>>19484297
He drew 4mil last night with midcarder cena

>supposed to be seen as this scary heel who retires legends
>tapped to Jey

>>19484297
You forgot
>worked mark bitches like you into a seething shoot

I don't get why HHH has such a fucking erection for this guy. He's flabby, not muscular or gigafat. He has no charisma. He can't cut a promo. His matches, while technically sound, are the same shit over and over again.

>>19484482
Because as Walter he was an indie workrate guy and for whatever reason Triple H thinks workrate draws

>>19484482
Gunther is dimeless.

Any match he’s in, the draw is always his opponent.

Fuck, even the silly McAfee match was being watched because of McAfee.

That pattern will continue. Whoever they put up against Gunther next, the draw will be that guy, not Gunther.

Think I’m wrong? Put Gunther in a main event match with a complete nobody (like some brand new NXT kid) and tell me how many people tune in.

Gunther isn’t a draw. He won’t ever be. His style is boring and in the age of Unreal, fans know he’s being forced on us, which creates cringe.

>>19484297
KIRDBLT

>>19484519
>Gunther is dimeless.
>Any match he’s in, the draw is always his opponent
Same as every heel ever. Mark

>>19484547
No, usually the opposite the heel is the draw and you want to see him get beat up by anyone, doesnt matter who

>>19484297
Give him a nazi gimmick working for the authority (HHH) and put him in a feud against LA Knight

Then just watch the dimes flow.

>>19484297
gunther enables the other guys to draw

>>19484519
So he's HHH?

>>19484569
HHH was not the box office attraction in 2000, The Rock was. People came to see The Rock beat HHH

>>19484547
I don’t generally go take piss breaks during matches featuring heels who draw.

Gunther is a regular weekly piss break. All you miss is a bunch of slappy chopping and boring ass submission moves.

His entrance is kino, tho. I’ll give em that.

Besides, all of this is in the context of them already fucking up his character by booking him to tap out to Yeetman. His aura is ruined and Paul is just trying to sweep that fuckup under the rug and act like the Gunther character is still a destroyer. Fans won’t forget tho. Which is why he will continue to receive YOU TAPPED OUT chants on Monday and for the rest of his career.

Brock Lesnar is a “real” monster character. Fans buy it. He is booed, not mocked.

Gunther is a fake monster character. One the company is trying to create, but the fans aren’t buying. They know it’s a fraud. He will be mocked.

If you think that’s good heat, I don’t know what to tell you.

>>19484677
Well yeah HHH sucks shit like gunther. why do you think H loves this dude so much

>>19484297
>Der Ring-Führer, Gunther
um how is this problematic nickname allowed

>>19484297
So I learn from /pw/ that this guy retired Cena with a sleeper hold. Whatever.

What annoys me is how shitty this dude looks. He should put on some muscle. He doesn't have to roid out, but he looks like some geek who decided to do cardio to lose weight and barely lifted heavy in the process.
At least he is not a midget, but he still looks bad.
Let me guess, he can't cut a promo either?

>>19484772
The only promo he needs now is your cenation copeland

This entire board is full of seething marks holy shit kek

>>19484780
I am not a Cena fan. In fact, I am not watching wrestling - as much is written in my previous post.
But the German guy really does not look good enough.
It's like casting an unsuitable actor for a kino role - it diminishes the show.

he is a heel his job is help the face draw the dimes

>>19484853
How does he do that when he looks like shit, can't cut a promo and has no charisma? By being a generic foreign heel who wrestles a typic indie grappling style?

>>19484898
Got you squealing after last night so he's doing something right

>>19484908
He got me to have no desire to watch anything WWE outside of the Rumble and Mania. I don't think that was their intent.

>>19484908
but he didn't do shit lol, hhh and cena got people squealing

PICO!!!

I mean PCO I knew it was easy to remember

>>19484922
See you Monday
>>19484923
You're in this thread pitching a fit about him doing his job.

>>19484935
I haven't watched Raw since after the last Wrestlemania, so no you won't.

>>19484950
Sure, pal. We all believe you

>>19484935
Again Im pitching a fit that hhh did his job badly. nobody cares about gunther probably find him funny if anything

>>19484482
> Once dimeless wrestler pushed by executives
>Now as executive hes the one pushing the dimeless wrestlers
Pottery

>>19484961
You got worked, champ. Everyone did their job.

>>19484970
How am I worked when I find gunther funny with his little comedy lines. If I were worked I would hate this guy

>>19484970
>cena's heel turn was actually a success because people got mad about it

>>19484960
Thanks, Paul.

>>19484976
Coping probably?
>>19484983
Yes?

>>19484976
There’s a contingent of retards on this board who love to use the words “mark” and “worked” because they think it makes them seem tough and plugged into the lingo. It’s cute.

>>19484481
imagine being proud of being a wrestling dweeb and not a chad casual fan

>>19485007
Could you possibly be one of the worked marks?

Goldberg should have gone over

>>19485007
My brother... just look at the state of this board. Look at the catalog.

A hundred plus threads have been screamed into existence since last night, an onslaught of worked marks crying about a babyface losing to a heel. Dozens and dozens of paragraphs about how this is the death of wrestling, how HHH has ruined their childhood, how Gunther must never be allowed to benefit from this grave betrayal of the fans trust.

Any attempt to talk these fans off the proverbial ledge has been met with screeching hatred and threats of watching AEW.

If you think these aren't worked marks... then what is this?

>>19485058
Many are saying this

>>19485058
>YOU DON'T HATE THE SHIT BOOKING YOU ARE WORKEDDDDDDD STOP SAYING YOU HATE TRIPLE H YOU ARE WORKED GUNTHER WORKED YOU
who the fuck is gunther kek

>>19485104
>who the fuck is gunther kek
The nigga making you have a meltdown right now

>>19484482
WALTER blackening PCO's chest with chops at 2 am in New Orleans was just that good

>>19485129
oh gunther is triple h?

>>19485104
Sheesh... I haven't been this worked since Sgt. Slaughter and the Macho King attacked The Ultimate Warrior and stole the title from him! A terrible day for the free world!

>>19485133
You're coping again.

>>19485058
I think a “worked mark” is an interesting way to refer to “potential new fans you just intentionally and joyfully alienated.”

Imagine I own a business and spend a million dollars promoting it in new markets, hoping to draw new strangers into my store, something I would only do if I’m looking to grow my business.

Then, imagine it works! I get a whole bunch of new people in the doors on my big weekend!

Then, imagine I piss directly in their face. Like, I just unzip, unholster my hog, and blast a stream of hot piss directly on their nose. And imagine I justify it by saying, “Hey this the business! This is tradition! Fuck your expectations! Hahah!”

And then, when they get upset and start “seething” and then obviously leave, never to return, imagine I’m delusional enough to call them “worked marks,” as though they’re the ones with the problem.


The heart of this fumble is that the WWE invited millions of new potential customers into their store this holiday season to check out their product under the guise that it was a hero’s feel good farewell. And then when those unsuspecting people said, “Okay, sure I’ll come check you out,” HHH blasted piss in their face and his defenders called them worked marks as they left, disillusioned and confused about what kind of business would invite them in simply to piss on them while mocking them for not understanding it.

It’s an interesting way to do business.

I guess we’ll see if it worked. Netflix show is tomorrow night.

>>19485216
>so worked this nigga had to type up a novella

>>19485216
Imagine your thought process applied to Sammartino or Backlund.

All these youngsters will cry if we have the Iron Sheik take the belt off of Backlund!!!!

Sometimes heels win.

I know you're upset. You've told yourself you're too smart to get worked, so now that you've been worked despite your best efforts all you can do is grasp at straws. I'm not worked, it's bad booking! That's cool, man. Process this in your own way, and then tune into Monday Night RAW brother!

>>19485281
>Imagine your thought process applied to Sammartino or Backlund.
who? who gives a fuck about that boomer slop lmao

>>19485294
You're coping again, you worked ass mark

>>19485281
>Sammartino or Backlund.

Fucking who?

— Sincerely, all the new fans WWE is allegedly trying to attract for Netflix and ESPN+


I understand you love the terms “worked” and “mark,” but I’d honestly describe myself as more just purely stunned by the stupidity and short-sightedness of the booking from the perspective of someone writing creative for a multi-billion dollar business.

What HHH did last night is a fascinating marketing experiment, one that makes little sense to me, and I’m genuinely curious to see how it shakes out.

Again, from a wrestling perspective, the booking is fine. Old guy loses his last match to elevate a heel who will be on the show next week. Fine. Whatever.

It’s the business perspective I find interesting.

>>19485301
Whatever you say man. Let's see in a month if anyone gives a fuck about gunther

>>19484297
This guy is the best wrestler in a very long time, if more were like him wrestling wouldn't be such a joke.

>>19485319
Let's say some young kid tuned in last night to watch a match because his older brother or Dad was talking about some awesome hero named Cena.

You don't know much about wrestling but these older guys keep hyping you up about this larger-than-life hero from their childhood. You've never seen your Dad talk about anything with such enthusiasm.

>Scenario 1
The guy wins and then retires. You think "that was neat but I guess it's over." You never watch again.

>Scenario 2
Cena loses, your older brother and your dad are furious! On the verge of tears! WTF... this Gunther guy is an asshole! I want to see him get his comeuppance!

>>19485370
lmao

Well, I’ll give you this: that’s absolutely how HHH hopes this works.

>>19485370
>this Gunther guy is an asshole! I want to see him get his comeuppance!
or you turn off the show and open kai cenats streams
this isnt the 1920s when people thought this shit was real

>>19485338
Yeah. See you Monday. You were gonna be watching no matter, mark. Quit throwing a fucking tantrum over fake fighting.

>>19485892
I didn't say I was gonna watch tomorrow I said let's see in a month if anyone gives a fuck. Trust me Im aware smarks will be doing their victory lap when gunther gets booed for the first few weeks

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sheamus and drew are literally just gunther but with charisma

I don't know who is wrong or right but I can't possibly read the shit and you are foolish to post it thinking anyone can

>>19485901
You don't have to say it. You're gonna be watching regardless because your mark ass can't turn away.

>>19485927
Nobody is watching this shit, the netflix debut had 600k or some shit. it's probably below aew level at this point

>>19485939
This is where you're gonna go now?

>>19485947
You took it there mate, keep up

>>19485971
Believe you're grasping at straws and trying to change the subject because you're a mark who has been crying since last night.

>>19485980
If you say so. I'm sure Gunther will lead the next boom period. Ignore that metrics were already sliding downward before this retarded shit

>>19485800
>>19485818
So your argument is that a whole bunch of children tuned in last night to watch the last match of a guy they don't know against another guy they don't know. These potential fans know nothing about wrestling except that it's fake... but they were prepared to become lifelong fans ONLY as long as the good guy won.

That sounds less likely than you guys being butthurt marks but okay.

>>19485988
And I'm sure you'll be crying about it or something equally stupid, you fucking mark

>>19485216
smartest post I've read all day

>>19485996
What the fuck are you on about. People watched because it was Cena's last match. They saw some retarded ending where he tapped out like a bitch and now have no reason to care

>>19486013
On planet worked mark maybe

>>19484297
I genuinely do not understand why this guy gets pushed.
Wwe has Penta but is pushing this fat slob that lost some weight but now has flabby skin.

Didnt this company have dragon lee at one point? Did nothing with him. Yet pushed that YouTube retard with a pokemon card

>>19486028
Oh yeah. Push the flippy shitter who can't stay healthy more than a week. What a genius you are.

>>19486022
shut up faggot, I wasn't talking to you. I have no desire to engage with corporate bots who defend companies that rip people off.

>>19486051
What a fucking mark kek

>>19486019
The post I was originally responding to was making the argument that this match was a potential way to win new fans, see >>19485216

To which I responded with >>19485370 making the argument that it still could lead to new fans because they might want to see the heel get their comeuppance.

The response to this post was the cope >>19485818 that now stated there were no new fans to be gained because kids weren't watching anyway... and your comment making the same argument that only lapsed fans were watching anyway.

We've gone full circle. First there were potential new fans tuning in last night and HHH failed to capitalize on, to now you saying there were no new fans in the first place.

Which leaves us with... a bunch of butthurt marks, crying about their childhood hero losing. It's okay, brother. You'll find a new hero someday.

>>19486076
Damn

>>19486076
>The response to this post was the cope that now stated there were no new fans to be gained because kids weren't watching anyway
That's not what I said, I said they will watch that ending then never watch again and instead watch kai cenat and I showspeed. No kid is voluntarily watching gunther out of anger they will just turn that shit off

>>19486111
Would Cena winning have convinced these children to stop watching streamers?

>>19486061
only a mark would defend WWE at this point.

>>19486111
Seems like it's what you said. Going from argument to argument and losing each one because you're fucking retarded and need your childhood hero to win

>>19486111
>CENA WINS!
Young kid: wow, I want to see more of this Cena guy!
Dad: That was his last match, kiddo.
Young kid: Oh, well. Fuck wrestling then.
>WWE IS SAVED!!!

>>19486076
stupidest post I've seen all day.

>>19486123
Only a mark would still be this upset after a wrestling match

>>19486131
We must have a visitor from planet worked mark

>>19486117
>>19486125
>>19486127
instant board wide meltdown when you say cena kids aren't going to watch gunther out of respect for his epic heel work. Lmao

>>19486145
Don't think anyone has said that at all. Again, you going from argument to argument because you're a mark who got his feelings hurt last night.

>>19485901
What level of smark meta-commentary are we at right now? 3 layers deep? 4 layers deep?
>I'm not worked but other people will be
>no, they won't actually be worked, but they'll pretend to be worked
>they'll be pretend worked enough to not watch
>they weren't watching anyway btw but they'll be not-watching even more now

This has to be exhausting playing make-believe the way you do, as if you're the only one capable of understanding it's a TV show and you either watch it because you are entertained by it, or stop watching because you are not.

>>19486127
>GUNTHER WINS!
Young kid: wow, that sucked.
Dad: Yup.
Young kid: I never want to watch this again.
Dad: Me neither.
>WWE IS SAVED!!!

>>19486145
Sorry buddy, there were no Cena kids watching. Only adult marks that are crying about their childhood hero losing his last match.

>It's bad booking because Cena doesn't give up!!!!

>>19486173
So what are you so butthurt about exactly?

>>19484519
>Any match he’s in, the draw is always his opponent
No wonder Triple Nose loves him

>>19486173
You >>19485216 were the person making the argument that last night was a chance for WWE to reach new fans. Now you agree with me that there was no chance regardless of outcome because little kids weren't watching anyway.

The only people watching were marks, smarks, and anti-smarks. The same audience as always. Marks are crying because Cena let them down. Smarks are happy because Gunther is a good talent and it made booking logic to have Cena tap out. Anti-smarks are crying because they wanted YEET to interfere in the match.

>>19486165
>Don't think anyone has said that at all. Again, you going from argument to argument because you're a mark who got his feelings hurt last night.
Havent change my argument once, you just misread like a retard probably because you are ESL kek
>>19486167
>they'll pretend to be worked
When the fuck did anyone say that

>>19486211
You've changed your argument over and over and had to bring in ratings like it was some slam dunk because Cena lost. You're mad as fuck.

>>19486211
>I didn't say I was gonna watch tomorrow I said let's see in a month if anyone gives a fuck. Trust me Im aware smarks will be doing their victory lap when gunther gets booed for the first few weeks
Who is 'anyone' and why do you lack the backbone to make an actual argument instead of hiding behind hyperbole and superlatives? Have some balls, go out on a limb and stop being a pussy.

>>19486211
It was a good match and the outcome was correct.

My evidence:
>Booking was solid, hence the anticipation leading to a $4m gate.

>Result was correct, because the goal is to get fans talking about it... hence threads like this and all over the internet still fiercely debating the outcome 24 hours later.

>Booking was forward-thinking because now you have a chance to build a heel. Cena winning would be pointless because he won't be here Monday night, Gunther will.

What's your argument against these points? I just want to ensure you aren't misrepresented going forward.

>>19486249
Why are you an adult who gets this pissy over a wrestling match?

>>19484481
way too many smelly smark insiderz on this board holy shit. take a fucking shower

I'm just gonna ignore the other blatant TKO shills
>>19486235
>>Booking was solid, hence the anticipation leading to a $4m gate.
That had nothing to do with booking and was entirely built on Cena's last match, it was already sold out before any match was announced
>Result was correct, because the goal is to get fans talking about it... hence threads like this and all over the internet still fiercely debating the outcome 24 hours later.
They are purely talking about how retarded it was, that's not a good thing. Look at all the franchises that have died because of shit writing in the last decade.
>>Booking was forward-thinking because now you have a chance to build a heel. Cena winning would be pointless because he won't be here Monday night, Gunther will.
Nobody gives a shit about Gunther and never will. Cena himself admitted he will be forgotten in 2-3 weeks. Everyone already moved on to Jericho's return kek

>>19484297
I haven't watched wrestling for years until last night and he was really enjoyable, I don't get the hate.

>>19486306
Neither does anyone else except the faggot worked marks who are throwing tantrums nonstop

>>19486283
>purely talking about how retarded it was
That's just not true. Opinions are widely divided, hence the debates. This thread alone has people defending and attacking the match.

>nobody gives a shit about Gunther.
Again, you're confusing your own blind rage for the truth. Some like him, some hate him. Now, thanks to last night's match, many will never forget about Gunther. Even if they hate him forever, they'll still remember him.

I'm curious to see what they do next. If you want to go watch Jungle Boy bite some guy's dick, so be it.

>>19486039
An yet you think pushing gunfat AKA flabby tits is good for business?
He has bizarre body shape proportions like the fucking newborn from Alien Ressurection.
He has zero mic skills and zero wrestling skills. Yet of all people the wwe are pushing this guy.

It's like going back in time and wcw pushing sub zero as a main eventer. Only sub zero had a cool name, did actually keep himself in shape, could wrestle and had mic skills

>>19486262
Im not the one who sounds angry as fuck. Saying kids would rather watch kai cenat than gunther shouldnt trigger you this hard

>>19485011

Casuals dont seeth or think about booking

>>19484701

Put the people that bitched when Brock was pushed ending Taker's streak and the people now bitching about Cena's last match on a venn diagram and it would be a perfect circle. Brock was made

>>19486283
>anyone who isn't having a hissy fit about my childhood hero losing is a shill
You're gayer than i ever thought possible

>>19486283
>it was already sold out before any match was announced
They added 2 thousand seats (nearly 10% more capacity), reducing the set to nearly nothing, from the time Cody announced he would face the winner of Oba/Starks, which happened 8 days before SNME. You can't even do basic research, you've memorized your talking points and you're sticking to them, while calling other people shills.

>>19485216

>potential new fans

Mad cope; they aren't on this board bud

File: 1761208143855787.gif (2.51 MB, 469x480)

2.51 MB GIF

>>19486331
This gotta be a TKO shill. Do you actually think people bought tickets to Cena's retirement because they heard ricky starks might be there? LMAO

>>19486323
Yes. Because Penta is the guy we need to hitch our wagon to so he can not show up for 8 months straight and can't speak a lick of English. Do you think before you speak?
>>19486324
Didn't say otherwise, retard. Again, you're switching arguments because you're a butthurt mark who didn't get his way last night

>>19486321
>I'm curious to see what they do next.
let me spoil it for you, gunther does nothing and then randomly wins the whc at some point. so the same exact shit he was already doing

>>19486323
Gunther has zero mic skills... but this injured jumping bean that can't speak English... now that's a promo!

Gunther is a two-time heavyweight champion, and he'll be champion again before his career it over. Penta has already hit his ceiling... maybe a midcard belt or two is on the horizon if he can stay healthy.

>>19486028

People will not buy Penta as a monster heel. People barely buy Dragon Lee as a midcarder.

>>19486173
Clearly Dad is a butthurt mark

>>19486393
the hereniggadamn title means fuck all

>>19486375
You see, friend... that's SOMETHING.
Cena winning would lead to... NOTHING.

Are you starting to see the logic of having the full-time wrestler win instead of the retiring guy? Gunther COULD be booked well or he COULD be squandered... but Cena has left the building. There is no future booking scenarios to be had from a Cena victory.

>>19484482
>He has no charisma. He can't cut a promo. His matches, while technically sound, are the same shit over and over again.
Gee, that sure sounds like Gaitch, huh? There is your answer,

>>19486444
Sounds like what the Cena-haters used to say about him too. Goofy promos, 5 movez, awkward in the ring, etc.

>>19486415
Unless Gunther suddenly wins the rumble and beats Cody no I don't see the logic. If he isnt moving up the card then it's meaningless

>>19486460
You don't see the logic because you're a mark. Couldn't have been laid out any clearer.

>>19486460
Sounds like a good idea to me. The Ring General has retired two legends, why not have him win the Rumble and end Cody's story?

Then you set up a fresh babyface to eventually capture the title.

>>19484297
based metaheel
Smarks wanna hate him and his push so bad but they can't because they spent years jerking him off

>>19486466
Says the guy trying to hype up Vladimir Kozlov 2: Electric Boogaloo winning the HereNiggaDamn championship for the 3rd time

>>19484297
>jewberg
>legend

>>19484297
I love gooner but he'll forever be the guy that TAPPED OUT to Jey, how can Triple H do that to him and then make him retire goldberg and cena is beyond me

>>19484482
>His football skills, while technically sound, are the same shit over and over again.
Well that settles it, the NFL is dead.

>>19486481
Smarks hate Cena and praise Gunther. Not sure why you'd miss this point so widely.

>>19486474
Maybe if you are a Gunther fan that sounds good... Personally I think the guy absolutely fucking sucks

>>19486487
Not even hyping him up but there's no point in Cena winning. At least now there's potential for something. You can't see it because you're upset. You will in time. Calm the fuck down.

>>19484297
He's going to be the one to retire all of them now, you know that right? Guys like Jericho, and AJ and all the old timer agents etc will see how much "heat he is getting" by being the Legend Killer. I bet Jericho volunteers to have Gunther retire him too.

>>19486500
Oh yes, because wins and losses determine a wrestlers credibility forever.

Hey... remember when AJ Styles lost to James Ellsworth in 3 matches back-to-back-to-back? AJ Styles was never heard from ever again.

>>19486412
>People will not buy Penta as a monster heel. People barely buy Dragon Lee as a midcarder.

You DO get that's on the wwe right? Not the wrestlers themselves.
Cena was the most bland wrestler to ever come to the wwe. He has 11 moves tops and refuses to do anything risky.
Hes done the same garbage character all these years and not once had a 5 star match.

And that's the point. It's the wwe. If they WANT to push trash then they WILL push trash and if they force it enough then eventually people will buy into it. Kids or zoomers of today just get tricked into thinking a character is supposed to be good because the wwe keep forcing them because the wwe wants that individual to be successful.

You gave Roman being pushed all these years and hes shit. You have Knight who has actual talent pushed to midcarder status....but heres Gunther....a main event guy. He is just a clone of the alien ressurection monster.

FFS he beat cena with a bog standard sleeper. Guys like this being pushed just feels like a joke.

Is that fat dude who does cartwheels going to be champion next

>>19486528
Im not watching this shit so what exactly am I gonna see?

>>19486521
Personally, I absolutely despise YEET man and change the channel anytime he's on... but all things must pass. Eventually all the wrestlers you hate will retire and all the wrestlers you like as well. Crying about a heel beating a babyface is the exact reaction HHH wants.

Anger doesn't kill a fed. Apathy does.

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>just feed him one more legend guys have patience let papa H cook
2025 smarks are a fucking joke, actual corporate drones

>>19486575
If you're not watching then what the fuck are you seething for? See you Monday though.

>>19486601
you coming to mow my lawn?

>>19486575
You'll see the same thing all of the Cena haters saw when they gave up WWE forever. The same thing the Roman haters saw when they tuned out. The same thing any fan sees when they stop being a fan.

NOTHING.

Not sure why you're so upset about leaving though. I moved on to other feds when Bret Hart was screwed, came back when something caught my attention. Left when JBL and HHH had their reigns of terror. Came back when Punk dropped his pipe bomb.

If you're going to leave, just leave. Nobody cares.

>>19486614
Nah. To fuck your wife. You can tell me all about Raw when I'm done.

>>19486617
why are you reddit spacing