Luger and Vicious should've and could've been the stars of the 90's they were always over. but Vicious loved Softball and Luger didn't want the Top guy responsibilities

>>20138434
because they've only watched WWF

>>20138744
This. Vince miscast Luger as a Hogan replacement because Vince is gay and wanted Luger to fuck him.

>>20138808
it's pretty night and day seeing luger as a shitty face vs a based tweener in WCW

that luger and sting tag team storyline where luger was leaning heel and kept cheating to win so they could stay champs was really well done

>>20138434
>shit worker
>shit promo
yeah quite the mystery

>>20138812
pretty much everything Luger does in his second WCW run is dimes til Russo basically turns him back into Narcissist

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I would like to remind everyone that hollywood hogan had a world title reign of nearly a year only for luger to beat him clean on nitro and tap him out to the rack in under three seconds. legit stone cold tier pop
https://youtu.be/QogP7IB8G80?t=737

can you imagine bloodline roman getting beat on TV for the belt and tapping out to someone?

>>20138847
Hogan was so amazing during that period. He did everything possible to get people to hate him and knew exactly when to give a lil back, then put the heat right back on to start it all over again with someone else. They just ran out of dimes people to do it with (mainly because Goldberg killed the entire roster to become Goldberg, so he was the last one left).

>>20138847
I miss the chaos of Nitro crowds back in this time. Always throwing trash in the ring, going apeshit over what was happening.

>>20138847
Schiavone is garbage but he had a momentary out of body experience and became the goat the moment Luger hits the forearm.

Always seemed bland to me compared to everyone else. like Cody on steroids. Recommend any good matches?

>>20139897
Hogan vs Savage Halloween Havoc 96

>>20139897
vs flair at starrcade,
vs hogan on nitro (link above)

He had a fantastic look, but he was just kind of average otherwise. He was also just not a very charismatic guy.

And I don't know what he did to Vince, but Vince absolutely had it out for him in WWF. I've never really seen any main event guy get blueballed like he did.

>>20139890
Same of MC when Mankind won the belt. I guess Big Face Moments can make anyone sound good.

>>20138434
even as a kid i felt there was something off about the guy. like someone who was just incredibly insecure and got onto bodybuilding as a cope

>>20139897
vs shirt at superbrawl saturday

>>20138434
Hold over hot take from the post-Summer of Punk era was everyone was le smark with an opinion but most of them never actually saw old wrestling. He had muscles so they said he was bad and couldn't wrestle and had no personality and wasn't a star etc.

He had a reputation for having a bad attitude and being disrespectful in the 80s. I think it’s mostly accepted now among his peers that he was just an outsider and didn’t understand how he was being perceived. That and most so called smart fans only ever seeing him fail out of WWF he got a reputation that didn’t line up with reality.
I’ll also say if you’re only use to modern wrestling, or only watched wwe in the 90s, you’re pretty much going to find anything from before 2013 is going to be better than the garbage you’ve subjected yourself to.

>>20138434
He was male Jade Cargill.

He only had his look.

>>20140088
Lex has had incredible matches, they’re all against the greatest workers of all time, but that puts him on par with sting.

>>20140076
Still made a lot of friends though, he was described as someone who left a bad impression until you got to know him and understand that's just how he is and doesn't actually mean anything by it. I would strongly argue he didn't fail out of WWE, the title match dogshit booking killed his run to no fault of his own.

>>20138434
because they blame him for the thing with elizabeth, even though they were both doing tons of drugs of their own free will and luger almost died as well.

>>20138954
it wasnt solely Jewbergs fault. a guy like Hall could have become a world champion if he stopped being a drunk drug addict

>>20139897
Sting & Luger vs The Steiners is dimes

The IWC narrative around Luther is another example of IWC writer Scott Keith controlling the historical narrative among fans via the fact that he was the only ones doing extensive reviews of all of the old PPVs in the late 90s/early 00s and writing extensive for their day historical retrospectives about key points in late 80s/early to mid 90s wrestling lore. And yet also, was one of the few times Scott actively went against the Dave Meltzer approved narrative. As Meltzer always hated Luger for being a rival to his beloved Ric Flair.

But in general?

>>Luger was a legit next big thing but got fucked over by Ric Flair; one of the few times anyone, let along Scott Keith, called Flair out for being a selfish bitch burying people to protect his spot as top guy. In particular, Keith pushed the narrative that Luger was a casualty of the running feud between Flair and Dusty Rhodes, as Dusty wanted Luger to be the face of Crockett but Flair refused to pass the torch, resulting in a series of intelligence insulting "Dusty Finishes" matches where bullshit happened to keep Luger from getting the belt and the big win, all the while Flair himself was pushing to Crockett that Sting not Luger should be the one that got to be the guy to beat him/be the face of the company not Luger.

>>This pretty much soured Luger on wrestling, leading to a half-hearted heel turn that had to be aborted when Sting got injured and Luger gang pressed for another round of constantly losing to Flair until Sting could come back and beat Flair for the belt.

>>20140591

>>Flair then pulled his bullshit at Great American Bash '91 where he basically quit the company rather than put Lex over, forcing another heel turn and Luger getting the belt in a bullshit way that completely castrated his title run. Luger by this point stopped giving a fuck, exploited the fact that his contract said he had X-number of appearances to vanish from TV until WCW had him put over Sting for the belt then fucked off.

>>His time in WWE was basically 1988 all over again but worse. Luger got hastily turned babyface to replace Hogan getting run out of the company, but suffered a series of Dusty Finish type farces where he never was allowed to just fucking beat Yokozuna for the belt, permanently solidifying him as a choker who always lost the big match by fans. Combined with the fact that fans held a considerable grudge over how Brett Hart got fucked out of the world title by Hogan, led to a situation where Vince said "fuck it" and screwed Luger out of the belt at WM 10. Luger lingered for a bit, did a heel turn that made no sense, before fucking off to WCW.

>>His return to WCW in 1995 was entirely fueled by member berries and continuity porn, which is hillarious given how much Eric Bischoff hated pre-Hogan WCW and anything tied to Ric Flair. For context, imagine if Moxley ever came back to the WWE and you suddenly had him and Seth palling around while constantly referencing Shield storylines from the early 00s, with Moxley being written schizophrenic as fuck where he's a heel except when he's teaming with Seth where he's suddenly a babyface again and you have him explicitly screwing Cody Rhodes out of the world title as a heel but no one holds him accountable because of his relationship with Seth, who suddenly has gone full retard and thinking good old Moxley would never be evil.

>>20140599
>>He then got fucked over AGAIN via having to be Sting's stand in/choker, as he was forced to be the top guy in WCW during the first year and a half of the NWO saga due to Sting being purposely held off TV and PPV until Starcade. To the point even Bischoff had to call an audible and have him beat Hogan for the world title for a brief one week run as champion.

>>That brief run a champion where he wasn't even allowed to have a successful title defense combined with his falling out with Sting (long story short, Sting got caught fucking other women behind his wife's back and she dragged him to a religious based marriage counseling service that saved their marriage and led to both becoming born again Christians. But as part of their becoming born again, Sting snitched on all of his friends in WCW for THEIR adulteries including Lex's and Sting's wife then called EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of Sting's friends to snitch on their affairs to their wives. Which for Lex, destroyed his marriage as his wife immediately filed for divorce and destroyed his friendship with Sting) and WCW having an influx of new top talent, caused Lex to both check out mentally but also to become bitter and resentful and refusing to put over new talent.

>>With his relationship with Sting dead, Lex changed cliques and started hanging out with Scott Steiner, Elizabeth, and Buff Bagwell. He got Elizabeth hooked on drugs that eventually killed her and in the case of Buff Bagwell, became insufferable douchebags who refused to put over anyone. On the plus side though, he managed to get Scott Steiner to stop sacrificing his own future for the sake of his brother Rick and get him to get Bischoff to push him as a top guy at long last, while warning him that Ric Flair would do anything and everything to kill his push.

>>Lex's role in Elizabeth's death basically made him a full on pariah, combined with his health problems effectively retiring him once and for all.

>>20140591
>>20140599
>>20140604
Good posts but nobody will listen. Save them for later to shut down the inevitable threads to come.

>>20140604
I always thought the Sting ratting out his boys so extensively was gossip. I still don't believe it.

>>20140163
Lex was demoted to a midcard tag team with Bulldog by 1995. He basically saved his career by jumping to WCW when he did.

>>20140604
Luger always hung out with Scott Steiner and Bagwell, even during the early 1990s. Elizabeth didn't start hanging out with them until much later.

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>>20138847
who booked this crap?

>>20141633
unironically hogan kek. they asked him who he wanted to put over for the 100th episode of nitro

>>20139945
>And I don't know what he did to Vince
probably rejected Vince's advances.

Once Lapsed Fan pointed out his screaming for sells like "AWWOH!!" for a minor punch in the turnbuckle I can't unhear it and its ruined any Luger matches I've tried to watch. I still like his early 90s WCW run with Harley Race though

>>20140604
Luger is the reason for Big Poppa Pump? Cool. Where's that tidbit of info from?

>>20138434
96-97 Luger was the first time Luger got any good booking since the late 80s. Shit like turning him heel after Ric left WCW and everything with his WWF run isnt the kind of booking that helps a limited muscle guy like him shine.

>>20140591
>>20140599
>>20140604
Good posts.

>>20138829
I'm watching 1993 and I've been enjoying his run as The Narcissist, you can tell he's really into the gimmick as well.
Not clamoring for his turn into "Muh mutt empire, must beat island fatso cosplaying as a nip" run

>>20142630
the majority's perspective like to give Nash, Hogan and Russo get credit for jump-starting Steiner's singles career, when Luger was the actual guy that got the ball rolling for Scott Steiner.

and it made perfect sense that it's Luger who gave Steiner a heads up about Ric Flair's bullshit power plays, considering Flair sabotaged both Luger (multiple times in 88, 90 and 91) and Steiner (once in 91) and fucked both guys over when they (along with Sting) were all tabbed to be WCW's New Generation.

>>20140604
>Stink snitching
they should've killed him

>>20146376
Telling your spouse things isn't snitching. You're supposed to do that. His wife was in the wrong for calling the other wives.

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>>20138434
his NWA theme is so GOATED https://youtube.com/watch?v=ceIqLm99r0E&list=RDceIqLm99r0E&start_radio=1&pp=ygUTbGV4IGx1Z2VyIG53YSB0aGVtZaAHAQ%3D%3D

>>20138744
Vince made him Mr. red white and blue
that wasn't Lex

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>>20140591
>>20140599
>>20140604
>"I HOPE THAT LEX LUGER'S MATCH IS ON. NOT THAT STING PIECE OF SHIIIT!"

it was awesome when Luger slammed the evil foreigner Yokozuna. that was good booking

>>20139945
Vince set lex up pretty fucking well, both in the wwf and wbf but lex was either too lazy or too bored to step up to the plate and be the guy. Vince put alot of money into lex and got fuck all back, warrior was a better face for the company but he too was a basket case.

>>20145213
I like to think that Steiner shooting on Flair so much in that period was his way of thanking Lex for helping him out and giving less of a fuck about being professional in an unprofessional environment.

>>20147391
this but unironically

didn't luger finally walk again for the first time in years recently after he had that stroke in the early 2000s?

>>20148489
he walked to his hall fame induction thanks to ddp. Luger deserved the 2 decades of misery.

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>several interviews with wrestlers saying he was a introvert who never wanted to hang out after work and kept to himself

/ourguy/

What's weird to me is how there's a concerted effort to shit on the Lex Express and that whole period for Luger in WWF but I was a kid during that and it was over as hell.

>>20148543
to be honest I think it's just people regurgitating youtuber opinions. 99% of modern wrestling fans have never watched 1993-1994 wwf.

>>20138434
i always mix up lex luger and mr perfect

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>>20145089
Vince should've kept Luger as the heel narcissist. Bret should've spent '93 and '94 feuding with heel Luger instead of that fat shitter yoko

>>20148743
I don't even watch modern prowrestling

https://youtu.be/0JjjfHzetTM

80s nwa/wcw was better than nitro

>>20148878
Maybe. Idk. The Narcissist is just a re-tread of Shawn Michaels early solo run.

Keep Lex heel, but he needs a new/different gimmick. Don't you agree?

>>20138434
The Luger Sting storyline in it's totality is pretty good but it needed a big match for the world title.
Closest thing we have in modern day is Kevin and Sami

>>20149748
Luger is the Beefcake to Sting's Hulk

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>>20140599
Fuck off with this revisionist horseshit about Luger being some uncrowned GOAT. To his credit, Luger himself has admitted in shoot interviews that he neglected the in-ring and character aspects of his wrestling career and focused too much on his physique. That admission alone is enough to explain why his career amounted to a series of failed pushes to the top. Luger's WWF main event babyface push is what I consider to be the single best example of a promotion trying and failing to create a star because the anointed performer simply wasn't good enough. There are many instances of this happening, but the "Lex Express" serves as the clearest case study. Vince chose Luger to be his next superstar American hero. He didn't screw Luger over. The push worked to some extent. Luger was cheered and accepted as one of the top guys in the company. But not as *THE* guy. It's a testament to Vince's judgment and ability to recognize when to cut his losses when his audience refuses to embrace the guy being pushed the moon over the guy so good that he doesn't need to be pushed. The fans are the reason the planned finishes to the Royal Rumble and WM10 had to be revised.

>>20145089
Yokozuna's reign of terror is one of the worst things to ever happen and ironically, the Lex Express slam was the only memorable payoff from it. The rest of it was forgettable dogshit.

>>20138434
Smarks love "workrate" (a term that means "does lots of cool moves") and Luger didn't wrestle like that so they slandered him as shit and a waste of air time. He was WCW's top babyface in the second half of 1996 and through 1997 and he was really over but it doesn't count to smarks because he didn't do cool moves. WCW had no idea what to do with him in 1998 though and then the Total Package shit in 1999 through the end of WCW was legit ass.

It's like how they spent decades shitting on Sid despite Sid being giga over everywhere he went including smark central ECW. The narrative on him only changed after he died.

>>20141633
Given how it only lasted a week a lot of people (smarks) think Hogan allowed himself to have a meaningless loss in order to cheapen the expected Sting win at Starrcade. They also believe that Hogan then intentionally fucked up the Starrcade match to further make Sting look bad.

>>20140599
>Luger lingered for a bit, did a heel turn that made no sense, before fucking off to WCW.
Luger was a face when he left what are you talking about? He went from the Yokozuna feud to teaming with Tatanka against the Million Dollar Corporation, then feuded with Tatanka when they did the nonsensical Tatanka heel turn, then he teamed with Bulldog against Owen and Yokozuna until he left.

>>20138434
WCW was for retards who like gay dancing. So makes sense that modern wrestling fans like it lmao

never understood why they had him win the wold title and lose it like a week later.

>>20150880
WCW had southern integrity. Yankee WWF queers could never understand.

>>20140415
David Arquette was world champ it wasn't a high bar.

>>20140591
he invalidates his own initial point about Flair being overly selfish when he admits that Flair was willing to lose to Sting

>>20140643
>I always thought the Sting ratting out his boys so extensively was gossip. I still don't believe it.
he didnt just rat out everyone. what happened was in him being honest to his wife about what he did she was able to figure out others where involved. cause sting was hanging with his crew and not just partying alone

>>20145089
That Mutt Empire puts food on your plate you disgustingly brown thirdie.

>>20145089
yeah i always like Narcissist too. especially putting him with Heenan was smart. but im WCW when Russo had his legit name be Total Package it was just a bad ripoff of WWF like a lot of Russo's WCW run

>>20138434
Because Dave Meltzer and Scott Keith buried all the big guys they could while online journalism was a small community. They hated Hulk and loved Benoit and Malenko. All the smarks used their meme metrics to measure a wrestler and you needed moves to matter. This is how ROH and Indie shit ruled the day for them and we still see it today when the le sickos in aew

>>20147448
>Vince set lex up pretty fucking well, both in the wwf and wbf but lex was either too lazy or too bored to step up to the plate and be the guy
Vince wanted Lex to be a cartoon character and Lex is too real for that bullshit

>>20149685
>80s nwa/wcw was better than nitro
This is the unspoken consensus. I've started collecting WCW ppv Vhs and the post nitro stuff is really affordable ($10 or $20), but the pre Nitro stuff gets up to $50 which is a lot for a ratty old used up VHS tape

>>20138847
My favorite part of the celebration after Luger wins the belt is when Scott Steiner stealth hits Alex Wright at the back of his head. Makes me kek every time

>>20142533
>>20150690
this win just made no sense. the build for hogan vs sting had been going on for months then you randomly have someone beat him for the title. it just killed the upcoming match between them. i know it did when i saw it happen live years ago

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>>20138847
hollywood hogan vs tribal chief roman

>>20152228
Revisionist history, it wasn't black and white. Smarks in 2003 praised Brock Lesnar and shit on Jeff Hardy for example

>>20152425
Jeff hardy fucked up a DDT in his ROH appearance, he sucked.

>>20152617
Smarks loved Goldberg until he came to WWE

>>20152677
Yeah. Goldust put a wig on him, made him a bitch.

>>20138434
It's the difference between paying full price to watch a shit movie and then catching it on tv down the line and enjoying it.