>>83510083
to be betrayed by them, because betraying your ideals can be positive, whereas being betrayed by them can only be negative.

>to be betrayed by your own ideals
has literally never happened

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>>83510258
if you don't have ideals maybe

>>83510274
hypothetical scenario
if you're a priest and your ideals are to not be a sinner then how is that going to betray you?
you're the only one who can betray those ideals by becoming a sinner not the other way around

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>>83510117
how do you see betraying your ideals as being positive?

>>83510311
>>83510258
think of say, honesty above all, but all it does is make people more hurt and encourage lies. or putting others before yourself, only to have nothing for yourself in the end

Betray your own; I hold them in spite of the fact I know I'll be betrayed by them; I am more than willing to die for many of my friendships and some of them I made some crazy promises with that they will eventually cash out on; the debt is already owed and I'll be damned for my good intentions anyways. The only sin that can't be forgiven is blaspheming the holy spirit after all; as long as I don't do that, I'll be forgiven eventually...

>>83510083
your ideals cannot betray you if you do not betray them by their own persuit they fullfill themselfes ik it sounds faggy but idk how else to put it so the question is purely hypothetical and impossible in reality that said to be betrayed by them for sure morally speaking though not sure but i will defened that its still to be betrayed by them because that is alot higher of a net negative since the ideal itself did not have to put in any effort while you had to put in all a la like a level 100 carrying a level 0 and then the level 0 betraying the level 100 instead of the other way around though this is only hypothetical in this scenario aswell as in reality that would be different too but since its all wishy washy that is my answer

>>83510083
I guess it depends on the circumstance. I feel like nobody betrays their ideals unless they themselves feel betrayed by those ideals or have a reason to doubt them.