecause we he or here w/e is suffering for us how do we find the good stone getters and how do we decide what is just and good for ourselfs that we see in eachotheryou dont even need telepathy just a belif not even a belif system just the simple belief we are eachother
Domesticated humans, the cities are chalk full of them just like this thread.I imagine if livestock could speak they would sound a lot like a lot people here, they cant imagine life outside their chains and grow to love them.
>>534792621humans treating humans like shit because they cant imagine a life outside there chains and grow to love them your sentance is a fractal anon with increasing levels of malice for no aparant reason
>>534792360You see, I believe there are people who master their talents and skills to the point of exaggeration...they can be VERY good at what they do...and yet VERY bad towards others.Talent is good, but it's not everything.The DNA system I'm currently developing contains precisely those things that could serve as a foundation for developing talents in people...to a high degree...providing everything necessary. But I also want people to remember that talent DOES NOT DETERMINE PERSONAL QUALITY. What is more important to society than a person who brings value to society, but at the same time ignores the rules on which this society, as a foundation, allowed his personality to grow and develop talents...do you understand what I'm getting at?You might say this stifles the ambitions of hyper-talented individuals, but I wouldn't say that... greed is their undoing. Such a system already offers a lot... certainly more than hierarchy... after all, everyone within a non-hierarchy will be the equivalent of a multimillionaire in two or three generations... Which can't be said about the billions of people living in a hierarchy who starve, are homeless, have their health ruined, work and earn nothing, are demotivated... and close to suicide.
>>534792621These are sad conclusions, but...it is the truth.
>>534792577Well, hmm... this is, so to speak, the HIGHEST POINT OF ETHICAL EVOLUTION... I can only dream of such a level of societal awareness... It's something like Pluribus, shown recently...But in fact, I'm looking at it in a slightly opposite direction... after all, I'm covering the ideas of individualism... but I also believe that WITHOUT A UNIFIED CONSCIOUSNESS, true individualism cannot exist... only by understanding that we are a single whole can we begin our journey as individuals.I am in favor of developing individualism, rather than resigning myself to the role of one of the neurons in a single consciousness.Simply, in a social sense, the structure of a single consciousness would be very interesting and utopian...but in all other respects, it would stifle FREE WILL. In short, we partially need to use both of these structures, but in specific places.
>>534792764how is it sorted even if we can make anybody great at anything (we should make everybody great at everything) and then just have the core tenant that we are eachother ect but how do we decide what volenteer does not get the stone since everybody can get the stone who creates the system or changes the systemis it democratic? how do you stop the people who did not get the stone from voteing to exclude previous stone getters from getting more stone kek how do you stop the corruption of the voteing block by the individuals useing it to help others is it like just raw talent or expirience also because if you need a multi year project you have to asign a person or if somebody does something alot they will become exceptionalso how do we stop the first stone getter who is more than happy to keep getting stone from ruining his body getting stoneor do we just let him..
>>534793081the belief that we are eachother is abstracted from ourselfsits like many people one soul so the individual does not share experience but it is quite litterly you no hive mind neededjust a litteral belief that we actually are eachother and its game overyou have your perfect basis for your society in 3 wordsradical individualsim is infact encouraged because we become more of ourself as we express our individuality we are more us and more individual at the same time
>>534792707of course it was a britcuck that got offended.
>>534793177Look how I solve some of the problems you're talking about.- The foundation of such a society is an AUTONOMOUS PERSON.- Autonomy solves the problem of resource dependence by providing people with territories and resources to build independence. (Initially, such a society is formed by people with a fairly high degree of autonomy in the real world, compared to the majority of the population... no, they're not billionaires or millionaires... but they have resources worth approximately $150,000-$200,000 at their disposal.)- Thus, this creates a soft start for the community by establishing a single foundation through which these people conduct transactions with the outside world (like a covert joint-stock company)."They're building a base in a fairly isolated area, housing their lands, houses, and the infrastructure of their autonomous regions...""They help each other to expedite the acquisition of basic conditions for comfort and living, while saving on logistics and resource procurement through BULK PURCHASES..."--------------------Here I've briefly explained the scheme for starting a society and integrating it from the existing system into the new one... so I think you'll find this interesting, and I hope I've answered some of your questions.">is it democratic? Absolutely not.Democracy is equality in voting and the delegation of power... a system that contradicts its own tenets, since I personally don't believe in free voting. Voting can be rigged at any stage, from the formation of a vote to its expression and even its counting...Voting is being replaced by a PRE-PLANNED IDEOLOGICAL SYSTEM... where people simply sign up to pre-invented ideological norms. If they agree with them, at the same time... they are being tested to ensure they are NOT LYING when they agree to all these norms. It's like the Founding Fathers signing the Constitution.Autonomous society doesn't need democracy; it's an archaism...just like committees.
>>534793278Yes, that's right... that's a good understanding of the system I'm trying to create.A non-hierarchical society is like a single, non-controversial organism that has long understood its essence.And the autonomous ones are its individual participants, who express their individualistic traits, both for the good of society and especially for the good of THEMSELVES.When you're surrounded by people who think like you...you succeed much better and faster...that's all the conclusions. It's all very simple...although to understand this, you have to create such a complex system...but the fundamentals themselves are primitively simple...
>>534783171what brand of 0-C is that?
>>534793278"The total number of minds in the universe is one. In fact, consciousness is a singularity phasing within all beings."Erwin Shrödinger
unnatural
>>534783171It's literally impossible because Being itself functions vertically (hierarchically) and horizontally (relationality). Horizontal transactions create vertical structure even when they try not to>two people voluntarily being friends generates a relationship that transcends both of them>two people voluntarily exchanging goods and money creates an economy which transcends bothhigher-level being is generated via emergence of lower level horizontality
>>534795379That's how it was originally intended, anon.
>>534783707foids would never allow us to have this
>>534796560>two people voluntarily being friends generates a relationship that transcends both of themI agree...this is relevant to hierarchicality.At the same time, two non-hierarchs, within an artificial system with certain rules of ethics and relationships, ARE NOT FRIENDS OR ACQUAINTANCES...they are like-minded...they may share the same genetics, but they will not be in a vertical (hierarchical) relationship with each other.This system challenges natural patterns...and offers an alternative to THOSE who can handle it for realization.>two people voluntarily exchanging goods and money creates an economy which transcends bothAgain, I agree...these conclusions are relevant for a hierarchy.In a non-hierarchy, it would work like this:Either the economy doesn't exist, and all "exchanges" occur through distribution systems and quota-based warehouses. Or, as I said above, through a HYBRID ECONOMY system—distribution internally/trading exchange externally. No barter at all.---------------------Games of "bottom and top" for those who haven't had enough of playing at power.The non-hierarchical system was born from motives based on the principle, "What if you become number one out of 8 billion...what next?"And then..."I don't want to live among beasts who please me, over whom I have the power to do whatever I want...I lose interest and motivation in life."The highest point of a hierarch's development is when he wants to be neither a subordinate nor a master.
>>534799033Women are truly in a difficult situation due to the psychophilosophical gap between the sexes, which spans millions of years...it's literally a bottomless pit in understanding the processes.But it's not impossible. Women simply won't be able to influence the course of society—after all, society is pre-planned—I was talking about foolproof systems...there are many of them. And each of them adds stability to the Non-Hierarchy of Individualism. A woman living in such a system will have to take responsibility equally with a man; there will be no separation of the sexes. Everything a man can and does to fit into this system, including providing for himself autonomously, a woman does equally, and those who can't simply leave.Things like beauty, charisma, and psycho-manipulation won't work in such a society either...subtle hierarchies will disappear...as will all other types of hierarchies.Relationships will be of two types: asexuality or polyamory...at people's discretion, and this can also change at their whim...they are free to do so.However! - No stable couples...that's hierarchical.
