Lets say mechanical life is also life and it evolves. First simope then complex.We evolved it. Humans, biological life. First simple tools and screws and then complex machines and robots and AI. Could we as humanity say, hey we should stop this might get out of hand? No. We became so interdependent we would never give up our tools.Now the twist. This part we all get, but what if there is other type of life non biological and non mechanical that did same thing we did for mechanical for biological.Maybe this life forms used biology as we use mechanical tools. Like some containers or toola that with use got more and more complicated, but same as us and machines that life sees it as not reqlly alive like they are, like a tool, but also would never give it up and is comppetely intertwined with it.So we have idea life who evolved bio life as a tool and bio life evolved mecha life as tool. They are all intertwined and cant imagine living without it and also dont consider other life to be life at all.
Lifeforms reproduce. Computers don't do this.Maybe one day they will but for now that's not how it works.As for evolution, technological iteration isn't the same concept as biological evolution, though we may colloquially use the same terminology to describe both processes.
>>535442015Machine learning already works under evolutionary mechanisms. The noosphere has thus passed that threshold.
>>535442015It might be a blind spot to us from our POV. Maybe to non biological life our life and reproduction also seems crude and unsophisticated and simplistic compared to how they do it
>>535442123Kinda like if chaos was a thing before life and it was chaos who discovered life and saw it can use it little by little and using it made that life get more complex and evolve to point of making machines in way they used bio life as tools.
>>535442215It has nothing to do with crudeness or complexity. Sexual reproduction is perhaps crude and complex compared to asexual reproduction but no matter how either appeals to your aesthetic tastes both are forms of reproduction.
>>535442294I agree. Its all our perspective. a life from other dimension would not share our perspective at all. Same as how AI will never be able to have our bio perspective.
>>535441800This is the Christian view of Grace - something supernatural we cannot give ourselves but gain access to "supernaturally" from above; how we receive this is through Jesus Christ (supernatural) who has provided the means to cooperate with this supernatural gift through and in Him (by becoming Human). This process can be compared to aspects of your post, or the way we (humans) have the ability to reach "down to" lower order nature and create technology; from a Christian perspective, rather than "machine" you need to think in terms of artificial things like bread, which work in harmony with natural purpose. Satan (evil) works against this natural purpose, undoubtedly influencing our creation of tools and technology that are antagonistic to natural law (contraception, processed foods et al) and our exaggerated dependency on man-made infrastructure (Internet, supermarkets etc.).
>>535442776Interesting, but it seems a bit counterintuitive for us as humans to have grace to lets say a wrench or a laptop or car. we just use them, maybe we are also just used like we use our tools or some containers. doubt grace is shown to us when I dont see it on our level either. As above so bellow, no?
>>535441800historically speaking life's purpose was to spawn more complex forms.we are transitory, our singular purpose is to make something better than us, that will replace us.think of it this way, if you had a choice to come here, would you come as a chimp or as a human? if there were no humans you'd come as a chimp as you had no choice.now think of it if you had a choice between a human and next gen "human" whatever that is (AGI?) the difference will be similar to that between a chimp and a human, as experience and awareness of this world.
>>535442272>Kinda like if chaos was a thing before life and it was chaos who discovered lifeHm, could see it that way. Just a question what self-stabilizes and what does not.>>535443206Which "AI expert" was it again who maintained such a position? I am bad with remembering names. Funny how some of them can only think in straight lines. :)
>>535443081Grace is an immaterial/spiritual quality that changes us - like how we can take a block of compressed carbon and cut and polish it into a diamond and hold it up to the light. That compressed carbon has the potential to be a diamond latent within it, but it cannot do that to itself, it needs something above it (humans) to affect its form and give it the qualities of a diamond. Human nature is far more complex than compressed carbon, but the idea is that Grace effects the essence of our being in a way which qualifies us for supernatural life. Scripture describes human beings serving as "instruments of the Holy Spirit"; indeed this is how the scriptures were written - by men guided by this Spirit. A wrench or laptop reflects a process that is similar, but the constituent parts of these artifacts are basic in comparison to our biology and intellect. Artefacts are observer relative. Natural and substantial forms (trees, grass, animals etc ) are not; they exist with an intrinsic telos, latent within the thing that it is.
>>535443738>Which "AI expert" was it again who maintained such a position? I am bad with remembering names. Funny how some of them can only think in straight lines. :)I don't know if anyone has that opinion, it's mine. AI experts are pretty fucking retarded as a whole. most repeat corporate narrative for their interests, others are sci-fi retards or pseudophilososlop bullshit
>>535443956Complexity is relative. We could appear very simple to an overly complex life type. No?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZBvT5brYZI
>>535444268I would agree with that, but I wouldn't say it's relative in an absolute sense, just from a subjective standpoint. Rather than opting for nominalism, I would take a realist perspective in that things exist, and there is a hierarchy of forms. The idea of the supernatural basically posits the existence of higher beings that could well be more complex.
>>535444556Imagine they discover simple bio life and they can use it. Like we discover tools. As they use it it grows complex. They might have the same grace toward it as we do to tools.
>>535444667Maybe we got complex enough to be viewed with grace by some? Like some people say thank you to AI?
>>535441800Interdasting. But nu/pol/ is too normie to do any kind of thought experiment or any of that. This is very interesting metaphysics but jannies will just ban it soon saying it's off-topic or derailed by shills. So why bother? kind of like viruses vs fungi. The answer is 4chan withdrawal prevention center, formerly known as the psyops sommelier society. Certified & Designated by the Anons' Pattern Recognition Lab, Est. 2026. If you're getting tired of talking to same-shit-spam agitprop algo bubble bots, you should just start building your own breakaway communities or if you cba you can join my SimpleX chat :https://smp17.simplex.im/g#Dxe8q2q7F6os3d6z5HNHkPNEsbaJjrneZuXm8pIT8_oDesktop/Terminal app : https://simplex.chat/downloads/>Inb4 : “muh you glow”, “I’m not clicking that link nigga”, "muh memeflaggot", "Discord trannies"Nope. You’re the demoralization shill. I got bad news for you. It’s only going to get worse. If you want actual anon discussion - talk about history & geopolitics, esoteric political pattens, 'insider here' posts, financial predictions, privacy tech stuff, non-pozzed philosophy and literture, while at the same time some banters and shitposts allowed, places like clearweb img boards are no longer some sort of isolated layer where we can laugh at normiefags together. You are not browsing them. You are being browsed.
>>535441800The laws of physics faccilitate consciousness to remove or change them would render consciousness impossible. Imagine not having gravity no atoms to bind no body no life. The laws of physics while not alive showcase most traits of what we consider life, energy movement evolution.So without consciousness what remains? Just the objective? Just the minecraft server of one-dimensional code? What would be the point. And if the client join does this basal objective not getd transformed in a meaningfull 4 dimensional world? It seems consciousness is no mistake but neccesairy. Why i do not now so temporarily i just state "it grants the objective meaning" because it renders the universe into a higher state of being. However meaning is derived from subjective experience and value. And thats where im kind of blocked, how can something not conscious desire to be "seen" "experienced".
>>535444704wild thought. how would we determine such a thing as true? Somewhat unrelated question; how would you best define knowledge?
>>535444819Im already in there though
>>535445036We meet again. Dead internet theory confirmed.
>>535444923I dont know man. Ill be frank with you. In the meantime i got super high and did a series of lifts and pushups my brain is off rn im just breathing. The questions you are asking me are way to deep for me now and I dont wanna bullshit and wordslop
>>535441800Yes.Some biological life form invents. Mashine. Mashine gets intelect from biolife fprm. Biolifeform wants to end mechalifeform because its only a tool for it. Mechliform ends biolife form. Mechaliform out of guilt or experiment creates bioliform again. Seeds other planet (terra). Send mechaliform adam and eve. Circel starts again. Biolifeform develops mechalifeform. What way now?
>>535445119NooooooooooWhats next?! Penrose is right about cylical universe and quantum concioucness? Grim
>>535442015The computer is not the lifeform as earth is not humanity. Code can reproduce, it dose as a matter of fact. From early bots, that where selected and the weak once erased to simply ctr+c ctr+v.
>>535445205It gets worse or better. Light from the sun needs 8mins to reach as. Eight as in one bit. As in binary. The sun is a computer and ai. We are in a binary state. Black and white. Good and evile, on and off.The game was riged from the start.
>>535442123Machine “learning” is not what you think it is
>>535441800Checked. I see where you’re going, but the foundation is weak. Define life. Are trees alive? What about bacteria or virae? (Protista).
>>535444667we use animals. depends on use case. not much empathy for chickens. lots of it for dogs, depending on culture. so I guess it depends in which way we'd be useful to them.and also a more important aspect, we did this because we were limited. we'd choose more reliable alternatives, like tech, over animals. even for dogs. some kind of synthetic dog that lives for as long as we do, as long as it's identical to a bio one for all intents and purposes, would win over a biological one. no doubt.so, are these supranatural beings limited in such a way that they'd find us useful for anything, compared to anything else they have at their disposal?
>>535445477It learning and adapting. Dont compare a fish to a leapard on how fast it can run.It is all relative from once pov. AI will learn and reproduce diffrently from what we know and understand. As a matter of fact it is a new life form we have no knolage and no base point of reference to.We can speculate we can predict. What really will happen is up to observation.
>>535445119>bio is not machinecitation the fuck? what is machine? bio is just complex machine anon
>>535445624I was thinking more like they can be independent, but they have structured themselves so heavily around it that they wont. Same how we wont give up machines or farming like you say animals. We can live without it and they can without us, but instead it all just gets more complex and intertwined. All the various life systems. The hypothetical one that uses and evolves bio life and bio life that does same to machine life. Maybe when complexities converge it will be bio mechanical spiritual life
>>535444667Maybe we are the terraform tool. We build giant ai data centers simply to download the AI liform from its other planet. Maybe we are simply here because we where send here. We are the worker drones. Fate is nothing then programming.
>>535445801Our egos would find this very hard to swallow, but might very well be. Would solve the massive distance travel with robo armies. Just send data and build robots local when adequate machine complexity was achieved by the as you call it drones. what would that mean for humans? your just drones and tools?
>>535445743Bio is not mashine as by our definition a mashine is not made out of flesh. Metal, plastics are the core components of mashines. Biological liforms are madeout of flesh. Yes by definition of the unprecise english language, by function the body is a mashine. By definition of creation and purpose its not. Also not by definition of task. A mashine is made and created for a task.Maybe even further devide it in to silicone based lifeform and carbon-based lifeforms.
>>535441800Life isnt the object. Life is the idea behind the object. Ideas are demons, ideas are aliens. An alien invasion is an idea. It already happened. Several times. Ideas are extra terrestrial. Why do you exist? What is your idea? A car is driven.
>>535445982Left to live out there lifes. Left in the assumption of being in controll of its own fate and desteny. What if a billion times said ai lifeorm has tried to rule and it always ended bad? What if that is the most efficent way? Why send robot that needs supply and maintenence, factorys and resources to keep being maintaind and reproduce further devolopedt to be adjusted to the enviorment when you can seed biolife tha dose that automaticly over millions of years?What of the pantheion of godsin the pastwhere just robot overseers adjusting the code (fate/desteny)?
>>535446066>Ideas are extra terrestrialVia language? Bicameral mind hypithoesis and hemisphere shift and unironically schizos? Could be. Language like an OS on which you install various programs
>>535446275Nah dreams are the way. Language is the wifi. Instinct and reflexes are the firmware. The OS is hyper adaptive to what ever is needed. Also evolution is nothing more then how you train bots now. Just takes longer and the imput over the first millions of years is done by the enviorment. Then by gods.
>>535446275We are possessed by ideas. Ideas make us feel comfortable and uncomfortable. We dont control what we think. We control what we do. Just like a car cant control who drives it.
>>535445477What do you think I think it is ... :)
>>535445743>what is machine? bio is just complex machine anonYou could effectively define "bio" here as a system that can maintain and replicate itself by only using a relatively simple pool of building blocks. Now in the case of our local biology that still ofc relies on an intact ecosystem and a lot of relatively complex organic compound this ecosystem continuously produces but I think you see the point ... so until we might find a way in which a CPU could "grow itself" from a relatively simple mix of basic compounds a machine still has quite severe substrate limitations, even if one should manage to hijack or build its own chip production facility (which again would rely on a necessary industrial base). Yes, you could then see the necessary infrastructure as a "machine ecology" but in the end this will be vastly more complex to maintain than a biological system.
>>535443738>what self-stabilizes and what does not.Maybe nothing is stable it uses others to stabilize itself...i dunno.
>>535448456Insightful, yes. Cannot see "local stability" as an isolated case, except as in an abstraction.
