Communism, in theory, requires everybody to be giving their everything, with no guarantee of personal gain. It assumes there won't be a class of people trying to gain leverage over others, and that the majority of people aren't naturally followers and won't be trying to do the minimum to survive. Marx was a creative type and believed creativity is the driving force of humanity. I believe it is, as well: It's just not so with 98% of humans.Marxism is such a naive, romantic, and fantastical view of human life and civilization. Marxist socilaism was penned by a chronically-unemployed drunk with wealthy family and high-class in-laws he was insanely jealous of. He was a man of no-to-little use who believed he was worth more than he actually was. This seems to be the case with almost every leftist.
Eventually someone else's money runs out.
>>535302377Sounds like my kind of system.
>>535302377Essentialist dogma is fake and gay jewish brainwashing. Your system is mindless and would have your own children working 24 hours a day in a coal mine. Guess what? People follow, not because they lack creativity, but because a part of being human is naturally trusting each other.You are not capable of being trusted because you have to resort to fake and gay scholastic dogma handed down by men in dresses eating nothing but lentils in the desert and appropriating what God did for you on the cross, behind a normative building, to civilize pagan people. Humanism is originally a jewish and roman catholic idea that led to dogmatic monarchy, which led to capitalism, which led to geometric increases of productivity, while everyone doing the work (the stuff people don't want to do) from their sense of moral realism, are used and discarded.Marxism is not naive or romantic, it's a real apprehension and description of where it all goes wrong. Marx did insane hours in the library researching and writing all this stuff up, and marxists.org is a good resource for anyone looking into this sort of stuff for a different perspective.
>>535302447People being productive, is the someone else's money running out, from gay nigger rich fags, banksters, stinking poor and stinking rich, fraudsters, bankrupting your nations so we can feed cocaine to lab rats in clinical trials and see if they paint faster.
>>535302450Honorable men will not pay society's bills for whores for palestine. Fuck greta nigger brainwashed jewish leftists.
The majortiy of modern leftists are neo-Progressive, neo-Marxist, unorthodox, Revisionists who would either be executed or sent to the gulags under a Marxist-Leninist regime. I kind of have a modicum of respect for old school, tankie communists. I have none for these intersectional faggots.
>>535302779this
In Soviet Russia you were forced to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Sundays were for resting, but of course that wasn't respected, you had to make up for "lost time" during Sundays. Those who didn't work were killed alongside the landlords.
>>535302377he was right in his critic of capitalism. but he didn't really give a proper solution. he just said "capitalism bad" and "the final goal should be a money less classless society" but what comes in between isn't explained. which is why every communist state has had different policies or just copied the USSR.Capitalism however, is a snake that eats self and will always be so. Dont get me wrong.
>>535302808>In Soviet Russia you were forced to work 12 hours a day 7 days a weekWrong, it was a standard 8 hour work day for the majority of the USSRs existence. landlords deserve to be killed, too.
>>535302377Communist theory requires an unnatural ideology of materialism which means all men are equal and their consciousness doesn't matter. Leftists believe your mind is a blank page to be filled by propaganda and that family doesn't exist because then you have inequality as you prefer your blood brother over the party when the party is your family now.It's a beyond sinister ideology when you ignore the economic bike shedding they do and read the true theory of Marxist materialism which was blown out by quantum physics
>>535302377stop stealing wages.pay what workers are owed.when you get a job, then you'll understand.
>>535302809you’re a commie
>>535302809He had some criticism that was relevant for those times. The assembly line alienates the worker. Division of labor makes it so a worker doesn't build a whole chair that's his to sell, he only cuts one board. The result is that productivity is ten times more, but a worker is no longer invested in the product, he doesn't care about the product anymore. This was a new concert and it was "deep" For the time, factories were a very new thing, people were used to farm work, not assembly lines. Marxist criticism today is nothing short of retarded. Who gives a fuck if you don't operate the entire supply chain solo? Grow up.
>>535302930It's mathematically impossible for all businesses to pay below averageThis means that it's not businesses stealing your wages, it's government taxes
>>535302377>Communism, in theory,nope. marx thought the capitalist mode of production was destined to create such a high level of productivity it won't really matter if individuals are "giving it their everything" or even doing much of anything at all. either this productivity is channeled into improving the material conditions of society, or it becomes endless production for productions sake. it's in the grundrisse
>>535302866in communism, state is the landlord. so you're just adding the reasons why communism is shit because it's a bit harder to kill repressive state compared to an individual.>>535302982so marx was pro-capitalism all along?
>>535302880
Your understanding of Marxism is very shallow, I recommend reading some books.
>>535302930>pay what workers are owedThis is purely subjective and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend like it isn't. Who decides, and how do they decide, what is owed, exactly?
Marx's objective value theory is wrong, then the fundamental social relation in capitalism (worker/owner of the means of production) is not extremely unfair ("exploitation"). No need for any revolution. Only poltical marxism has some value
>>535302982It is the illusion of people who don't produce things (like Marx) that production is a slippery slope. But even today it's a Sisyphean struggle.And it's true at some point productivity is so big that the poorest quintile of a productive society is richer than the richest quintile of a communist regime. But it's never a productivity for productivity's sake, it requires perfect fine tuning, enormous know-how, and very tight margins. Most people can't produce shit, tons of inheritors or lottery winners lose their fortune, or barely maintain it. Very few people are cold calculators.
>>535302967>its not the billionaire, its the billionaire controlled governmentokay...
>>535303075>That's not Marxism. Heh, read a book.Stupid ass drive-by style of comment. Vacuous just like most people on the far left.
>>535303179Why would I waste my time writing anything of value in this pig den? OPs understanding of Marxism is of a 14 year old. Best I can do is to tell you to read some books and go on with my life.
>>535303170One or two business can pay below average, but not ALL of them, do you understand that? So something is happening that's affecting economy as a whole. Natural disasters, wars, or taxes.
>>535303138>production is a slippery slopethe problem, the core of marx's thesis, and a fact which reality shows is: mass production requires mass consumption. thats the central contradiction in the capitalist mode of production. surpluses are created, demand falls under profitable levels, companies go bankrupt, etc. in mainstream economics this is called the business cycle. im not even sure what you're trying to imply? all capitalists are perfectly rational planners?
>>535302377The art of begging
>Communism The problem with communism is pretending that all work is equal and that magic entrepreneur will spring up and will invent new way for labor to be valuable without any investment from the government and no reward for doing so. Communism is just preaching stagnation. The best system is one were the regulators are heavy regulated first, then heavily regulate capitalist markets. The problem with capitalism is the ability to sell politics for money.
>>535302377>Communism, in theory, requires everybody to be giving their everything, with no guarantee of personal gain. It assumes there won't be a class of people trying to gain leverage over othersit assumes neither of these things, you're thinking of anarchists. Indeed, state socialism as championed by Marx is distinguished from other kinds by its strong belief that the state should be captured, not destroyed, and used as a means to prevent people from gaining that sort of leverage over others.
>>535302377>requires everybody to be giving their everything, Wrong. Personal property =/= private property.
>>535302377Marx by the way enjoyed European salon culture which we don't have here where intellectuals would sit around drinking and arguing political theory. Many people met this guy and said he insisted on being addressed as 'Professor' and his ideas were directly stolen from Hegel and Heraclitus. There is nothing new about his economic ideology either all he did was take ideas by Adam Smith and the original capitalists and simply negate them then try and come up with a theory where that works. It's just a bunch of intellectual jack offery where you critique and negate over and over. His book Groundwork and The German ideology he shows total disdain for utopian progressive ideas and replaces it all entirely with a theory of matter meaning there are no eternal truths or morals that either predate or outlive man everything is a clean slate that can be manipulated, made up from nothing but an empty shell to be pushed into any direction needed. It's a totally insane theory and why noone will ever tell you to read groundwork or his other work except das kapital
>>535302377Marxism doesn't work even assuming ideal altruistic behavior because it lacks the market mechanisms for allocating resources. >>535303366There is literally nothing wrong with a business going bankrupt because they are unprofitable.
>>535303047If you want to read something that today would be considered heretical read The Dialectic of Enlightenment by Adorno. He was an extreme leftist that ferociously attacks modern liberals for their desire to dominate man and nature. Adorno believed that fascism was a natural reaction against even soft liberalism and a good part of the book justifies Hitler it's pretty hilarious some leftist would write that.Lenin in One Step Forward, Two Steps Back said all these social democrats we allow them their time. We allow them to weaken the Right and religious beliefs to open the door for 'true revolutionary communism' then we hang them with joy because they are worse than the bourgeoisie. To full throated communists these are traitors to history and class so they will deal with them with a merciless ruthlessness that they won’t even treat us reactionaries with. That's another book never recommended by any social democrat who tells you to read Marx and quibble over silly economics. "Hey did you guys see that Lenin book where it's day of the rope for all you socialists? No?"
>>535303428Karl Marx opposed private property because he saw it as the root of alienated labor, social inequality and exploitation under capitalism. Also when you capture the state a small group of people gets leverage over others by definition
>>535302377>This seems to be the case with almost every leftist.yes. almost all of them are really lumpenproletariat and have no genuine class consciousness. if the shit ever hits the fan, they'll band together and backstab each other within a few weeks vying for control. kind of how most lesbians behave by doing an impression of what they THINK a man acts like.
>>535304802Thank you, I'll check that out, does indeed sound hilarious
>>535303428and captured state doesn't have leverage over others?the problem with commies like you is that the "not true communism" you are championing is terrible even as a theory that you yourself propose to others to the point that it's impossible to tell if commies are just evil people who know the "another attempt" will end up just like those before but lie about it, or they are just so retarded that they can't see the literal number 2 step after the first step they are suggesting should happen (that step, by the way, being the same step as every real communism that actually existed so far)
>>535302377Shieet.
>>535303075>read some booksHistory ones, which demonstrate the disastrous impact of Marxism in practice?>inb4 no real Marxism has been even triedThen don't bring it up as a viable option for policies of entire nations until your theories are proven to work in some smaller scale
>>535302377Watched documentary about Jonestown. A survivor relates how eleven members of his family died. He escaped into the jungle while his family drank the koolaid or got injected in the neck with cyanide.I wondered why he would move his entire family to the jungle giving Jones total power over himself and his family, how shortsighted that was, and how 99% of humanity, myself included, do be like that.
>>535302809Hid solution is : not my problem. Let it collapse on itself in its own contradictions.Of course it didn't work.
