This woman says in this video clip that it's a cultural thing that people in the USA think of mathematical ability as an innate thing, that you either have a brain for math or you don't. I think the whole West has this mentality. Anyway, she says it was different in the Soviet Union. Math was seen as something everyone could learn because it was based on logic. And she says that when her mother helped her with her homework her mother told her that she didn't think math was taught properly in the USA. Her profile says she was born in the Soviet Union, so I assume the mother went to school there.https://youtube.com/shorts/Kvw_ZXftcmA?si=JETfHAwfkF6RftiSHere's a Chinese immigrant in Canada writing a book review, who was helping his child with school in Canada. Same thing there, he saw how the education was so much better in China a few decades ago compared to in the West now.https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/533690449/#533695166That book is supposed to teach you geometry with logic.Here's another book that's supposed to teach arithmetic with logic.https://archive.org/details/elementsofarithm00demorich
I think one of the reasons the West was more economically successful than the East in the 19th and 20th centuries, and possibly further back too, is that the West has been better at juicing their own lower classes. This might even go all the way back to when the Roman Empire was split into the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire. Interestingly most of the people within those two empires and the corresponding areas speak languages which evolved from Proto-Indo-European, and the languages of the Western Roman Empire have all become much simpler than the languages of the Eastern Roman Empire. Maybe this is due to a very longstanding culture of dumbing down the masses in the West.https://www.youtube.com/shorts/phNAsPwUp8Ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOJ4p8e7NQThis book talks about capitalism juicing the people.https://annas-archive.gl/md5/8340b7b55914a132215a8bbc4e91a7b2
>>534803733>Math was seen as something everyone could learn because it was based on logic
>>534805248Eloquent point you made there.
>>534805401I copied that from op>actually
>my college professor told me it's a SPURIOUS CORRELATION, so I stopped thinking about it
>>534805574Learn how to make a point.
nothing but fucking retards on this site
I was shit at maths until I got to college and had a good maths lecturer who taught us very well and even banned us from using calculators for the first 6 months.
>>534805401I think he’s trying to say that it makes sense for a bunch of white Europeans to believe this even if they are Russian. Logic ability maxes out for some people. For example, a large percentage of Basketball American believe that there is a “medication” inside prescription eyeglasses.
>>534803733Both are true.Math is just logic and you can learn.But some people have higher or lower IQs and this does impact their ability to learn it.
>>534803733>This woman says in this video clip that it's a cultural thing that people in the USA think of mathematical ability as an innate thing, that you either have a brain for math or you don't. I think the whole West has this mentality. Anyway, she says it was different in the Soviet Union. Math was seen as something everyone could learn because it was based on logic.I didn't learn it because our education system didn't provide incentive to do so. They just told me that if I spend loads of time learning that pretty much useless, most boring shit ever that I will get a decent job. 0 guarantees tho, just pinky promises.I preferred grinding tech-trees in World of Tanks rather than learning that shit and funnily enough, I'm in the better place than turbo-math nerd from my class is because he went for programming and didn't feel like neural networks (precursor to AI) would make him redundant.
>>534803733American school teaching is so decentralized and low quality that it's definitely a meme just to get kids to not day labor
>>534806055damn my dicks big fr fr
>>534803733I can count on one hand the times I needed to do math as an adult, but I can't count so that's kind of difficult.The only math you need to know is loan calculators and managing your finances.
>>534806245He made no argument, and neither did you.Logic is not innate, it's taught. They brainwash people in the West that logic is innate.Logic has gradually been removed from all teaching in school in the West since the 19th century, including teaching of math.School in the West has the purpose of dumbing down people. They deliberately disconnect dots in order to create a slave class. In communist countries on the contrary education connected those dots.Euclid, which is as much about logic as it is about geometry, was abolished in the West in the 1950s in the so-called Sputnik crisis, in order to make the West more competitive against the East. Why? Because they wanted to juice the people even harder.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_crisishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Education_Acthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mathhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_proofIn Russia they still teach a proof-based (logic based) geometry course that lasts for several years in public schools. What is geometry education in Western schools? A joke.
>>534803733>this woman says No thats bullshit. Anyone can learn math, thats just shit you tell hopeless retards who aren't good at it. Obviously some people will be better at it than others because people are not equal.
>>534806344While she did say that math is based on logic, I kind of misquoted and said that math WAS based on logic. Subtle but important difference. Mathematics might be based on logic, but the TEACHING of mathematics in the West is deliberately devoid of logic, while the teaching of mathematics in the Soviet Union was not. Logic is not innate. Having higher IQ might make you better at seeing how dots connect where those connections were deliberately removed, but you can also study logic and see those exact same connections.
>>534806708Niggers don't learn logic even when taught, is the issue. The American school system revolves around making sure niggers don't get held accountable for their failures, so they removed logic. They also removed everything else niggers couldn't keep up with, which ended up meaning students don't learn anything at all now. The entire population is being dragged down to the default position of niggers.
>>534806055They are just reading the talmud, and I'm not sure they even understand it.
>>534806922>Niggers don't learn logic even when taught, is the issue.How do you know? Nobody has been taught logic for a very long time in the West.
>>534807059The basics of it were taught as recently as 30 years ago.>how do you knowI lived through it, dummy. Why don't you tell me more about my own country?
>>534806601Well of course, you're a slave, slaves don't need an education, that's the whole point. Mission accomplished when the slaves think any kind of learning is pointless. Thanks for proving my point.
What happens in Sweden on December 13th? Why do you dress little girls up for sacrifice?
>>534807158No, logic has been gradually phased out of the education of the masses in the West ever since the introduction of the Prussian education system in the 19th century. The final nail in the coffin (or the cherry on top, depending on whose the perspective is) was when Euclid was abolished in the 1950s. This is a Western phenomenon, not an American phenomenon.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZp7eVJNJuw
>>534806844>Anyone can learn math>hopeless retards who aren't good at it.contradicting yourself
>>534807412>muh prussian educationYou are an antifa faggot. The reason why education in the west is so bad now is because of leftist teachers and government officials lowering standards and constantly invent new bullshit that is supposed to help but does the opposite.
>>534807524No, I am not. They can still learn it, it will just take them them longer to learn and longer to practice. Like two people in this thread and you want to be a contradictory cunt to both. Its almost as if you had no intention of having an honest and productive discussion in the first place, you fucking faggot.
>>534803733>>534804941For all their failings, the Soviets were very good in educating their population. They had good quality curricula. Now we're stuck with retarded social democracies that want everyone equally retarded.
>>534807648No. It has been a deliberate policy throughout the West ever since the inception of public schooling, and the whole purpose of public schooling, to stratify society by means of that same schooling, into the educated upper class and the dumbed down and enslaved lower class. They figured this out in Prussia in the 19th century after Napoleon won against Prussia in the battle at Jena. Many of the Prussian soldiers had studied the Trivium, and the government figured out that this caused them to think too much, and that to have an efficient war machine you needed people to take orders, not think. Same thing happened after the Soviet Union launched Sputnik, America feared lagging behind and then dumbed down their population even harder to make society more efficient, that's when Euclid was abolished.see the links I posted here >>534806708Picrel is from Lewis Carroll's book Euclid and His Modern Rivals, which is a defense of teaching Euclid's Elements in schools, which they were already considering suppressing when this book was written in the late 19th century. It would take until New Math in the 1950s before it was completely suppressed from the masses in the West. It was suppressed because it teaches you how to think logically, how to construct complex structures of thought and language from simpler elements. By simpler elements I mean intermediate conclusions in a chain of reasoning.Chatgpt explains the last sentence as>We’re interested in the doing, not the thing done.In other words geometry is the matter dealt with in Elements, but the primary thing it teaches is the reasoning process.https://archive.org/details/euclidhismodernr00carrThe book is written as a play, and the dialogue there is between a mathematician named Minos and Euclid's ghost.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_and_His_Modern_Rivals
>>534808139learn basic logic
https://youtu.be/upFxaYnrs-A&t=560
>>534808318Engage me properly.
>>534808571Why are you spreading disinformation?
>>534808712When you make actual arguments rather than shitposts I will.
>>534809002What disinformation, shithead?
>Why yes I'm a 4chan user, how could you tell?Fuck all the subhumans on this site, I hope you're all euthanized.
great discussion, very deep, very intelligent, everyone learned a lot, so rewarding
>>534808281>No. It has been a deliberate policy throughout the West ever since the inception of public schooling>Stratify society by teaching the peasants to readLiteracy was universal in the prussian army at a time when in the rest of Europe just being able to read was an officer's greatest value. At the same time they introduced Auftragstaktik, entrusting command responsibility to lower officers and NCOs, i.e. men from lower classes.Not only does the prussian education system have a documented history of doing the opposite of what you claim, but it also seems that wasn't an accident.
>>534803733The Soviet Union was perhaps the original globohomo state For geopolitical and military strategy reasons, the Soviets needed to integrate all kinds of racial minorities with the white(ish) eastern european slavs that inhabited St. Petersburg and Moscow. Chechens, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Siberians, even Ainu all had to march to the beat of a Soviet drum so it was useful propaganda to make citizens believe all citizens had equal potential. The truth is anyone who looks around the world can see there are many civilizations that at an institutional level there are civilizations that prioritize feelings (honor cultures - I did what I had to so I could advance my position, I do not care if it is good or bad) over logic (guilt cultures - I did a bad thing logically therefore I should feel guilty). It seems to be inversely correlated with the amount of melanin in a population or whether or not they live in a backwater asiatic shithole of some kind.
>>534803733Why would the jew run school teach the future taxcattle how to do math? That doesn't make any sense.
>>534811677Many Prussian soldiers had studied the Trivium before joining the army without any school, before the Prussian education system. After the introduction of the Prussian education system no one had time or energy to study the Trivium, and they learned just absolute basic literacy in school, the alphabet and not much more, dragged out over a period of years, to make sure they never had a chance to acquire an actual education on their own.
>>534811820You know absolute squat about logic. Thanks for proving my point.
>>534811971The topic of the thread is a difference between the West and the East in how math ability and math learning are viewed. I don't see that your post addresses that at all.
>>534803733Yep. The two best kinds of math books are mid-twentieth-century Soviet math books and late-nineteenth-century British & American math books. But by the second half of the twentieth century, American math books, especially public-school textbooks (coincidentally published by Ghislaine Maxwell's father), became absolute shit, probably on purpose, despite our supposed fear of being outstripped by our commie rivals.
>>534803733Math education was very very good in the Soviet Union (and China copied the methods).
>>534813014>despite*due to
>>534804941>Maybe this is due to a very longstanding culture of dumbing down the masses in the West.It's definitely due to this. >>534806426>American school teaching is so decentralizedConsidering the top-down agenda imposed on us by overlords with evil intent, the better route might be the ultimate decentralization: homeschooling. Back in colonial times, everyone in America was homeschooled and the literacy rate was >99%. Today we have a literacy rate (literacy being interpreted very generously) of about 70%. I used to tutor adult illiterates. Half of them had high-school diplomas but could not read at a first-grade level.
How about I scoop you up and drop you in the middle of south chicago and you can see how well niggers learn logic and reason you dumb fucking finngolian
>>534812342Studied it how? Orally?
>>534806708>in the so-called Sputnik crisis, in order to make the West more competitive against the East. Why? Because they wanted to juice the people even harder.Ironically, the New Math® was supposed to be more logical, but it was just random, disconnected slop and badly-taught set theory in place of developing arithmetical competence. See Morris Kline's classic attack on the New Math® Why Johnnie Can't Add. Between the whole-word, look-say reading method and the New Math®, our overlords fucked over four generations of American students. And there's no sign of it stopping until people take matters into their own hands.
>>534808281>Many of the Prussian soldiers had studied the Trivium, and the government figured out that this caused them to think too muchAnd we can't have that now, can we?
>>534803733I have an infinitely easier time deducing what someone’s viewpoint is based on 2 presuppositions than I do trying to simplify fractions. The information is simply irrelevant to the lower 85% of mankind for pragmatic reasons that don’t have to imply people are stupid. >inb4 Calmly understand that what ever point you are trying to make has nothing to do with truth in a constructive form, you’re using epistemology and in particular how well it’s utilized mathematically to gauge the intelligence of mankind. If you’re seriously going to dick wave just because you’re a TI-82, I’m sorry. I just pull out a calculator. I’m never going to need to extrapolate the Sin out in the wild without a phone.
>>534813957my oldest is in grade 6 and has plenty of "peers" that struggle to communicate at all, let alone read.it's heartbreaking seeing her assignments on the wall, segregated from her friends' assignements by literal retard scratches from a child that should be in some kind of mental facility rather than a classroom.
>>534811677We degrade by stages. Hell, when my father was in 8th grade at an American public school in the 1940s, he studied Latin, German, and calculus. Find me an American public middle school these days that still does that.
>>534813098Well, we claimed we wanted to close the gap between our students and theirs, but we "accidentally" did the opposite.
>>534813957They figured out that a cheap and effective way to dumb people down is you just take the stuff of level 4 and skip levels 1, 2 and 3. Turns out skipping the foundation is a good way to make sure nobody connects the dots.
>>534814550This. Set theory is necessary for higher mathematics, especially for real analysis (also known as advanced calculus). Teaching random bits and pieces of it to 7-year-olds without even explaining why they're studying this stuff is a guaranteed recipe for confusion, boredom and failure.
>>534814107The trivium (a deep, systematic study of grammar, logic, and rhetoric) was the basis of Western education for over a thousand years. It continued in an increasingly diluted form until the middle of the 20th century, when it was replaced by more "progressive" methods of "education" for hoi polloi. It survives today only in very elite private schools. Recently the homeschooling movement has tried to revive it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triviumhttps://youtu.be/J-00ouej34ghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_education_movementhttps://classicalconversations.com/blog/what-is-the-triviumThe Great Tradition edited by Richard GambleHere's the talk by Dorothy Sayers that sparked interest in the trivium among homeschoolers:https://archive.org/details/SayersHere's John Taylor Gatto's breakdown of what you'll find still being taught only in the very elite private schools:https://youtu.be/VgNOellI03whttps://youtu.be/obFPLRuP41wHere's what we've been given instead:https://cardinalinstitute.com/the-prussian-model-of-education-in-the-us-should-be-reexaminedhttps://youtu.be/LnWbKQcElGkHere's where the globalist elite go to school:https://youtu.be/A0OBhoWBctwHere's an outstanding textbook on the trivium method:https://archive.org/details/the-trivium-the-liberal-arts-of-logic-grammar-and-rhetoric-sister-miriam-josephMortimer Adler, the man who inspired Sister Miriam, wrote the book on how to read a book:https://archive.org/details/howtoreadabook1972editionHere's a pop book about the trivium for the general public:Trivium: The Classical Liberal Arts of Grammar, Logic, & Rhetoric by John Michell, et al.Here's a high-school textbook on traditional Aristotelian logic designed specifically as part of the trivium program:Logic As A Liberal Art by R. E. HouserHere's a good essay on the fate of the humanities in our modern "education" system:https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/not-defend-humanities
>>534806708You might be too stupid and idealistic to understand his point unfortunately
All the way from elementary school till high school, I never really enjoyed math. I wasn't exactly bad at it, but it wasn't something that I got excited about, unlike, say, history or art.Then when I got to college and took a course on sociology, I remember I heard a professor saying that the Humanities and Social Sciences are for people who are good at reading and understanding human phenomena, but not at understanding numbers. I think the idea of being classified as a person who's not good at understanding numbers offended me so much that I decided to switch majors from Philosophy to Mechanical Engineering. Then from there I just got on the grind to learn, learn, and learn math. I had problems focusing on grinding math problems, so I got a psychiatrist to give me ADHD meds so I could grind math problems. Ultimately, despite not being a person who's naturally good at math or particularly strong in terms of visuo-spatial ability, I got through my Mechanical Engineering degree (including math up to differential equations) just because I kept studying while high on Ritalin.I have an average IQ (105). I usually feel kind of retarded when I talk to myself. Most people see me as slow, dull-witted, forgetful, and somewhat poor in terms of motor skills. Even then, I reckon I can work with numbers just fine.
>>534814891The grammar studied in the medieval trivium was general grammar, which is basically semiotics with a substrate of metaphysics, as opposed to special grammar, which is what we think of today when we hear or read the word "grammar". The closest we might get to general grammar today would be to study linguistics and Latin alongside Aristotelian metaphysics; for instance, something like the following:The Study of Language by George Yulehttps://sharifling.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/the-study-of-language-george-yule.pdfAnalyzing Grammar by Paul Kroegerhttps://anekawarnapendidikan.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/analyzing-grammar-by-paul-r-kroeger.pdfPrinciples of General Grammar by J. Roemerhttps://archive.org/details/principlesgener00roemgoogThe Philosophy of Grammar by Otto Jespersenhttps://archive.org/details/philosophyofgram0000jespA Higher English Grammar by Alexander Bainhttps://archive.org/details/higherenglishgra00bainrichAn Introduction to English Grammar by Greenbaum & Nelsonhttps://archive.org/details/AnIntroductionToEnglishGrammerCopy Collar & Daniell's First-Year Latinhttps://archive.org/details/collardaniellsfi00collrichLingua Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana https://archive.org/details/lingua-latina-oerberg-familia-romana-libFirst Steps in Anglo-Saxonhttps://archive.org/details/firststepsinang00sweegoogA History of the English Language by Baugh & CableThe Mother Tongue by Lancelot HogbenIndo-European Philology: Historical and Comparative by W. B. Lockwoodhttps://youtu.be/qxOJ4p8e7NQ https://archive.org/details/hermesorphilosop00harrhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_grammarhttps://iep.utm.edu/aristotle-metaphysics/https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/https://iep.utm.edu/aristotle-logic/#H2https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-categories/https://circeinstitute.org/blog/blog-metaphysics-grammar/Substance and Essence in Aristotle by Charlotte Witt
>>534815009I wouldn't neglect special grammar and composition, though. Since public schools no longer teach people how to write, it might be worthwhile recommending some books and videos on composition and style:Writing and Thinking by Foerster & Steadmanhttps://archive.org/details/writingthinkingh0000norm Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace by Joseph M. WilliamsRhetorical Grammar by Martha Kolln Pen and Ink by Guy N. Pocockhttps://archive.org/details/bwb_KU-190-994Style: The Art of Writing by F. L. Lucashttps://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.474163Style: An Anti-Textbook by Richard A. LanhamThe Elements of Eloquence by Mark Forsythhttps://youtu.be/ulhrXgpjveAhttps://archive.org/details/englishcompositi01bainhttps://archive.org/details/acollegemanualr00baldgooghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentencehttps://youtu.be/-BiwmpPDCpkhttps://youtu.be/hhVic18H4u4https://youtu.be/YYH6vfNiqxwhttps://youtu.be/RQL-2LHweKYhttps://youtu.be/A74sdHiIgnIhttps://youtu.be/6OK2yMbV-jUhttps://youtu.be/j5lAigr4_m0https://youtu.be/N4o5Y7ZRckwhttps://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.209854The last book listed above (the original unabridged edition by Graves & Hodge) contains a superb short history of English prose style. I also recommend studying poetry in depth, as this forces you to pay extremely close attention to words, their associations and effects, a habit that will later feed into rhetoric. Prosody manuals by actual poets should be your texts, plus a good anthology of great poems throughout the centuries (I like Immortal Poems of the English Language edited by Oscar Williams).Rules for the Dance: A Handbook for Writing andReading Metrical Verse by Mary OliverThe Poem's Heartbeat: A Manual of Prosody by Alfred CornPoetic Meter and Poetic Form by Paul Fussell https://archive.org/details/em-38057-poetic-meter-and-poetic-formThe Poet and the Poem by Judson Jeromehttps://youtu.be/MkvhZ6veqNAhttps://youtu.be/-18xZIr97KI
>>534803733My ex-gf's dad said something similar. Back in the day people struggled with math, but failing the class was unheard of. John Gatto was right about everything. I saw some zoomer on youtube complaing about growing up with common core. I've found 90% of people i grew up with in public school to be evil, narcissistic thieves only out to milk their parents for as much as they can and destroy lives for giggles. American k-12 is genocide. The fucking assholes walking around today aren't human.
>>534815133For logic, start with some general and non-technical books like Lionel Ruby's Logic: An Introduction (which is the best general introduction to logic I've seen) and Stephen Naylor Thomas's Practical Reasoning in Natural Language (which drills students until they can analyze natural-language arguments in their sleep). After that, it's time for traditional Aristotelian logic, which is what the trivium is based on. The best introduction to this is Peter Kreeft's Socratic Logic. It's a textbook designed for high-school students. If you want to get really deep into it, there's H. W. B. Joseph's Introduction to Logic and of course Aristotle's Organon.https://archive.org/details/peter-kreeft-socratic-logichttps://archive.org/details/introductiontolo00josehttps://archive.org/details/organoncooke01arisuofthttps://archive.org/details/organoncooke02arisuoftAfter that, you can delve into modern formal deductive logic with Patrick Suppes's First Course in Mathematical Logic and Nicholas J. J. Smith's Logic: The Laws of Truth. There's also this free online textbook:https://forallx.openlogicproject.org/After that, you can look into informal logic. The author to read on this subject is Douglas Walton. He's written many books on it.This is the best book I've seen on what teachers nowadays like to call critical thinking:Creative and Critical Thinking by W. Edgar Moorehttps://vdoc.pub/download/creative-and-critical-thinking-3g9jb3fp8epg It's basically a primer on inductive reasoning.Here are two excellent 19th-century textbooks on deductive and inductive logic:https://archive.org/details/logicdeductivein00bain_0https://archive.org/details/logicdeductivean00readuoftIn addition to the above, you should also study abductive reasoning and heuristics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abductive_reasoninghttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristichttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic_(psychology)
>>534814920His "argument" is circular.me: the West thinks math ability is innate, some have it some don't, the East thinks all people can become good at mathhim: it makes sense to think you either have it or you don't, because some people just don'tYou likewise made no argument. Go learn logic.
>>534815305>After that, you can look into informal logic. The author to read on this subject is Douglas Walton. He's written many books on it.What I like about Walton is that he doesn't claim that informal fallacies are always fallacies. He takes care to note the circumstances under which certain "fallacies" (such as ad hominem or the slippery slope) might actually be legitimate methods of critique. He's the only author I've read who does this.>you should also study abductive reasoning and heuristicsWalton has also written a book on abductive reasoning, which I haven't read yet. C. S. Peirce, the greatest philosopher the U.S. has ever produced, coined the philosophical term "abduction" (although its current definition has changed slightly) and made it a key component in his system. For heuristics, the authors to read are Georg Polya (who coined the term) and Gerd Gigerenzer.Gut Feelings: The Intelligence of the Unconscious by Gerd Gigerenzer Heuristics: The Foundations of Adaptive Behavior edited by Gerd GigerenzerMathematics and Plausible Reasoning (in two volumes) by Georg Polya The last book is a classic but requires some mathematical knowledge to fully appreciate. Polya wrote a more popular book called How To Solve It.https://miro.com/strategic-planning/what-is-ooda-loop/
>>534815600To transition from logic to rhetoric, study the Socratic elenchus and dialectic: https://therightquestions.co/tag/elenchus-method/https://archive.org/details/dialectic0000adle Aristotle's Dialectic: Topics, Sophistical Refutations, and Related Texts translated by C. D. C. ReeveDialectics: A Classical Approach to Inquiry by Nicholas Rescher Both elenchus and dialectic are methods of inquiry that use a question-and-answer format to test for inconsistency, but each has a different use and M.O. Elenchus is used solely for refutation. It begins by you asking your opponent for a definition of the subject under discussion and then peppering him with a series of yes-or-no questions carefully framed so as to make him assent and lead him step by step into contradicting himself, thereby (purportedly) refuting his original claim and demonstrating that he doesn't know what he's talking about. It does not attempt to make positive contributions, especially when combined with Socrates' scathing irony. In the early dialogues of Plato, Socrates simply demolishes his interlocutor, makes a few sarcastic remarks, and departs. That is elenchus. In the later dialogues, however, Socrates is less scathing and more constructive, using dialectic to help his friends develop their ideas into something that can withstand rigorous scrutiny. Dialectic is a kinder, gentler Q&A, two-way instead of one-way, with open-ended questions that allow for subtlety and nuance in reply. For our purposes, elenchus, if it is used at all, is used on (not-so-bright) enemies to refute their arguments and make them look foolish in public, while dialectic is used in private with (intelligent) allies to help us clarify our positions and refine our arguments. Dialectic, by the way, is the only antidote to this new man-made horror:https://youtu.be/_xHY4rfNRUAIf necessary, you can try to simulate dialectic by yourself:https://youtu.be/m47HazDm4Ekhttps://youtu.be/Fl5S5s8oSxM
>>534803733>it was different in the Soviet Union. Math was seen as something everyone could learnMakes sense why it was such shit hole. They had even more affirmative action then the US
>>534815167https://www.zhibit.org/diemythographer/die-mythographer-die/occasional-letter-number-one-2006
>>534815681Finally, there's rhetoric, defined by Aristotle as "the faculty of discovering all available means of persuasion in any given case".The History and Theory of Rhetoric: An Introduction (1st edition) by James A. Herrick is a decent historical survey of the subject.https://archive.org/details/ancientrhetoricp00baldrichhttps://archive.org/details/medievalrhetoric0000char_n9f2https://archive.org/details/principlesofargu031882mbphttps://youtu.be/rl9WxD10WLsHere's an excellent modern rhetoric textbook based on classical principles:https://archive.org/details/classical-rhetoric-for-the-modern-student/A pdf for a beginner's version of Aristotle's Rhetoric:https://share.google/XbI3jCRVivWJUDVmfA series of short videos giving you a guided tour of Aristotle's Rhetoric:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFbFmLLP3FsLY0xVEg8pMkvX8qwFHGtwCA translation of Aristotle's Rhetoric:https://archive.org/details/artofrhetoric00arisuoftThe Rhetorica ad Herennium, formerly attributed to Cicero but probably not by him:https://archive.org/details/adcherenniumdera00capluoftFor a really deep dive, there's Quintilian's Institutes of Oratory (four volumes in the Loeb Classical Library), which gives long, precise descriptions of how upper-class Roman youths were trained to become effective speakers and writers.https://youtu.be/sVxKFyVAdNETo bring your rhetorical education up to date, you might want to study books on propaganda and marketing. Edward Bernays, the father of public relations and modern advertising, wrote two short books on these subjects: Propaganda and Crystalizing Public Opinion. Robert Cialdini's book Influence is an update of Bernays. Finally, for a very deep and scholarly investigation there's Jacques Ellul's Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes.A key concept in modern rhetorical theory is identification, which underpins almost all propaganda, psyops, and advertising:https://youtu.be/zdbaV2MVhBM
>>534815681>>534815600>>534815305somehow not smart enough to understand no one's reading any of this shit
>>534815783From a YouTube comment:>During Shakespeare’s era, the Classical Education of the Greeks and Romans had a renaissance. Writing was based on the trivium and had two stages. In Stage One the student would choose an exemplary model and analyze it by parsing it grammatically for correctness, then logically for arguments/topics of invention, and then rhetorically to identify its tropes and figures, as well as other things such as overall structure or matters of rhythm and euphony. Stage Two involved the practice of Imitation. These imitative exercises consisted either of copying the form of the original but supplying new content, or of copying the content of the original but supplying a new form. There were many different techniques employed (the most common being the varying of sentences) and they included a practice called Metaphrasis - the ‘translating’ from one genre to another - a speech to a poem, etc. Students kept commonplace books to record their favorites. Models of exemplary writing were often taken from famous Greek and Roman authors, such as Plutarch. I believe that, thanks to Desiderius Erasmus, Shakespeare would have had this classical training in writing. He would have been reading Sir Thomas North's translation of Plutarch as a model of excellence, and been practising his progymnasmata exercises, collecting them in his commonplace book. The final Form in this education is Genesis - the creation of your own work, which would have included examples of exercises a student had worked on during his education.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_imitatiohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonplace_bookhttps://youtu.be/2HCmv6aDYbQhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progymnasmatahttps://www.classicalwriting.com/Progym.htmhttps://youtu.be/0f0N-DbtotIhttps://youtu.be/1pzXg-eqGW0https://youtu.be/B5ZijxcKzN8https://youtu.be/Qi58tonJlfEProgymnasmata: Greek Textbooks of Prose Composition and Rhetoric translated by George A. Kennedy
>>534815009Instead of defining something using your own words, you've posted links to 20 different books. Now by the time I'm done reading I'll have forgotten how full of shit you were, and probably forgotten the post entirely. I'll do one better. Instead of posting 20 links, I'm assigning you to find 20 links that prove yourself wrong. Bonus points if they're all in an unreadable format.
>>534815853Some posters have thanked me and bookmarked my posts. If this helps even one person, I'll keep posting.
>>534815910Your education doesn't end with the study of grammar, logic, and rhetoric. The trivium should lead to the study of mathematics, philosophy, history, and literature.Start where all the greats did until comparatively recently. For over two millennia, every educated person learned abstract deductive reasoning by studying Euclid.https://youtu.be/IaXRFmtgMUU >I have given up newspapers in exchange for Tacitus and Thucydides, for Newton and Euclid, and I find myself much the happier. - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams 21 January 1812https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2629860.0041.104/--lincoln-euclid-and-the-satisfaction-of-success?rgn=main;view=fulltext?https://youtu.be/A-MxQJRXGy0Far from being obsolete, Euclidean diagrammatic reasoning is more natural than, and for some purposes might even be superior to, the algebraic forms of logic taught in universities today:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050920303409The Thirteen Books of Euclid's Elementshttps://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.126332https://youtu.be/BfQzIi9HZA4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC65BA76F7142E9DThe Four Pillars of Geometry by John Stillwellhttps://youtu.be/OmJ-4B-mS-Yhttps://youtu.be/UhX1ouUjDHEHere's a book on how non-STEM people can benefit from studying mathematics:How Not To Be Wrong: The Power of Mathematical Thinking by Jordan Ellenberg
>>534816124Here's a superb history of applied mathematics:https://archive.org/details/klinemathematicsandthephysicalworldHere are some very popular and rigorous 19th-century textbooks that are still being used in some countries:https://archive.org/details/academicarithmet00wellrichhttps://archive.org/details/elementaryalgebr00hallhttps://archive.org/details/advancedcoursein0000webshttps://archive.org/details/elementarytrigon00hallhttps://archive.org/details/elementsofcoordi00loneHere's a superb set of Soviet textbooks written for high-school students and homeschoolers to learn the underlying concepts of precalculus math, with challenging problems that require some ingenuity to solve:https://archive.org/details/algebra_gelfandhttps://dokumen.pub/qdownload/geometry-1nbsped-1071602977-9781071602973.htmlhttps://archive.org/details/GelfandSaulTrigonometryhttps://z-library.sk/book/Bj4KaELMR3/functions-and-graphs.htmlhttps://archive.org/details/I.M.GelfandE.G.GlagolevaA.A.Kirilovhttps://archive.org/details/gelfand-et-al-sequences-combinations-limits-1969Here's an excellent modern calculus textbook suitable for self-study:Modern Calculus and Analytic Geometry by R. A. Silvermanhttps://z-library.sk/book/0vp7k6qVjr/modern-calculus-and-analytic-geometry.html
>>534815752Their math teaching was different. Our math is deliberately hollowed out, dots are deliberately disconnected. That's not math itself being hard. Anything is hard if you get it in a scrambled form or at a level that's too high. If I show you a text in Greek and you can't read it, that's not because Greek is hard, it's because you haven't studied Greek. Checking the engine oil level on your car is really hard if you don't know where and how you check it. The reason they were poorer isn't that they had affirmative action, it's that the West juiced their population harder which makes for a more efficient societal machine. You got it backwards.
>>534816240>Here's a superb set of Soviet textbooks written for high-school students and homeschoolers to learn the underlying concepts of precalculus mathBy the way, these introductory schoolbooks were written by one of the greatest mathematicians of the 20th century. Who's writing OUR schoolbooks?(I recall hearing about Glenn Seaborg writing a chemistry textbook for high-school students, but the school boards rejected it because it didn't follow their "guidelines" for dumbing things down.)
>>534816466This.
>>534816240If you want to go to beyond calculus, you'll be getting into analysis and pure math, which is all about logically proving the taken-for-granted mathematical procedures themselves. This will require you to be creative in a very rigorous way.https://archive.org/details/introductiontoma00russuofthttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKBRHzyVsSQOCoRTPgtYDQ_3U4KHNqeSahttps://archive.org/details/charles-c.-pinter-2014-a-book-of-set-theoryMathematical Proofs by Chartrand, Polimeni, & Zhang https://archive.org/details/book-of-proof-third-edition-2018-richard-hammackhttps://youtu.be/V5tUc-J124shttps://youtu.be/nGEUOLCYbnghttps://www.scribd.com/document/177508203/Burkill-a-First-Course-in-Mathematical-Analysishttps://oceanofpdf.com/genres/mathematics/pdf-advanced-calculus-by-angus-e-taylor-downloadReal Analysis by Jay Cummingshttps://youtu.be/PgrRt9PpaxIhttps://youtu.be/tFsjz0yEQdchttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL04BA7A9EB907EDAF Elementary Classical Analysis by Marsden & Hoffmanhttps://archive.org/details/WhatIsMathematicshttps://youtu.be/-fq6jhILiPwhttps://youtu.be/TdeKw0jbTdcWhat you DON'T want from the study of higher mathematics is mere rote learning for memorizing formulas that you mindlessly apply to contrived problems on exams. Some memorization and lots of practice will be necessary for developing your skills and intuition, but the ultimate goal is to understand, fully and deeply, what you are doing and why you are doing it. Mathematics, like logic, should teach you how to reason deductively and think systematically about things. It is, ultimately, a creative art/science.https://youtu.be/PiG8NM2aXI8https://youtu.be/upFxaYnrs-A
>>534816788One glaring omission from almost all public high-school curricula is probability and statistics. Every high school has calculus classes, but I've never seen a high school that teaches P&S. How odd. P&S would be far more useful than calculus for most people, and it's easier to teach. It is an indispensable tool of critical thinking--which is undoubtedly why it isn't taught in public schools.Here are some good introductory books that don't require a lot of math:How To Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huffhttps://archive.org/details/how-to-lie-with-statistics-darrell-huffAn Elementary Introduction to the Theory of Probability by Gnedenko & Khinchinhttps://archive.org/details/gnedenko-khinchin-an-elementary-introduction-to-the-theory-of-probabilityBasic Statistics (revised & enlarged edition) by George Simpson & Fritz Kafkahttps://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.148535Calculated Risks: How to Know When Numbers Deceive You by Gerd GigerenzerIntuitive Biostatistics by Harvey MotulskyHere's an excellent introduction to combinatorics, a branch of mathematics that informs P&S as well as CS:Mathematics of Choice by Ivan Nivenhttps://archive.org/details/math-of-choicehttp://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/focs/ch04.pdfSome basic knowledge of finite and discrete mathematics will inform combinatorics, which in turn will inform P&S:Finite Mathematics by Karl J. SmithIntroduction to Discrete Mathematics by Robert J. McElieceHere are some more advanced P&S books and courses that require a bit more math:Basic Concepts of Probability and Statistics by Hodges & LehmannAn Introduction to the Theory of Probability and Its Applications (in two volumes) by William Fellerhttps://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.5666https://archive.org/details/introduction-to-probability-second-edition-joseph-k.-blitzstein-jessica-hwang-z-libraryhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2SOU6wwxB0uwwH80KTQ6ht66KWxbzTIo
Begin your study of philosophy with Plato and Aristotle.https://archive.org/details/plato-the-last-days-of-socrates-the-apology-crito-phaedo-platohttps://archive.org/details/gregory-vlastos-the-philosophy-of-socrates-a-collection-of-critical-essayshttps://archive.org/details/the-republic-joe-sachshttps://archive.org/details/platos-republic-a-critical-guidehttps://archive.org/details/theaetetusofplat00platrichhttps://archive.org/details/plato-r.-e.-allen-the-dialogues-of-platos-parmenidesPlato's Gorgias and Phaedrus translated by J. H. Nichols Jr.https://archive.org/details/aristotle-desire-to-understand-learhttps://archive.org/details/cambridge-companions-to-philosophy-jonathan-barnes-the-cambridge-companion-to-aristotle-cambridge/https://archive.org/details/AristotlesNicomacheanEthicshttps://archive.org/details/AristotlePoliticsSachs.numTwo very different translations (and interpretations) of Aristotle's metaphysics:https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.185284https://archive.org/details/aristotles-metaphysics-sachs_202306A History of Ancient Philosophy (4 vols) by Giovanni Reale is a brilliant, highly original survey of ancient Greek philosophy:https://archive.org/details/historyofancient02real/ Guide to Philosophy by C. E. M. Joad is the best introduction to metaphysics and epistemology I've read:https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.507125https://archive.org/details/bwb_P9-CAT-703The Great Conversation by Melchert & MorrowBacon to Kant: An Introduction to Modern Philosophy by Garrett ThomsonThe Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science by E. A. BurttThinking It Through by K. A. Appiah https://fivebooks.com/best-books/kant/#book-705https://richardschutte.medium.com/the-triadic-of-reason-b17f3b2b9606https://youtu.be/-oQL0sB3lqYhttps://youtu.be/6RZr3dtvqAEhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhP9EhPApKE8B-g03RivIMt7llh1cyEGVhttps://www.historyofphilosophy.net/all-episodes
>>534815167I switched from private to public at a young age. i was ahead of my peers, but quickly fell behind. it had to be the environment in my case. i went to school in a county with one of the best public education systems in the country. top ten for sure. private school beats the best public education.
>>534817096I could easily fill 30 posts just listing history books, but I'll limit myself to these 27 books (some of which are multi-volume) plus three essays. I concentrate mainly on ancient and modern history, choosing books as much for their literary quality as for their scholarship and insight. That's enough reading to keep you busy for a few years.What Is History? by E. H. CarrThe Rise of the West by William McNeillhttps://archive.org/details/historiesofherod00herohttps://archive.org/details/the-peloponnesian-war-oxford-university-press.-thucydides-martin-hammond-p.-j.-rhodes-2009_202504Hellenica and The Anabasis by XenophonThe Histories by Polybius History of Rome by LivyConspiracy of Catiline and The Jugurthine War by Sallust https://archive.org/details/twelvecaesars01suethttps://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.189883The Gallic War by Julius Caesar Plutarch's Lives History of the Wars and The Secret History by Procopius of CaesareaThe Muqaddimah by Ibn KhaldunNew Science by Giambattista VicoThe History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon The History of England from the Accession of James the Second by Thomas Babington Macaulay France and England in North America by Francis ParkmanAlbion's Seed by David Hackett FischerThe Ideological Origins of the American Revolution by Bernard BailynDemocracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville On Power by Bertrand de JouvenelThe Tragedy of Great Power Politics by John J. Mearsheimerhttps://archive.org/details/The-geographical-pivot-of-history The Origins of the Second World War by A. J. P. Taylorhttps://www.unz.com/runz/the-true-history-of-world-war-ii/ Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley The Lessons of History by Will & Ariel Durant https://archive.org/details/the-fate-of-empires-and-search-for-survival-john-bagot-glubbThe Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler
>>534817148>i went to school in a county with one of the best public education systems in the country. top ten for sure.So did I. And the "education" I received there was garbage. I didn't get any real education until I went to university, where at least some of my courses resembled something like what you might have received more than a hundred years ago in a little schoolhouse on the prairie.
>>534817197I'm going to save all of this. Doubt i'll read most, but a few.
>>534817367I'm just putting this stuff out there for whoever wants it. People can do with it as they see fit: treat it as gospel, pick and choose from it, ignore it completely, or denounce it as the work of the devil.
>>534803733Nature crushes Nurture at about 20:1. You literally cannot fix stupid. You can spend millions and only make stupid 0.01% less stupid.
>>534817197Eventually you will want to collect your own library of physical books to read and study from, not just as a hedge against a complete internet crash or a full-scale, centralized memoryholing of unauthorized digital texts, but also because you learn better by reading and studying from physical books:https://youtu.be/SEu0tx1_Zwkhttps://youtu.be/uiNB-6SuqVAhttps://youtu.be/1ykKCTcCbKYYou can order cheap, used hardcopies of most of the books listed above from the following dealers:https://www.thriftbooks.com/https://www.betterworldbooks.com/https://www.hpb.com/https://www.ebay.com/https://www.abebooks.comWriting notes by hand is proven to increase retention:https://youtu.be/zKi1KYhi0xghttps://youtu.be/ATmJb3bH2E0
