can this be explained? the three companies who make majority of devices that store information, seagte (mechanical HDD), western digital (sames) and sandisk (SSD maker) have turned insane profit margins in last 2 monthswho buys their stuff? what is being saved in it?
>>534795015Massive games, AI...
>>534795179right but the cost margins even with the shortages which are good for business for them... it doesnt change their earnings to magically justify these prices.this is like, dotcom adjacent now.
>>534795015Its a passive effect from AI.Ai needs HBM chips, lots of it and they‘re expensive to make.That sucks capacity from other RAM chip manufacturers. Now this also recently spilled over into SSD‘s
>>534795411>it doesnt change their earnings to magically justify these pricesstock prices don't reflect earnings. All the hubbub is data centers. Investors invest on hype.
>>534795015I was recently trying to play roller coaster tycoon but computers are no longer advanced enough to run win 95 games at full capacity. The only way to play it and many other simpler forms of programs in modern times is to set up a VPS, so I think their plan is to do this for all computers so soon you will have to download your new computer on a monthly basis instead of ever getting your hands on a windows 95 capable new computer hardware.l and tech company's are hoarding components in preparation for the switch.
>>534795584hype that will likely not return for many many years? alright. fair enough, it's just strange. I guess ironically it gets less safer as a "bet" over time, maybe its safe now? as long as the hype cycle is here? wow, real cool.
>>534795553yes but the valuations are assuming we're going to have a total AI takeover where you have datacenters every 10 miles across a country or some stupid shit. its just in delululand.
>>534795651The state of the HDD marketThe amount of data that the world generates is higher than ever now that not only people, but also machines generate well over 400 million terabytes of data every single day, according to estimates made in 2024. Most of that data ends up in data centers, so Gartner predicts that data center storage capacity requirements will increase at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 19.5% between 2024 and 2029 and will eventually reach 3.19 zettabytes (3.19 million PB, 3.19 billion TB). While a significant portion of that data will be stored on 3D NAND-based solid-state drives, the lion's share will reside on hard disk drives, as HDDs can still offer lower per-TB cost than even the cheapest NAND memory.Hard drives have been around for nearly 70 years, and over 220 companies have produced HDDs since they were introduced in 1956. In 2026, only three hard drive manufacturers — Seagate, Toshiba, and Western Digital — remain on the market, and their supply chains are largely integrated or consolidated, meaning that the industry has largely shrunk from where it used to be a decade ago. Nonetheless, the combination of per-TB cost, storage density, and storage performance that HDDs offer makes them competitive enough, particularly in AI and traditional data centers, which need to store plenty of data that must be accessed relatively quickly and therefore placed 'near online', or nearline.
>>534795623>I was recently trying to play roller coaster tycoon but computers are no longer advanced enough to run win 95 games at full capacity.dont know if this needs a multiplayer or just single player but I am pretty sure you could use a simple virtual machine like Oracles Virtual box installed onto Windows 10 and then you install Windows 98 Second edition on that virtual environmentthen install roller coaster into virtualized windows 98 and go from there
>>534795015>demand goes up 1000% because of data centers>can now sell product for 1000% more due to basic economics>"why is their profit margin going up???"gee I dunno, retard-sama
>>534795710I'm not buying it..they simply are not advanced enough to run anything made with code that is already working.
>>534795015Holy shit, Sandisk is now independent. No more WD Black. Very sad. Gladly I decided to stick to Samsung SSD.
>>534795584>thisgo for western digital. All they need is a good supply contract to one ofthe big AI companies and Government subsidy and BOOM! it's doubled. However, Ai (aka surveillance) is a massive waste of resources that will ultimately fail due to lack of affordability on a an average consumer. + Mass Survelliance will only prove what we already know, immagrants and low iq sub humans commit crime at a much higher rate. We all heard about england removing the facial recognition cameras.... same thing happened in district in Los Angles this past week.
>>534795734but they cant sell more SSDs if they cant even make more SSDs, due to memory chip shortageits easier for physical HDD though, those need just one small memory chip, a 64MB to 256MB cache RAMbut an SSD is entirely RAM
>>534795734>gee I dunno, retard-samaThen why are SSD's finally going back down in price?
>Functional personal console computer systems don't require updates.
>>534795763samsung also went upwards but they do also a lot more other stuff than just SSD drives or memory chips260 000 Korean dollars = about 200 USA dollars
>>534795015Sandisk got fucking parabolic man.
>>534795844>Current Nvidia drivers on not compatible with earlier versions of windows 10.FUCK ME!
>>534795910why would anyone use older than the last windows 10 version that came, anyway
>>534795015scam altmen prebought a bunch of solid state media and fucked the market up. it will adjust.
>>534795803>an SSD is entirely RAM
>>534795803They can't make more but they can sell what they're already making for 5x the price.A 1TB NVME drive is $200 when it was maybe $50 eighteen months ago
>>534796006SSD flash chips come from same place where RAM is manufacturedbut an mechanical drive platter can even come out of Vietnam
>>534795983I had a seagate hdd from 2011 fail and my OEM recovery usb was from 2015.... =[ it was so FAST before the decade of updates.
>>534795910I am considering reinventing a variation of analog telephone signal design and starting completely over with computer tech, since times have changed, a parented variation of dial signals could now piggyback on quantum time crystals instead of wires and nobody would ever be able to look at the signal without stopping it.
>>534796048>SSD flash chips come from same place where RAM is manufacturedthat doesn't mean SSD == RAM you retard
>>534795994>scam altmen prebought a bunch of solid state media and fucked the market up. it will adjust.Yeah, they have since defaulted or failed to meet the obligations of that deal.
>>534796064win 10, version 2015 and 2018 are both wast, the undeniable slowdown came after 2018
>>534795683It‘s certainly the future. Maybe in 200years, when we‘re all long gone, every larger appartment complex will have its own attached mini datacenter, it‘s not unlikely.I have a friend that works with a company that builds some special segments of chip factories. He‘s commuting on the construction site of one new factory for the 5th year now. These fabs are difficult to build and to get into operation.So bottomline is there‘s strong demand and you can‘t really just scale up supply that fast- so yeah valuation checks out.
>>534796088exactly, i'm waiting for the ssd glut to upgrade
>>534796085but this discussion doesnt have any significance on the actual issue
>>534796131>but this discussion doesnt have any significance on the actual issueit does, but you're too dumb to know why
>>534796162its you who are retarded since you cant realize why HDD manufacture can go unhindered but they cant make more SSDs
>>534796085The machines that create ram and ssd are very similar. Apparently you can just retool them. If i get 1000€ for a piece of ram i print on my wafer instead of 200€ for a ssd, i certainly decide to change production here.
>>534795411>it doesnt change their earnings to magically justify these prices.Yeah no fucking shit retard welcome to what everybody already knows for 10 years already.
>>534796278Ok show me all the stock you bought 10 years ago then
>>534796204>why HDD manufacture can go unhindered but they cant make more SSDsbecause they are two drastically different manufacturing processes you retarded nigger>>534796206yep and both NVME & DDR5/6 are in peak demand, hence the massive price explosions on both the product and public companies stock
There are two types of SSDs: flash-based and RAM-based. Storage devices based on NAND flash technology represent the majority of SSDs used today. However, NAND flash chips support only a finite number of program/erase cycles and cannot perform as well as RAM memory chips. A RAM-based SSD delivers better performance, while providing greater endurance.RAM-based SSDs typically use dynamic RAM (DRAM) chips, but sometimes they use static RAM chips. Both types of chips are Volatile, which means that they lose their data when the power is turned off. To preserve the data, it must be copied from the volatile memory to non-volatile memory upon instruction or when the drive is powered down. A RAM-based SSD usually includes batteries to preserve the data long enough for it to be copied to the non-volatile memory, in the event of an unplanned power outage.
>>534796451The future of RAM-based SSDsRAM-based devices once dominated the SSD industry. They were often used in financial, telecom, e-commerce and other markets where high latency or downtime were not tolerated. As flash-based SSDs became faster, cheaper and more reliable, they replaced RAM-based SSDs in most commercial and consumer systems.Despite the proliferation of flash drives, RAM-based SSDs have not disappeared altogether. Although more expensive than their flash-based or electromechanical counterparts, RAM-based drives still offer better performance than other types of storage media, making them well suited for write-intensive workloads. However, these types of SSDs are difficult to find.One company that continues to offer RAM-based storage is Atto, which introduced its SiliconDisk storage appliance in November 2020. The appliance uses DRAM memory to deliver under 600 nanoseconds of latency, with up to 6.4 million 4K input/output operations per second. The appliance also provides non-volatile memory express over Ethernet connectivity, offering four 100-gigabit Ethernet ports that can deliver 25 gigabytes per second of sustained throughput.Despite the superior performance of RAM-based SSDs, the storage industry has invested little effort in them, looking instead at other technologies that help bridge the gap between flash-based SSDs and traditional computer memory.Intel, for example, offers a line of storage class memory (SCM) devices -- the Intel Optane family -- that includes both SSDs and persistent memory modules. Like the SiliconDisk appliance, Optane devices represent a higher tier in the storage hierarchy, sitting between flash SSDs and traditional system memory. However, Optane devices also provide non-volatile storage, without relying on NAND flash technology.
>>534795015>explainedyesall these companies are closely held
>>534795015>seagte (mechanical HDD), western digital (sames) and sandisk (SSD maker) All made-in-Japan. lolWe're building USA.
>>534796419>because they are two drastically different manufacturing processes you retarded niggeryou are unable to explain what the exact difference is, maple syrup has clouded your head
>>534795803Retard there's a "memory chip shortage" specifically because these companies are selling their product to be used in data centres, holy fuck how fucking stupid are you, you dumb cunt
The processes to form NAND and DRAM are completely different. DRAM relies on creating non-leaking capacitors which are highly difficult to manufacture at such a small scale. NAND benefits from innovations in the CPU lithography space since it's essentially all transistor based. Key Differences: Volatility: NAND retains data when power is off (storage); RAM loses data (working memory). Speed: RAM is extremely fast ( latency), whereas NAND is slower and better for bulk data access. Use Case: RAM runs active operating systems and applications; NAND stores files, photos, and apps. Structure: NAND erases data in large blocks, while RAM can read/write data at the individual bit level. Cost/Density: NAND is cheaper per gigabyte and provides higher storage density, making it suitable for SSDs and USB drives. Wear: NAND flash wears out over time due to write cycles and requires wear-leveling techniques, while RAM does not wear out
incredible amounts of ignorance are on display in this thread, but there's a simple explanation for everything that's happened in the market since march 31 (39 days ago)every single degenerate gambler has gone all-in on leveragethat's it, it has nothing to do with business or products or AI or anythingonce it became completely obvious that trump is going to use the full power of the US presidency, including the war powers, to pump stocks to their absolute maximum possible level, "all-in" became the rational move for every gambler with access to money
>>534795015>>534795411Micron exited the consumer market/thread
>>534796109wast? Hind D? Metal Gear?
The implication is stark: even if DRAM vendors want to add capacity aggressively, they are physically gated by EUV tool availability. This is a supply constraint that operates on a multi-year timescale and cannot be resolved by throwing money at the problem. ASML’s production ramp is measured in single-digit percentage improvements per year, not the kind of step-function increase that would relieve the bottleneck.NAND faces no equivalent constraint. NAND fabs use DUV lithography (which is widely available from multiple suppliers) and advanced etch/deposition tools (which Lam, Applied, and others can produce at scale). The tools are expensive, but they are not scarce in the way EUV is scarce.
>>534796451>>534796478Oh fuck! the Ai bot showed up! act kool.
>>534796581don't you guys manufacturer in taiwan? -___-
SK Hynix is giving workers a bonus of USD$400,000 MINIMUM each due to the insane profits they've made
>>534796950>that's it, it has nothing to do with business or products or AI or anythingI mean, it has something to do with ai, because that's part of the hype
>>534796972*fastI have unfortunate system which tries to guess automatically the words I am writing and its tedious to keep track if it gave a wrong wordmodern software is such a scam
datacenter sales driven by AI bubble. consumer sales are only a small portion of their overall revenue.
>>534797434How is AI a bubble though? It's backed by actual spending from some of the largest companies in the world with established revenue streams that have nothing to do with AI, Microsoft, Meta, Google, and Amazon are collective spending up to $700 billion on capex this year alone, even if none of them make a cent of profit from their AI capex they still wouldn't go bankrupt as their large revenue streams have nothing to do with AIMeta spent $80 billion on the fucking Metaverse, that did nothing to impact their revenue because 98% of their revenue is from ads
>>534795015what are they going to pump next? Fucking hell every last stock I thought about buying is up 1000% I could have been a millionaire by now. And the shit I actually bought is down 50%
>>534797842what did you buy?
>>534797842>And the shit I actually bought is down 50%I know, it sucks rightI put money on pfizers back in the day (early 2023) and then it all crashed downits down to 25 from the 50 what is what in its highest
>>534797842Nothing stopping you buying them now, people have been saying they're overbought for months, people saying MU peaked at $450 last month and here we are a month later and it is at $757, the sectors earnings keep blowing away estimates
>>534797817What does Ai actually do when it comes to manufacturing? development in technologies? Ai is currently just regurgitating pre-existing systems developed by humans. the only thing it can do is complete the work more effeciently. There is a cap/peak to that. Especially with resource use/cost taken into consideration.You cannot ask Ai to create cold fusion.
>>534798342It can increase productivity so you don't need as many human workers allowing your company to reduce your workforce to reduce cost while keeping the same amount of productivity or even increasing it, it's already doing that with software companies
>>534795908Worst part is I got shaken out of sandisk in November and missed out on a 200% gain. Ah well, I’m in it now and got 50% gains if not more
>>534797817the spending *is* the bubble, there is no return on value and they've all rendered themselves FCF negative. no new products, no new productivity, unsustainable resource cost, etc. only absolute retards don't see the bubble. the bigger the bubble though, the more unpredictable the pop.
>>534795015Stupidity. Investors expect profit capability to exceed the literal brick wall of helium running out which right it's very bad in terms of supply. It's not even waiting to wreck the car has hit the wall the investor is currently being flung out the windshield.
>>534798342It badgers you to keep paperwork up to date that's what ours did. no it can't do anything itself.
>>534795015The economy is fake gay and completely pre programmed. It literally tells elites what kind if terrorism in what industry or geographic region needs to be done to explain price movements so the elites can keep the gravy train running. Its all circular fake economy. Money doesn't mean anything.
>>534798656>no return on valuethis, it's just near-unlimited quantities of VC money piling in to these stocks because they underwrite the hardware that AI companies need to make their v5.6 slop generator (that's incrementally worse than the last one)The fact that HDD manufacturers aren't building out more capacity should tell you that they see this demand spike as lasting less than 2 years, 3 years tops.
>>534798487So no innovation. Got it.
>>534798656That's patently untrue as earnings have shown, companies like Google for instance are reporting revenue from their AI, Anthropic is increasing its revenue faster than any company in history
They've already hit the ceiling in demand, they've got tons of chips sitting in warehouses rightnow. When this thing happens there's a lot of momentum behind it so it takes a while for the boomvestors to realize they're not going to get a golden goose out of it so they start selling shit off. I bet this stuff is going to become super cheap by next black friday.Or I could be completely wrong and the prices just keep going up forever somehow.They've also hit the power generation ceiling. We don't have enough power for all the hardware they have sitting in warehouses even if all civilian usage was reduced to zero.
>>534799001Companies like google have several irons in the fire. They bullshit investors to get more AI meme investment of course.
AI is literally killing computingTOTAL AI DEATH
>>534795015All storage is going into ai datacenters and no one is questioning why.Echelon 3.0.
>>534799163To me it's just a meme that makes videos and pictures that trick boomers and makes PC hardware more expensive. It's not making people's lives better just a few assholes richer.
>>534799001idk man... Maps/Earth, Docs, Sheets, Gmail Chrome, Cloud, etc. They don't even host domains any more.Most of their services are free because they sell meta data. How much money can you really make from that. It's governemnt subsidies keeping them afloat in the name of natinoal secuirty.
Thousands of data centers need a place to store the data. Hope this helps.
>>534799077If they reach foreign markets and begin making more data centers, then yes, more boom.
>>534795773This is to brainwash and isolate the AI unemployed.
>>534799471I dont really keep up with this, but it seems like they're just using AI to mimic the progression and inovation that alphabet did accomplishing the same work FASTER, but will cease once they reach the same point their competetors are at... Not neccesarily innovating NEW stuff.
>>534795015damn, glad i bought my 20tb seagate like a year ago.
>>534799904you still buy used CRM HDDs on ebay for cheap. Lightly used. Just check for bad sectors.
>>534799675i was wrong, they're not making a fourth of alphabetthey are making a ton, though they're far from profitable yet
>>534795411yeah the stock price is no longer the on-paper price. People are factoring in the next 5, 10 years of sales as well into the price, with the assumption that these companies will grow geometrically.There is also rampant speculation and a general excess of capital in the markets.
>>534795553datacenters that store training date, weights, weight deltas etc. also need loads of hard drives. So there is an increase in concrete demand for the drives too.
>>534795015People see green charts and numbers go up and it causes the snowball effect. Also these companies are industry giants that are going nowhere and that further compounds the investment because it makes it feel super secure and whatnot.
>>534799270You’d be surprised how good their algorithms are these days. You can easily create content that would be recommended to the interested audience. If you pay for google ads, they use AI to find the customers for your specific business
>SanDisk 30x its stock in one yearWhat the fuck manThis is some bitcoin shitWhy no one told me about this
>>534796048>both have chips and use electricityergo it's the fucking same yea
I bought one of these several years ago for under $100. Now inching close to seven hundred.
>>534795015mfw I bought shitcoins
>>534802019holy shit, also glad as well i bought my 4tb nvme (for 200bucks) and a 500gig regular ssd sata MLC drive for OS for around 100 a couple years ago ish.
>>534796581What is the 30 year bit flip data loss rate?
>>534802019Soxl must be really weighed down with some serious crap, why doesn't it get returns this good?
>>534799187Its the setup for the survelliance state.
>>534795411Dude software companies are some of the biggest in the world they absolutely do not have assets that back up their value
>>534803588I don't know but HDD parts are manufactured by the PlayStation guys (Sony HAMR laser, TDK's magnetic head, Nidec's spindle motor, Hoya's platter disk, etc). They will last as long as PlayStation.
>>534796581>>534797072I thought the vast majority of hard drives were made in Thailand?In 2011 a flood in Thailand caused global hard drive shortages.Or maybe they relocated the factories after the flood?
>>534795411>it doesnt change their earnings to magically justify these prices.Doesn't it?In a normal market competition keeps margins low.But when demand is higher than supply the margins can be many times higher.If it costs $100 to make a HDD and they normally sell it for $110 but today they can sell it for $200 that's a +900% increase in profit margins.So why shouldn't stocks also go +900%?The only insane part is the stock prices of their customers also go up even though they're the ones paying for the higher profit margins on hardware.
>>534795015they don't plebs having access to storage because if you download the internet that's really bad and might contain wrongthink. therefore the government needs to buy it all and use it to store every comment you've ever written and illegally search them because precognitive crime. they're obsessed
>>534795015>They all have terrible dividend yields down to a flat 0%, so profit margins is worthless to an investorCoke addicted and retarded finance bros that don’t know the fundamentals of investing and only got their jobs due to their finance uncles buying their silence for molesting them are shooting up all these datacenter growth stocks with pension fund money hoping to screw each other over by being the guy that pulls 2 seconds before the crash.I hope it happens soon, I want boomers to suffer for everything.
>>534795015>who buys their stuff?AI companies who burn through cash and make no profit.
>>534798487We are already seeing many examples of vibe coding absolutely fucking things up
>>534795411The government prints money, gives it to banks, and banks try to place it in ways that they don't lose value. This drives prices up like crazy. Valuation has little to do with it. It's mostly whatever headline or ticker makes it across a 70 year old cancer patient's desk.
