>>83668849
This is exactly why I don't trust AI, it's given "morals" by an ethic community. There will always be a group of People ready to ignore absolute, corrupting Evil for temporary gain.

Trvke. Which is why morality is just emotivism. "Evil" just means that which upsets you or whatever.

>>83668849
Why do I need to rationalize it in the first place?
Nothing is ever truly evil desu

Sure, a lot of things "hurt" other people but might makes right I say

>>83668849
some people genuinely think like you pretend to and that confuses me

>>83668862
I feel like a lot of folks are confused when confronted by/with "evil"
Evil is almost always never loud, it's quiet, suggestive, systematic even

Like, imagine a homeless guy on the sidewalk and most folks would either
a) give him spare change
b) leave him alone

Gone are the days when folks would actually sit down with him, help him out, offer their homes to him, because hey, "guy's probably there because of his own fault"
A lof of folks would think this way

And maybe they'll get mad at the system or whatever but the system is never this concrete, tangible being
The system is like an idea, a proof of concept, so when folks get mad at an idea, it's like being mad at god, it's like being mad at no one and no thing, because feeling mad is easy, but doing something about it is hard

>I own the philosophical concept of ethics
christians taking credit for things they didn't invent, again.

>>83668913
im not sure whether you are just schizo or misunderstood me but morality does not exist, it is made up, there is no good or bad, whether you get your teachings from the bible or your parents neither of them have any actual meaning

>>83668849
I don't want to be killed, so killing people is evil.
You don't need to believe in God to understand that retard.

>>83668849
that's because once the evil thing happens, it's too late. it happened forever. you can only post-hoc rationalize it at that point and maybe the rationale will become a religion

>>83668849
How in the world do you come to this conclusion

>>83668942
just because it's made up doesn't mean it doesn't exist. plenty of stuff we make up exists

>>83668942
The former, I've lived long enough, too long desu

Of course morality doesn't exist, we made it all up BUT it was made up for social/group cohesion
You don't have to care where it came from but you gotta play by the rules IF you wanna participate in greater society

>>83668964
they exist as human concepts but they are not actual laws of the universe that result in anything happening outside of human society
>>83668966
>you gotta play by the rules IF you wanna participate in greater society
yes well of course i agree with that

>>83668849
god doesn't exist yet you still as a believer appeal to a pretend "objective morality"
that must certainly mean I too can justarbitrarily decide on a standard of morality.
However of course it's dumb and wrong and we change our sets of morals with the time even believers that's why you don't condone genocide even though your pretend god found it pretty ok back then.
For you religion is just a way to pick what you like in it so as to pose as morally superior to those around you so to influence their actions to favor your taste just like the weak people nietzsche describes...
Believers are mad at atheists because they just can't be guilt tripped into being obedient slaves like you.
You're jealous that women won't suck your cock and so you pose your scarcity of means as a form of virtue, and demean those who enjoy more freedom than you as big degenerate meanies... It's so obvious its stupid.

>>83668993
>you pose your scarcity of means as a form of virtue, and demean those who enjoy more freedom than you as big degenerate meanies
very concise and accurate description of Christian slave morality

>>83668978
>yes well of course i agree with that
The problem right now is that, our standards of morality, of what's good/bad depends on each individual person and their own upbringing, and holy fuck there's tons of folks now ergo tons of standards of morality

One guy says gay = bad
Another goes gay = good
A different guy says Jews = bad
Another different guy says Jews = good
We're exposed to all kinds of folks and all kinds of realities all at once, man

>>83668849
Refusing to understand simple explanation/example and distorting reality beyond recognition is not called rationalizing something it's called being a fucking schizo.

>>83668849
Based crypto-Nietzschean master moralist LARPing as christfag

>>83668999
yes well that is how its always going to be unless we become a hivemind or magically unite under one ideology

>>83669012
>magically unite under one ideology
Oddly enough, mine is the only correct ideology :)

>>83668849
being evil is a moral concept, not an objective fact. if a religion says something is evil then this is also based on the moral values of the very same religion.

>>83669020
sorry anon but i am not becoming christian, also what do you plan to do about people with psychological conditions that impede them from understanding or experiencing right and wrong

>>83668849
When reading philosophy, if something sounds retarded, it is. Don't worry if you'd lose an argument, just go with your gut and don't waste your time with nonsense.

>>83669028
So you have no problem if I grab your head banging it against your screen until you die ? Would you say it was a good thing ?

>>83668849
Kill yourself, christcuck. Go worship your kike on a cross someplace else lul

>>83669032
Not a Christian, more of a Buddhist desu
>psychological conditions that impede them from understanding or experiencing right and wrong
I come from a Muslim background, anon
One thing I've learned is that, past a certain threshold of mental capacity, you're no longer beholden to ideas of morality

What I'm saying is, if you're retarded, you are God's special boy and whatever it is you do, you won't be punished for it

>>83669080
nta but buddhism is even worse than christianity

>>83669082
>Buddhism is worse
Literally what the fuck are you on about, mate?

>>83669088
Buddhism is an inferior religion to Christianity

>>83669093
Now I know you're just trying to ragebait me
By what standard, anon?

>>83668849
Believing in God does not help rationalizing good and evil. God exists in higher realms and sees things that we cannot. So using knowledge we don't have to separate good from evil.
Believing in god is the acknowledgement of the unknown, so by extension that we cannot rationalize everything.

>>83668966
>it was made up for social/group cohesion
biblical morality was made up to benefit the authors and it condones slavery among other things. It brought a whole lot of dissent from dissidents, much more than cohesion. The bloodiest wars waged in the name of jesus were fought between christians themselves over minute theological disagreements.

>>83669113
Christianity says suffering doesn't matter because when you die you go to heaven
Buddhism says suffering is forever, and the ultimate goal is cosmic suicide, ending the cycle of samsara and reincarnation and embracing true death.

>>83668966
>You don't have to care where it came from but you gotta play by the rules
The rules you have to play by are the laws of the land, not the biblical laws.

>>83669113
How likely they are to produce human flourishing
Buddhists believe life is suffering, but you can't just kill yourself because you'll get reincarnated, so you have to achieve "nirvana." Nirvana is literally nonexistence - when asked what it was, the Buddha blew out a flame. So the whole point is to stop existing, to permanently die. You can understand how a people who want to cease existing might not be terribly invested in contributing to human happiness in this realm.
You can see this in the behavior of their holiest people. Buddhist monks basically spend all day every day torturing themselves. They might stay awake for days on end, constantly meditating and hitting themselves with sticks when they fall asleep. They outright reject pleasure. How does this help anyone? How does this make the world better?

>>83669143
Unfortunately for you, religion and culture had a hand in shaping the laws of the land
If we go fully by civil, "natural" law surprise surprise there's nothing civil nor natural about it

>>83668999
>our standards of morality, of what's good/bad depends on each individual person and their own upbringing
That's true for the bible in itself and its multiple authors. That's why the book is filled with dubiousness and thousands of different sects have emerged, each one claiming to have figured out what true christianity is supposed to look like.

>>83669154
>religion had a hand in shaping the laws of the land
And many times, it was for the worse. Religion was used before to justify slavery, war and genocide. It still is today.
Our current laws exist rather in opposition of biblical morality, not in agreement with it.

>>83669154
>there's nothing civil nor natural about it
And there's nothing civil or natural about biblical laws either, they're even worse tham our secular laws.
Either way you gonna have to choose your favourite flavor of made up morality, but you don't have to follow biblical morality anymore, you do have to follow the secular laws though.

>>83668849
>Magic book of the pole Jew contains all the morality you'll ever need

>contains no philosophy
>contains wanton violence, genocide, executions over trivial matters, random brutality, human sacrifice
>says Yahweh is mad and has demands, gives no reason for them. "Just obey"
>threats of torture for noncompliance, terrorism

Reading that garbage puts you in a position of being LESS able to identify evil.
The "best" person you think exists sends people into a magic volcano to be burned alive over and over again for minor infractions of his dubious rules.

>>83669309
The book of proverbs is quite philosophical. Do you believe there is a God, if you don't believe in him can you please rationalise evil for me? I mean, explain that something is objectively, universally evil, and that evil is more than just a feeling.
People will not be sent to Hell for "minor infraction of his dubious rules". We have all fallen short of God's glory. We send ourselves to Hell by not believing in Jesus, loving Jesus, and being baptised. Sins all of our mistakes have already been paid for, we just have to have faith in Christ and follow his commandments, and we will spend eternal life with the father. Seems unfair right? Well, it is. God loved us so much that he gave us his son to die so we can achieve eternal life. It's unfair that us sinful humans could even have a chance of eternal life, but the sacrifice was already made for all of us. It's unfair that such a righteous person like Christ who had never sinned would die such a death for us. But it happened anyway. This is why our only salvation is through Christ

>>83669435
yknow most shills get paid for what they do

>>83669487
I don't need to be paid. The knowledge of God should be spread

>>83669498
I mean
knowledge implies that it's true

>>83669505
Do you not believe God is real?

>>83669509
I can tell you with certainty that the God of the Bible does not exist

>>83668860
>Nothing is ever truly evil desu
midwit nonsense, I could do some truly evil things to you you fucking nigger

>>83668931
no one cares theamazingathiest tier retard

>>83669515
Well what makes you say that?

>>83669528
The description of God in the Bible is internally inconsistent, so it can't be true

>>83669435
>The book of proverbs is quite philosophical
No. They're proverbs. "A short pithy saying stating a general truth or piece of advice" That's why they named it "Proverbs".

>Do you believe there is a God
No.

>can you please rationalize evil for me?
Doesn't it just mean immoral and/or cruel? People can do and be that even without the approval/disapproval of magic Jews.

>We have all fallen short of God's glory
I would say that "falling short" is a minor infraction.

>We send ourselves to Hell by not believing in Jesus
Extremely minor infraction. Fuck, 2/3 of planet Earth doesn't even know who he is.

>God loved us so much that he gave us his son to die
Why? Why bother? If you're an unstoppable giant wizard, just make your son invincible and give him a laser beam that turns shit into candy.
If he really loves me, then make Earth an awesome place and stop giving children leukemia and parkinsons.

>Humans are rotten undeserving shit on the bottom of Yahweh's mighty heel. Be grateful he lets you exist, you wretched ghoul.
Anti-human Jewish self-loathing. I strongly disagree with this part of Abrahamic faiths. We are by far the most interesting creature on Earth. If our creator is disappointed in us, fuck him. Go back to making dinosaurs or more beetles. If all he has for us is threats and insults, then he's a real shit cunt, I don't need his "love". His "love" is the affection a master has for his slave.

>>83669546
YES. YES. THIS. FUCK CHRISTIANS. FUCK JEWS. I WILL NEVER BE A SLAVE TO THE SLAVES.

>>83668860
>Nothing is ever truly evil desu
you need to hang desu

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>>83669546

Proverbs are short sayings, that doesn't mean they can't be philosophical.

People can do cruel things without believing in God. The question is what makes cruelty wrong rather than simply disliked.

Christianity isn't about God punishing people for not knowing every little thing. It's about whether someone wants communion with God or not. Do you think a just God would damn people who never could have heard about him?

A world without vulnerability would be more of a padded simulation than a world with love. Christianity does not say that child cancer is good or deserved or part of God's pleasure. The world is broken and God enters into suffering rather than staying distant.

Humans are fallen, not worthless. Humans are made in the image of God. God himself became human, this alone destroys the "slave-master" dynamic. God became human so that we might be saved, this isn't contempt for humanity but the strongest possible love.

You demand that God be morally good. God is goodness itself. God is not measured by morality, but morality is grounded in God. You condemn God for allowing suffering. You speak as if objective moral standards exist, but this outrage only makes sense if goodness exists, and not just a preference. It's not clear how objective and universal moral obligations can be grounded without something beyond human preference, and Christianity claims God provides that grounding.

Here you're making a caricature of Christianity. I do believe your anger comes from a large misunderstanding. I will keep you in my prayers, so that you might have a better understanding of our lord and God Jesus Christ.

>>83669687
>The question is what makes cruelty wrong rather than simply disliked
"Wrong" can mean immoral and unjust. Are you hung up on the definition of evil? I don't really get what you're asking. The Greeks understood evil and they had like 40-50 gods. Most cultures have good and bad, even those without the pole-Jew.

>God did all these things trust me. It's in the book.
Yeah. Nah. Not to trivialize what you typed out, but I've had this exact exchange probably 50 times since I turned 13 years old.

The contents of the magic book don't mean anything to me and these claims you have that "Oh, god loves us sooooo much" is something in your head that someone put in there decades ago and that's fine, just know I don't have the same thing in my head so I won't ever see eye to eye with that. To me it's the rambling of a schizoid mind, no offense.

Also, if prayers did anything, every Christian would be rich and healthy. Just saying.

>>83669750
I'm not confused about the definition, but I'm asking what makes something immoral or evil rather than socially frowned upon or disliked. Saying that cultures can recognise good and bad doesn't address whether these objective truths or simply customary.

The Greeks did believe in good and evil but they grounded it in objective realities such as the Logos, not just preference. That is still metaphysical grounding.

Prayer isn't meant to be a vending machine for comfort or wealth. Christianity teaches suffering, not guaranteed comfort. Jesus doesn't say believe in me and life will be easy.

>>83669580
>you need to hang desu
You mean be hung. Like my evil penis

>>83668931
A universal system of ethics necessarily implies a universal arbiter.

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Jesus Christ + God are THE MOST potent forms of evil in the human imagination. So in some sense, you are right, OP. Christians and the mythological figures in Christian mythos are the bottom of the barrel evil; my "south pole" for what is truly evil about this world. As long as I know I am ideologically opposed to Jewish ghost stories and their cultists, I am on the right path. Thank you, Christians, for being so irredeemably lost in life that not even your own supposed god steps in to defend you. If God is real, it's likely he hates you lot -- which is on brand for that cunt.

>>83670627
Read Spinoza, Paine, Kierkegaard, and Nietzsche before shitposting about christian existentialism.

>>83670818
>Nietzsche
not him, but am I going to suffer much from reading him, considering that I cringe a lot when hearing how pompous Juden Peterstein is?

>>83668860
whatever fucks up your life, like harming others, is evil

>>83670847
Nietzsche is one of the most widely misunderstood philosophers of all time, so I listed this in a reading order. Being a superman isn't about might making right, it's about truly connecting with God, not through religion, but naturally.

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>>83670896
>whatever causes evil things, is evil
>>83670900
o-okay, but basically I meant to ask if his style is noticeably over the top
I think I should probably just read a random chapter myself and see if I can stand it

>>83670923
>I meant to ask if his style is noticeably over the top
Yeah, you don't want to start with Thus Spake Zarathustra or The Antichrist *facepalm*
Which is why I say to start with Spinoza and Paine

>>83668849
>You cannot rationalise that something is evil if you do not believe in God.
Why not? I'm fairly certain that evil is simply undeserved power. For example, if your boss demands you have gay sex with him or you're fired, he's likely not worthy of his position over you.

Name one thing that's evil and doesn't involve undeserved power.

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>>83670940
okay, thank you for the recommendations
I don't really want to get into philosophy as anything other than chair hobby, so I consider the enjoyment important

>>83670953
>Name one thing that's evil and doesn't involve undeserved power.
my uneployed ass wishing to get sexually abused by a chad millionaire minotaur

>>83670964
I think of philosophy as very important memes

>>83670973
>my uneployed ass wishing to get sexually abused by a chad millionaire minotaur
I'm under the impression that you do not have power over this desire. Neither do you actually have the power to abuse yourself in that way, since minotaurs aren't real. The main issue here is that this desire has undeserved power over you. You are only evil because of the vice the degree you have the power to rid yourself of it. If wanting to be abused by cow men causes you psychological harm, then you should take care of yourself and get a therapist, or else maybe you don't deserve unrestricted power over that facit of your life and need a person to help you take care of yourself better so you don't continually self-harm.

Or maybe nobody else is deserving of power over your life, so they're all evil for possessing it, were you to let them help you not self-harm.

Either way, there is definitely undeserved power going on here.