This is meant to be a discussion / feedback thread.About the future of the quest. A couple problems have appeared as I ran it and checked the notes. First, over the past 3 months that I've tried my hand at various oneshots, I have mostly forgotten the plot. The notes are still there, and I remember the general direction, but the details of the scenes I planned are lost to time. I can reinvent them as I go (probably), so this is not a big problem for me, but maybe for you, my players, it will be a greater one. Lesson learned, do not take long breaks between threads without extensive note-taking.The main problem is the progression and system of Monster Reincarnation. I've started it as a LitRPG type thing, with all the system notifications about health lost, skill usage, levelling up, formal quests - basically the entire videogame turned quest package. The difficulty about this is that it takes up a lot time to balance it against itself, remember all the stats and mechanics I invented, and integrate all the new mechanics I come up with (I did that over the course of the quest) for essentially no gain. Like I've said a couple times in the past, it is mostly fluff for the "number go up" feel with some but not a lot of effect on the plot and battles. Like "you have a freezing spell, so it affects fire monsters more" or "it takes few hits to kill a 300HP monster with 80 damage skills" type stuff without sure numbers behind it.Over time I lost interest in this type of system. It's a lot of work to write down and update the stats and skills, think of how strong the later monsters will be and which skills it makes sense to give them, invent stats and skills befitting an NPC. Basically a lot of technical note-taking that you'd expect from a videogame database, not a questmaster.I thought about retconning it completely, so the world doesn't work on skills and videogame mechanics anymore, but they're deeply embedded in the worldbuilding and the previous plot, so that would be a very different type of story. Also, most of the previous events wouldn't make sense without this system, so that would break the plot a lot.Starting the quest anew, without it? I'm not sure you, my players, would be interested in that type of quest, or really even ready to go at the same premise for the third fucking time holy shit (fourth if you count the og quest by another QM). Also I didn't only work on mechanics, but also the lore of the kingdoms and gods, characters and history, so it'd suck to lose all of that and start fresh.(1/2)
So that's the deal, and I want to know whether you have any ideas about how to resolve this issue. I don't really want to write the same opening adventures for the third time myself, even if they will be in a different area and for a different type of monster, so I don't know what to do. I realise it's retarded for a QM to ask his players "how should I work on this quest from here on?" since planning and running the quest is his fucking job, not the players'. But I'm really at a loss about what to do next. Currently set on revealing all the plot notes as a farewell and leaving this all behind to start another quest like the triple flake nigger that I am. If you have better ideas, please respond.Also while we're here, if you have any feedback about the quest in general, what could be improved, what you didn't like, what questions you have - feel free to throw them at me. Helps me learn for whatever I decide to do next.Previous threads: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Monster%20Reincarnation
>>6299363I personally dont mind if the system geta scaled back. You could very well have it be that the more familiar the character gets with the world the less they hear "the system" and lore an inner monologue as they get more Familar with their own capabilities seeing them less as stat points and more as. I am good at, grwst at, weak to etc. Maybe have it work more on a rock paper scizzor system where clever planning and ability usage is more important. So there can still be skills they just might be less mechanically involved.Sorry about being vague. I am mostly just spitballing ideas here. Will put more time to it when i manage to get back home
>>6299387The familiarity thing is a cool idea, but I'm not completely sure how to implement that. How the transition occurs, how the characters with "definite" stats compare to those without the "voice" etc. I will have to think about that.Rock-paper-scissors is essentially how it works already. Spells and skills matching the weakness of the enemy deal more damage, there are cooldowns for abilities making you plan when to use them - it's just that at the level of Ouroboros, it often comes down to blasting with everything at once and then finishing off whoever is left with plain physical attacks. Serious planning comes with a greater number of abilities countering and protecting against each other, and a greater variety of enemies, but that's what I'm trying to avoid. Hmm... Maybe I could rework it to be more strict in terms of counters, with no numbers, just "x ability counters y type of enemy or z type of defence". But when I thought it through now, after reading your post, it inevitably bloats with equipment, skill tiers (to determine whether x attacking skill is powerful enough to break through y defence), somehow integrating crystals into it or coming up with another levelling system. I will have to think about this more as well.Thanks for the input, I'll read whatever you have for me when you get home as well.
>>6299429Comparissons between those with stats and those witoit the voice would probably boil down to a greater sense of awareness of themselves and the world around them. People that can spot critical things easier, intuitively make better decisions(from an outsiders point of view at least). Have a generally better idea on how to progress to certain goals they set for themselves and find themselves woth mlre rewarda than usual. Be they physical or mental in nature. You already said that the aystem is already very rock paper scissors..... hmmm difficult to adapt that i agree. Personally i am a very crunchy guy so i like those kind of things. I am probably not the best to chanhe up things very much. This is a rough outline. Not sure if that would work. You might be able to work with +/-/! and X. Where + would be an advantage reducing a challenge number a - would increase the number. A ! Would be situation advantage making it more difficult for the enemy to fight back. With an X being something the enemy can take advantage of. Lets say we assign an enemy of roughly equivalanet level a Challenge Number of 50. For sake of comparisson Oruboros also gets a 50. With lets say 10 HP hits equivalent of 10 HP are needed to defeat the other. Light lance is very situationally effective since the enemy is undead would add a ! reducing the number for Oruboros to seriously hurt the enemy to 45 while increasing the enemies hits to defeat Oeuboros to 55. Frozen ground grants some help reducing Oruborous to wound number against his enemy to 45 or even 40. Enemy skills are taken into account in the same way with only significant skills actually adding or substracting. Then we roll d100s and compare them to our target number. When we get over it then a hit is scored with damage inflicted being equivalent to a Degrees of success level. So lets say our to hit number is 40 and a 62 is rolled. When comparing those results we take the numbers and subtract them. For every full 10 left over 1 HP of damage is dealt. In this case 2. This is to account for very situational small modifiers and not just take the tens numbers so small buffs and support stay relevant. Adjust target numbers and HP to liking depending on how much stronger an opponent is as well as narrative choice. Might work. I am not sure. Maybe i just made it overly complicated.
>>6299446Yeah, seems somewhat complicated to me. What I was doing until now was looking at the skills and traits of the battling sides, looking at the dice (a simple 1d100 roll against a set DC based, again, on the rough power comparison) and writing out the fight, narratively inserting certain skills where they would fit and keeping the dice in my mind for the kind of result it was supposed to be. I feel like it made the battles more exciting, with various twists, turns and definite consequences of spell use.Your offer seems like it streamlines the fights, but introduces crunch and more dice rolls. A proper system. I see how it can optimise the battles. Instead of using damage and stats, and remembering to apply them throughout the fight, just roll a contested die with all the modifiers piled together and see who wins and by how much. But it's still complex, maybe not in the sheer number of data that needs to be remembered, but in the balance still required to make reasonable match ups.Whatever I do, some note-keeping is inevitable. Question is, how much I can tolerate. There's a lot of stuff spawning from the need to compare power levels. Maybe your suggestion is best, after all.The other suggestion you mentioned, about more intuitive guidance and power estimation, I will take into account. I'll need to develop it some more in my notes to see if I'll be content with it. I'll work on that tomorrow.For now, waiting for other anons' input if they have any. Thread is still fresh, maybe they will respond later.
>>6299362Glad to hear from you again, man. About changing the system, couldn't you still keep most of the lore anyway ?
I've been thinking about anon's suggestion a bit. With only significant skills affecting the results, I could just transform all of them into a simple template with 2 variables: power number and damage type, determining how and by how much it affects the Challenge Number. Same for resistances.idk how to integrate status effects into it. Equipment is less complex, it can protect or attack, so it becomes similar to skills. I'm not content with it though. It loses the details that make combat fun and possible to strategise for. And if I write out the skills more extensively, it's just the same thing all over again, just with some streamlining tacked onto it. But I guess that's something I would face in any other case of fantasy combat. Counters, damage and all that.Maybe to make skills more specific, I could assign "tags" to them, to specify their exact effect. But as I said, it'd be no different from whatever I'm doing right now, in the end.As I'm thinking about it, it all seems like reinventing the wheel - problems that were solved by roleplaying systems. Maybe I'll need to look up rulebooks for ideas. I'd expect heavy dice-rolling from them, though, not suitable for the quest format.There's also the question of backward compatibility, so to speak. Explaining past events in the framework of this system.Just some intermediate thoughts that I had while making notes now.>>6299550There's a large amount of lore tied to crystals and stats, and them being intertwined themselves. Their harvesting, rarity, how they boost stats and why World Bosses are the most powerful there are. Skill trade. Powerful organisations, guilds, orders. Equipment boosting stats. Some historical events and their consequences. If I end up continuing the quest, I'll need to go through it all. As I've said, the System (if it can be called that) is embedded into the worldbuilding and the adventures you had so far.
When in doubt, refer to Re:spider. You don't really have to go full game system with it, us players are more than happy to notice how much damage we've already taken by severity of text descriptions.Also yes always take notes.As for skills, basically just list it as (beginner, medium, advanced, expert, master)-tiers. Fuck the math, it only adds stress. If any anons is so autistic they require you to outline the 1s and 0s then I'm afraid that anon probably isn't in the right quest. You do not need to appeal to every anon with a voice, but input shouldn't be outright ignored. Reasonable accommodations is the name of the game for a lot of situations.
>>6299719 Am this >>6299446 Anon on mobile. Just to clarify that if you feel like a less rules concrete system would be better i would still play the game. I was trying to suggest something that would reduce the itty bitty gritty details needed for record keeping. If you feel that its probably not really feasible i can certainly accept that and just be happy to continue playing
>>6300194>>6300382I'm glad to hear that you'd play even without the numbers. The goal is to make something that I myself would also be content with.As it is, there are these issues:1. A lot of stats, skills, traits etc. to keep track of and invent for every enemy and NPC you meet. This can be easily cut down on by simple tiers, as Quantequila said. But a lot still remains even with the precise numbers removed. This stuff comes part and parcel with an RPG. The streamlined system another anon has proposed optimises combat itself but not the underlying mechanics.2. The bigger problem is not even that, but this entire stat-tracking and levelling and RPG system skill numbers being ingrained in the worldbuilding. The EXP getting from defeating enemies, the crystal spawning and collection, the skill trading like that demon guy you met, how organisations like the paladins of Astorias become powerful, how the World Bosses function. Basically the world's metaphysics are based on RPG numbers and their farming. To throw away all that would be essentially to throw away everything you knew about the world and start from scratch. Might as well start a new quest.For the latter, I thought of maybe keeping it in the background as the general atmosphere, but not as the focus of the story.I think I'll TRY to do that. I'll work out some stuff and, if everything goes well, I'll resume the quest in a few days in this thread. And if I'm not content with the result, it'll be a wrap. Lore and plot revealed and farewell.
So... yeah, I made some notes and it didn't work out. Or, it could work but I wasn't satisfied with the result. As promised, I'm posting the lore and plot plans.First, we got>Crystals, Classes, RacesThe cornerstone of the world are crystals and the System. The crystals are the main source of power, along with levelling. Collected by monsters, they grant stat increases, skills, traits - whatever you want depending on rarity. Collected by humanoids, they do pretty much the same, but also depending on crystals they may open up Classes.Classes are a thing unique to regular humans and humanoids, they depend on the crystals collected and grant skills and traits as well. So if you spent some time collecting fire crystals and obtained a fire spell, and you were human, you could become a Mage and later a Pyromancer.Lily, the witch you found in the Cursed Bog, is, for example, a Mage-Duelist. She specialises in wielding both her Needle Sword and some magical spells.Monsters don't have Classes, but they have Races. The difference between the two is that Races are more restricted in growth, but "evolution steps" are more powerful. They affect the appearance of a monster and completely transform it upon advancing in evolution. But as you've seen, there is a limit to their growth, after which monsters are forced to either become a Chimera and start collecting other races (a rare development) or focus on collecting crystals.Classes, on the other hand, have less scaling, but a higher "ceiling", so a human that spends sufficiently long farming EXP will outscale a monster.There's a lot of population, but not enough crystals to make everyone a good warrior or grant unique skills enough to pick up a Class, so most of the people are either working the fields or crafting stuff in the workshops. Jobs without combat involved also allow one to gain EXP in their area, but don't require crystals to advance. They grant boons depending on the level of the craftsman. So it is ingrained in the System that a smith with 20 000 hours spent in the smithy works supernaturally better and faster than a journeyman.Crystals spawn in various parts of the world, but some have better crystals in general. So mounting expeditions to these high-value areas is both desirable, but also dangerous for states, since they usually also attract powerful monsters seeking the same power.Due to scarcity of crystals, they are usually concentrated in the hands of formidable warriors, which use them to level up, open up basic skills for adepts, since they'll need to retire eventually and pass on the power to a new generation, or pass them up through the "hierarchy of power". So at the bottom you have, for example, squires in training, which collect crystals in safe areas, then paladins (in Astorias) which mount expeditions to dangerous ones, then the high paladins for the greatest that guard the peace, and finally the World Bosses.
>World Bosses, their competition and crystal capsWorld Bosses are essentially gods incarnate. They don't do anything but seat at the core of their domains, being fed crystals to power up and protect their followers. Usually their place of residence has a SUPER POWERFUL crystal spawn point which they harvest to increase their power.Now here's a thing: there's a cap to power crystals can grant, so after obtaining enough, you are hit with diminishing returns. So the World Bosses have, over time, ended up on roughly the same level, but with different "specialisations" depending on their skill set. They would've loved to destroy other World Bosses to harvest their power, but they fear the consequences of defeat.So basically the entire world is a number of states with ultra-powerful protectors that are locked in a cold war between themselves.That's the concept, at least.Next, some notes on characters and areas.>AstoriasBasically generic fantasy kingdom. Perpetually at war with the demons to the south, there's paladins that control the crystals, the World Boss is a Light and Fire damage type thing called Sun-in-Rags (for some reason I like this name from Cultist Simulator, the game generally has some cool names). Their lands are poor in crystals, but fairly safe, so Astorians obtain them by mounting expeditions, as I said.>Selenianot!China with warlords headed by Sects that compete with each other, but are subservient to Sorcerer of Despair. Perpetually under assault from monstergirls and lizardmen from the jungles of Aztlan to the south. They themselves are to the east of Mountains of Doom, which lay between Selenia and Astorias. Some powerful crystals spawn here.>Mountains of DoomOrcs, goblins and mountain men. A lot of dungeons spawning here with crystal rewards.>Aztlannot!Aztecs. Well, not actually Aztecs, but a loose collection of city-states of lizardmen and indigenous people. Monstergirls, blood magic, good enough crystals.>DemonicaIt's demons! Scorched wasteland to the south of the Deadlands. At the centre is a portal to another dimension from which they pour out into the world. One of the plot lines would be closing it upon getting powerful enough.>Wildlands and MonsterlandsWildlands are an area to the west of Astorias. Some powerful crystals, prime ground for adventurers which collect them and sell them to Astorias. No central government to speak of.Monsterlands are further west. It is THE endgame area with the most powerful crystals and monsters to kill.>RiverlandsSouth of Wildlands, west of Demonica. Traders and water mages, with water dragon knights and water-based monsters. There was also a plot plan for Moth Knights here, which could request you to retrieve their knight's remains from the Wildlands in exchange for a sword from the island of swords at the middle of their sacred lake.>TeshretEven less to speak of, it's Egypt basically. To the south of Riverlands.
>Kingdom of RaineThe place where the Meta-Oracles reside. Fortresses, mage nobles, priesthood trying to contest their power, common folk suffers. Lots of elven woods. South of Demonica.>ReincarnationThere is a cap of 7 penalties, then you die for good. There's a way to reduce them, but it requires a lot of effort and time. Alchemists of Selenia know of a potion to restore abilities.>>Characters>Lily Arante, the WitchHad a happy childhood, but parents died and she found out they passed on a huge debt to her. Became a mage through some expeditions, then agreed to 10 years in the Cursed Bog collecting crystals and overseeing the area to pay the debt off. You met her at the end of her work. Has some trouble trusting people from her experience with the parents. Primary motivation: curiosity. Her inspiration is Hornet from Hollow Knight.>Enric, the ScholarA Marebito (reincarnator) himself, Lily's acquaintance from her initial expeditions years ago. Cheat skill: sharp mind. Helped out kings and influential people in the past, but ended up at odds with the powers due to rudeness and insubordination. Now in hiding and just wants to chill while studying fellow reincarnators. Wants to find a girl from his past, just like mc.The tip he could give you against that reincarnator you needed to kill would be to reduce his equipment capacity to the negatives through spells. It causes a glitch in the System that negates the cheat skill he has, allowing you to kill him.>Eno, the ElfThe one you met at the sacred spring and near the Bog. She's been betrayed in the past by her party of humans, left to die, but survived through sheer skill and then took revenge on her former party members, maiming them. Calm, but vindictive. Doesn't really like socialising or helping out her kind, but feels an obligation to do so by blood. Had another experience where elven warriors promised to help out Selenians but few showed up - another reason for her mistrust of others. Her plot line would be gradually cutting off her old acquaintances and travelling with Ouroboros.>Lorraine, the Sun KnightAspired to be a paladin from childhood, excelled in combat, but eventually broke a vow of chastity with a monstergirl and refused to consider it heresy. This opened him up to some monster interactions. His plotline would be reconciling relations with monsters and his faith.That's about all for the characters I have.
Now for the main plot, it's not really that complicated.>YOUAfter you met the Meta-Oracles, you wouldn't find out much that you didn't already know. Your 2 [Hidden] traits would be [Reincarnator] which allowed travel between worlds of the multiverse and [Cursed], a trait given by the gods of the multiverse (the ones above the regular gods of this world) for reasons unknown, dooming you to ultra bad luck. The Oracles would also tell you that it is known that whoever defeats 3 of the World Bosses would be granted a wish by the gods of the multiverse.Once you levelled up enough and killed 3 of them, you would face one FINAL CHALLENGE, the ULTIMATE BOSS. It's a shadow of yourself, same abilities, same stats. But it doesn't really matter, because whatever the result, you would be deemed entertaining enough to be granted a wish by the gods.You could ask them questions about why you were cursed in the first place, and they would tell you that this was by sheer randomness. They basically gave a few souls the big "fuck you you're cursed lol" trait and watched them for entertainment while they journeyed through the worlds.You could wish for the world to end, for others you met to suffer as you did, to have the trait be removed and live a normal life, to join the gods, to be forever happy with the girl you love - whatever you come up with. And after the wish is fulfilled, that would be the end of the quest.The amber-eyed girl you loved has somehow become soul-bound to you across your reincarnations, so you're basically eternal companions unless you wish to end that link. You could find her after searching through the world, I didn't plan how exactly, but you would get a tip from someone in Astorias which would lead to her. She's just a little "destined companion" and side-character.And that's about all I have. There's other lore and mechanics, but I've already written a text wall and don't want to extend it any further.Thanks for playing. Keep an eye out for new quests, maybe it will be me running them. I'll try to prepare more in advance this time around.
>>6301835Thanks for posting dude. Sad to see it go. Anything in particular you wanna run next or go in the direction of?
>the qt3.14 lich we kept getting in the way off in the deadlands had no lore to herThis is the worst day of my life.
>>6301853Didnt she already spill her guts. With how her whole party was killed super hard and how she swore revenge upon the Lich. Becoming one herself and both of them killing each other several times already till they are both on their last life.
>>6301856>there's a third thread I didn't participate inGuess I didn't read the whole quest.
>>6301853Basically what >>6301856 said. Lina's background was already revealed. Her plotline would be finding meaning in this world after she sacrificed everything to achieve her goal, and is like "so, now what?" after her victory. Trying to work around her reincarnation penalties and looking for purpose.>>6301843One of my major inspirations for questing is Ex-Fighter Chimera Quest. Just like og Monster Reincarnation, it ended early. I'll steal the premise, justifying my name of QuestStealer again, with some modifications and better preparations. And by better preparations I mean preparing EVERYTHING, every arc, many NPCs, worldbuilding, general idea of scenes. idk if it'll be with rolls or fully narrative even.I basically already tried to fit in elements from it (the chimera theme of collecting races and growing in power through it), but this will be different, with an initially human and humanoid in shape (probably) MC, and "kicked out of the hero's party" trope instead of reincarnation.idk if I'll go through with it, my attention is fickle, maybe I'll run some oneshots. But the current plan is this.I may return to run a pure monster MC quest, but it probably won't be an isekai or litRPG. Also it won't be in the near future for sure.btw if you want to check out the original QM of Ex-Fighter Chimera in the mean time, here's the link: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=FlakemanComethIt's a great read. I recommend it.
>>6301879Shame to see I was too late with my change suggestion but here it is anyway - Pokémon style to reduce skill bloat. You’re capped at 4 skills. If you have 4 and you find a 5th you gotta throw it out or forget an existing skill.
