Why do commietards talk about waking up the prols to “class conciousness” as if poorfags aren’t aware that rich people exist?
Class consciousness means that you have common interests with your class, that it is in your interest to work together for your aims as the capitalist class does, instead of struggling individually and thinking of yourself in purely individual terms
>>534842851They are the superior intellectuals, who have tasked themselves with waking up the dumb unwashed peasants, and convincing them that everyone is equal.
>>534842851>we need to tell people that giving jews absolute power will somehow benefit themfixed that for you
they're accelerationists in their own way. Marx said the working class would eventually develop a class conscience and innevitably bring down the burgeoisie, without the help of marxists intellectuals. They're essentially doing what the bolsheviks did in the russian empire
>>534842851Class consciousness is how the host becomes aware of the parasite, and how the immune system becomes activated.
The parasite hates class consciousness.
Poorfags think they can all be rich fags and that is the false consciousness
So you find your balls
>>534843273The rich have stolen what was produced by labour. That is the nature of the parasitic class. Theft.
The landlords, for example, have deprived the workers of housing.
To deprive people of the essentials necessary for life, is of course a kind of murder, and the landlords, as a class, are certainly guilty of that.
>>534842851They know rich people exist, but they want the losers to kill them. It's just another way for people who aren't in power to seize power, and if successful, the new revolutionary leaders will be just as bad or worse as the old leaders.
>>534842851They don’t understand the one thing all revolutions had in commonFAMINE
>>534843345>>534843517>>534843621I'm a communist and your tripfagging is odious shit that defeats the whole point of an anonymous site. It's what seperates us from reddit
>>534843345The root contradiction in marxism is that on one hand, it denies the existence of soul, spirit, god etc. being a purely materialistic ideology and in the other, tries to claim there is some inherently sacred value in labor making workers uniquely deserving of living and free stuff even when the machines can do their jobs faster and better. If we're all inherently souless machines then, I'm sorry to say, but it's undeniable we'll reach a point of tech advancement where all workers are completely unecessary for the continuation and flourishing of humanity. If anything, the "working class" becomes a dead weight on a planet supposedly already suffering from overpopulation etc.
>>534842851A lot of them aren’t familiar with the degree of exploitation that comes from the dynamics of capital and consequently accept unfair workers conditions, aren’t unionized or lack the proper resources to organize, so they ostensibly accept the hegemony as it is and themselves as being lower and generally lack the inner depravity of the imperialist yoke that monopolizes institutions that work against their interests so they might not understand empirically how their shortcomings are typically acquainted with the surplus value of the vices of the capital class. Rejecting servitude to despotism is part of class consciousness. As soon as you explain labor theory and articulate history to them, they usually wake up to the class problem.
>>534842851because seeing other races as equals and partners is unnatural that's why commies and capitalists have to constantly propagandize people to get them to go along with it. People don't need any instruction to work with their own kind because it's natural. If diversity was really our strength wouldn't it be self evident? Why would we CONSTANTLY need to be reminded?
>>534842851Communists in the west still believe that the peasants would rise up if only they knew how fucked over and controlled they are.What they never factor into account is that your average person is stupid. Like really fucking stupid. As long as they have a standard of living that is better than>penniless and starving to deathThey are generally okay with whatever bullshit the rich are doing because they simply don't care about it unless it personally affects them in a directly observable way.
>>534844463>as soon as you brainwash them with pauedoscience babble, they go along with itsee this is exactly what I mean
>>534842851It's simple. Communists don't understand the working class.
>>534843199Class consciousness is a spook, and pushed by the very class that class consciousness is "supposed" to warn about. It is toothless and worthless as an organizing principal, which is why they push it.
>>534842982so recruiting into a group? droning out basically
>>534844722ESL?
>>534844767>whoa you speak more than one language?always funny with borger
>>534845016So yeah, you don't understand what I was saying, that the rich have class solidarity and a common interest, and that the working class should as well. But you say ONLY the Epstein Class can, if wage slaves do they're "drones"
>>534843621Of course the tripfag leafjeet is a commie lmao
>>534842851Distraction from race.
>>534842982I think the state should do everything within reason to make workers’ lives as dignified as possible but identifying yourself as part of a the prol “class” is just really gay and reduces your humanity to nothing but a cog consumer unit in the same way that economic liberalism does.
>>534844337>tries to claim there is some inherently sacred value in labor making workers uniquely deserving of living and free stuff even when the machines can do their jobs faster and better.Not really, the point is the arrangement of the bourgeois class having private ownership over capital and leveraging their ownership of it to accumulate wealth is ultimately unnecessary and detrimental for everyone but themselves and the people who work that capital should be the ones to collectively own and control it, even if it's as simple as bunch of George Jetsons pressing a button on some fancy machine.The point is nobody actually needs the bourgeois to own the capital for them. It's an arbitrary arrangement that's meant to exploit people who perform labor for the people who own the capital.
>>534844463One example of "class unconsciousness" anyone can see for themselves is bringing up the idea of workplace democracy, especially to Americans. Voting for their own management, having a democratic say over work schedules, benefits, pay, ect. These are basic concepts but it's not something Mutts will ever even think about because it's so far outside the box of what's even possible from their perspective. It's like telling a shit-covered medieval peasant "What if we didn't have a king and chose our leaders instead?" They wouldn't even know what the fuck you were talking about, it wouldn't make sense to them. The feudal structure of king and lords is just "how it is." Of course the King is the King, God chose him to be King, so he's King.These are people who live in an (ostensible) democracy and tend to have some amount of nationalistic pride over it, but if you bring up bringing democracy to their work lives, something they spend the majority of their waking lives in, they just accept the role of being subjects to a marketplace of little private fiefdoms like it's an immutable fact of life.
>>534845493If capital isn’t directed by private owners, it will just be directed by the state less efficiently and power will be stratified in the exact same way but in a cosmetically different system. The main concern is the character of the ruling class, regardless of the system — i.e. whether or not they have a national “consciousness” and the best interests of their countrymen at heart. You could have a benevolent dictator under communism and you can have benevolent capitalists. Both systems are liable to corruption, but it’s harder to extricate society from a corrupt ruling class under communism.
>>534842982Correct>>534844334Correct>>534845180CorrectMan first time I see a muttanon not being retarded, thank you for posting camarade, makes me think this site is not completely dead yet.>>534842851They're aware that rich people exist, but they're not always aware they the dominant class do have class consciousness, and will fight against them, as a class. They're not aware they have more shared interests with a random worker, than with any rich people, they're not aware that they will never be rich themselves, that class mobility and meritocracy is the oldest meme in the capitalist book
>>534842851"Class consiouness is when you know dat rich people exist."Das capital, volume 86
>>534845180rather have a shot at it rather than being 100% guaranteed cucked for lifethe only way your commie utopia could ever work is with non-human enforcer of the system, like some AGI overlord, and even then it would become bleak as fuck following the ideology. nerfing excellence because retards would feel bad about themselves in the presence of such thingalso I have only seen weaklings fall for it, I do not identify myself with that weird shit anon, miss me with it. makes no sense, not even joking. starts with what seems to be "good ideas" but turns dark, fast.
>>534842982>instead of struggling individually and thinking of yourself in purely individual termsYou mean like getting welfare? And free stuff?
>>534842851Poor people get tricked and manipulated by their richer counterparts all the time, and the reasonable ones usually don't or can't do anything about it because they're busy trying to survive. It really just comes down to rich assholes exploiting desperate idiots.
>>534845493>Not really, the point is the arrangement of the bourgeois class having private ownership over capital and leveraging their ownership of it to accumulate wealth is ultimately unnecessary and detrimental for everyone but themselves and the people who work that capital should be the ones to collectively own and control it, even if it's as simple as bunch of George Jetsons pressing a button on some fancy machine.that's dumb, there's a lot of improvement in slave life from that. like a huge fucking lot. else you'd be at the level of where you started from>>534845493>It's an arbitrary arrangement*natural. because it works. not saying it's perfect and is forever, but it worked, still seems to work to some extent. will break the fuck down, along with every other system
>>534842982The niggers and other foreigns you trust fund babies are fine with dumping on me aren't part of my class
>>534846086In my country we have a saying "patriot/nationalist bourgeoisie is a myth" they always act out of capitalistic self interest in priority over any patriotic ideology. I think you're doing some wishful thinking there anon
>>534846403>*natural. because it works. not saying it's perfect and is forever, but it worked, still seems to work to some extent. will break the fuck down, along with every other system
>>534846536>mock reasonable argument>somehow think you win the argumentvery high IQ move
>>534846178Class consciousness is a weapon of the classes you purport to be against. There's a reason workers are rarely communist, but elite circles are rife with them. It's a spook. It's not real.
>>534842851Achieving class consciousness involves 1. Understanding the Marxist theory of societal development (communism as an inevitability and capitalism as a transitory period) AND 2. Eliminating random bullshit that obscures/and red herrings for class consciousness (mainly race/religion/culture conflicts) since history is defined by class warfare and nothing else.
>>534846507No and this is why "National Socialism" will eventually just revert back to capitalism because when you already believe in a strict race/national hierarchy and the right of superior humans to exploit the weak and the inferior, then the next obvious conclusion to that is "Hey I have money and own a bunch of capital, why the fuck should I share that with anyone else? If they weren't inferior to me, they would be the ones with the wealth so why shouldn't I exploit them just because they're white like me? I'm just winning the game of natural selection. If you're so racially superior, why aren't you rich?"
>>534846048Democracy can only work within a high agency minority of the population. There will always be a small minority of people who direct the masses, but when their power is based in popularity contests, the only difference is that you are selecting for the best demagogues instead of the most competent or virtuous. This is true of every hierarchical institution, whether that be a company, the state, or anything else. The best ruler is always a benevolent monarch. Libtards and commiefags think demoocracy is a moral good unto itself which is retarded.
>>534842851Because class doesn't have everything to do with wealth. But you wouldn't know that you pinhead.
>>534846798>communism as an inevitability and capitalism as a transitory periodno, getting culled is inevitable, and capitalism is indeed the transitory period. communism utopia cannot be real. nobody should feel bad for being better than you. I don't. go fuck yourself. if I am better than you at something I do not want to be shamed, feel bad about it, or be nerfed in any way because it hurts your feefees.>we should engineer ourselves to all be equalnah I'm not narcissistic that way
>>534846802Yeah yeah I totally agree with what you're saying right now. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the capitalist-psyop'ed argument that says that bourgeoisie is good as long as they're nationalists, but that never actually happens, the bourgeoisie always préfères to stay rich than to save their country. And that's not even counting what you pointed out, a system of domination will lead to another etc etc
They know rich people exist as you know the sun exists, they do not understand why the rich people will stay rich for hundreds of years and they will stay poor
>>534846507I agree pure capitalism inevitably creates corrupting incentives, that’s why I take the third position. I think the west started to fall when the ruling class became comprised of pettifogger lawyers and merchants instead of warrior aristocrats. Out rulers’ ethics used to be based in marshal virtues like honor, loyalty, blood, etc. now it’s just about manipulating people’s perceptions to be popular.
>proles literally dumb animals>'intellectual' class worried about vaginas for men>elites literally can control the stock market with tweetsOutside of orbital mind control lasers, I'm thinking it's hopeless
>>534847357you cannot have everyone rich or you all wipe. someone has to clean the shit, people aren't willingly doing it to the rate that is required in a competitive setup such as Earth is.thus, methods to determine people do what is needed at group level are devised. under communism is by threat of death or jail or some kind of physical pain. under capitalism you do it so you can pay for your basic needs, else you end up in a ditch.at the end of the day, someone has to work, people don't really want to, thus they have to be coerced into it one way or another. if they aren't, they won't work, and outsiders can push your shit in, if not now, soon.thus, everyone cannot be rich. someone has to work, you import slaves/cheap labor, and you still have the rich natives and the poor workers. someone has to fucking work. tomorrow, now! or shit stops working. honk-honk
>>534847323I call that the "Mr Fezziwig" delusion. The idea that capitalism will work as long as we have good righteous capitalists that try to do right by their workers and customers and not unscrupulous cutthroat ones. "Good" capitalists do exist, but they're in a system where ruthless competition between firms is the law of the jungle and the "good" capitalists who put aside profits and accumulation in favor of more noble virtues will inevitably be outcompeted and absorbed by the ones who don't.
>>534847599so it comes down to which system slaves prefer. mandatory work but not much going on, or you work as you please, have a chance of laying back all of your remaining life depending on your luck and how you perform.since there's many types of humans some choose one some choose the other. and here we are. tired of this shit discussion
>>534847599You write too much just to say: "I want a lower class I can exploit"
>>534846913Ok but commietards can never agree on who actually constitutes the bourgeois — you might have your own basis for discerning those categories but there’s a million commie troons who will disagree and you’ll never have ideological coherence because communists are fundamentally just resentful faggots
>>534847718>you are $something_bad if you don't agree with methe state of arguments
>just submit to your betters
>>534846471you're right, those are the lumpenproletariat
>>534842982Well yeah, that's called collectivism. Simple as.Something we don't do in the US since we're an artificially atomized low-trust society. We are being divided by the rich so we will NEVER take up arms against them or break free from the slavery they impose. They are so incredibly effective at that, that our dumbest retards unironically elected a retarded scam artist billionaire into office twice, thinking he is a "man of the people" lmao.
>>534847833if the west is culling their slaves I seriously doubt the commies will keep their dead weight, or not for long if it's not competitive
>>534848017>We are being divided by the rich so we will NEVER take up arms against them or break free from the slavery they impose.what the actual fuck lol. what tf would you do? you'd wipe the country lol.
>>534847741Commies are cultists they can't reveal to you the secret of who their enemy is or else you wont side with them
>>534847741Kind of like how rightoids purportedly oppose Jews but are Israels #1 supporter? Or how they oppose Jeets but support a Vice President who married one? Or how they oppose blacks but support based ones like Kanye? Or how they oppose hispanics but support Nick Fuentes?Begging for absolute perfect categorization of anything is a low IQ tactic used by morons who want to play word games instead of discussing anything of substance.
>>534842851I mean, they're using class warfare against the prols with DEI
>>534848187Vance might as well be a vat grown Manchurian candidate
>>534844114>the new revolutionary leaders will be just as badDefeatist nonsense, and utterly false. Removing parasites improves the health of the host: if one has to keep removing parasites, then keep removing parasites.
>>534844599What? No way. Communists speak for the working class (whose members are often illiterate and may not speak articulately) and advocate for their class interests.
>>534847741>Ok but commietards can never agree on who actually constitutes the bourgeois — you might have your own basis for discerning those categories but there’s a million commie troons who will disagree and you’ll never have ideological coherence because communists are fundamentally just resentful faggotsThere is a objective definition of bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie are those people who are more or less enjoying their lives without having signed up to be revolutionary communists. Because they are not on the side of the communists, they are against the communists, and anyone not a communist is bourgeoisie.
>>534848402statistically speaking I wouldn't risk it. power selects for certain traits.and free speech is kinda nice
>>534848429>and advocate for their class interests.you idiots never learn
>>534848402>Defeatist nonsense, and utterly false. Removing parasites improves the health of the host: if one has to keep removing parasites, then keep removing parasites.This is a good point. You leave a parasite abd you die or become a zombie. Even if they are identical at least parasite has 50 years of structure and connections behind him instead of 500.
>>534848553>statistically speaking I wouldn't risk it. power selects for certain traits.Right now, those traits are psychopathy and pedophilia
>>534842851IN NORMIE PUBLIC SCHOOL THEY TAUGHT US ABOUT DEMOCRACYIN GATE THEY TAUGHT US ABOUT FEUDALISM
>>534848187> Begging for absolute perfect categorization of anything is a low IQ tactic used by morons who want to play word games instead of discussing anything of substance.The rightoids you mentioned don’t subscribe to a specific ideology with a literal pamphlet manifesto codifying it. The left is mostly a linear thought progression about human equality from Rousseau and the French Revolution through to Marx and neo-marxists. The right is simply the absence of the left, so there will inevitably be incoherence. Communism on the other hand considers itself a technical science coming out of the Darwinian age — the imprecision and lack of coherence, let alone its failed predictions, falsifies the entire thing.
