Life can be boiled down to a pursuit of "the good chemicals".As in, all you are is a flesh robot having your strings plucked by DNA, every "choice" you think "you" make is just your programming. There is no "you", even. It's all an elaborate illusion, it's magic, a trick. The pretentions and lofty opinions we have of ourselves are the spells. The only "why" or "what for" in existence is to multiply. It's about quantity, not quality, of life. Always more, always expanding, always reaching out. The only question you really have to ask yourself every day is: What am I willing to suffer through to get what I want? And it's ok to say "I'm not willing to suffer at all, if I can avoid it".
alright but if naturalism had hair what would be the difference?
>>83414510I'm gonna make a stab in the dark here and infer your point through your shitpost but:There is no difference. If you can gaslight yourself into experiencing a reality more pleasing to the mind and heart, go for it. "I" can't. I wish I could, life would be so much more bearable. I'm not gonna force you to agree with me, but I genuinely think this is how things work and I don't see how anything could ever change my mind after almost two decades of thinking about this.
>>83414492Life is about legacyWe don't remember the names Albert Einstein or William Shakespeare because of the kids they had, or the "good chemicals" in their brain that made them feel good
>>83414538Could you explain what the alternative could possibly be? Like what did you think things were like?
free will is real because I decided to type this out
>>83414558Well the thing I held onto the longest was the idea of the illogical, a soul. Or however you want to call it. The idea of a spark of life within a human being that defies logical explanation, something you could never point to in the physical world or recreate through artificial means. I mean, when you listen to music, it can be a very potent thing, it can make you forget all your depressing "facts" and "realities" and even now I'll find myself like a snake being charmed, falling back under the shared spell of humanity when I listen to specific music. But then I eventually sober up and realise what's happening to me, and it's an addictive feeling to be under the spell but once the illusion is broken you can never fully be put under ever again. This might sound like vague waffle but I'm trying to put it in simple terms. I'm objectively having a worse time in life for having this perspective, no doubt, but I can't go back. I just can't.
>>83414607You mentioned soul but didn't really describe what it would be, or anyway your description is too vague to really be reliable. Spark of life could be as basic as seeing a girl that you didn't know was there before.
>>83414552>Life is about legacy>We don't remember the names Albert Einstein or William Shakespeare because of the kids they hadOk, name me 10 famous playwright's of the Akkadian Empire. Oh right, you can't, they're all dead and their earthly deeds are nothing but dust and shadows. But what remains? Their descendants. Their DNA.
>>83414492>As in, all you are is a flesh robot having your strings plucked by DNA, every "choice" you think "you" make is just your programming. There is no "you", even. It's all an elaborate illusion, it's magic, a trick. Prove it
>>83414635>Prove itOk. Tell me an event that happened in your life, where you took actions and made choices and were an active participant in the event. Then I'll prove to you how you were never really in control.
>>83414492Complete garbage. In order to know something's an illusion you need awareness. Without awareness you wouldn't be able to know something's an illusion so you're making zero sense. Biological determenism is peak midwittery.
>>83414675Semantics.A.I. knows it's A.I., does that mean it has consciousness? No, it's a silly little trick. You have to understand human reasoning and logic and our perception of reality is not objective, it's just a blunt tool for us to navigate the world better.
>>83414691>A.I. knows it's A.I., does that mean it has consciousness?Neural networks don't know anything. It was just programmed to make it seem like it knows what it is to you. But it's all smoke and mirrors. >You have to understand human reasoning and logic and our perception of reality is not objectiveSo you're saying reality isn't real outside of your head? Are you going to solipsism now?
>>83414630>But what remains? Their descendants. Their DNAFake and gay, individual's genetic material gets diluted into oblivion by seventh generation. Only population DNA may remain indentifiable if a group stays not diluted
>>83414705>Neural networks don't know anything. It was just programmed to make it seem like it knows what it is to you. But it's all smoke and mirrors.Yeah, just like humans. You don't KNOW know anything, and you can't prove you do.>So you're saying reality isn't real outside of your head?If I remove your head from your body, your sense of reality will cease.But to be serious, for all intents and purposes reality is what your senses and brain tell you it is. But you can't actually KNOW what it is, because you're limited by your own human flesh. Even copying your brain atom for atom into a digital form wouldn't change this, because you created the digital form. And no, people sharing similar perceptions of reality isn't any more proof than one persons perception of reality, any more than the shared perceptions of what molerats think reality is. 10 wrong people aren't right because they all agree on a wrong thing.
>>83414725>you can't prove you're conscious Neither can you, nobody can. The difference is that our brains are infinitely more complex than a super computer. And we do know that consciousness is quantum mechanical phenomenon that arrises from emergent behavior. A magnetic field has no physical form. Does that mean magnetic fields aren't real either? >If I remove your head from your body, your sense of reality will cease.That's actually false and demonstrated. If I cut off your head you will continue to function until the lack of blood would eventually lead to your death. But even then your neurons retain their data like an SD card, which might still be in contact with your consciousness in death.>10 wrong people aren't right because they all agree on a wrong thing.That doesn't mean there is no objective reality. If reality didn't exist why can we all see the same things and interact with the same things? You're not making sense, pal. I love philosophy but this borders on schizophrenia.
>>83414643You arguing isn't proof. My point was your claim can't be falsified but you present it as gospel determinist truth
>>83414492I disagree. There is the spiritual self. Our soul that makes is individuals and soul mates with another.
>>83414767>but you present it as gospel determinist truthAre you so insecure in your own assessment of the world that HOW I present my own is more bothersome to you than the actual things I'm saying? I present it as gospel truth because TO ME it is, I don't care one whit whether what I percieve to be the truth is agreeable to you or not. YOU know what YOU believe, why are you so easily disturbed in your own inner peace by someone else stating their own beliefs with confidence?I mean it. Like think about that. Why are you bothered? You shouldn't be.
>>83414752>The difference is that our brains are infinitely more complex than a super computer. And we do know that consciousness is quantum mechanical phenomenon that arrises from emergent behavior.This is a fantasy humanity likes to believe in because it makes us feel good. "Quantum mechanical phenomenon" is nothing but theoretical waffle that by definition can never be definitively proved to exist. It's science going full circle and becoming as illogical as the religions it sought to replace, because that's what humans crave ultimately. The magic, the illusion.>That doesn't mean there is no objective reality.I didn't claim that.I said human beings are incapable of percieving it because we are incomplete creatures, with many flaws and shortcomings we will never overcome or we will cease to be human.
>>83414675Awareness doesn't exempt you from the process. 90% of people don't know what a pituitary gland/hypothalamus is nor how dopamine affects their decision making. They just do what they feel from birth to death.Understanding of your slavery to brain chemicals doesn't free you from it. At best it might make you think more before making a decision, which is just wasting time since your brain makes decisions for you 2-3 seconds before you actually think it. Knowing a magician is crafting an illusion still won't let your eyes see where the ace of diamonds went, you just aren't as impressed by the trick.
>>83415130This is a good way to put it.
>le chemical imbalance. you need drugs or you'll never improveis pseudoscience at this point. i feel bad for all the people who were misled in the 00s and 10s who suffered brain zaps in vain.
>>83414984>quantum mechanics isn't real Magnets are quantum mechanical. They're very real because without them you'd have no electricity or 4chan. So don't give me that lame excuse.>said human beings are incapable of percieving it because we are incomplete creatures, with many flaws and shortcomings we will never overcome or we will cease to be human.Flawed does not mean robotic or without consciousness. There's a difference.>>83415130>Understanding of your slavery to brain chemicals doesn't free you from it. At best it might make you think more before making a decisionExcept not every action is determined by chemicals alone. Darwinists argue the same thing yet none of the things we do in the 21st century is even remotely biological. We get more synthetic with each passing day. If we truly were biological robots we wouldn't have a birth rate crisis. Nor a suicidal race that hates itself for existing while it managed to survive for centuries without issues.
>>83415749>Except not every action is determined by chemicals alone.Such as?> If we truly were biological robots we wouldn't have a birth rate crisis. Nor a suicidal race that hates itselfThese are symptoms of a species under intense stress and mental illness brought on by horrible environmental conditions.
if everything is reducible to chemicals, then you could say the same thing wrt motion. so i think this is a bad point to make.
>>83414492you're already out of fashion by 20th century
>>83416216>then you could say the same thing wrt motionWhat?
>>83416304dyor dyel
>>83416146>such as? The brain is also electrical. Signals aren't just transmitted through chemicals. My body tells me to fuck the entire time, do I act upon it like a wild dog? No. And don't give me that ''other chemicals hold it in pla..'' No. It's because I know it's hopeless and a waste of time. >These are symptoms of a species under intense stress and mental illness brought on by horrible environmental conditions.Environmental conditions my foot. They create everything themselves, it's not stress it's contentment. You really think our ancestors weren't stressed by disease, war, famine and high child mortality?
