what the fuck happened that caused the overall quality and booking to fall off a cliff after survivor series 2024?
>>19227446Both companies shit the bed last year, who knows.
Paul ran out of vince ideas
to be honest I think it actually started right at the start of 2025, which makes me think there was something in the background going on with the TKO control of the company and the netflix deal, they must have forced more control into things or something.
>>19227446TKO and Netflix
>>19227454Unironically this, same thing happened back during early 00s when later they ran out of Russo's drafts.
>>19227446They took the title off Roman and didn't have a plan for anything beyond that
>>19227462This. The Raw on Netflix debut was dreadful. The second Undertaker came out and rolled around on his motorcycle to celebrate Rhea winning the title I knew shit was fucked
they unironically need to get Shawn or heyman booking smackdownthey literally have heyman who was the guy who booked one of the greatest eras of smackdown and they don't use him for some reason
>>19227446they were a little over one month away from the netflix debut and ready to enact a year long business plan that was contingent upon retiring their biggest star of the last 20 years, which was going to print money for 90% of the year no matter how hard they fucked it upTKO moves slowly and they have enough international PLEs and hotshots up their sleeve to carry them into maybe 2028 before the wheels fall offretire styles, retire jericho, retire reyrey, retire brocketty, retire randy, bring back dwayne for more bullshit, strap up logan paul with the big one, bring in trump, astroturf the next face of the company, paul heyman tribute show after his heart finally gives out on him, even with interest dropping they're good for another few years on autopilot
>>19227446Roman kept winning and not being a part of tv and solo kept losing. Plus Tama got injured. Then the other 100 reasons
what the fuck was the point in ending Solo's tribal chief storyline so soon if none of it mattered?roman won back the oompaloompa and nobody fucking cares that he's tribal chief. in fact it's barely even ever mentioned.
>>19227534Because Rock wanted to do that segment with Roman
>>19227514Heyman was booking Smackdown a few years ago and all he did was push AEW's future midcard prisoners (Andrade/Malakai/Ricochet)
>>19227446After like 15 years, I started watching again at the Royal Rumble of this year. I guess I chose the worst possible time
>>19228161>After like 15 years, I started watching again at the Royal Rumble of this year. I guess I chose the worst possible timego back and watch summerslam 2022 --> WM40it's unironically the best period of wrestling we've had in a very long time.
>>19228166I might do that. I've heard really good things
>>19228166WM40 felt like the series finale of professional wrestling.
>>19228172it reminded me a lot of WM6 when warrior beat hogan and wrestling was shit for like 5 years after kek. hogan vs warrior also felt like a series finale
>>19227446Shoot tired of coconut niggers like you wouldn’t believe. I have coconut fatigue. Every time I turn on my television there’s OogaBooga, the cousin of Boombadooma, and the great grandson of Poopaloopa. Enough is enough
>>19228185I do like how the MFT’s are now Guerrillas of Destiny and Solo doesn’t paint his face as the leader.
>>19227446They are just complacent. They have absolutely no competition and they are making money hand over fist
>>19227446Paul finished up Vince's storylines. It's been all Paul since
>>19227446Paul can’t book
>>19227493Kys.
These threads are always so awful because it's always a bunch of dumb fucking retards who don't deal in specifics, because specifics means actually thinking things through and opening yourself up to criticism>How would you book the women's division?>I don't like womeme's wrestling>That's great, fucking retard. But what would you change about it, because it's not going away>I would make it go awayJust general retardation all around. "Paul can't book" is a homeless person-tier opinion to have about something that supposedly you have a higher level of knowledge on. It's like saying "Celine Dion can't sing" not because you actually believe it, or believe it's a statement that could be defended, but because you are a miserable cocksucker with nothing better to do than say retarded things and then pick fights with the people who rightfully point out how stupid you sound.
>>19228740that'll do, pig. that'll do.
>>19229171>but because you are a miserable cocksucker with nothing better to do than say retarded things and then pick fightsIt's like I have ESPN
>>19228740>>How would you book the women's division?>>I don't like womeme's wrestling>>That's great, fucking retard. But what would you change about it, because it's not going away>>I would make it go awayDid you just lose a fake argument with yourself?
>>19227446corporate greed. no seriously that's the answer.
>>19227513I haven't watched either company's weekly shows in a long time so can't really comment but... what?That sounds retarded. Were Taker and Rhea even associated with each other in a way that he should give a shit like that in kayfabe? Sounds like they just wanted him on screen for the marks.
>>19227527in other words, they're going to milk the last fumes of nostalgia from the era when they actually had some creativity.
>>19228740paul can't book man. he sucks. his shows are boring and he is not a creative person. if you fags actually watched anything outside the WWE bubble you would know that haitch has been stealing ideas from smaller feds from day one because he knows most people won't catch it. he is creatively bankrupt and even if he tries to do something based the TKO jews won't let him.
>>19229351>zero examples to back up claims of thefts>zero examples of what could/should be changed>just bitching like a little faggot with the same faggot smark talking points as usualThanks for proving my point
>>19229375One change would be firing gargano
>>19229415Why would you fire a serviceable, safe wrestler with potentially multiple years left on their contract? You could make an argument for non-renewal but skipping straight to firing is impaulsive and shows an inability to see the larger picture which, curiously, could also be used to classify most smark complaints about JPL's booking
The hot streak:>Wrestlemania 38 (Cody's return, Austin & Vince's last hurrah, Knoxville vs Zayn) to Survivor Series 2024>*Drew vs Punk HITC is the last truly great WWE match but you can add on SurSer the next month as the actual end of the hot streak-Roman & Heyman were basically booking the Bloodline saga themselves-Cody jumping from AEW gave them attention-HHH was able to coast off "not Vince" and course-correct on a few things Vince was doing wrong: salvaging LA Knight, calling up Iyo-Nick Khan's strategy of more international PPVs led hot crowds and unique presentations- House show loop was scaled back and led to a good formula of Friday TV, Sat-Sun house shows, Mon TV- Peacock was beneficial in that it was a $10 price point and they smartly pivoted away from AEW and did 5-6 match showsBut then....-The story peaked with Cody dethroning Roman-TKO got greedy with the ads on PLEs and on the ring canvas and jacking up the ticket prices and eliminating house shows-TKO got even greedier by putting Raw on Netflix, SD on cable, adding SNME (when HHH has no ideas), putting the PLEs on ESPN+- Buying AAA and crossing over with TNA has led to more belts and more shows that you "have to" keep up with- Roman has one foot out the door and is filming movies- Heyman is washed and is trying to surround himself with wrestlers who will protect him when TKO cleans house and dumps HHH, Road Dogg, Prichard, Hayes, etc- The Rock was right and Cody should have turned heel but Cody & HHH are stubborn- HHH sees himself in Seth and tried to prop him up as "The Guy" literally right when football season started- Cena's retirement tour was going to be the hot angle that carries them after Roman was dethroned and they absolutely BLEW IT- The Saudi Rumble and the Saudi Mania are depressing. (The Rumble is mostly fine but Americans are not going to travel to Saudi for WM Week)
>>19228740Booking womeme is super easy you literally have a woman who's massively over in Rhea so just have her squash everyone
>>19229485I appreciate the effort post, but just one point of clarification: it makes no sense to list things like "PLEs on ESPN+" as a reason a hot streak ended. The timeline doesn't match up, and in fact, any complaint that only began in January (Raw on Netflix in 2025, Buying AAA in April 2025) cannot be used to retroactively point to a hot streak ending in November 2024So basically the entire 2nd half of your post is null and void and a waste of time to read, until you're able to rewrite it with these parameters in mind.
>>19229375HHH hasn't booked a hot angle himself. The Bloodline was all Roman and Heyman and they elevated the Usos, Sami, Cody, and anyone that challenged (LA Knight) or were associated with them (Solo, Jacob Fatu, etc)HHH doesn't know how to pivot and cash in when something is hot. He stubbornly held onto Priest as WHC when the biggest moment of his reign was his cash-inHe booked a Scottish PLE and then had the Scottish hero LOSE in the main event thanks to a babyface acting like a heelHe couldn't let Priest lose clean and it tainted Gunther's coronation.Gunther's reign got screwed by eating a meaningless pin at the "brand supremacy" Saudi show. And Gunther was bogged down in the Judgement Day civil war instead of being a dominant champ. Cody dethroned Roman and HHH had no big heels ready to challenge him. AJ and KO gave him good matches but so what?By the time WM 41 came around, the crowds didn't want to boo Cena and the heel turn didn't work without the Rock. It was Austin after WM X7 all over again. There's too many midcard belts. The womens midcard belts are nothing special.There's too many tournaments. Random triple threat tourneys to crown no. 1 contenders
>>19229375You want an example? The Dexter Lumis stalker angle was directly taken from an angle worked by XPW and NWA using the same guy. You want a suggestion for how it should change? Sell it to someone other than TKO, that is literally the only thing that will help. Also, I want to ask you a question, little piggiE: Do you think ANYONE who works for TKO would get this angry in your defense? Look at you, you're absolutely seething right now over some greedy ass jew company that doesn't give one fiddler's fuck if you live or die.
>>19229509no. the issue is that WWE is spinning their wheels doing more of the same... except splitting up how to watch their shows and putting them behind increasingly expensive paywalls.The PLEs are mostly the same but audiences have a different reaction to an ok show is they paid $10 vs paying $30Raw is basically the same as it was on USA... thats the problem. The Netflix era didn't innovate, didn't change the format, its just now behind its own separate paywall.
>>19229521So your big revelation is that a bunch of things should be changed, not because of any quantifiable reasons - like you believe they would bring more casuals back, or lead to higher merchandise sales, or would lead to more engagement on social media - but because you personally think they sucked or weren't planned well or made someone look bad. Very insightful stuff.>Cody dethroned Roman and HHH had no big heels ready to challenge him. AJ and KO gave him good matches but so what?Stuff like this for example, this is meaningless. This is literally worth less than a pile of dog shit. Who was on the roster at the time that could and should have been elevated? Who should have been facing Cena in the Main event of multiple PLEs other than AJ and KO? Who are "big heels" in the system now that you believe should be fast-tracked?It's like your mind is stuck in this weird fucking area where you cannot even comprehend discussing wrestling on something other than a sucks-based continuum. Timelines, the wrestlers, specific event names, explanations. Nobody will ever give a fucking flying fuck about who you personally like or dislike or what title reigns you didn't enjoy, or wants to fucking sit here and try to convince you that Gunther's reign was actually good. Say something that matters.
>>19227446The Rock
>>19229567fine speech
>>19228740obese smelly smarks didn't like this TRVKE
>>19229533>I just don't think he's a good running back>I don't care what his stats are or what the film looks like or that he doesn't miss blocks on passing plays>I just personally don't have a good feeling about him and I want him goneThis is what your faggot ass sounds like discussing wrestling. It's all personal feelings and no ability to discuss any other metrics like fan engagement, because the moment those other things are brought up, you do more of your little faggot act you're doing right now and crying about TKO or some other corporation.You do this faggot act because you know that AEW's dogshit stars aren't known for visiting children's hospitals, for doing charity, for signing stacks of thousands of 8x10s, for doing anything other than the bare minimum. So talking about all the things that wrestling involves other than showing up and having matches exposes your favorite people on the earth (faggy flippydoo shitters) as being just as selfish and dickheaded as you are.
>>19229537Why in the holy hell would you land a $5,000,000,000 deal to be on Netflix only to turn around and change the exact formula that led to you getting a $5,000,000,000 deal to be on Netflix? You all think I'm taking "WWE criticism" so seriously, but what I'm offended by is the obviously awful logical reasoning at play here. You don't give Shohei Ohtani $70M/year to sign him away from the Angels, and then convert him into a 3rd baseman. Why the fuck would WWE need to immediately change on Day 1 of being on Netflix? That's something you wouldn't even broach until 24+ months into the deal once you have a better idea of what the altered landscape looks like."innovation" is not a fucking light-switch, it's an ongoing process. Entrances during commercial breaks are being tested, different camera angles during matches and backstage segments. Pro wrestling is not something that started 5 years ago, it's a damn near finished product at this point. If there were so many "innovations" out there that were so plain as day to see, then AEW, NJPW, CMLL and others would already be doing them right now, beating WWE to the punch. What's left would be the ones which are cost-prohibitive which would be foolish to start throwing yourself into at the beginning of a deal on a new platform.You dance with the one that brung you and adjust accordingly. Criticizing specific changes they've made or haven't made is an extremely valid and productive conversation. Simply stating "they haven't innovated" is, once again, worth less than a steaming pile of dog shit and means nothing.
>>19227446When they priced out the fans who actually like wrestling and turned the shows into fuckin singalongs/crowd participation/HEY I'M ON TV TOOfags. When you can get $300 for a nosebleed from someone who's happy just to act like they're at a Taylor Swift concert or in the crowd at College Gameday, why try harder? Someone will pay the price of a new pickup truck to sit next to Green Smiley Shirt Guy in Vegas for some slop sabotaged by Rocky for the 3rd straight yr. Enjoy your Netflix/ESPN/Peacock subscriptions, drones.Not that I care about AEW; I get my news from them a week later from Cornette, maybe a day later from Alvarez & Lance
>Comedy meme wrestlers like Dom and Chelsea are double champions Grim, I dare say.
>>19229820>singalongs/crowd participation/HEY I'M ON TV TOOfags...so just like the Attitude Era then.
All of those niggas look the same, and you wouldn't be racist for saying so.
>>19227446Triple gay can't write. He thinks guy 1 beating guy 2 in a match and guy 2 interfering in guy 1's match with guy 3 and then GM booking a triple threat with all 3 is an amazing storyline that needs to be repeated every month. There are no segments that give personality to the wrestlers anymore, everything is either a match or a backstage segment with the interviewer or the GM where nothing of note happens. You can replace the wrestlers in each segment without anyone noticing, it's all so cookie cutter generic crap. Sami got hugely over with the bloodline honorary uce segments, that shit just doesn't happen anymore.
>>19229973No, AE didn't sing along unless it was a 'show your tits' chant. Yeah, they were 'participating' but it was an ENTIRELY different vibe (I went to 2 of the ATL Raw shows in 99 & 00). It was affluent families, corporates and neckbeards w/credit cards. It was fuckin horndogs/hookupgirls/fratrats crowds; the ringside was civil to a point but GA was like time trials at Talladega Speedway: drunk guys and drunk bitches imitating Girls Gone Wild. At least when WWF came to ATL or Bama. I didn't stick around when the WCW/ECW guys came & the g'dam WHAT chants. The Fed had cleaned up by limiting beer and cracking down on boobies. In the audience, anyway. Only time we'd have done that yeet shit is if Torrie or Stacy was wiggling their ass to the chant. I still don't even know WTF yeet means anyway. Like monka or other zoomer slang
>>19228161Yo I'm in the same boat man>>19228166Thanks brother, but wouldn't WM38 - WM40 make slightly more sense? Cody's full arc and all that
>>19230085Aldis and Pearce basically doing a Teddy after the opening quibbles. At least Haitch doesn't have someone do 30 min soliloquies like he used to do by time South Park KWABed their ass
>>19230136*NOW it's affluent families...
>>19230153yeah if you want cody's full arc go from wm38 on. I feel like there is a huge shift after summerslam 2022 (for the better) so that's also a good starting point
>>19229339No they weren't associated in any way. Paul just knows the gong is an instant gigapop so he put it in for no reason just like WM40. Rhea won the title, walked back up the ramp, then the gong hit and here comes Taker doing a lap or two around the ring and that was that. It was the most retarded thing I ever saw.
>>19230085This is the biggest problem, there are no characters or gimmicks. Like the one we have is the Wyatts and they got cooled off right away.
>>19227446Cena
>>19227446Literally the only issue is John Cena's retirement tour going off the rails because of Dwayne. Also some injuries but that couldn't be helped.
>>19229485>-TKO got even greedier by putting Raw on Netflix, SD on cable, adding SNME (when HHH has no ideas), putting the PLEs on ESPN+Every sports league does this.
>>19229521>He booked a Scottish PLE and then had the Scottish hero LOSE in the main event thanks to a babyface acting like a heelThat was a based moment, and if you had a problem with it, you're a dumbass mark who doesn't understand wrestling.>He couldn't let Priest lose clean and it tainted Gunther's coronation.It didn't at all, and that was also based.
