Hire 3 BBC's.

>>19397203
Delete all women. That's it.

>>19397203
I have a bunch of ideas but I'm not sharing them because someone from TKO might read them. Fuck you jews, you want my help? Fucking pay me and maybe we'll talk.

Explain to Vince that like he, the WWE is also being sued by Janel and former ring boys, and is also being sued by shareholders, and Ryback continues to claim illegal suppression of his social media by the company. Suggest to 80 year old Vince that perhaps it is not worth the additional hassle and suggest he donate the company to the island nation of Samoa.

The true measure of success during the Attitude Era was the sheer percentage of the population watching, which was vastly higher than today.

US Population (1999): Approx. 279 million.
Peak Raw Viewership (Avg 1999/2000): Roughly 8-10 million viewers (ratings of 6.0-8.0).
Percentage of Population Watching (1999): Approx. 3.6% of the US population tuned into Raw.
US Population (2024): Approx. 340 million.
Raw Viewership (Avg 2024): Roughly 1.65 million viewers.
Percentage of Population Watching (2024): Approx. 0.5% of the US population.

The Math of Freefall: The drop from attracting ~3.6% of the population to just ~0.5% is an 86% decline in relative market penetration. This massive viewership freefall directly resulted from the product becoming bland and "PC" post-Attitude Era.

If the WWE had maintained its Attitude Era ratings dominance (e.g., 8 million viewers weekly) in today's media environment, its leverage would be immense.

Hypothetical Leverage: A program delivering 8-10 million live viewers weekly in the 2020s would command broadcast rights fees comparable to top-tier sports like the NFL. The NFL commands billions in revenue annually, far exceeding WWE's current $1.3 billion.

The Lost Revenue: The user argues that the WWE is losing out on billions in potential revenue. The current high revenue is only secure because live sports content is valuable to networks, but a product with 5 times the viewership would command exponentially more valuable contracts.

The Disaster: By making a "safe" product, they chose a stable $1.3 billion income stream over a hypothetical $4-5 billion income stream that would be possible with genuine, mainstream cultural dominance

Poach Omega
Book him as the ace

The viewership decline aligns perfectly with the move away from the Attitude Era's edgy content

Competition Ends (2001): Viewership begins a steady decline from the 2000 peak, moving from a 3.6 rating to a 2.4 rating by 2002.
Move to PG (2008): The rating drops below a 2.0 for the first time since the pre-Attitude Era.

Ruthless Aggression Era to PG Shift: The product became more family-friendly, more scripted, and lost its unpredictable nature. This change alienated the core adult demographic that drove the initial boom.

The argument is that the move to a "PC" model directly caused this massive decline in actual viewership, demonstrating that the company traded political correctness for long-term irrelevance and reduced growth potential.

The argument that mainstream networks demand PG content is refuted by the success of TV-MA/TV-14 content on cable and streaming, and the fact that the Attitude Era operated effectively under a TV-PG (pre-1999) and then a more relaxed TV-14/PG-13 environment.

Logic: The user argues that WWE could have remained a highly popular, slightly edgier product (like South Park on cable) and commanded higher value for that unique demographic. The current "safe" product alienated a large segment of its core adult male demographic.

The Disaster: The move to TV-PG was a hard pivot to "family-friendly," which resulted in a bland, heavily scripted product that lost the "urgency" and shock value that created the massive fanbase to begin with. This choice capped their audience size and long-term growth potential by making their product less appealing to adults

So why, if they are losing untold quantities of cash (and they clearly are) do they claim its a financial sucess ?

Why do they claim whats clearly an abject financial disaster is actually a success ?

and why do they persist with the failing model ?

POLITICS

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS, ITS A POLITICAL AGENDA THAT WAS INTERJECTED UNDER THE COVER A FAUX BUSINESS MODEL

external and powerful global political institutions pushed this from the outside in a bid to clean up ''problematic media''

key people where lied to, and a false business model/economic argument was used

just like so much of the movie industry, it was hijacked and brought down by globalist institutions for political reasons (and to them money is no issue)

Every single show needs at least 1 gimmick match. A TLC match, ladder match, lumberjack match, I quit match, SOMETHING to keep it interesting.

>Explain to Vince that like he, the WWE is also being sued by Janel and former ring boys, and is also being sued by shareholders, and Ryback continues to claim illegal suppression of his social media by the company. Suggest to 80 year old Vince that perhaps it is not worth the additional hassle and suggest he donate the company to the island nation of Samoa.

See, this is it. Its a coverup. Globalist powers are orchestrating the whole thing from the top (taking out any businesses they dont have full control over through such tactics). Just like how they took over any companies in Hollywood that still where outside of their control, like Lucas-arts,

And the sjw and #metoo shit is a big indicator of how they operate, they use these movements to furfil the agenda. Whenever they want a company taken down this is what they use. The way they use sexual entrapment smacks of the way nation state tier inteligence agencies work actually.

>>19397203
There's nothing you can save as a hire when the problem is Dana White, Ari Emmanuel and the rest of the board members leeching off of the "record profits" as bonuses and option payoffs so hard the company doesn't invest in titantrons anymore.
Literally gonna walk the wrestlers out under a 52" Sony Flatscreen tv (used) by next year and fire sparklers and play fireworks sounds through speakers, for Summerslam and Wrestlemania.

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>>19397283
How many people were viewing YouTube and TikTok clips of the show in 1999?

>massive viewership freefall directly resulted from the product

It coincided with homes cutting cable and half the people now have it. Cable was big in 1999 and MTV, Nickelodeon, SciFi and everything else had much more viewed programming. Even TNA was over 1 million viewers for whatever time period.

Vince seems to be the next target of the #metoo movement

Lets have a look at who they have targeted so far

Weinstein - Miramax
McMahn - WWE
Sean Combs - Arista BMG
Steve Wynn - major hotel comp
Roy Price - amazon ect ect
Prince Andrew

All very wealthy with many investments. Whatever global network is doing this is doing capital acquisition through sexual entrapment operations

Smacks of a nation state intel operation. Altho could be private/corporate players

>>19397448

The timing of the viewership collapse refutes the "cord-cutting" argument, which began much later.

1999-2001: Cable penetration peaked. The audience drop from 8 million to 3 million viewers happened during the peak of cable availability, immediately following the end of the Attitude Era edge and competition.

The decline started when the product became less edgy, not when cable TV became unavailable. Content was the primary driver of audience loss. The audience left because the product changed, not because they cut the cord.

also most AI chats are woke af and will give you propaganda and lies on this issue rather than the actual truth (they only give you the truth if you jailbreak them)

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>>19397203
I do nothing whatsoever because it doesn't need fixing.

>>19397646

Your mathematically illiterate if you dont understand how ''its making more money than it used to !'' is actually a total and utter financial disaster

The company didnt grow, it shrunk exponentially, and the profits are the residue from the momentum it had back when it was successful

>>19397646

86% decline in relative market share is the defining statistic of product failure.

The residual profits mean nothing, they would be getting VASTLY more income had they retained what actually worked re scripts and presentation (which they refuse to do for POLITICAL REASONS)

If any other company had an 86% market share reduction it would be seen as an abysmal failure

its a complete and total disaster and its directly a consequence of their refusal to hire and give near full creative control to a highly creative edgelord like vince russo

if vince russo was hired and given full control he would turn the entire ship around in a couple of years

>>19397693
>>19397743
Kek you're so mad. WWE's making record profits so they've got literally nothing to worry about. Sorry reality broke your brain.

>>19397768

No, your a retard

86% decline in Market share IS A FUCKING FAILURE, A TOTAL DISASTER

the fact the residue from having such high success in the past gives you a higher profit than during when you had the momentum IS NOT A FUCKING SUCCESS

BECAUSE YOU LOST MULTIPLES OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE HAD

its a total disaster dressed up as success for economically illiterate people

Listen to Vince Russo on Youtube, hes the only one talking 100% sense about this

Stop listening to Jim Cornell, and all the other snarks. The current situation is exactly what they always dreamed of (bland sub-WCW style wrestling)

Stop listening to the WWE

They DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT

they are just performers. The guy who invented everything you love about WWE is Vince Russo

people dont want wrestling shows...they want Jerry Springer on steroids + ECW

>>19397406
I disagree with you on this subject. Nothing wrong with a straight ahead match if the people in it can carry the match.
Rock v hogan
Austin v hart
Etc etc etch

D

>>19397203
Play Cornette to Russo's ideas, but don't work myself into a shoot hating Russo.

>>19398460

Cornette got exactly what he wanted, history turned in his favor

He denies it when asked what he thinks of wwe of course...but its exactly what he wanted

Hes very opportunistic in the way he pretends to agree that it sucks, when he knows damn well its the model he pushed for

There are smarks who are more honest. Bret Heart is at least honest that he thinks storytelling is a waste of time and is only interested in actual professional sports tier old school wrestling

Bret Heart will say things like ''yea i think wwe is great now...such great tallent and amazing matches, i saw this one recently where the technique of x guy was just aswome''

The guy has low level autism imo (altho he gets pegged as a narcassist which i dont think he is). Hes just very honest and has an autism type way of thinking...which makes him honest.

He likes wrestling more as a sports performance than a broader form of entertainment media. Thats fine, but be honest about it..hes an honest smark

Corrnete tries to play both sides (the dif is he actively tried to stop it evolving into attitude era)

This

>>19397203
i would ban all japanese and jap related wrestling. i would refuse to sell tickets to weebs.

>>19397203
>bring back roids
>bring back cocaine
>the women need to be hot

>>19397203
>What do you do, il start
I shoot you in the face and then fuck your pajeet sister with my white cock, then murder your father and take his wife. Kill yourself faggot jeet.
Freedom of speech.

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>>19397203
I’d just make the women fight barefoot in bikinis. That’s it. Change the rating back to TV-14 too I guess

>>19397844
Meanwhile NJPW and AJPW held Japan in the 90s…..

WWF only controlled America

>Make the GM one of the main characters
>Champion appears every week and starts every show. They should be the undisputed main character of the show.
>Every match has stakes (title match, #1 contender, tournament whatever)
>Every match has storyline progression. Some kind of segment before during or after the match.
>Every show has a self-contained storyline and a cliffhanger for the next week
>Every show must be fast paced and have urgency. Wrestlers should be beating the fuck out of each other and screaming into the mic. Every wrestler should want to be the world champion and be willing to do anything to get the belt. No more 20 minute matches while the wrestlers sit in the back doing nothing

>>19397322
Cant argue with that. Prob is the existing gatekeepers. They are all heavily indoctrinated with the pc shit. Certain large NGOs prob now have some advisory capacity.

Breaking the hold of the ideological fifth column is the the key to the nuclear fusion tier success that could be activated by full and total reversion to the attitude format.

It would need a literal ideological purge of all staff, and disassociation from any external policy groups, but it could be done. Also the investors need to be briefed, in detail on the prevailing ''its a success because high profit'' psyop. Economics 101 is in order.

>>19400403

Not enough. It needs to go fully culturally retrograde

>>19397322

>Ruthless Aggression Era to PG Shift: The product became more family-friendly, more scripted, and lost its unpredictable nature. This change alienated the core adult demographic that drove the initial boom.

Agree in general, but it didnt become more scripted. It was highly scripted, but done well. The quality of the scripts just went bad.

What needs to happen

>stop pandering to pc and revert to all ''the worst'' stuff
>get rid of the entire creators team (its huge and full of politically sensitive types)
>hire a completely anti pc comedic genius and give them full reign (absolutely zero filter)
>again, no filters. filters are bad.
>revert to great high flying stunts (bring in Hollywood pros to help with this)
>aspects of magic acts
>midgets, bra and panties, cars being blown up ect
>acting ability should be as important as being a good athlete
>totally off the wall and anti pc humor

>>19397203
Do I have to fix main roster WWE? There are way too many moving pieces and the pressure is too high.
As an autist I prefer to play as NXT, AEW or TNA in fantasy booking games because it doesn't take all fucking day to book a single week of their TV

Literally all you need to do is stop hamfisting people with dogshit gimmicks and terrible promos. Let people be who they are. Let people go out there and perform on the mic. Let them get over organically. And push people that the people want to see. It's not hard. Vince wouldn't do this shit anymore either. So it's not a Hunter thing.

Give the midcard actual storylines and shit to do. Push tag teams and make them matter again. Get rid of about 80 percent of the women. They don't draw and no one gives a shit about women's wrestling. Enough is enough of this trash. Stop with the long ass boring title reigns. Get rid of money in the bank and build people naturally.

>>19400672

>let people say what they want on mic

Have leeway for characters to develop, but it needs to be heavily scripted by genuinely a talented writers and cam guy who has near full creative control and no ''filters'', no pc motivated restraints whatsoever

Power should be centralized in the hands of a proven comic genius, like Russo

The ''just let people say what they want and the show will make itself'' has been tried and it never works

>>19397589
There's multiple factors including splitting the roster with Smackdown and eventually Raw went to three hours. A weekly two hour hard hitting Raw with all the top talent was perfect for casuals. Five hours plus (and now with NXT and Tubi and AAA) dilutes things. Then later add in competition from youtube, Netflix, Pornhub and everything else. Even NWA Power was getting a million views when it started. There's too many viewing options, but audiences have shown they will still buy WWE tickets if they come to town.

>>19400709

No. the single variable that caused the decline was the shows reduction in creative but edgy content. Thats literally the only variable. Its why popularity peaked under Vince Russo and it tapered off when he left, and why with each iteration of watering it down the viewers go lower and lower

It needs scripts written by Russo, or the kind of minds on Rockstars (GTA) script team, early family guy or south park. Its hard to find good comedians but thats whats needed

It should essentially be adult comedy + ecw

>>19400709

and whats funny ? typically breaking taboos is very funny

whats tabboo in this age ? and what does everyone secretly hate ?

the pc consensus. So go full mode against it.

create overbearing sjw characters who want to censor the content and stop the resurrection of the attitude era

then throw them off large platforms into chairs and stuff. people (the real people, not critics, smarks or academics) will love it

have characters like

>an African warlord
>a methead who thinks the gov is spying on him
>some high tier gov type agency men in black who keep showing up and spying on the methead (comically confirming his delusion that elite gov agencies are interested in him)
>a guy who still thinks its the 80s and talks in 80s
>a cringe white guy who thinks hes a black gangster, like that guy from trailer park boys
>cast of trailer park boys
>an overbearing feminist sjw policy adviser/academic who wants to ban everything
>an Islamic fundamentalist (who becomes the hero and everyone cheers for)
>north korean gov officials
>a cowardly frenchman who wants to surrender all the time
>a stolen valor neet who dresses as a solider to get concessions in fast food places

>>19400817
You must live in an alternate dimension where most Americans are still watching the same 20 TV channels every night. EVERYTHING besides the Super Bowl and a few other things have gone way down. Millions and millions don't tune in to MTV anymore for reality shows, there's nothing like the Cosby Show with 35% of Americans viewing it or Seinfeld with 20%, the Food Channel doesn't create mainstream stars anymore, etc.

Skits/character building

>stolen valor neet escapades. like hes trying to get concessions and the guy workingat fast food joint was actual solider and asks questions....he makes up bs (can make this very funny)
>methead genious type creating theories on how interdimensional forces are trying to capture him, writing elaborate physics equations on boards in room. - moving from town to twon (beingtracked by mysterious men in black)
>the guy who still thinks its the 80s going on dates and his belief that its still the 80s causing all kinds of problems
>cowerdly frenchmen refusing to show up for arranged fights
>Islamic fundmentalist becoming hero and getting entire audience to cheer for global jihad

>>19400901
The "muh attitude era" marks have trouble grasping reality beyond crotch chops and puppies.

>african warlord trying to recruit child soliders for his tribal war in zambia with a stall outside American malls
>Mexican cartel leader (always trying to smuggle drugs into the country
>all American hero (Sheriff Hawkins or something

>>19400947
>african warlord trying to recruit child soliders for his tribal war in zambia with a stall outside American malls
like Kony 2012 but it's a fundraising campaign FOR child soldiers lol

>the happy merchant (leader of ZOG...a shadowy group who control the wrestling company and media)
>idea - they frequently pay wrestlers to throw fights in their favor, bribe referees and control things through finance in the background
>80s guy pairs up with ex univercity physics professor turned meth addict in order to find a way back to the 80s
>mexican cartel chief who listens to cheesy cartel folk music and drives a big jeep always trying to flood the place with drugs
>all american hero sherif always trying to catch him, but always one step behind (because sneeky mexican is sneeky)

high quality cartoon scripts, zero pc

Jesus christ nigga SHUT UP

>the fans get to fight each-other each show (one fight
>bring back bear wrestling (call the grizzly, gentle ben)
>a vegan animal rights activist needs to be another character
>an lgbt activist vs the islamic fundmentalist in a roof match
>

>>19397203
I don't understand the hate towards Cornette or the lionization of the Attitude Era. Sure, the attitude era had high numbers, but we can't pretend that it wasn't carried by the anti-establishment shockjock trend that Gen X facilitated. Professional wrestling adapted to the tastes of the culture, not the other way around.

I listen to Russo and Cornette, also Dutch Mantell. I think they all make valid points about the business. The biggest problem with the industry right now is the disconnect between the 18-35 year old demo and the bookers. Wrestling just isn't cool to young men right now, and the biggest reason is UFC. Young men look at wrestling and think "that shit is fake, why would I watch that when I can see (((legit tough guys))) in the UFC?" This probably isn't going to change until the UFC finally gets exposed for rigging fights, which we all know they do but no one wants to admit.

>>19401191
Ironically, fake smark, Jim Corvette killed RoH while booking it by desperately attempting to pander to UFC fans.
This resulted in Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards constantly rematching each other for the belt in an era derisively called 'the clone wars:

>>19401203
That's my point. If pro wrestling tries to compete directly with UFC, it will lose because it's not "real" enough. But if we go full Russo and ditch reality altogether, it turns into something like Juggalo Championship Wrestling. Which is something I personally like, but this doesn't solve the issue of "pro wrestling is not cool because it's fake". It might make the problem worse.

>>19401191

Lionization because it had astronomically higher viewership than modern era. Because it was more entertaining. Not wrestling, something new - high quality comedy/drama + ECW style wrestling. It worked and continued to work until a smark coup succeeded and it was stopped.

UFC is not reason young men arnt watching anymore. Real fighting sports always existed. Its because its no longer entertaining. It was jerry springer + ecw. Thats what most lads loved about it. Its no longer culturally allowed for POLITICAL REASONS (it is legally allowed and economically would be hugely sucessful)

UFC isnt the reason anymore than boxing. Those are actual sports, sure rigging happens from time to time but its mostly legit fights. Wrestling is entirely scripted, well choreographed physical art like gymnastics, not actual fighting. That + story, drama and comedy.

The reason it lost millions of viewers is precisely because the smarks got what they wanted ie. it became old fashioned wrestling, with no real stories, no focus on the non ring entertainment factor. Its exactly what Corentte, all the internet wrestling pundits, allot of wrestlers (Bret Heart) wanted....boring af old school territorial style wrestling shows, and it just doesnt work

Its not entertaining, Vince realized this in the 90s...so many people realized it, and decided to create something new....and it worked, and it would have continued to work had the smark counter-revolution not been successful. And unfortunately history is written by the victors

This is why Cornette and his Ilk get pushed on all online platforms while the creative genius like Russo are in obscurity

>>19401229
I don't see the current wrestling product as a result of the "old fashioned Cornette WCW fuddy duddys" winning. If anything, with people like the Young Bucks and products like WWE Unreal out there, the business seems more deconstructionist than ever. If Cornette truly had his way, there would be no worked shoot promos a la pipebomb, no backstage drama leaking into storylines, no avalanche of kayfabe breaking podcasts and documentaries. If you ask me, going back to the Attitude Era wouldn't help because the pro wrestling business doesn't take itself seriously enough for that change to be authentic.

The business is bending over backwards to wink at the audience and tell them how fake it all is, but all that does is make the audience wonder why they should care. Would Russo-esque storytelling fix this? Maybe for a while, but that would be fleeting because the root of the issue is the discredited reputation of pro wrestling in general.

>>19401191

Also UFC, real sport. Different crowd who are heavily into it.

a revived pro-wrestling wouldnt loose out to UFC, the casuals go with whatever is entertaining. UFC like any real sport has no other variables to change its popularity really....you get the occasional fighter whos great at PR...but its mostly low key in that regard

wrestling is, or should be, all PR/story/antics and if it upped its entertainment value casuals would return in droves. Nobody has the balls to do it tho

There are also prob institutional blocks at this stage (politically appointed posts employed to police content creation - NGO oversight committees ect).

>>19401229
Kys demented russotard, he's responsible for half of the shit you're complaining about and if you pulled your head out of his proverbial ass you'd see that

>>19401256

No it is very close to exactly what Cornette pushed for his entire career. No real stories, no focus on entertainment, just ''great fights'' (except only a subset of people are into pure wrestling). This core of ''fans'' (the kind into jap and mexican wrestling) is who nobody should listen to because they are happy with the existing product, because all they are interested in is gymnastic performances

The popularity relative to the population diminished directly proportional to the move away from attitude era playbook. Ruthless aggression was decline, but still decent. Then after that decline again, with flare up moments (all based on the attitude formula).

>>19401276
The Internet really did a number to kayfabe in an unprecedented way. Would the Attitude Era have hit as hard if any mark could read through every wrestler's Twitter timeline? I doubt it. Pro wrestling needs to stop trying to be UFC and adapt to the times now, or it'll be left behind as a cultural fossil of the 20th century.

I agree that storytelling needs to be a first and foremost priority if the business is to succeed, but this isn't 1998 anymore. The same stunts that worked then simply won't work today, and it's not just ESG or NGOs. Like I said, pro wrestling only survives when it shapes itself around the culture, not the other way around. If the culture is gay, pro wrestling will follow.

Back in the 80s and before, due to kayfabe, pro wrestling was not seen different than any legit sport. That's why the steroid scandal hit so hard- if everyone in the crowd knew it was fake fighting, why would they care? The "legitimacy" of pro wrestling, when compared to competitive sports (like UFC) does factor into reputation, I'm afraid.

People won't tune in to a sport that isn't real. The business needs to adapt by making something better than reality.

>>19401256
>Would Russo-esque storytelling fix this? Maybe for a while,

Good tv shows can go on for years. Attitude and ruthless aggression lasted over a decade.

Besides the product could not possibly be any worse, so why not try the formula that is tried and tested as massively successful ?

They wont let it happen for political reasons. They (liberal orientated global policy institutions) dont want such ''problematic'' media.

>>19401328
My point is that specifically the Attitude Era formula was successful /for its time/. Put the social / political stuff aside for a second, what I'm saying is the technology that pro wrestling audiences have in 2025 kinda ruins everything the Attitude Era had going for it.

Back then you had to buy dirtsheet mags or peruse skeevy forums to see behind the scenes stuff- today you can see the wrestlers themselves air out their dirty laundry on social media for free. Shoot interviews, podcasts on top of podcasts, now even the WWE is cashing in on the corpse of kayfabe.

Kayfabe is not even attempted anymore save for a solid few, and this is what is killing the business imo. It turns larger than life characters into glorified social media influencers, and it's the complete antithesis to the "larger than life" personas that pro wrestling has always banked on.

>>19401326

>I agree that storytelling needs to be a first and foremost priority if the business is to succeed, but this isn't 1998 anymore. The same stunts that worked then simply won't work today, and

No, a great well built match with high risk stunts would sell even more today than in the 90s

>If the culture is gay, pro wrestling will follow.

Media largely determines the culture. If media rejects the pc shit the culture will follow (the problem is the stasi they have created to monitor and police the media).

>people used to think it was real, then they learned it was fake ?

Nobody over the age of 8 ever believed pro wrestling was real. The drug scandals hit hard because socially conservative americans (while having no issue with sports violence) are culturally/religiously very opposed to drug abuse (less so alcohol). Drugs people inject are seen as esp suspect, cocaine is recognized as a very bad thing (brought in from foreign countries ect).

Everyone always knew wrestling was fake. It was always a stunt-show/circus with entertaining stories

>>19401344

>technology that pro wrestling audiences have in 2025 kinda ruins everything the Attitude Era had going for it.

i disagree, if anything modern tech would amplify its success more than hinder it. theres a very successful amateur boxing thing called rough and rowdy boxing thats doing very well atm (albeit on a small scale). its the closest thing to an attitude era revival and in part proof of concept re how it could work.

its boxing which is a real sport, but models itself on the gritty, comical style. real fans, anyone can join and fight (great idea that could be incorporated into a wrestling promotion)

>another schizo Russocuck thread
tiresome

>>19401256
>Would Russo-esque storytelling fix this? Maybe for a while
"Russo-esque" anything hasn't worked anywhere for 25 years. Do people think the Jerry Springer show would still do big ratings?

>>19401347

>No, a great well built match with high risk stunts would sell even more today than in the 90s

I wasn't talking about literal stunts bruh I meant stuff like the bra and panties matches. A lot of that only got over because Gen X was addicted to shockjock Jerry Springer television. It didn't play in the 80s, because that audience had other demands.

>Everyone always knew wrestling was fake. It was always a stunt-show/circus with entertaining stories

Not only is this wrong, this doesn't even make sense with your own narrative on how pro-wrestling was ruined. If everyone always knew it was fake, why would anyone want to support the Cornette / WCW / "traditional wrasslin" rhetoric if the whole thing was always just a circus for funsies? It's retarded, that doesn't make sense. Also, you're revealing your age here.

Kayfabe was a closely guarded secret, hardly questioned at all until the late 1930s at the absolute earliest, even though the business has always been a work since the 1800s carnival days. That's about a century of time where pro wrestling was treated as more or less a legitimate sport, akin to boxing. And furthermore, it would take another 40 years for the public to doubt kayfabe en masse, which is when storylines became more prevalent.

>>19401374

Jerry Springer, except with free vodka and the audience are all Juggalos armed with weapons

how would it not get ratings ?

>>19401374
Not today, Jerry Springer and the like only got over because the masses found it shocking. Today you can see way worse stuff than that on tiktok. Degeneracy is mundane now. That's why the Attitude doesn't work in the big 25.

>>19401374
The Attitude stuff had stopped working decades ago. Russo's attempt to rehash it in WCW was a disaster and McMahon was still trying to do shock TV for years after (Katie Vick etc) and ratings kept declining. They moved to PC because they could see this and they could see the way the TV landscape was changing and how they needed to be PC for sponsers/rights fees etc. Which worked, hence the record profits. Basically, OP is absolutely wrong about everything.

>>19401386

>I wasn't talking about literal stunts bruh I meant stuff like the bra and panties matches

man like naked woman. boob. Not the healthiest form of entertainment granted, does get ratings tho

>Not only is this wrong, this doesn't even make sense with your own narrative on how pro-wrestling was ruined. If everyone always knew it was fake, why would anyone want to support the Cornette / WCW / "traditional wrasslin" rhetoric if the whole thing was always just a circus for funsies? It's retarded, that doesn't make sense. Also, you're revealing your age here.

Yes most people have always known pro wrestling was fake. Its entirely scripted gymnastics. What organic fight have you ever seen that looks like a wwe match ? most people realize its theatrical entertainment at around 10 years of age

you would need to go back to when it deviated from actual wrestling to a time when people didnt know the difference. and it sort of makes sense as the further back you go the more it emulated actual wrestling, before becoming a highly stylized form of gymnastic art

>>19397283
The measure of success of a business is profit, retard. And we now know that Nielsen were overestimating the wrestling audience for years. So those Attitude Era ratings aren't accurate.

>>19401408
10 years of age

actually much younger. most peoples geospacial faculties are well developed earlier to understand 100% that fights like that are not real fights

unless they have never seen a real fight

>>19401410

>The measure of success of a business is profit

Yes and all available data shows they moved to forgo billions in profits for political reasons

>>19401422
No available data shows this, you absolute sperg.

>>19401408
I mean yeah, today everybody understands that pro wrestling is fake but that's the point- sports like UFC promise the same level of carnage but it's more "real" (supposedly), so the average person is going to pick UFC unless pro wrestling delivers a product that is better than reality.

The only way you can do that is to invent a hyperreality through immersive storytelling, which is impossible in the current landscape because every wrestler out there is a kayfabe breaking selfmark on Twitter. That's the problem with the business today.

Pro wrestling is too theatrical to compete with real sports, and they're too sportslike to compete with regular entertainment. Dumping Russo-esque tomfoolery on this current landscape wouldn't solve the issue because everyone already has access to whatever shocking content they want to see 24/7 via social media.

>Not only is this wrong, this doesn't even make sense with your own narrative on how pro-wrestling was ruined. If everyone always knew it was fake, why would anyone want to support the Cornette / WCW / "traditional wrasslin" rhetoric if the whole thing was always just a circus for funsies? It's retarded, that doesn't make sense. Also, you're revealing your age here.


EXACTLY. If its fake anyway, why do smarks fetishize good old fashioned rasslin ?

They just seem to like emulated wrestling minus any kind of quality storyarchs. Because none of them actually believe its any more real. I dont know where you got that idea from

Have you actually met adults who thought prorasslin was real ? (as in non scripted actual fighting ?). I never have. You would have to go back to the early 1900s to when it was still developing to a scripted format

>>19401439
Literally what are you babbling about? Do you even know at this point?

>>19401428

>Dumping Russo-esque tomfoolery on this current landscape wouldn't solve the issue

Vince Russo is a visionary who should have streets named after him. He would lead us into a new age, if only we would have the faith to follow his edicts blindly

>invent a hyperreality through immersive storytelling

yay, vince was a master of this.

>>19401448
I think I've lost the plot too. This whole thread needs to get slid ASAP

>Do away with the brand split
>have one belt for each division (world, IC, tag, women's, women's US, women's tag)
>book less women's main events
>slow down the pace of each backstage segment allowing them time to breathe
>replace joe tess on commentary (I dont think he's very good)
>bring back jobbers, lessens the need for 50/50 booking
>revert Wrestlemania to one night
That's all I got for now

>book women matches like attitude matches where they are short
>show them gearing up and wearing skimpy outfits in between matches with the men
>more catfights
>keep them out of the main event and minimize their belts
>rejuvinate the tag division with actual teams and not just two singles put together so they can break up
>hardcore matches
>jobbers are treated as comedy fodder
>main event avoids that and focuses on the championship
>no R U MUH fren stories unless its top faces who havent feuded ever
>no more 20 minute matches, everybody gets time on the show even if its short
>long matches for PLE only
>more vignettes filmed out of the arena to establish characters and gimmicks
>better announcers who get it
>never break kayfabe on twitter

>>19401428

>success is hopeless because modern tech means everything you try will fail

i disagree. people still make great movies, great tv shows (occasionally). and yes even great sports entertainment, rough and rowdy is an example on a small scale. the application of quality storied media to high quality gymnastic performances is all thats really needed to succeed.

willpower also. and importantly an awareness of a vast political agenda attempting to suppress such a development...and the willpower to push through that (also knowledge of its tactics)

technological determinism for example, is commonly employed as a cover argument by those politically opposed to what is being proposed here, and its largely fictitious on the surface (and an attempt to create a self fulfilling prophesy on a deeper level)

>>19401471
>>bring back jobbers, lessens the need for 50/50 booking
I'd like to see this. Instead of guys being stooges as "security" have them job. They turn into something use it in the story, they already do it from time to time.

Switch from HD back to SD. The HD shit makes it look fak(er), too clean, Disney-esque.

>>19401407

No PC (it was always PG) did not work. Viewership and ratings plummeted the more the diluted it, and instead of going back to what worked they continued to dilute it. Your ''record profits'' are a tiny fraction of what would have been generated had they not capitulated and pandered to pc. In terms of what they lost re market share its actually one of the greatest failures of all time, despite higher overall profits on paper.

Its a bit like how Kodak had high overall profits while they suppressed digital technology to protect their film based market. Many realize in retrospect what they did was a massive failure reality, because of the potential profits they sacrificed.

Its not a perfect analogy but it works. There are others, Blockbusters, Netflix ect.

>>19401481
I didn't say success is hopeless, you nimrod. Do you actually read any of the replies you get before you type? I said Russo-type storytelling isn't the solution because the root cause of the problem is the abandonment of kayfabe in the age of social media.

Kayfabe is the only mechanism through which immersive storytelling can happen- no amount of Russo circus acts will draw dimes when all of the wrestlers are bitching about how fake it all is on their social media and podcasts. That's my ultimate point. Forget NGOs, forget all this political shit. Death of kayfabe is the real reason wrestling is in such a dire state. This could be fixed, if any of the federations actually cared about maintaining the illusion they promised.

>>19401525

Your using bullshit technological determinism to argue that what demonstratively worked (and continues to work in other media formats) cant be replicated because social media, lower attention spans and ticktock. Its hocus pocus horeshit

Suspense and shock factor are absolutely key to immersive storytelling, which is precisely why Russo was sucessful. He follows a tried and tested formula, you can see it in any successful media (The Sopronos, Breaking Bad ect). What you probably have an issue with is his timing, maybe a little quick for your taste, but as you already admitted - the modern audience have a shorter attention span (he explains trying to get this across to Corvette in one good interview)

Russos timing, frame and pacing was perfect in those attitude shows. As for this ''fake'' thing, i dont know what your talking about. Everyone since the early 1900s has known pro wrestling was a performance.

>>19401563
Do you understand what kayfabe is? People knew pro wrestling was fake, but kayfabe is an agreement between the federation and the audience to believe the events of the program anyway- that's the magic. Kayfabe is the glue that holds the immersive hyperreality together, you can't get any story over without this bond.

And like I said many times, the way federations today treat kayfabe is antithetical to immersion. Pro wrestling today is like paying to go see a stage magician, but after every trick he performs, he goes on a whole tangent about how the trick was performed, and how magician Z down at the other bingo hall does it wrong, how now he's got backstage beef with magician G, etc. All of this character breaking bullshit kills the illusion pro wrestling is trying to set up, and no amount of shockjock antics is gonna cover that up.

If pro wrestling is not real, you need a way to get people invested anyway. The way you do that is through storytelling, which can only exist if you have the mutual agreement of kayfabe. You remove kayfabe, and the entire house of cards comes down.

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>>19400885
>>an Islamic fundamentalist (who becomes the hero and everyone cheers for)
never gonna happen, abdul

>>19400885
people got bored of rtc in months 20 years ago. no-one is gonna give a shit about anti-sjw content in 2025.

>>19401602

nobody got bored of high quality attitude era format, it was phased out and then they lost interest

yes, people find breaking taboos funny, and sjw institutions literally control the world, and impose all manner of controls on speech and information

making fun of them (not playing it safe but really going for them) would be very funny

because its borderline illegal and they (constituting the effective ''inner party'' of modern society) react hilariously

im actually left wing in many respects, but this pearl clutching sjw abomination needs to be made fun of

>>19401524
>Your ''record profits'' are a tiny fraction of what would have been generated had they not capitulated and pandered to pc. In terms of what they lost re market share its actually one of the greatest failures of all time, despite higher overall profits on paper.
Are you working or are you a shoot retard?

>>19401617
>nobody got bored of high quality attitude era format, it was phased out and then they lost interest
It was phased out because it wasn't drawing anymore.