Lately I've been rethinking the whole tradlife ideal and whether old fashioned family structures were ever as good as people claim. After the Sarah Stock and Elijah Schaffer situation, it hit me that traditionalism and the nuclear family are more of a nostalgic fantasy than a universally workable way of life. Marriage wasnt historically some perfect institution rooted in eternal values it functioned because of the material and social conditions of the past. Communities treated marriage as mandatory and divorce as a moral disaster, so people stayed together out of pressure, fear of ostracism, and lack of alternatives. That stability wasnt proof of deeper commitment; it was the result of limited freedom. When you talk to people who work in eldercare, it's common to hear stories of widows admitting they hated their marriages or even contemplated extreme actions just to escape. Many people simply endured relationships because society didn't allow any other path, and because they didn't know life could look different. Im not saying marriage shouldnt exist. If you find someone genuinely compatible, great. But for most people, the odds arent as romantic as traditionalists claim and modern divorce rates show this. People today arent separating because of liberalism or moral decay. The same desires, frustrations, and incompatibilities existed in the past; they were just suppressed. The idyllic image of a husband providing while a wife cooks and raises kids wasn't a moral golden age it was people confined by their environment. Given real freedom, many wouldnt have chosen those roles. Even now, there's an entire subreddit of parents who regret having kids, and it's bigger than the one for parents who love parenting. When people advocate for bringing back traditional families, they forget the economic and social conditions that made that model possible. You can't revive a lifestyle without reviving the world that supported it.
>>83838352what a load of bullshit, of course it was tailored to the conditions of the past same like people are now scrambling to find a fit for conditions of today. and for each grandma in eldercare that hated her marriage there are hundreds of cat ladies, incels and dead trannies that testify that whatever you shill for doesn't work
>>83838485I'm not shilling for anything. My whole point is that I think this idealisation of marriage is some bs because people think its the peak human experience when in reality it didn't actually work and people were cheating on each other, raping their kids and beating their wives behind closed doors. I'm not offering an alternative, just an observation.
>>83838657>it didn't actually workof course it did work and there are millions of descendants to prove it.nobody cares about individual experiences of some snowflake, society is built for collective survival not to pander and entertain spoilt manchildren and whores. it just that modern generations forgot how though life actually is, hopefully a world war is coming to teach them a lesson
>>83838719My point is though, to get to a point where traditional families are enforced requires huge structural change and sacrificing a lot of the freedoms and rights we already have. The nuclear family is a pipe dream unless you live in some fuckinh third world country.
>>83838766if you're talking about demographic trends, yes they can't be reversed without reversing women's rights, which is impossible.as for freedoms, your freedoms and rights will be sacrificed alright when collapsing demographics make your place into an african shithole in 50 years.people larping as trads are the last to blame for anything.
>>83838352Okay, but like what the fuck is this post? You prompted ChatGPT to write a commentary on the subject?
>>83838352You guys don't know what trad is. Trad is no women rights. Women are property. That's the only way this works. If she cheats she doesn't have daddy government to save her and you're free to execute her. Also society becomes much better so there's literally no negatives to making women property and devoid of human rights.
The trad model was infinitely better than the atomized hell and rentseeking commonplace today. Half of the laws in existence exist solely to prevent people from returning to a better way of life. They constantly turn the pressure up because every day the superiority of the old ways has become impossible to ignore.Can't even so much as brap without three taxmen sticking out their hands, ten beurocrats measuring it, and an army of protesters crying for your blood.Dont even need to revive the economic and social conditions to get it back. Just take the bloated beast of life support and nature will self correct within a single generation.
>>83838806No, I wrote it myself but told chatgpt to proof read it and shorten it because it went over the character limit and I was too lazy to shorten it myself.
>>83838802So you admit its nothing more than a pipe dream that even trad types can't keep up with. Even among trad christain circles 1 in 4 marriages end in divorce. We need a plan b.
>>83838919Christians can't divorce. You might as well say one is four immortals die, it's nonsensical. They were neither trad nor Christian, just your typical modern couple.
>>83838852My nigga, you're looking at the past through a filter. The "trad model" wasn't some golden age it just looked stable because people literally couldn't leave. No fault divorce didn't exist, women couldn't support themselves, communities punished anyone who stepped outside the script. Stability by force isn't the same as stability by choice.And even if you did wipe the "bloated beast" overnight, nature wouldn't magically snap back into 1950s suburbia. The old model only worked because of super specific economic conditions: cheap housing, stable wages, one income households being viable, strong local communities, low mobility, etc. None of that exists now, and you can't just will it into existence by removing regulations.Plus, a lot of what you're calling "atomization" is just what happens when people actually have options. When folks are free to leave bad marriages or avoid having kids they don't want, yeah things look messier. But messier isn't automatically worse; it's just more honest.If you want stronger families and communities, you need economic and social scaffolding not nostalgia and deregulation. Otherwise you're just romanticizing a system that only seemed perfect because half the population had no exit.
>>83838951No true scotsman much? Why not just admit thay the whole traditional model doesn't work as was being supported by coercive social pressure.
>>83838352Trad is only having a resurgence because the economy is so shit the only way women can imagine financial stability is through how their grandparents lived.
>>83838907That is very grim.
>>83838995Literally the opposite. Can you afford a 3 bedroom detached house and support a family of 4 on a single income like your grand parents did? No, nowadays both parents could be working and you'd barely be able to afford rent.>>83839032Put a sock in it blud.
>>83838919>We need a plan b.so where's your plan b brainiac? oh there isn't any, color me surprised.you're just one of the horde of incompetent political aspirants that know how to criticize everything and everyone trying to create something, while having zero idea or solutions themselves. we live in the real world bubba, not some imaginary wonderland where things are perfect
>>83838957Suburbia bullshit is what we already have, and it leads to exactly what we currently have. It's the same thing. I mean trad, not some meme bullshit 1990 sitcom picture you're thinking of. Read the stories from the era, there was stability and plenty of options and freedom. Arguably far more than we currently have. Continue the farm, join the military, study medicine or law, go a few hundred miles west and it's a fresh start, apprenticeships, seaships. The alternatives sucked compared to working the farm. You were free because there's always a safety net, even if it's living in a sod house on the frontier.Women have shown they can't have rights. Look at how heavily the scales are tipped in their favor in literally every single aspect of life, and they still cry about inequality and how it's such a struggle. They were genuinely happier before they had to larp as dickless men being propped up by a thousand different faceless men. They're objectively doing worse on every metric despite the out of control financial and social costs it takes holding them up to play pretend. We know what works with zero downsides, and that was having women propped up, supported, and cared for by one person who actually loves her. I'm not even advocating for nuking women's rights. Just rolling them back to what is was at the turn of the 20th century in America.Agrarianism has the answers. Anything else is bullshit.
>>83839328To be fair, you have no ideas either. So I'm not sure why you're even talking.
>>83838352Any woman claiming to be trad is a feminist jezebel in disguise. Trad can only succeed under a true patriarchy and not one trad wife LARPer actually wants to submit to her husband. I should know, I have an older brother married to one and she wears the pants, ignores him, gets fat. He courted her the old fashion way but he chose wrong and now his life is a humiliation ritual. If you're not Chad, capable of bagging Stacy, the same goes for you.
>>83839399i'm not the one criticizing people that try to form a family based on some kind of ideals, retard
>>83839328I have a plan b, c, d, e, f etc. I don't think we need to be bogged down to a single form. I think we should let people pick the arrangement that best suits them. That could be nuclear, extended, cohabitstion etc fuck maybe even an open relationship or polygamy (although those are even less successful). I think the answer is fluid and depends on the circumstances and what works for people.
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>>83839387>read the stories from this eraOk, they're even worse> "The Diary of a Country Parson by James Woodforde, Shows daily marital frustrations, boredom, affairs, and hidden conflicts.> "The Diary of Samuel Pepys" Pepys openly cheats on his wife, records fights, resentment, tension, jealousy, violence, etc.> "The Lisle Letters" A huge collection of Tudor era family letters showing marital coercion, abuse, forced marriages, and domestic misery.> "The Letters of Abigail and John Adams"Theor letters show how rare happy marriages actually were were.These are real letters and primary sources written by real people living in those times from the 16th to 18th century showing how bad things were.
>>83840371Yes nigga, your black ass needs some mental exercise.
>>83840430If everything is so perfect and wonderful now with modern cheating, fights, coercion, abuse, etc. then what are you even whining about? The past was infinitely better than now, that's obvious to everyone but you. You just proved it with your cherry picked letters. You completely ignored all the stories from the era to find like three sensationalized and melodramatic examples taking place over a one hundred year timespan that pale in comparison to what happens in a single city over a Wednesday afternoon in contemporary society.If you're upset that people want to live a better life then go prove them wrong. Go rape somebody, embezzle funds, foreclose on someone's house, kill people. Engage in usury. Raise taxes, and flood the country with millions of foreigners from shithole countries to disrupt the daily lives of natives. Maybe even do some terrorism with biological weapons. Surely you have no end to modern wonders you can show us that your way is superior to the happy peaceful pastoral life with strong community ties and social cohesion of before, right?
What are you trad about?
>>83842452You believe in balancing a budget? Have you tried to use a calculator to use 32 trillion divided by minimum wage 7.25. Every hour is worth a product of 7.25, please use this on your caclulator it's honestly coming up with numbers so high that it's squared. It's consecutive decades into centuries. The federal minimum wage is pegged at the amount of hour units to make an hour wage. A hour is 7.25. Plug into a calculator how many man hours it takes to pay down 32 trillion. They're going to start squaring it because it's impossible in mutltiple life times.
>>83838352For the most if human history you need a community to survive and have kids, so people were forced to make their marriage work. Now it's way easier to survive we have a ton of luxuries so people are less likely to form strong bonds.
>>83838657Your argument is flawed because you are lying about the purpose of traditionalism. You are claiming that it was supposed to be this flawless perfect thing with no problems which impossible to do, then claiming that this lie disproves all the benefits of traditionalism.You're a faggot.
