Why aren't you a Communist yet?Surely you've realized Capitalism has run its course? I wouldn't call it a failure, since it was a necessary step in human social evolution, but we don't need it anymore. The next step in the evolutionary chain needs to happen.
because i'm not retarded, unfortunately. go move to china if you want communism so much.
>>82683769>Why aren't you a Communist yet?my great grandparent were sent to the gulag
>>82683769Because National Socialism is better for me
>>82683769Where we're going, we don't need communism
>>82683828>I'm not retardedSo post your own opinion instead of parroting someone else's.>>82683837What did they do?>>82683839National Socialism is a meme that died with the Strasserists. Fascism and Socialism are completely incompatible. You cannot have Socialism in a society that requires a caste system to sustain its existence and therefore will always seek to create a new one if the "out-group" is removed. Hitler figured this out and that's why he had all the national socialists killed so they couldn't criticize him for failing to do anything socialist.
>>82683872I'm sorry I don't subscribe to the delusions of Indian "prompt engineers." You should get a job instead of waiting for AI to grant you salvation.
>Isnt it time to move on to the next step of evolution?>By reverting to an archaic tried-and-failed authoritarian government?The next evolution hasnt been seen in action, so communism isnt the next step
>>82683891I don't care, I want people who aren't white to die
>>82683959>tried-and-failedwdym? seems to be working finesaying communism failed because the ussr failed is like saying capitalism failed because the british empire failed. it's a nonsensical interpretation of history.
>Why aren't you a Communist yet?The 20th century is still within living memory.
>>82683931>get a job instead of waiting for AIHow about both?
>>82684022So far AI has only made the world worse desu I don't see where the optimism comes from.
>>82684005Chinese poverty is on a level of suffering that american poverty cant even fathom. Taking into account that china frowns on individual rights, you have a recipe for slavery worse than the age of Egyptian pharaohs
>>82683891>What did they do?Were part of a ethics (german) minority
>>82684044I think automation and the analysis of big data sets is why it is hyped. Though I'm a pleb-layman whom does not understand the implications of AI simulating biology, chemistry, and physics.
>>82684088>Chinese poverty is on a level of suffering that american poverty cant even fathom.No it's not. China doesn't have gang violence or opioid addiction.>Taking into account that china frowns on individual rightsChina has plenty of individual rights though. Chinese police don't even carry guns. When it comes to economic exploitation, China is more aggressive in fighting against the rich.
>>82683769In theory I'm a communist (well, socialist), but in practice I don't see how it could possibly work. I think humans are simply too stupid and self-destructive to carry out something so sensible and efficient.
>>82684211You may be right but we have to try anyway, because the alternative is complete extinction. The theory that the Great Filter is sociological(lifeforms failing to unite their society) makes the most sense to me. But just because we might fail doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I imagine countless civilizations throughout the universe have failed and fallen to infighting, corruption, and greed before they could ever leave their planet. It'd be sad if humanity has the same fate.
>>82683769So long as capital exists there are those who control it and those who don't. Even fully democratized systems leave some disenfranchised. All systems are capitalist, it's only a question of how centrally distributed capital is.Marxists believe that central planning of capital resources is the solution to capital being over-centralized. Instead of capital being controlled by a few million people in the 1% it's controlled by a few thousand high ranking party members.
>>82684244Ultimately I think it is out of any one person, group, or country's/powerbloc control. Unless there is some great conqueror/uniter, we have to find another way off rock.
>>82683769Already radicalized myself into eco-fascism, sorry anon.
>>82684257>Instead of capital being controlled by a few million people in the 1% it's controlled by a few thousand high ranking party members.That's not really true.For one, Communism does not necessarily require a vanguard party, nor does it require representative democracy. Those are merely stopgaps on the path to a true classless society. In a hypothetical Communist society that has achieved full class equality, government employees would be nothing more than bureaucrats whose power over your life only goes so far as the power given to them by the people.Especially given the current trend in America of politicians being absurdly wealthy and openly using their position to enrich themselves and their friends, I don't see how this differs from your hypothetical Communist corruption. The 1% is not evenly distributed under Capitalism, it's pretty much just those with political connections and their servants.
>>82684174China doesn't even have toilets for 20% of it's population, and that was after their decade long, centrally planned toilet revolution. Serious question, how much control of capital should be democratized and centrally planned? 30 percent? 40? 50? How much control would be needed to ensure needs are met?
>>82683769Communism is moral fuckery
>>82684297>merely stopgaps on the path to a true classless society.If people would voluntarily cede control of capital once they have enough, why haven't they yet? Why is your solution to give them more control of capital until they eventually decide to give it back? There's been no historical example of someone meaningfully giving up overwhelming social and capital control without a bloody revolution.Everyone likes the goal, the method for achieving it is shit. That's your problem. You're so enamored with the possible good outcome that you've not done any critical thinking about how the proposed changes would reign in that change.> I don't see how this differs from your hypothetical Communist corruptionGlad we agree. Your proposal solves nothing.
>>82684335>Serious question, how much control of capital should be democratized and centrally planned? 30 percent? 40? 50? How much control would be needed to ensure needs are met?How can one provide an answer to this question that is definitive across all societies and economic states? The control needed to eliminate poverty in India is vastly different from what is required in Western Europe.The simplest answer would be to just have the government control the bottom segment of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and then move upwards as society develops. ie, in a totally undeveloped society the government needs to control housing, food production, and eventually move on to education, job training, etc and eventually once your people's basic needs are met you start investing in the arts to give them self-actualization. Seems logical to me.>>82684370>If people would voluntarily cede control of capital once they have enough, why haven't they yet? Why is your solution to give them more control of capital until they eventually decide to give it back? There's been no historical example of someone meaningfully giving up overwhelming social and capital control without a bloody revolution.The party are not kings. If they're spending too much time enriching themselves and not meaningfully improving society you just replace/kill them. In theory this would be the same in the West but the Capitalists are too deeply entrenched and cannot be removed at this point since literally everyone in government works for them.The funny thing is Westerners love to point to the USSR and CCP's constant purges as examples of "authoritarianism" or "rampant corruption" but in reality this is what's supposed to happen in a functioning society: inefficient and corrupt politicians being regularly removed and punished for their crimes. When the CCP executes billionaires it's extremely popular domestically.
>>82683769Communism lost in the 20th century. Every experiment failed. Be it in Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia. They promised workers Paradise but they never delivered.
China is a fascist state.Han nationalism overwrites international solidarity.And that's a good thing (for the Han Chinese)!
>>82683769I don't agree with dialectical materialism.History does not "progress" or "develop" in phases.
>>82684427>How can one provide an answer to this question that is definitive across all societies and economic states? I would hope someone that wants to radically transform society would have an answer for that kind of question. You don't even know what you will need to get the job done. You'd have to be a moron or corrupt to sign a blank check like that, but we've got plenty of both. >The simplest answer would be to just have the government control the bottom segment of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and then move upwards as society develops.Ok, so how are you going to get people do to that? Any system works when people play nice and consider the needs of others. What makes central planning more capable of achieving this than any other model? >not meaningfully improving society you just replace/kill themOnce again, not a feature unique to socialism, Communism, or any other system. You're describing the historical status quo. Things start out good, things go to shit, kill the old boss, put in a new boss. Once again, your system doesn't do anything the current system isn't already doing. >The funny thing is Westerners love to point to the USSR and CCP's constant purges as examples of "authoritarianism" or "rampant corruption" but in reality this is what's supposed to happen in a functioning societyStrawman. Nobody made that claim here. Blood of patriots and tyrants. Any true American would agree.Every system is capitalist. There's capital, some people control it, other people don't. The only thing you can do is try to keep control as decentralized as possible.
>>82684478I also don't want to end up in a concentration camp.
>>82684526this argument always never made sense to me because the US has a higher incarceration rate than the USSR or CCP ever did.red scare propaganda never dies it seems.
>>82684538I don't want to end up in a US prison either.
>>82683891>You cannot have Socialism in a society that requires a caste system to sustain its existenceAs if the Politburo are not their own seperate caste in all practical sense.
>>82684297>For one, Communism does not necessarily require a vanguard party
>>82684612People are elected or appointed to the politburo and their descendants don't retain that status. While members of the politburo do receive privileges it's not really anything like a caste system.I'm talking about actual caste systems, like the ones National Socialism promotes. Ones where you are seen as inferior simply for where you were born or your skin color. You can't have socialism in a society where you need an out-group to absorb all the burdens of your society so the in-group can reap the rewards of their labor.
>>82684538Probably because you don't think jailing people for pointing out the fact that socialism is unworkable dogshit is a problem.
>>82684658but its okay when America does it?
>>82683891>>82683931Wealth distribution is a meme. Actual material conditions have improved dramatically over the years for the average person living under capitalism. The 1% getting so rich is just the natural result of consolidation. I don't really care if Jeff Bezos has hundreds of billions of dollars because my life is enriched by having whatever I want delivered to my house overnight. That's capitalism and it's beautiful.
>>82684644>"the bourgeoisie">"counter-revolutionaries">"reactionaries"These's your outgroup.
>>82684678>>Wealth distribution is a meme. Actual material conditions have improved dramatically over the years for the average person living under capitalism.My grandparents had healthcare and a pension.I don't have healthcare or a pension.Technology is not a substitute for material conditions.
>>82684669No, but what's the proportion of people being arrested for criticizing Israel vs. dealing drugs in the US compared to the reasons people were gulag'd in communist shitholes?
>>82683931>You should get a jobNo.
>>82684625Yeah, one just ends up taking power every time, with no intention or relinquishing it.Totally coincidental btw.
>>82683769What are the different flavors of being a commie and what brand of it are you trying to peddle?
>>82683769>NameBecause the difference between private property and personal property is a sham and it can and will change depending the whims of the governing body.
>>82684698People are gulag'd for a wide variety of reasons in "Communist shitholes" and most of them aren't for criticizing the party. It's usually for the same kinds of crimes Americans go to jail for. Drugs, theft, assault, rape, etc. The number of people purged under the USSR over purely political disagreements is pretty small. Also, getting gulag'd is not a life sentence. Xi Jinping's father was purged and sent to a work camp and look where he is now.I really just don't see why Americans cling to the gulags comparison when our system is just as brutal as what they think the Communists did.>>82684726I'm not peddling any specific brand of Communism, but personally I think we need to move away from focusing on the imperial core so I guess I'm a Third Worldist.
>>82684689Pensions are what got us into this shit show in the first place. A defined benefit plan means that the next generation has to make up any shortfall. If things don't go as planned you still get yours. People are incentivized to over promise and attract loyal labor now, knowing that they'll have also retired by the time it comes to pay up.It's the root cause of the gerontocracy. You can have nice shit too if you sell out your bloodline.
>>82684750America's pension system was doing fine until the Republicans promised the baby boomers they could have tax cuts while still keeping their pensions and just pass off the cost to the next generation. This isn't a universal law of pensions, it's just a universal law of liberalism. If you build a stupid shortsighted society you get stupid shortsighted results.
>>82684689Technology is material conditions. I have every book and movie ever made in the palm of my hand, I have whatever groceries I want delivered fresh to my house, I have central air conditioning, I have cars with airbags and backup cameras, I can travel to the other side of the planet in 12 hours, I can goon with my AI girlfriend, and I have more advanced healthcare than any of my ancestors. Life is clearly better for me than my parents or their parents, etc.
>>82684780>I have every book and movie ever made in the palm of my hand, I have whatever groceries I want delivered fresh to my house, I have central air conditioning, I have cars with airbags and backup cameras, I can travel to the other side of the planet in 12 hours, I can goon with my AI girlfriend, and I have more advanced healthcare than any of my ancestors. Life is clearly better for me than my parents or their parents, etc.China has all these things too and yet they also have pensions and healthcare and affordable housing. Capitalism didn't give you these things, humans did.
>communism thread>it's just apologetics for russia and chinaEverytime.
Because communism and all left ideologies had been coopted by the likes of Vaush to promote things that it contradicts the ideology itself
>>82684797I said I have healthcare, the best healthcare in the world in fact. >affordable housing The housing market has been fucked by government regulations. Relax zoning laws and building regulations and the housing crisis is fixed.
>>82683769In case you forgot, we tried both systems at the same time. Communism failed catastrophically.>it was not real communism!Every instance of the populous rising up, seizing power and seizing the means of production etc. ended up co-opted and millions died. It is inherently susceptible to one guy taking over and letting everyone starve.Capitalism has many flaws but I will take that any day over some blue haired cunt sending me to the gulag because I wanted to keep the stuff I worked hard for.
>>82684764Historically untrue. The first pension failures and subsequent government bailouts happened before WWII. It was the railroad unions negotiating pension terms that were not sustainable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_BoardIf you have the opportunity to promise something that someone else will have to deal with later it benefits you to make that promise. Your competition will out-compete for labor if you if you don't, and your company will go tits up.Enshittification is nothing new, and a near universal constant. You have to over deliver in an unsustainable way to win people over and get a foothold over what's currently being offered. If you don't do this then you will lose to people who do.
>>82684856>In case you forgot, we tried both systems at the same time. Communism failed catastrophically.It's not the 20th century anymore.
>>82684748During the peak of the great purge half of all gulag inmates were political prisoners. The level of those critical of the system never went below 20-25% of the gulag population. Overall 10% of the gulag population died over the lifetime of the gulag system. The America prison system doesn't even approach 1%. Why are you defending the gulags?
>>82684862>The entire planet decides to build everything in one communist shithole.>Shithole proceeds to become world power in ~3 decades.>Starts threatening other nations with war and copies everything and builds it even cheaper.>Retards in western nations buy Chinesium garbage tech devices filled with spyware and use CCP spyware-infested social networks, further aiding the shithole's growth.>Can't do anything to fight this cancer because everything is built there so China can easily fight back by refusing to build our shit.Our leaders in the West created this monster. They are absolute idiots. They couldn't even respect the simple rule of "Don't put all your eggs in one basket".
>>82684815Would you prefer to defend Cambodia or North Korea?
>>82684910>exploiting the bourgeois' greed to destroy themthis one simple trick makes Capitalists seethe
>>82684862China is literally fascist though.
Because I'm not a suicidal mutant who hates himself and the world. The world and life are good and our natural instincts are good. Humanity has no need for "progress", ideology, government, or religion, we only need to embrace our humanity and follow our pure nature. If for you that means you want you die, then have fun. But do not try to convince others to join you. Mind your own life, and go be at peace.
>>82685015>Because I'm not a suicidal mutant who hates himself and the world.stop lying phase fanclara is based tho
>>82684797People are never satisfied unless things are getting better. You can blast away your dopamine receptors and jerk off to literal millions of anime titties for free. In 1995 you had to pay $30 (nearly 8 hours of federal minimum wage) for a single VHS tape with some anime titties mixed in with monster rape. At the time though it was worth it, we hadn't seen anime titties yet, so it felt like an upgrade in lifestyle.To be fair, it does feel like we've beaten the game. Everything has been optimized for dopamine maxing, so the only way to ensure growth is by doing inefficient bullshit. Have to create artificial scarcity, FOMO, and planned obsolescence to continue having a market.
>>82685025I have no use for lies, my friend.I want da wose for Invaders 4. That's my only pick.
>>82685090good taste, and i kinda wouldn't be surprised.
>>82683891They removed the jews and all of the internal problems disappeared though, they didn't have to remove anyone else. Cope
>>82685096She's goin home.
>>82685228yeah, mineoriginal post
>>82685255You're next, whore
>>82683769Communism is impossible and every socialist state turned into an authoritarian shithole
>>82685315>every socialist state turned into an authoritarian shitholein contrast to all the capitalist states that uh...aren't authoritarian shitholes?
>>82685320>in contrast to all the capitalist states that uh...aren't authoritarian shitholes?Yes.
>>82685320Correct. Where would you rather live, China or Taiwan? North Korea or South Korea? East Germany or West Germany? etc. Capitalist states have greater liberty and quality of life than communist ones.
>>82685376>China or Taiwan?China>North Korea or South Korea?Neither both are dystopian shitholes>East Germany or West GermanyNeither exists anymore
>>82685384>Neither exists anymoreReally? What happened?
>>82685423the jews happened
>>82684748>Only a couple of people were purged for political disagreements guys. It was only a teeny tiny purge.Oh thank god. That makes it so much easier to accept communism now. It is so nice knowing they only purged every single political person that did not espouse the party line.>Look I know that 60 million people died but Xi dad got out. I mean what a success story amiright?Are you actually this retarded?>I do not see why Americans cling to gulagsIt is not just the US. Look at every former Soviet state grouping together and saying fuck no to Russia and China. Gulags did and still continue today. I am pretty sure I am not left to starve to death, beaten and tortured in a western prison because I did not like Trump/Kamala/Macron/Kier or whoever the fuck else. Meanwhile you have people get disappeared constantly in the CCP etc to this day. Without even mentioning all the shit from the past. Your ideology is dogshit and you are a disingenuous piece of shit for trying to paint it and sell it in a good light>But if we change all of human nature, find a Jesus like figure to distribute the capital and install these utopian ideals in humanity. Communism would be perfect.I can do that too. If we just make sure none of our politicians are corrupt and all the CEO are nice people who want to help the country and pay everyone fairly. Then we will have the perfect capitalist society guys!
>>82683769>Why aren't you a Communist yet?I'm more of a communist than you will ever be, you dumb LARPer.
>>82684458This. China traded away communism for national socialism a long time ago.
