The angle of some people being like>it's poetic the guy who never gives up finally gives upIt's really dumb. It comes off like the person saying it thinks they're really smart and wants to project how their big brain is better than your small brain.In no way did WWE build towards the idea that they are presenting. The retirement run's primary focus was on Cena turning heel, being the greatest of all time and capturing a record 17th championship. The whole night of his last match was celebrating his career and how he carried the company for a long time and changed the industry.There was never a story set up where Cena's resolve was questioned. Gunther was never built as the guy who would be the one to break Cena's resolve. The other main argument is centered around Cena needing to lose in order to give back to the business, which is also a stupid argument because nobody is arguing that he shouldn't have lost his last match. They're upset about who he lost to and how.At minimum, if he's going against Gunther with no build or story and he has to lose, he should be pinned or pass out in a submission. To have him tap out with a smile on his face and for everyone to break kayfabe to try to play defence on the post-show does nothing for Gunther. They are not selling the idea that Gunther was just too strong for Cena, they're busy telling us that Cena had to lose for the good of the business. Which again is the bad faith argument which completely misses the point of what people didn't like.You also had pic rel just moments before he taps out, which is also in stark contrast to the theme of the finish.
Does anyone read these chatbot posts? I don't
>>19486006>There was never a story set up where Cena's resolve was questionedAre you even watching the show? There was an entire months-long storyline about Cena questioning his abusive relationship towards the fans and how this character that he constructed took over his entire life. The entire thing comes out as the man embracing his shadow, trying to come to terms with being self-interested after devoting himself to others and their needs for the longest time.
>>19486006>you're supposed to go out on your back There isn't any "supposed to" which doesn't presuppose that whatever decision you make will yield higher or at least equal financial returns. Going out on the back works if the guy getting it can carry the rub and then pass it on to a different face. Gunther is a midcarder, no matter how much he's pushed, whowever he squashes, he will not draw. He cannot get a rub. This means all you've done is lower Cena down to a jobber, with no great replacement who can fight Gunther (Cody? Fucking kill me). People will just be disinterested and not watch the show. I'll be vindicated on this when the ratings drop and don't go up, and WWE fails to hold a mainstream match again. They may increase their profits through other ilicit means, but their popularity will not recover.>Cena smiled as a sign of acceptanceThis acceptance thing only works if he got choked out or smiled before getting hit with Gunther's finisher, him quitting is the annihilation of his own principles. Smiling as you do it is a heel move. And he's full on enjoying himself with zero sense of melancholy after the crowd starts booing.
>>19486056> Are you even watching the show?Most of these stupid threads are because they don’t. Now you understand why Vince recapped the fuck out of everything, so tards like OP could follow along.
>>19486006>To have him tap out with a smile on his facewill be seen by millions>and for everyone to break kayfabe to try to play defence on the post-showwatched by a few thousand unwashed smarksThank you for destroying your own argument
>>19486006this. these fucking wwe defenders are acting like kayfabe is still a thing. IT'S NOT. bad booking brings heat on the booker, not the heel. people might be mad at gunther for like a week, but after that HHH will get all the blame because he made the decision and everyone knows it. Having the heel win is not bad, but humiliating someone in their last match is pretty bad, especially if it's someone that the fans paid thousands of dollars to see.
>>19486006Not reading all that but it seems like you're a fucking mark who got worked
>>19486075>I'll be vindicated on this when the ratings drop and don't go up, and WWE fails to hold a mainstream match again. They may increase their profits through other ilicit means, but their popularity will not recover.I want to see you make the argument of why AEW or any other wrestling organization will benefit from this match, and from the argument you're making. You can't do it. And since you can't do it, but you recognize WWE will continue to increase it's profits, then you are also admitting that you are rooting for non-WWE wrestling to fail.This is embarrassing.
>>19486093My argument is that they didn't build towards Cena giving up or to Gunther being the one to break Cena's spirit.
>>19486120>I want to see you make the argument of why AEW or any other wrestling organization will benefit from this match, and from the argument you're making. You can't do it. And since you can't do it, but you recognize WWE will continue to increase it's profits, then you are also admitting that you are rooting for non-WWE wrestling to fail.Bruh none of these words are sensible. I don't care what argument you want me to make, this is the truth. I don't care about AEW or whatever else. People will just stop watching all types of wrestling.
>>19486091The whole long term storyline is too hard for the average wrestling fan to understand.Bring back Vince and the Natalia farting jokes.
>>19486196Make it shortThey never paid me they lost
>>19486006>It's really dumb. It comes off like the person saying it thinks they're really smart and wants to project how their big brain is better than your small brain.Cena told everyone nothing matters, but they can't help themselves kek
>>19486006>getting so worked you write a blogpost about itget a load of this fucking mark
>>19486149Wouldn't have made much sense for Gunther to spend the last 3-6+ months insisting he'll be Cena's final opponent and will tap him out to end his career.>>19486170>You can't do it. And since you can't do it, but you recognize WWE will continue to increase it's profits, then you are also admitting that you are rooting for non-WWE wrestling to fail.Unironically thank you for your concession. I'm getting far too good at this.
>>19486216Sorry, next thread will be a picture of big boobs and the text will be 'booba'
>>19486149Gunther did not *break* Cena's spirit. Gunther also did not matter in that match at all. He was just a surface to be reflected on Cena. That was a Cena x Cena fight through and through. The fact that the enemy of Cena was a tournament shows that the adversary of Cena in the end did not matter. There was no need for promo battles or extensive story about the rivalry. The match was about Cena and Cena alone.After watching what they did with the match, I understood why it had to be Gunther and not LA Knight. LA Knight has too much of a character for himself, and a Knight victory would steal the spotlight. A Gunther victory over a washed talent is just what already happened to Goldberg.Gunther is just this perfect guy where your character can just bounce off him. He is the impersonation of a challenge, a wall that has to be gone through. Cena did not make it, then he smiled to the camera, thought of all victories, admitted he gave all of himself, then found that he deserved to move on. He then delivered the most beautiful tap out ever. The storytelling of the match was us seeing Cena truly giving all of himself, doing some dangerous moves off the buckle, delivering over the top finishers, it was a great Cena match.This is the deserving end to the Cena storyline. The only thing I wish happened was that he had faced the Wyatts at one point.
>>19486217>Unironically thank you for your concession. I'm getting far too good at this.I don't even understand what you're saying. I don't get the how any of your sentences come together to mean something. I don't see it. Might as well be Hindi.
>>19486217You created a strawman and then when anon chose not to engage with it you claim victory lmao you're such a fucking dork.
>>19486234You know exactly what I'm saying, you're just to cowardly to address it because you're a fag with a list of talking points and not an actual wrestling fan with backbone.- You cannot explain how Cena tapping to Gunther will ultimately benefit other wrestling organizations- You admit that WWE will continue to make an increasing amount of profits despite Cena tapping to Gunther- You were humiliated to the point of needing to claim, and I quote: "I don't care about AEW or whatever else. People will just stop watching all types of wrestling"You will not even admit to being a fan of any wrestling other than WWE because that would force you to make the argument that Gunther tapping out Cena was best for business. You have been cowed. Moo for me, bitch.
I swear all you idiots wanna do anything to just sound smart even if it means being contrarian.
>>19486244I posited a conundrum that could easily be escaped by explaining how it would benefit wrestling companies not named WWE, and the little worm couldn't do it because it can't be done. This is what happens when you make arguments like a liar and a fraud instead of speaking the truth and what you actually believe.Any actual wrestling fan knows Cena tapping to Gunther was the right and correct ending that will yield the most potential results. Whether those potential results come to fruition or not is irrelevant. You don't buy a 10 year treasury bond expecting the government to be overthrown in 5 years, you buy it expecting to cash out in 10 years. Likewise, Gunther taps out Cena last night because it has the greatest chance to build a bigger star (and the next great heel) over the next decade. A pin-fall or passing out was the safe route with much less potential gains.Now I want you to moo for me some more, call this a wall of text, call it seethe, call it anything you want rather than addressing the merits.
>>194862521. But why would I explain that when I never claimed such a thing?2. They MIGHT. But they will no longer be mainstream. That's a big claim, and I'll be proven right on this.3. Yeah I don't give a shit about AEW. I never liked it, it's garbage. I do watch Japanese wrestling but they don't do angles or promos. I don't know if they'll be helped by this or not, but I do know Tanahashi losing to Okada won't nearly be as bad as this.
>>19486273>Likewise, Gunther taps out Cena last night because it has the greatest chance to build a bigger star (and the next great heel) over the next decade. A pin-fall or passing out was the safe route with much less potential gains.Lmao you dummie, this is what I was arguing against initially and you didn't even pick up on it. Gunther will not be a draw ever, and I don't have to account for extreme scenarios to know this, so know when your investment falters, there were anons who knew their shit and predicted it with better CAPMs
>>19486056This is my frustration with how the overarching theme for the retirement run was constructed. At every turn where these core ideas needed to be reinforced, there'd be some unnecessary plot point that would strain them (unceremoniously dropping the heel turn, for example). It's a good story in isolation though.
>>194862861. You don't have to, but your failure to do so (or approach from a similar but different angle) speaks volumes about how disingenuous you are.2. You will not make the argument that WWE was mainstream as of December 12th, 2025. So this point is irrelevant.3. Finally, progress. NJPW won't benefit by WWE declining, you are smart enough to know that. NJPW benefits the most by raising their profile via AEW/CMLL copromotion, but in order to do that AEW/CMLL must stop catering to basement shut-ins and expand their reach.I don't dislike Japanese wrestling, I'd watch a lot more NJPW if it had English commentary other than Veda who makes me want to shove a screwdriver into my eardrums. The fact they continue to mercilessly copyright strike video clips on social media does them no favors. Stardom is a fun watch that I leave Picture-in-Picture sometimes while browsing 4chan.I am a wrestling fan. You misunderstand me if you think I want all wrestling other than WWE to fail or recede. But I do recognize that WWE needs to be the way it is to continue as the flagbearer, and I also recognize that non-WWE companies not just being non-WWE but anti-WWE does them much more harm than good. The Formula became The Formula for a reason.
>>19486304>Gunther will not be a draw everYou say this like your prediction actually means anything. If you are wrong and Gunther becomes a [relative] phenomenon, you won't come on /pw/, eat shit, admit you were dead wrong and take your lashings. So what's the point of even saying it?This is what actual seethe looks like - not limiting your criticism to the present tense, but insisting that future events will/won't happen because you say so.
>>19486384Ive been watching for decades, I know what works and what doesn't. Nobody will ever give a fuck about gunther
>>19486355also the point he made about the John Cena "character" taking over his life is interesting because within the artificially constructed kayfabe reality, tapping out would be a conscious decision to deny the fans of catharsis, and in reality him finally refusing to participate in the furtherance of the John Cena myth (never give up etc etc)
>>19486403And if (when) they do, you lose nothing at all. You'll probably even deny you ever said it. So brave of you.
>>19486515>you lose nothing at allIf Gunther is ever held up as a star I will lose the will to live
>>19486384Set a timer for a 5 years from now, 8am PT. We will both show up here. If this site is dead, we'll meet on X, you or I will tweet out the following: "I apologize for being wrong about Gunther's run, Mr. Anon." and we'll search and reply to the other. Failure to do so will be seen as an implicit concession.
>>194863711. How?2. Well the reaction has already been shown yesterday, not sure what else you expect immediately.
>>19486228>LA Knight has too much of a character for himself, and a Knight victory would steal the spotlight.LA Knight wasn't even in the building and people chanted his name. He was the clear right choice, not anti-draw Goonther..
>changed the industry Explain how exactly ? Those were the weakest forgettable times with a guy who had the same matches over and over again
>>19486371>I don't dislike Japanese wrestling, I'd watch a lot more NJPW if it had English commentary other than Veda who makes me want to shove a screwdriver into my eardrums.All regular NJPW shows have English commentary (Stewart Walker and Chris Charleton). Veda isn't involved with them at all - that's just US shows, which are completely skippable.
Lmao.Anti Smarks are crybabies as usual.Bruce Blitz won.
