Every single one of you who decided to shit out a kid without asking them first committed the ultimate act of violence, and they should be able to drag your sorry asses into court the second they're old enough to realize what a raw deal you handed them. Existence is a lacerating wound from the moment you force them into this hellhole of pain, boredom, sickness, and guaranteed death. You rolled the dice on their behalf, bet that "life would be worth it" and lost, and now they're stuck paying the tab in blood and tears while you pat yourselves on the back for "continuing the family line". The first right any child should have is the right to never have been born. The second is the right to sue the people who violated the first. Let them hit you with damages for every panic attack, every night they wished they didn't exist, every second of pointless suffering you inflicted because you were lonely, horny, or wanted a retirement plan with legs. Maybe then you'd think twice before treating another human being like a toy, a status symbol, or an emotional support animal. Until that day, you're all just torturers who get parades thrown for you.
The problem is most people are pretty chill with existence unlike us.
It's natural. Fucking and shitting out babies is natural. Inherent properties of our species.
>>83849897we are just mentally ill while normies having fun.
>>83849832There is nothing wrong with you not wanting kids, this is a process of soft-eugenics. You know you're not meant to exist since your bloodline is made up of hundreds if not thousands of years worth of maladapted -perhaps even malicious- genes and you just want to disappear, which is totally fine.
>>83849832Shalom, Rabi. How's your day going?
>>83849897>>83849904fuck off, falseflagging imbeciles. you're obvious and stand out.
>>83849904pretty much yeah. for the most part, whether or not a life is good or bad is usually a matter of someone's internal mental state.obviously that's not universal or anything but i've certainly had periods of my life where I felt pretty content with it despite nothing being different.>>83849915it's a valid perspective but it's probably the most ridiculous thing to try and convince others of
>>83849832>have child>child is extrajudicially abused by glowniggers in their neighborhood and schools>being a parent is now extra leverage held over you so you have to let niggers have sex with your wife or whatever>this on top of economic insecurity and the loss of time and resources that could otherwise be used for things like pursuing higher educationHaving kids is a nice idea. Reality, less so
>>83849928I don't have to convince anybody, those who are unfit have already convinced themselves, hell I'd say they were born convinced. This is just a posthumous analysis at best. All dyke matrilines are going the way of the dodo and no one can do anything to stop them because it's their own desire and it's their path of least resistance.
>>83849942No I meant OP's perspective is valid but evolutionarily futile for obvious reasons. So why expend energy broadcasting it?
>>83849949Shooting the shit, passing the time. It's a controversial topic so it will generate engagement. Doesn't really matter either way.
>wanted a retirement plan with legs. Okay, I really laughed at that one. But I agree with you, OP. It's why I won't have children despite being in a relationship. It is very selfish and there's been no actual argument that has went against it. We will always suffer and be fearful of death.
>>83849915>self-conscious and empathetic people disappear>left with hordes of monkey-men with no inhibitions and a raging desire to take and destroyThat'll be a great world. I hope your genetic superstar children are ready for battle.
>>83849973>self-conscious and empathetic people disappearThat's a very dishonest take, but I don't even care about the morality of it, it's just the reality of evolution, in which there is only one constant, the ability and even more importantly the DESIRE to remain.
>>83849832If you don't have kids I hope you aren't planning on drawing a state pension, because that's INCREDIBLY selfish. We NEED young future generations to take care of the old and you OWE it to society to do your part having at least two children.
>>83849973So antinatalism doesn't actually end suffering it just ensures it will persist unabated until the Sun consumes the world. Great plan, faggot.
>>83849997wrong, brainwashed retarded cuck. Evolution has no goal and no preferences. You do. You're trying to impose your personal agenda and ideas on the adaptation and evolution of species. You fail to understand that evolution has no agenda and it ends with the given species. Homo sapiens sapiens might just fucking go extinct and that's it. Doesn't even cross your retarded mind, you self-absorded npc cuck.Mere existence of a marvelous brainlet such as yourself is evidence enough to conclude that evolution has no goals and no agenda.
>>83850003>you OWE it to society
>>83850003commit sudoku. right fucking nao. who do you think you're fooling with your 72iq propaganda you fucking glownigger?there are over 8b people on this fucking rock and the rich only ever get richer and richet. There are plenty of resources, human included, to go around to pay for the pensions of the millenials.Now kindly commit sudoku, you evil piece of shit, who is trying to make this world and the life so much worse.
>>83850018You're repeating my words verbatim and throwing them back at me to argue. I specifically said that evolution doesn't have any real preferences, except for the ability to maintain genetic continuity, everything else on top of that is an auxiliary trait at best.Those who have an inherent desire to reproduce, will reproduce and if you want to bypass that reality, you have to impose an order on the "selector" which they will then resist and eventually dismantle. You can't argue your way around that, it's a brick wall.
>>83849915Antinatalists are highly morally-sensitive people who could be far better parents than pro-natalists.
>>83850039> I specifically said that evolution doesn't have any real preferences, except for the ability to maintain genetic continuitydoes not.
>>83850039species have evolved into extinction. willingly. a huge amount of "endangered" species choose not to procreate and to go extinct: pandas, bonobo, and so forth. available data proves you wrong.same goes for human beings. at least smartest humans in the 21st century. and there is no evidence that all humans currently living on this rock are of the same species. neanderthals weren't homo sapiens, for example. why wouldn't homo sapiens sapiens go extinct? because you don't want them to? kek.
>>83850040You may as well be right, but does it actually matter if they ontologically opposed to the idea of reproduction? Are they actually morally sensitive or are they just choosing the path of least resistance and romanticizing their decision? Is it possible that they care about their own discomfort which is guaranteed by having children or are they actually committed to their morals? You'll never know. The morality of it can be argued forever, it is open to interpretation and people will always present their own group and ideas as morally superior, which is why I prefer to just look at the logistic reality of it and that reality clearly displays that people who don't feel like having kids will not have kids. It's that simple.
>>83850068>species have evolved into extinction.Fisherian runaway, I know. How is that an argument though, when it clearly reinforces my point? They weren't fit to live, their females developed faulty selective traits that led to their demise. Evolution is not a single-species concept.
>>83850071I like her. I can make her want to settle down.
>>83850071>actually morally sensitive>actually committed to their morals>The morality of it can be argued forever>ideas as morally superiormorals are for brainlets, anon. If you're a cucked npc fag, then of course you care about bullshit concepts such as>moralitybecause always the normie sheep are in the dire need of a shepherd.No, morality has fuck all to do with having children.>Is it possible that they care about their own discomfortyeah, mostly. for retards. As a misanthrope I have all sorts of reasons.TL;DR: Morality is for normie plebs with double digit iq.
>>83850083evolution is not natural selection you brainlet. typical mistake.
>>83850090>>83850101Pretty sad that I can't tell whether you're baiting or you're being obtuse but once again, I will re-iterate, as clearly as I can:Evolution has no preferences, you either make it to the next generation or you don't. Those who don't, for whatever reason, cease to exist forever, whether it's a species, a subspecies or a group with unique traits. It's that simple, it's not actually a real, unseen force that drives anything, it's a measure that we use to observe the results of biomass making attempts to adapt to their environment and they either make it through or not.
>>83850204>it's a measure that we use to observePositivists are the niggers of epistemology
>>83849832>>83849897That and the meta awareness that everything you partake in and enjoy requires people to make it or be a part of it and/or create it. It's one thing to punch your own ticket, I get that, you're done and don't want this? Fine. But to shake your fist and those that have them and the majority of them that go one to live a life and keep things going seems narcissistic as fuck.
>>83850214I don't know what to tell you, if magical thinking makes you feel any better then go for it.
>>83849832woha, thanks roasty because of your sign i will not have a kid and will die alone with a cat.
>>83850003I wouldn't go that far but I argue the befits out weigh the cost -if- you wanted them. People like OP were likely the age of broken condoms and drunk parties being born by unwanted parents that just settle with how events played out as opposed to what has become the norm where most opt in and commit to kids. That has it's own mess of issues however, such as the fact half of men and women just don't even date anymore because turns out that whole 1/2 of the population having oops babies was having positive downstream effects. At it's core though I think it's retarded to tell other people how to live when it comes to shit like this. You want kids? Have them. You don't want kids? Don't then. But can both sides stop this sour grapes like posturing?
Objectively correct.This reality is some kind of suffering loosh prison and it is the height of atrocity propagating it (which is why the demiurge made cooming pleasurable) and forcing an innocent consciousness to exist in this shithole.
Life is a gift and it's beautiful. It's not really my business that you don't like the gift, you can always just throw it away.
>>83850314what about all the suffering and unfairness?
>>83850314forcing life without consent is literally defined as rape. this existence is constant rape for those who are not turning their brain off
>>83849832Lmao you just not apt for reproduction, your bloodline will end with you
>>83850324>sufferingNo big deal, and suffering is also beautiful in its own way.>unfairness?Matter of perspective, and it probably skews in your favor sometimes too.>>83850343>forcing life without consent is literally defined as rapeNo it isn't, rape is sexual violence. You can describe it whatever way you like, but I don't have to accept your mental Tumblr definitions. When everything is rape, nothing is rape.>this existence is constant rape for those who are not turning their brain offThen turn your brain off, Einstein. Why are you compounding your purported suffering?
>>83850468>hylic detectedyou material constructs will defend the matrix as usual. you have no existence outside this simulation and can't conceptualize anything further
>>83850482>hylic detectedI don't know what that is, and don't bother educating me because I'll forget.>you material constructs will defend the matrix as usualI'm playing the cards I've been dealt and I'm not hating it.>you have no existence outside this simulationI don't know whether I do or not, but I suspect not.> can't conceptualize anything furtherI can conceptualize it, I just don't really believe in it.
>>83850490yes you are an npc. you indicated it already few posts earlier
>>83850468>When everything is rape, nothing is rape.Congratulations, you have discovered the core tenet of feminist ideology, standpoint theory. Words can be redefined at will depending on how they make you feel. They don't even hide it, their arguments are not meant to reach a conclusion or follow a train of thought, they're just meant to wear you down.
>>83850498I can't be an NPC because there is no "player" to speak of.>>83850499>you have discovered the core tenet of feminist ideologyUsing words improperly has nothing to do with feminism, and I don't know why you're digressing that much, it has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Take your gay incel grievances to a different thread.
>>83849832Okay, I still don't care.I'm glad I have 2 kids and glad I knocked up my wife again.I hope to have at least 4.If I live long enough I will enjoy my kids screwing over and out-competing the 20yos of today who refused to have kids.I'm jesting. Most of the "antinatalists" do in fact end up having kids. Just fewer.
>>83850522NPC means that you're a braindead waste of biomaterial. And it is hard to disagree, because you just keep posting irrelevant retarded bullshit time and again. Like the following:>>83850560what is the point of this vomit? Keep your stupidity to yourself, dumb animal.
>>83850583>NPC means that you're a braindead waste of biomaterialI can't be braindead and still be posting, it's just not what braindead means. There's clearly some rudimentary level of brain activity going on. You can hate me but I don't know what you get out of straight up lying about what I'm like.>because you just keep posting irrelevant retarded bullshit time and again. Like the following:That's not me.>Keep your stupidity to yourself, dumb animal.Extremely ironic of you to say this, Sasuke.
>>83850583>what is the point of this vomit?Right back at you. What is the point of your vomit?Your bullshit morality is no different than Westboro Baptist Church. A retard spewing his abnormal bullshit as if it's something useful or wise.You should rope. The moral progress of civilization would be well served if we don't have to wait for your natural death and you rope now.
>>83849832Why is there even a cult about not having kids? Mossad Is literally taking control of people's brains
I genuinely wish I hadn't been born. My mom only liked the "baby phase" and my dad hates me. I wake up every day crying and hate my fucking life
>>83850204Don't bother responding to people who don't capitalise the first letter of sentences Anon. It's a telling sign of ragebait troonery. Just ignore and do something productive.
>>83850598you don't belong. which is why you don't understand. which is why you don't belong. which is why you spout stupid shit.but saying that you're a npc, instead of going meta like: which is short for a retarded double digit iq normie who doesn't belong and shouldn't ever enter a deeper conversation regardless of the merit of the ideas, because you have nothing of value to contribute to the analysis and evaluation of these ideas anyway... is easier. Which is why you're an NPC.
>>83850625>shouldn't ever enter a deeper conversationYou can't tell me what conversation to enter or not enter, uppity little faggot.>because you have nothing of value to contribute to the analysis and evaluation of these ideas anywayThe value I can contribute is infinite. You're just upset because you can't handle being disagreed with.You have a few emotional positions and you treat them as the gospel. They are not the gospel, they're your young adult angst.
>>83850603>What is the point of your vomit?To indicate to you that your primitive ass bullshit is not appreciated because everybody and their cat thought of all of that when they were like 10 years old at most. If you enter a more complex conversation, a debate, on a public square, a forum, at least have the decency to not waste everybody's time with a primitive non take, you imbecilic normie faggot.>moralitymorality is irrelevant. it only ever applies to the double digit iq retards who are so useless and stupid, that they can not function on their own.None of it applies to an adult, intelligent male of the 21st century. And don't you dare project your personal inferiority onto those who are superb.>You should rope.this a rabid animal cope and qq >tears running down your fat retarded normie faceyou fear intelligence and those who are smarter because you can't understand. much like cavemen could not explain blizzard, thunder, and lightning, and had to resort to making up mythical entities in control of those physical events, just to make feel safer and better about themselves.So are you hiding behind primitive outdated in the 21st century bullshit such as religion, belief, morals, philosophy to make yourself feel better about being an irrelevant animal.TL;DR: An animal like you has fuck all to do with progress and you should shut up and lurk whenever your superiors are posting. Stupid ass slave.
>>83849832>Every single one of you who decided to shit out a kid without asking them first committed the ultimate act of violenceAnd there's my unselfish reason.
You animals... don't understand...I was denied what I'm owed... broken... I was born into this world full of hate...My utmost intellect... can overpower any of you... crush you like an insect...Because you can't... understand my darkness...I will have to wage a war... against life itself
>>83849832Wages have stagnated since the 70s, while housing costs have gone up 5x, education costs are like 10x and medicine is also expensive as fuck. Every decade has been worse and worse, that's why no one except boomers owns anything.All the women are pretentious whores. And you should want a teenage virgin ONLY, unless you're a stupid person. You can't marry a teenage virgin unless you are Amish. If a woman can't marry a guy before she's 20, she's garbage.Half the kids aren't even white, and everyone knows what "white privilege" and "male privilege" is now. The dickheads who fucked up america are the same people who want you to start a family now. Only IDIOTS and RICH PEOPLE are having kids. The idiots are selfless and slavish drones whos kids will have it even worse than Gen X, millenials, Gen Z Gen whatever. It only gets worse and you are all fucking stupid mutilated poisoned retard slaves.
>>83850644>You can't tell me what conversation to enter or not enter, uppity little faggot.hence calling you a retarded npc instead, you cum guzzling mongoloid.>The value I can contribute is infinite.delusional retard>You're just upset because you can't handle being disagreed with.I don't care about opinions or disagreement. I care about the facts, data, objectivity and coming to the truthful and realistic conclusions. Also, i'm nta. I wasn't even arguing with you, just pointing out that you don't belong on here, because you can't comprehend your normie takes being irrelevant, because disproven a long ago by anybody with 3 or more brain cells.>You have a few emotional positions and you treat them as the gospel.nice projection>They are not the gospel, they're your young adult angst.you mistake the lack of care and being fed up with human retardation, misanthropy too, for being invested emotionally. typical normie animal.TL;DR: I'm not emotional because of ideas or truth or arriving at it. I'm angry at normies not even being able to comprehend that they don't belong. Because I'm fed up with humanity and the profound intellectual retardation it presents as a virtue.>>83850672good bait, anon
>>83850522>Using words improperly has nothing to do with feminismtrying so hard it's not even funny
>>83850683Aside from the delusions of intellect and power that is literally how I feel. I get people that kill themselves. The only reason I don't is because there is nothing after
>>83850705>hence calling you a retarded npc insteadIt's just an admission that you can't engage with the substance of what I'm posting, and that you're getting hysterical. If my opinion was entirely irrelevant, you wouldn't lash at it like an insulted little girl. You would ignore them. You're obviously provoked by them.>I care about the facts, data, objectivity and coming to the truthful and realistic conclusionsYou want a medal?> I wasn't even arguing with you, just pointing out that you don't belong on hereThank you for your input, I'll consider it.>you can't comprehend your normie takes being irrelevantI can comprehend it just fine, I don't think opinions are valuable on their own.>because disproven a long ago by anybody with 3 or more brain cells.Nothing I said has been disproven and most of it is not even disprovable to begin with. I have posted nothing untruthful, logically unsound, or in any way controversial.>you mistake the lack of care and being fed up with human retardation, misanthropy too, for being invested emotionallyI don't, you're both obviously very emotional.>I'm not emotional because of ideas or truth or arriving at itI'M NOT EMOTIONAL, I'M NOT EMOTIONAL, AAAAAAAAA I'M NOT FUCKING EMOTIONAL>I'm angry What's anger again? Is it a type of vegetable? Or is it, perhaps, an emotion?>>83850711You don't have to comment if you have nothing to say.
>>83850735>It's just an admission that you can't engage with the substance of what I'm posting, and that you're getting hysterical. If my opinion was entirely irrelevant, you wouldn't lash at it like an insulted little girl. You would ignore them. You're obviously provoked by them.whatever.>not even disprovabledelusion
Ahahaha... you stupid animals...The chains of morality... they no longer bind me...My power... is limitless...And I will first exercise it...By being rude on /r9k/...Tremble... you fucking insects...Gaze upon the man... who has nothing to lose...
>>83850750Pic rel, lil guptavius
>life is le good despite over 500 years of racism, rape, murder, and atrocities I don't care if you want kids or not but this kind of thinking is just dumb
>>83850760trying too hard, faggot.
>>83850762Precisely anon, life is good because it could've so easily not been.And before you go>b-b-but PALESTINEyou're obviously not posting on /r9k/ from Palestine, so I can't really humor the idea that your life is that awful. Most of you are obviously phoneposter NEETs, and that's easily in the top 50 most comfortable existences I can imagine.>>83850766I'm not trying at all, because you're not engaging with anything I'm saying, you're just trying to attack me personally, which tickles my ego, because the contempt of the contemptible is a beautiful thing to have.
>>83850775>Resorting to fallacies Not an argument. The world is objectively a bad place.
>>83850792>Not an argumentI'm not trying to make an argument, I posted a mix of guesses, obvious truths, and my view of it.>The world is objectively a bad placeIt isn't, because "bad" is a subjective criterion and you can just as easily say that the world is a good place, and it's just as true as saying that it's a bad place. Making overly broad and vague statements like that is pointless for the purpose of making an argument, because the argument immediately crumbles.And as soon as you start taking a more honest and nuanced look at the world than "world bad", the antinatalist positions start unraveling and no longer have rock-solid foundations, and instead boil down to a vibe.
>>83849832take your meds asap, you're spiraling
>>83850792see now? Don't ever bother with a feefee animal.
>>83850832If the things you're saying had any merit, they would be persuasive to me and others.As it is, they either have no merit, or you're a very poor communicator. And the way you're dealing with is anger.
>>83850808Humans murdering and hating each other is not subjective, idiot. It's been that way since the beginning of time. And by reproducing, you're subjecting someone to that.I'm starting to believe antinatalism is the final pill and everything else is just cope. Because arguments against it never make sense.
>muh bloodlines!>50 generations of peasants and laborers must go on!>reproducing is a sign of my genetic fitness in spite of the fact there are 1.5 billion people in Africa and countingEvery thread.Reproducing is nothing, witless illiterate Ugandans do it every day.You toiling so your miserable 90 IQ offspring can toil too is like having a baby in prison who is immediate arrested upon exiting the womb. Fucked from the start, doomed to be someone else's cattle. It's like your whole purpose is to make more toilers so the money-lending class can exploit them.
>>83850843>Humans murdering and hating each other is not subjective, idiotYour view of it as a bad and important thing is subjective.>It's been that way since the beginning of timeI don't know what it's been like since the beginning of time and I try to avoid commenting on things I don't know.>And by reproducing, you're subjecting someone to that.And I'd also be subjecting them to the good things, or alternatively. the spoils and bounty of murdering and hating. But it's not like anyone in this thread has any chances of reproducing so it's all hypothetical anyway.>I'm starting to believe antinatalism is the final pill and everything else is just copeIt's a "final pill" because it's just a vibe that life is not worth living, and thus no one can really get in your head and convince you that it is.>Because arguments against it never make senseThe arguments for it don't make sense either. They hinge on undervaluing everything positive about life and overblowing the importance of the emotional experience.>>83850845I like your class-based analysis more than general emotionality, but I still think you're making the mistake of ignoring all positives and viewing only the negatives, which are not necessarily certain either. If you're well-off, there's really no reason to worry that your children will be toilers. Even if you're not, there's still upward mobility through education, as cucked as it is in capitalism.
>>83850843>I'm starting to believe antinatalism is the final pill and everything else is just copeantinatalism is cope par excellence, it's literally a coping mechanism for completely failing as a human being and then pretending it was all intentional all along
>>83850892based on? pulling it out of your arse? if you're going to make sweeping statements at least provide data to back your bullshit up.It is a choice, you moron.
>>83850898>based on?observation of antinatalists, they're always bitter losers who aren't good at anything
>>83850915oh, so it is your anecdotal bullshit. thought so. thanks for the confimation. Now I know to disregard everything you will say.
>>83850923>oh, so it is your anecdotal bullshit.can you prove it wrong? a very easy way would be to demonstrate that you're not a bitter loser yourself.
>>83850869>Your view of it as a bad Stopped reading right there Apparently murder and hatred is not bad.Holy shit antinatalists literally back you people into a wall
>>83850936define>a loser
>>83850941It's not very intellectually honest to read 1 sentence and ignore the rest.>Apparently murder and hatred is not bad.If hatred is bad, why do you have this much vitriol for me? Why are you being bad?As for murder, I'd say there are some cases where it's fine, though I'm mostly very anti-killing. And notice how I said "and important". For example, the murder of some random American is bad, but it really isn't important to me as someone who doesn't even live on the same continent. It's not going to deprecate my view of the world or my good times.Most violence in the world is like that, you're simply not exposed to most of it.>Holy shit antinatalists literally back you people into a wallI don't know who "you people" are, I represent only myself, and I suspect you have some very wrong ideas about who I am.
>>83850003Most countries with state pensions also have state funded education, maternity leave etc. that those people pay while getting nothing. Tho it is mostly based on income poorfags and their kids will be a drain, while bigger earners will support the system kids or no kids (tho rich people opt out wit tax "optimization" so upper middle class and not-quite-rich get fucked the most).
>>83850942a person who is doing poorly at life in any sense, and is unhappy because of it.
>>83850987picrel. study it. do your own research. a lot of it. ignorant faggot.
>>83851005I will absolutely not be studying AI summaries of celeb lives, kek.you asked me to define it, I defined it. do you really have no comeback? I suspect that you're a loser now.
>>83851013>has a number of links with descriptions>no, not like that>encouraged to do their own further research on any topic>no, I won't>engages in pointless ad homkek
>>83851020>has a number of links with descriptionsI don't care about celeb gossip slop clickbait articles and will not waste any time on them. you're deeply unserious if you consider them evidence of anything.>encouraged to do their own further research on any topicI don't need encouragement, I do sufficient research on everything I opine on.>engages in pointless ad homI told you that it is my observation that most antinatalists are just bitter losers. you set out to disprove it by indirectly admitting you're a bitter loser. I don't worship celebrities and I don't consider them winners inherently, many of them are sad fucked up headcases who don't have agency over their own lives (like Britney Spears), others are sex trafficked, druggies, or criminals. on top of that, they're completely deviant from any kind of norm.some rich roastie singer not having kids does not mean that you're not a bitter loser. you so very clearly are. a non-loser would not have this debate to begin with.
>antinatalism is not a cope because... these rich pedophiles don't have kids!!!
>>83850522>Using words improperly has nothing to do with feminismOf course it does. It is the essence of feminism. Let's go back to the early 1800s, you have a group of old women who want to start a movement which is fundamentally built on two ideas>unapologetic disdain towards men>creating absolute female supremacy by establishing a system of resource extraction to bypass all previous restraints and arrangements that they had to adhere to if they wanted to live relatively comfortable livesWhat do they do? Can they just broadcast their hatred? No, for the average woman that was too much trouble at the time. Can they make a case for their ideology using reason and evidence? Absolutely not.Can they create a new type of ideology in which they twist the meaning of every word and engage in mental gymnastics, categorically reject the holistic understanding of gender dynamics and solely focus on the aspects that can be jingled in front of their followers to keep fueling and escalating the inherent misandry they know for a fact is present in every one of them? Seems more likely. They can and did in fact use this method to to rally most of the female population and actually convinced lesser men that they have to endure unseen hardships and cloaked their actual motives by presenting themselves as freedom fighters who represent justice and fairness despite being little more than domestic terrorists.Fast forward 200 years and the system is built. The extractor class is established, the direct, urgent need for male presence is bypassed, because productive male labor is guaranteed without any concessions on their end, the resources are secured for the foreseeable future, they no longer have any reproductive obligations(but still hold society hostage by leveraging the wombs that they don't even utilize) and they have an underclass of lesser males who will enforce this system indefinitely, despite the long term implications. They will ride this train into oblivion.
>>83851043I'm glad that you admit, that you're wrong. And incapable of having a factual argument and analyze the data presented to you. Animals like you are factually dime a dozen. This is not ad-hom, by the way. This is the bell curve of intelligence and brain power. Very few are on the highest x end of it and you seem to be at the middle of x at best.Also, you can't stop engaging in pointless ad hom. You see the opinions of other people are highly irrelevant to people with triple digit iq.Were you in posession of sufficient cognitive computational power yourself you'd know that.Calling everybody on this rock a loser won't ever change the truth, the facts, and most importantly, despite your delusions and desire, it won't change any outcomes. Not in the long run, anyway.TL;DR: You're wrong, so just take an L.
>>83851065>Of course it does. It is the essence of feminism.It's not.>who want to start a movement which is fundamentally built on two ideasYour interpretation is stupid and detached from reality of feminism theory.Again, take your incel grievances to a different thread, this is completely off-topic and no one cares, other than me, but only because I've been responded to personally.
>>83851074I have never been less wrong in my life than when I called you a bitter loser.>Calling everybody on this rock a loser won't ever change the truthI'm not calling everybody a loser, I'm calling losers losers. You're one of them.You set out to disprove my claim that antinatalists are bitter losers by showing me that you're indeed a bitter loser. That's not a great debating strategy.
>>83851081Lying doesn't do anything at this point because the results speak for themselves and everything I just typed is chronicled.
>>83851098I don't care what you think about feminism fella, particularly when you have the basic facts wrong, I don't know how clearly I can say it. Write a book or start a podcast.
>>83849832millenials have been trained to hate children, it's part of why they keep pushing for kids to have fewer and fewer legal rights.The reason to have kids is obvious. But it doesn't occur to them that someone could love their kids and the idea probably seems "pedophilic" to them.
>>83851092>That's not a great debating strategy.correct. Ad-hom is not a debating strategy at all. Your L. I don't care. World won't change.
>>83851143I see why you're confusing it with an ad hominem, but it's no an ad hominem.I said that antinatalists are bitter losers. The fact that you identify as an antinatalist unfortunately means that applies to you.My saying that you're a bitter loser isn't an attack on you, it's consistent with my view. I'm not calling you a bitter loser to insult you, I'm just saying that I have no reason to believe you're not one, since you're an antinatalist posting on /r9k/.And my best guess is that antinatalism is your coping strategy for an unhappy life, which is your business and not mine, but you're not gonna persuade me to adopt it as my own personal philosophy the way you're going about it.
>>83851119>have kids>massive financial burden>massive responsibility>can't stop them from seeing internet bullshit>have to keep them alive during teenage years>public high school is a relic from the 1950s, utterly useless for the 2020s job market>have an unemployable, massive financial drain living in your house eating your food"The reason to have kids is obvious"Is it vanity? Cowardice? I'm really not sure.
>>83851186Your reasoning is born of ageism and desire to control. Parents are increasingly unable to satiate their ever growing desire to control every aspect of their children's life. So they throw a pissy fit and resent their kids.
>>83851186>massive financial burdenThere's no better thing to spend finances on than kids, but some faggot addicted to gacha wouldn't know.>massive responsibilityResponsibility is a duty and not a con.>can't stop them from seeing internet bullshitSkill issue>have to keep them alive during teenage yearsPeople keep kids alive through worse>public high school is a relic from the 1950s, utterly useless for the 2020s job marketSkill issue, send them to a private school or move to a country with better public schools>have an unemployable, massive financial drain living in your house eating your foodThere's no one in the world I'd rather share my finances, home and food than my hypothetical kids, not even Asmongold or whoever your idol is, if you can believe that.Also the assumption that they will be unemployable just reeks of you being unemployable yourself. I'm quite employed and employable personally.
Raising kids fucking sucks. I should be the one allowed to take THEM to court once they're 18 and I kick them out of my house. They've caused me to lose years off my life via stress and sleep deprivation. I deserve restitution.
>>83849832>without asking them firstLiterally did. The one who fertilizes the egg first gets to be born. Everyone else can chill out. Egg can choose the chuddiest sperm as well btw, much chemical signalling happens before fertilization.So my question is why did you swim for it my simple-minded friend? Why did you leave millions behind, who also wanted to be the one? Seems like YOU chose to be born. No deal with it, fucking disgrace
>>83851160dismissing the agrument itself and resorting to the attempt to discredit the personality of anybody factually involved in it is the definition of ad hom.And wow look, now we're in the meta discussion instead, all because you discard the information provided to you.It almost as if you were never interested in a sound argument and the discussion in the first place, which I could even pretend to be surprised about, about telling you people like you are dime a dozen and there is no point in talking to you about anything in the first place, because you don't want it.I don't care what kind of stupidity you want to push under the pretense of having a consistent conversation, because it doesn't matter. It has fuck all to do with the reality and has no merit. Which is why the world won't change according to your wishful thinking and made up bullshit.TL;DR: Don't bother. You're not being taken seriously. Not from the beginning, and esp. not ever since you have dismissed obvious widely available data.
>>83851302>dismissing the agrument itselfBut that's not what I did.>And wow look, now we're in the meta discussion insteadFor the sole reason that you took the discussion there instead of showing me that there are non-bitter loser antinatalists.>because you discard the information provided to you.Clickbait articles about celebrities are less than garbage, and I already explained this.>It almost as if you were never interested in a sound argument and the discussion in the first placeI've posted on this topic some 10 times now, if you don't think that's interest, I don't know what is.>I don't care what kind of stupidity you want to push under the pretense of having a consistent conversationI think you just can't prove your own point even half-convincingly.>Which is why the world won't change Third time you mention this, as if I ever suggested I'm trying to change the world. You can drop it now, I absolutely never said that.>Don't bother. You're not being taken seriouslyI don't need to be taken seriously, I would simply like you to defend your own position if you think it's so worthwhile that others should adopt it too. You're really failing at it.> since you have dismissed obvious widely available data.Correct, that "data" would not hold up to scrutiny in a scientific paper, in court, or anywhere really. The existence of some celebrities not having children does not lend credence to my point about antinatalists being primarily bitter losers. If you took your own "data" seriously, you'd know that none of them identify as antinatalists, they just chose not to have children.
>>83851215>There's no better thing to spend finances on than kidsWhy? Is there a return on investment? What do they provide beside more burden?>responsibility is a dutyMuh duty. Duty to whom for what? To prove to the world you create value? How noble. You'll be a proud walking ATM.>skill issue, just move nations, get into private schools, and make sure your kids are fuckin' awesomeYeah, it's so easy. I can tell you own property, raise kids, and are definitely employed. You're in touch with reality.>I want to share my finances with my children in spite of the fact they may resent, hate, or actively steal from me. I love my hypothetical children that exist in my mind and they will come out perfect because I like to win arguments.Meh. You haven't tasted the real world yet so it's not worth discussing things like this with you. I'm sure your hypothetical kids will be as hypothetically awesome as you are and you'll live happily ever after and then everyone clapped.
All of the intelligent beings in the first world choose to not have any children. Including China.All of the shitholes don't care and continue to pollute the planet with humans./thread
>>83851341>Why? Is there a return on investment?Yes.>What do they provide beside more burden?Economic power and resources, happiness, loftier goals like developing your ethnic/religious group (if relevant).>Muh duty. Duty to whom for what?To the children themselves, to raise them properly.>I can tell you own property, raise kids, and are definitely employedI don't own properly yet, I don't have kids yet, and definitely am employed (I'd love if I weren't).>You're in touch with reality.Absolutely, sometimes too much, there are so people around me having kids so I get to interact with that aspect of life a lot despite not being a parent yet.>You haven't tasted the real world yet so it's not worth discussing things like this with youI don't know what I've been tasting all this time then, but take your own idea seriously for a second - if I can go as many decades without tasting "the real world", then how can "the real world" even be a concern? I can just live in the magical utopia you think I live in. Do you think the "real world" only activates once you have a child and everything prior to that is some weird utopian heaven of comfort? Hasn't been my experience.>I'm sure your hypothetical kids will be as hypothetically awesome as you areThanks, I'll do my best for them to be even better, mistakes are teachable moments.
>>83851342>All of the intelligent beings in the first world choose to not have any children. Including China.The second most populous country in the world chooses not to have children?This is retarded even for antinatalists.
>>83851342Humans are not equal. The world needs more Europeans
>>83851384>I'm the ignoramus maximusokay>>83851393available evidence suggests that yuropeans disagree. yuropeans clearly want to go extinct and they're already replacing themselves with tens of millions of migrants from africa and muslim countries. afghanistan, being an awful shithole, seems to be one of the favorites.Figures, it's easier for the 0.01 to enslave uneducated migrants who are inferior to the current AI.
>>83851412>okayDo you expect me to agree with the nonsensical claim that the second most populous country in the world, with ~15 babies born a minute, is somehow not having children?>>83851412>available evidence suggests that yuropeans disagreeThat available evidence is bullshit in my experience.t. European living in Europe
>>83851412>yuropeans clearly want to go extinct and they're already replacing themselves with tens of millions of migrants from africa and muslim countriesYou're delusional if you think that is the informed choice of Europeans, and not the result of socially engineered demographic change, open border and immigration policies, an intentional lack of ethnic consciousness for Europeans, and a capitalist system that produces economic precarity rather than a stability lending itself to producing children.
>>83851441I said 0.01. Didn't you read?>but muh yuropeanscattle that wants to go extinct. I don't see any action being taken by the general population to turn the franchise around. They're docile, they're fine and okay with going extinct. Completely cucked people. They can't even vote against 0.01%.
>>83851457>cattle that wants to go extinctNo one is going extinct other than your own bloodline nigga. You're the one not having kids.
>>83851467I'm a highly intelligent white european with a comfy job bringing me thousands of euros per month.
>>83851480And you're not reproducing, and you're projecting this situation on every white European, while every other guy you went to class with has 2-5 kids already.
>>83851489nice fairy tale. come back to reality now. just look at the data.
>>83851467If it were up to me, your kind would be sterilized before they could move here. This is not a radical proposition. It is comparable to official government policy from when my father was in his 20s.
>>83850040"Morally-sensitive people" make awful parents.
>>83849973What manner of retarded must a man be to think their suicide is "empathy"? You're inhuman, a literal cancer in society's fabric.
>>83851494It's not a fairy tale, it's the reality of life where I live, people are having assloads of kids.>>83851495>your kind would be sterilized before they could move hereI live in my own country and hail from a fully autochtonous family, so I don't know what you're talking about, project your incel hysteria on someone else.
>>83850071That chick in the vid isnt insecure at all
>>83851441Nobody except few left lunatics want to go extinct, but a lot of people dont really care. As they didnt before, but it was expected to have a heir if you owned property, giving you more social prestige, while plebs just fucked. Its questionable if really many more people dont want kids, or that many kids were unwanted consequence of fucking, that can now be avoided.
>>83851522>It's not a fairy tale, it's the reality of life where I live, people are having assloads of kids.Yes. According to the available data, as usual, some African countries indeed have a children per female ratio of 3.0-4.0+.No other countries in the world do. Not even the most traditional Muslim societies do, let alone white Yurop, China, Japan, or NA.
>>83849832>What is one unselfish reason to have children?Life usually sucks but there are few and far between moments that are beautiful and make it worth living, and I want to give that gift to someone.
>>83851539>Yes. According to the available dataThe data is not important. I'm typing this sentence as buffer so you can go "omg le data not important facts feelings lelele". Let it out of your system then read the next paragraph.The important thing is whether you, yourself, and the people around you, have kids. You don't live birth rate statistics (which can swing on a whim anyway), you live your own life.But feel free to not have kids to own the libs.
>>83851543>gives birth to an ugly retarded loser trash who is disabled and can't do shit, and won't experience any good moments
>>83851555>The data is not important.Empyrical data is the only thing that matters.
>>83851567Statistics don't matter at all. I either have a kid or I don't. Some number on a page will not change my life.
>>83851559>retards don't experience good momentsI don't want a retarded kid but they are literally the happiest people on the planet. Ignorance is bliss.
>>83851570>Statistics don't matter at all.I said empirical data. Not statistics.>>83851571>Ignorance is bliss.can't and won't argue with this one. true.
>>83851583>I said empirical data. Not statistics.Statistics (which you cited) are not empirical data, they're a story told about data collected by someone else with dubious methodologies.They are not empirical data to you, as you did not observe their collection, thus the criterion for being empirical is not met.
>>83849832spoiler: nonexistence is a myth and you will be reincarnated into an equally miserable sack of shit for eternity until you stop feeling sorry for yourself
>>83851592>Ignorance is blisskeeps being proven fundamentally true time and again. Look at this anon here being blissfully unaware of the concept of the human resources itself and then the national databases in all of the modern day countries with a computer network. kek.Who is going to tell them that global economy is counting people and their contribution to the financial systems sometimes even before they're born, when the economifags are projects and dreaming wet of the never ending expansion?
>>83851626>keeps being proven fundamentally true time and againYou're actually proving it wrong because your ignorance is making you sad.>Look at this anon here being blissfully unaware of the concept of the human resources itself and then the national databases in all of the modern day countries with a computer network. kek.Very cute deferral to governmental authority, and it's authority that's never been more questionable than as of late across the world.I'm telling you that the government's horoscope about birthrates fundamentally has nothing to do with whether you, personally, have kids or not. You either do or you don't.>Who is going to tell them No one needs to tell me anything, I'm sufficiently educated about the topic, and you're trying to deflect from being caught not knowing what "empirical" is.
>>83851559not everyone gives birth to children with severe microcephaly
>>83851605Proof that nonexistence is a myth?
>>83851543How is this is the first post in the entire thread that addresses the question in the OP?
>>83849832Not going to bother engaging with you.You worship satan and you don't even know it.Hiding you silly ass thread as well.I hope one day you find God.
>>83852842Jesus was antinatalist.
>>83852557I said a similar thing (down to using the phrase "gift") but you chose to ignore it.
