>tricking and lying to get ahead
yes, the jewish bible is very jewish

>>84155217
Esau didnt really appreciate what he had, and Jacob scammed him. Both were awfulZ

>>84155217
The funniest part of the Jacob story is, God sent an angel to go fight Jacob for some reason and the angel horribly disfigured him but he survived so his was like yeah man okay you're pretty cool, you can call yourself "Israel" now, which ones one who rebels against God.

If you just read, you'll realize it's all very Jewish

the OT is full of shit like that where someone is a lying cunt and gets rewarded for it
why are you trying to make sense of what bronze age retards wrote about?

File: IMG_8375.jpg (269 KB, 1050x1528)

269 KB JPG

I think it's about materialism like Esau sold his birth right for some soup.
You could interpret this as someone abandoning their faith

>>84155217
It's a continuation of the fall narrative, only this time specifically for jews.
>can't spell Esau
It's right there in the image, retard. It's 4 letters.
>>84155301
>gets rewarded for it
Like when Cain gets eternal life and God's protection.

>>84155315
I was thinking more about the guy lying about his wife saying it was his sister
god unfairly punished that leader who was trying to marry and sleep with her, how the fuck would he know that he was lying and she was actually his wife?
the guy even gets further rewarded by the guy he essentially fucked over too which made no sense at all
>hey instead of telling me that she was your wife instead of your sister god nearly wiped my whole fucking lineage out, heres a bunch of stuff as thanks

First of all why are you asking "christians on r9k"? Like going to a brothel looking for a bible study.
But isn't Jacob the bad guy...? Yes. He is. And his name can mean supplanter or deceiver. And who else is a bad guy? You. The Bible is talking about real people, and real people are evil and terrible. Jacob wrestles with the world, he's a crook, he scams his brother, and then decades later when he's about to meet his brother he assumes he's going to kill him but Esau has moved on. No one but Jesus lived a perfect life. Everyone needs God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbBrN4m0kao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qlfi6doRJI

>>84155309
>Esau sold his birth right for some soup.
You couldn't sell your birthright. Esau didn't take the offer seriously, not because he didn't appreciate what he had, but because it was absurd. If anyone is materialistic in the story, it's Jacob, for thinking that 'deal' meant something, and for usurping the paternal order.

>>84155217
There are explanations. Jacob screws his brother over, then gets screwed over himself, then Esau basically forgives him and move on and founds Edom which gives the Isrealits trouble later. But the new testament takes it further by saying God just likes Jacob more and that Esau is just flat out lesser, deserving of a less special existence and God found him annoying.


As it is written, I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.

14What then are we to say? Is there injustice on Gods part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. 17For the scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.18So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses. 19You will say to me then, Why then does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? 20But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, Why have you made me like this?21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; 23and what if he has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory 24including us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

>>84155389
You couldn't sell your birthright? But he did. That's what happened, that's the culture. Just like when Jacob steals his father's blessing that was meant for Esau. And his father says Oh well Esau, your brother stole it, what can I do?
"Yeah but just bless him again or something because he was tricked--"
Ancient people took these things very seriously and real, it just is what it is.

Most of Genesis is history. This happened and then this happened and so on. Jacob tricked his brother.

>>84155400
No where does it say "God found him annoying" God doesn't just hate random people and find them "annoying". The Bible says God hates nothing he has made, he doesn't shake his fist in anger and feel hatred to Esau which is the nation of Edmon.
Jesus says you should hate your mother and father compared to God, that is your mind should be set on God more than your parents because by doing so you do best for your parents.

>>84155423
>god doesn't hate rapist torturers of children
Why do you think this being is worth devotion?

>>84155429
Guess what? You're an evil person too. I know you think you're better than other people, but you're not. If God was to decide to just get rid of all bad people... guess who will disappear from existence? Everyone. But God has patience. The Bible says he is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance. God would love if a bad person turns from the bad things he does, just like you, me, the rapist the robber the whatever.
But if they don't want God and his ways then in the end they will be cast away from his presence. That's their choice, God would that they would turn. He has NO pleasure in the death of the wicked, the Bible says.

But that is why Jesus lived the perfect life that we can't. And took the punishment you deserve, and yes that wicked people also deserve, doesn't matter "how bad" you have sinned and fallen short of the standard of God.

>>84155366
>No one but Jesus lived a perfect life.
Why didnt Jesus cure mental illness?

>>84155448
Just because you are an evil person doesn't mean everyone else is. Holy shit

>>84155453
He did. Quite literally, more than once. People who were insane he cast out the unclean spirits from them and healed them.
"Yeah but that's spirits not physical." If you say someone acting insane you'd say they are mentally ill. So yes he cured mental illness. https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Psychology

And he still does cure it, I've heard people being delivered from mental illness. Though frankly I think everyone on this earth is mental ill. The amount of times people do things that are harmful to themselves and others, even when they know it's harmful, sounds insane to me. Jesus said no and just lived a proper life.

>>84155448
some people are more evil than others
I would trust a Golden Retriever over a Chihuahua
is this how liberals justify rapeugees?

>>84155463
I'm not telling you my personal opinion. I'm telling you what God says, what Jesus says, the Bible says. You are bad person, because you have sinned. That's how it is. "So are you!" Yeah... that's why I trust in Jesus for salvation and follow him to sanctification.

That's the whole point. Did Jesus die for your sins or not? That's why the Bible says the cross is offensive. Because people don't think they deserve punishment for sins, therefore Jesus dying for their sins means little to nothing. But God calls us to perfection. If you get mad at your brother you are a murderer, if you look at a woman with lust, you are an adulterer. You told a lie? You're a liar, and if you break one of God's laws, it's like breaking them all.
Not my opinion, it's from God, I didn't choose the style of universe and reality. And you can believe it or not, but I would suggest looking into it.
There's four first century accounts of Jesus' life, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, Mark. "Gospel" means good news in Greek. You can listen to audiobooks of these on youtube.

>>84155448
>know you think you're better than other people, but you're not.
You're a complete retard if you think that people who torture children to death aren't worse people than people who don't do that.

>>84155448
>shoplift one time? that's as bad a raping kids
this is why nobody takes your guilt-driven beliefs seriously

>>84155453
he wouldn't have any follower otherwise

>>84155423
it's in the quote. God thinks Esau is some incel or something. He says he made Esau for less special purposes, and that he hated him and that he endured him longer than anyone else so he has the right to do whatever he wants to him. Humans are dolls, regularly compelled to behave or misbehave, and their rights are arbitrarily taken away, and no human has a right to complain to him about it. God is above being complained to, because we are very lowly unspecial things. It is this weird unnecessary point that's being made out of it in Romans.

>>84155498
Except horrible people who hate the knowledge that most everyone they meet is a better person than them.

>>84155493
>If you get mad at your brother you are a murderer, if you look at a woman with lust, you are an adulterer.
>are you staring at that attractive woman?! that's it buddy, eternal hellfire for you

>>84155448
>He has NO pleasure in the death of the wicked
This implies that God choses to do something he doesn't want to do because justice is above his will.
But the common theological position is that God's will is justice, so that doesn't make any sens.

>>84155493
sounds suspiciously like battered wife syndrome
>you are terrible
>you need me
>you are nothing without me
>only I can make you happy

>>84155486
Yes some people are more bad than others in a human way... but God's righteousness is up in the sky. On your best day you might be standing on an anthill over others, or as the prophet Isiah describes it, "our own righteousness is like dirty rags". Trust me it won't really matter on judgement day, "Well yes I wasn't that great, but look at this other guy! Look at what he did!" The worst person you've met and yourself will both be cast away from God's presence, and yes there's some indication that people have it worse than others, but you don't want anything bad I assume regardless.

But this is a good thing that everyone is in the same boat. Because it means everyone can turn to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and rebirth and new life, not trying to better yourself in hopes maybe God accepts you. But you can KNOW whether you are going to heaven or not by the receiving of the holy spirit. Paul, a christiain in the first century knew where he was going, and he says "not me only, but all those also who love his appearing."

>>84155496
Like I said, I'm telling you what the reality is. You are in the same boat as everyone else. You are a evil person, just like everyone else, you've committed sin. "Yeah but I'm not so bad!" Okay well tell God that on judgement day, that you're not so bad.
When you steal a car and you get brought to court, be sure to tell them "I'm not so bad! Other people are worse than me!" and I'm sure they'll just let you go.

>>84155448
>Guess what? You're an evil person too.
Guess what, so is he. Is that worthy of worship? No.
>God would love if a bad person turns from the bad things he does,
He ought to just compel us, like he does at plenty of times in the bible. He finds no issue with it, nor is there any need to even apply it sparingly. Honestly, if he cared, he would deal with it. He's done harsher things for less. the obvious answer is that he just doesn't think raping kids is that big a deal. He loves some children and hated others and loves who he loves. Some clay was made for a special purpose. Some clay was made to get raped, violated and filled with ejaculate before puberty.
"Has the potter no right over the clay?"

>>84155498
Your greentext has no relation to anything I said so I can't respond to that.
If you don't think you deserve punishment for sin, then you can't receive forgiveness for sin. Are you saying you don't feel guilt for what you've done in your life? You've lived a perfect life? Well tell that to God on judgement day as well.

This is about God, not me, not an opinion. The Bible says among many other places and ways, "The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift."

It's not about being driven by guilt, Jesus says he came not to condemn the world, Because, pay attention, because the world is condemned already, we are already condemned by sin. Jesus came to save, and that's the driving force, the love of God, free gift of salvation. That Jesus carried his cross up hill for you personally, he lived the life you couldn't. The nails didn't hold him to the cross, it was his love for you and me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNc7W8VsVMw
You want a religion that is driven by your personal best and then hope God is nice to you? That's EVERY other religion in the world. Christianity is about God first and His goodness and perfection. "But don't I still have to be good." The holy spirit causes you to grow into what God has for you.

>>84155217
>"Me mum! Me mum!"

Oh shut the fuck up

>>84155519
God is perfect and holy, he cannot simply pardon sinful men, wicked men. Breaking God's laws is no simple thing, no minor thing, it's why the world is so sick and filled with greed and hatred and evil and pain. God is far above all our sins, but he cannot simply pardon sin. The payment fort sin is death. The question is, are your sins going to be dealt with on the day pf judgement or are they going to be dealt with 2,000 years ago on the cross of Calvary, the central point of history.

>>84155585
>God is perfect and holy, he cannot simply pardon sinful men, wicked men
So he isn't all powerful, got it.

>>84155523
God doesn't want sinful people to remain sinful. This is expressed always, sin means death, and why will you die? Says God through the prophets, why will you not instead come to me to be healed?
But God can't force people, or at least he will not literally possess people and make them into robots removing their free will, though he encourages people to seek good not evil.

>>84155610
>God doesn't want sinful people to remain sinful
why not? Sinful people get what they deserve at the end so why is it a bad thing for them to sin?

>>84155535
I hate this shitty morality in my home
My brother bullied and insulted me and when I told my parents to stop him they retorted that we're all bad people, you see sometimes I can be a bit lazy
My brother can bully and insult me all he like but if I say I hate him for bullying him then Im just stooping to his level
Fuck you and your twisted morality, some people are assholes and others just want to be left alone

>>84155533
But you are terrible. Do you think you're a good person, a perfect person? "Well I'm not perfect--" okay well then you don't deserve to live with a perfect God, you don't deserve his eternal paradise of goodness.

And this is not new information, religions pretty much never assumed they were going to go live with god, or be in the realm of god. King Pacal of the mayas has a depiction on his coffin of him going into the underworld. the Egyptians believed they went to the underworld, every religion, of course the underworld the land of the dead might have had nicer or worse parts to it. The Jews as well believed this.
But the idea of living with God, Jesus offers that, and many others since then imitate it, but Jesus offers that, he invites people to the Kingdom of God, His kingdom.

>>84155555
God doesn't take over people's free will to take them to heaven.
Yes, God compels people to goodness, that's what christanity is, God by his holy Spirit compels people to do what is right and be become more and more like Christ. But that starts with YOUR decision. You have to make a decision. You have to decide to accept the gift of Grace, and you do that by preparing your heart, we cannot earn God's grace, but we can position our hearts to receive it.

That's the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and even non-christians have a conviction, we know when we do evil, unless you're so far gone your consciousness is seared as the Bible says. But God's law is written on everyone's heart, no matter where on the earth or in what time.
And also God watches people's steps, keeping them from evil. The Psalms talk about this, and the prayer Jesus taught says this "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil." Jesus wouldn't tell you to pray this unless you had to ask for it, and not just randomly always receive it, but it's a decision to ask.

>>84155648
>you don't deserve to live with a perfect God
>he invites people to the Kingdom of God
SO God has wishes that goes against the natural laws of the universe, implying that the idea of "justice" stands above his will.

>>84155648
>>84155672
Can we tell this god the world he's created is disgusting, painful, awful, and not worth it, and that he fucked up royally, and should start over?

>>84155595
No, he just isn't unjust. You want him to pardon the rapists and murderers and so on now? Without punishment? Imagine if human judges did that. God isn't just randomly doing things because he can, he will not do things, for example he will not lie, there is no darkness in him. Who God is, is revealed in Jesus Christ.

And so all the wicked people, evil people, bad people, sinners, God will pardon them not for free but by having the punishment placed on his son, the final sacrifice for sin. Sacrifice for sin is something all humans have known. Not just the Jews, all the way in Japan they were putting their sins into dolls and burning them. But usually it's animals of course, because animals are innocent, and because you have done many sins, and sin means death, you must take the life of the animal you raised and loved, and that's on you.
Jesus is the Lamb of God, the Messiah. The Messiah was prophesed to take our punishment for us. Jesus life was planned well out ahead of time and he fulfilled it perfectly.

>>84155217
The Bible really is fucking insane when you get into it, and it's crazy that anyone could ever look at the Israelites as heroes or god's people. Moses tells his followers to wipe out an opposing tribe, kill all the males (including children), and keep all the females as sex slaves (including children). The so called """good guys""" (Jews) are constantly committing murder, rape, slavery, genocide, and every other morally despicable act imaginable.

>>84155631
God loves people. He has compassion for people. In fact the most common emotion the bible attributes to Jesus is compassion, he has compassion on the crowds.
And God knows that every thought of a man's heart is evil from his youth. And Jesus is not a high priest who cannot "be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Jesus lived in this awful world, he knows what it's like and what temptations there are.
Sinful people, which is all people, have a window of opportunity for mercy. Now everyone knows that. If we're talking about God, what god are you following so confidently that says sin is no problem in fact it doesn't matter. It matters, of course, we know there's good and evil.

But Jesus is not offering the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he's offering the tree of life. Knowing good and evil is one thing. But love, faith, holiness, eternal life.

>>84155708
>You want him to pardon the rapists and murderers and so on now?
So why is he trying to save them?
An innocent taking on the punishment of the wicked so that they may go free seems pretty unjust to me and that is what you say God's plan is.

>>84155736
>God loves people
If your brother commits a crime and you don't want him to be punished, your love is ovrpowering your sense of justice.
So God's will is at odds with justice.

>>84155647
It's not about "we're all bad therefore don't worry about justice."

Now I don't know what this discussion was suppose to be about. But I'm saying that first of all don't be overly concerned judging other people, because you will be judged, if you put down OnlyFans girls, you're committing sexual sin too when you look at porn. That doesn't mean you can't say what e-prostitutes do is bad, it is bad. But hopefully they get help. And the point is everyoen is condemned by their own sin, and that needs to be dealt with in Christ, that's my only point, because that is the Gospel, and like once wrote Paul, I wish to know nothing but Christ and him crucified, when I "preach" the Gospel. Not that I preach, I'm not a preacher.
But OP had asked a question. Which should have been answered by now. Yes, Jacob isn't a great guy, the Bible isn't say he's the best guy ever.

>>84155736
>God loves people. He has compassion for people.
god supports genocide against non jews
god ordered saul to kill women and children of the amalekites
fuck your jewish tribal warfare storm demon

>>84155674
No, because the natural law of the universe is free will. God wishes for people to do what is right with their free will. Why he made a universe with free will is, well it's what he has done.
As much as we might want to, we can't make our own universe, we are dust, we are semen egg creations physically and we live a few decades. We have free will and we can choose a horrible end or good end. But God cares and will continue sending people and telling you about Jesus, you will hear about Jesus until the day you die. Jesus the most known person on earth and the Bible the most accessible packet of information on the earth. And the cast amount of churches and preachers. And you can also just pray and seek God in goodness and pray for the new covenant, pray for the holy Spirit. Jesus says he will give the holy Spirit to those who ask.

>>84155694
Yes the world is awful because humans sin. Everything in this world is dying. Genetic entropy. The stars are all running down. The universe is dying, even atheists agree now with that, they didn't used to. And everything sucks in this world.
Jesus says you should hate your life in this world. And that you haven't even entered into true life yet. And yes, God is "starting over" when all who will enter the Kingdom have entered.

>>84155409
>You couldn't sell your birthright? But he did.
Did why did he have to trick his father? The birthright is the blessing. Esau can't sell it because he doesn't have it, and it isn't his to sell, it's the father's. He has a right to it, but again it isn't his to sell, it's the law's.
What matters is who Issac blesses, the selling of the birthright is just a phony justification Jacob makes up for what he does.

>>84155749
He's trying to save them because he loves them, God loves all people. But he can't just "okay you're forgiven." and then let them continue to do evil.
So he pays the price for our sin and then he helps us to walk in his way, that's the teachings of Jesus and to be a disciple of Jesus. Jesus died for the whole world, but he didn't want the world, he wanted the treasure in the world, God's people, all who will come to God. Redeeming us cost Jesus everything, all that he had, he died with nothing, he was buried in a borrowed burial robe and in a borrowed tomb, and on his way to the tomb he poured out the last of his life blood. And what did he see in us that he would pay so much?
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3.16)

He doesn't just pay the price but he causes us to walk in his way, and changes us. He justifies us. If he just died for your sins and then you forget it and go about sinning and die in your sins then you're still in trouble with all your new sins uncovered by the blood of Jesus because you didn't really care. Following Jesus is a commitment, but he's there with you until the end as long as you want. "And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age" (Matthew 28.20)

>>84155795
God does not support "genocide against non-jews" What sense would that make, considering God himself sent VARIOUS nations to destroy Israel themselves because of their sins. Yes. Everyone is a sinner and everyone will die, whether that's in warfare or by disease or old age it won't make much difference. But the nations Israel was commended to destroy were especially heinous, and it's hard for people in the modern world sitting in comfort to understand just how evil a society can become and needs to be destroyed. And that means everyone. Children who die are fine. In fact it'd be a great mercy to not have to face this world.
And yes, Jesus says children are welcome into the Kingdom of God. Very young children, obviously very early on children can become accountable too and commit sin and feel nothing of it.

God deals with peoples in their own time. And so any other complaints you have about "Well in ancient Israel God let the Hebrews do this!" Such things can be answered as Jesus asnwered them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."
Jesus calls us to an even higher standard, not to return to 14th century BC Israel, that's not God's plan, not his ultimate goal despite what the rabbinic Jews think, God's ultimate plan is Paradise. And yes God had to deal with ugly things in this world caused by human sinfulness, which has spawned it. And God will also understand people in their times, which is good, because there's things in our time we can be hopeful God understands of our own limitations in understanding.
And you can call God all the names you want, Jesus says even in this case forgiveness is still offered.

>>84155826
I don't think the birthright and blessing are the same thing. Birthright means all the rights related to being the first born, what rights and privileges exactly did the first born get in this time and culture? It doesn't go into it too much. But Esau sold whatever the first born was to get. But the blessing was just a thing their father wanted to do.

>>84155814
>Yes the world is awful because humans sin.
And god create the world and humans, so HE fucked up, not us. He should start over if he had any sense or true concern for the suffering of his creation, but he evidently A) doesn't give a shit at all, or B) enjoys our suffering.

>>84155920
>Esau sold whatever the first born was to get
That is the blessing, which is what would give him the patriarchal power.
>just a thing their father wanted to do.
That alone would make it very important, but obviously it's more than that considering Esau's and God's reaction, and everything that happens after.

>>84155907
>christ nigger types out a wall of cope to make excuses for his genocidal deity

just admit it was totally cool for sauls army to kill those kids on gods orders

>>84155857
A world where wicked men get punished from their sin is more evil than one where wicked men go free while an innocent suffer th punishment that others deserved.
Ergo God is evil.

>>84155954
So you don't want God to create you? All these complaints you level at me, feel free to save them for when you die and face the Lord, you can complain to him all you want about how all the bad things in your life are his fault and you deserve... something. And also tell him you shouldn't have ever been made, or whatever. But he has an eternal paradise, eternal life for all people.

>>84155972
I respect your question, and answer it, and I do have even more I could say. But if you're not going to respect anything I say and not respond to it but just ask the same question, what's the point of answering your questions?

You can disagree with a death penalty on a human level all you want. God is not a man, he knows the future, he knows the hearts of all people on this earth. When he tells Israel to destroy the pagan nations, he knows they must be destroyed or else the Saviour cannot come through Israel. When he floods the world killing everyone, they are sinful, the people they raise sinful, he knows their time is up. Compassion does not mean just letting people do whatever they want. Sodom and Gomorrah had time to repent, the nations Israel destroyed had time to repent. In fact, people who surrender to Israel or were friendly to Israel during the wars were not killed, like Rahab.
Everyone is going to die for their sin, they have to face that. God knows when your time is and your future. Whether he's going to have mercy on you or not is up to you. And yes it's up to you even as a child, not a baby, but a child. There's plenty of children more close to God then elders and vice versa.
You cannot justified yourself against God, it won't work, you can stand there and accuse him all you want of the world's evil and its problems. That's what Satan is, the "Accuser".
God's ways and law endures and remains and he alone has eternal life, everyone else will die eventually. How they died won't matter, how they lived will.

>>84156004
I know, you guys are desperate to justify yourself, and your welcome to make these same arguments to God. About how evil HE is... and how great you are, maybe sit him down and teach HIM a thing or two, for sure.

But to be honest I don't understand what you're trying to say. Wicked men don't go free in this world, God says he won't pardon the wicked. But if a man is forgiven in this world and changes his ways, why is that evil?
Have you never forgiven someone? Or if someone hit your car and someone else came and said "I will pay for this man the damages" who is evil in that situation? But isn't the person paying righteous and generous. Now if you continue hitting cars eventually the person paying for you is just supporting a bad habit. God asks for repentance from sin, repentance and faith.

>>84156164
>But to be honest I don't understand what you're trying to say
What I'm trying to say is that God cannot both be all just and all loving based on how christianity defines those term.
>God asks for repentance from sin, repentance and faith
But all humans sin, including those who are saved. Christians sinning less and trying to sin less is irrelevent when they still deserve hell no matter what, so God is saving the wicked.

It's better to have someone deceitful as long as he doesn't stray from the path of your God, as Esau later just doesn't give a shit and rightfully so if God's plan for him wasn't anything special

>>84156217
Sinless people aren't going to heaven. Because only Jesus lived that perfect righteous holy life (dead babies are blameless but not righteous in the same sense.)
Forgiven people are going to heaven. And it's the difference between the Tree of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life. And not just forgiven but people hidden in Christ, followers and lovers of God, the best of their limited ability. Jesus has done the hard work already for them to enter.
Christians are forgiven of their sins, it's a feeling of the guilt and association being lifted off. And that happens in a moment, from then on the person is sanctified in a process, that process begins here, like a seed growing and blooming in heaven when free from temptation and sorrow.
What if Christians sin after salvation? Then they can still have those sins covered, that's why Jesus taught to pray about forgiveness, it's also why churches do communion with the bread and wine to remember what Jesus had done and to reflect and discern your own life. But God is looking for a type of character, a character bearing the Holy Spirit which is the seal of salvation.

A lot of Bible passages I would like to copy and paste. But I would just look at Gospel presentation which does all those things and explain in full detail everything. This is just 4chan. A Gospel presentation like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpPEdNOyK0 Don't mind the title it's not really about the Sabbath so much, but it goes through the whole Bible.

>>84155907
>Children who die are fine.
Please take your ghoulish jewish propaganda and kindly step off the edge of the nearest tallest structure.

>>84156333
Children who die are fine. Why is that a bad thing? Are you saying you want children who die to go to hell?
See, you can try to greentext something out of context but anyone can just read the post for themselves. Children (and we're talking about under 4 or 5 years) are fine when they die from whatever caused their death, and what causes their death is living in a fallen world.

File: takeshi delishus.gif (597 KB, 320x220)

597 KB GIF

>>84155217
The point is I need that fucking soup recipe, obviously

>>84156355
>allow me to clarify my abhorrent beliefs by doubling down on my bloodthirsty deity
No it's okay, I got your point the first time. It's fine to kill kids because they'll just end up in heaven anyways.
Be sure to tell that to a grieving parent.

>>84156457
Yeah, children who die go to heaven, Jesus says children are welcome into the Kingdom. If that upsets you... well, I hope you're "epic trolling" and yes, children die, and so will you someday. It's funny how little we think about our ultimate destination just to live in this horrible world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__D7qtsLtmg

>>84156316
>1. sinful people going to hell is justice
>2. forgiven people are sinful
>3. forgiven people are going to heaven
>therefore, 3 is unjust
what's hard to understand about that?

>>84156483
Christians achieve disciple maturity, but that's not even why they're entering Paradise. Their righteousness is the righteousness of Christ. If your sins are forgiven, and you walking in God's ways by his Holy Spirit, why would you be denied Paradise? If you are blameless through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christians aren't going around being evil on purpose. That's not Christianity, they might make mistakes. That's very different from being willfully sinful. But even in all sin, all sin can be forgiven.

"Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (I Thessalonians 5)

"Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith- that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead." (Philippians 3)

It's not about your view or my view or any man's view of things. It's about how God views things. And he expresses it constantly.. "when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life." (Ezekiel 18)

>>84156536
And these passages, just let the Bible explain itself really, don't waste time listening to me:

"Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God." (Galatians 2)

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." (Romans 6)

And these passages are not just words, this is Paul, a first century Christian who experienced the risen Jesus who was sent to preached by Jesus. These are letters he wrote to churches at the time. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Aha83boa2SQ

kek, so retarded how people take this shit seriously 10,000 years later, its an excuse for deep rational thinking about how to be a good person in the world we live in

>>84156609
And from a letter from John who was a direct disciple of Jesus while he walked the earth.

"This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (I John 1)

The Bible repeats itself over and over again. So you never miss it, and no matter how many times people try to corrupt or hide things the message will remain. And as I said to see Jesus and his life for yourself, just look up audiobooks for the Gospel of Luke or Matthew or John or Mark on youtube.

>>84156536
>Christians aren't going around being evil on purpose. That's not Christianity, they might make mistakes. That's very different from being willfully sinful. But even in all sin, all sin can be forgiven.
it being on purpose or not is irrelevent because people aren't being send to hell for being willfully sinful, but just for being sinful.
Forgivness is incompatible with justice, God as he is described in the passages you post is not just.

File: civ.jpg (77 KB, 1200x314)

77 KB JPG

>>84156696
Yes, it does matter if it's on purpose or not, the old Torah actually goes out of its way to distinguish between accidental sin and not.
But no, all sinful people are going to be separated from God regardless that's true... aside from those who have been forgiven. That's it. Are your sins forgiven or not.

That's how it is, if you have a different idea, it's cool but you'll be dead in a few decades like everyone who came before you... so. God says get forgiven and follow me. "Yeah but what if I don't follow perfectly." He's asking you do do your best and be forgiven.
I know, again, maybe I'm being rude but this obsession with trying to "catch God" "oooh I'm gonna prove HE'S the bad one see!" And you're doing this by saying he forgives people, how terrible. God is WAY bigger than your sins, so if you want them gone, and to be forgiven of them and continue to be forgiven you can be.

>>84156743
Sorry, I meant to post that picture to the 10,000 years post >>84156651
But I don't really want to waste time about that.

In fact I cannot stay here anymore I have to go home.

>>84156743
And also I want to say, sin will ALWAYS cause you to go further than you want to go, and pay a price higher than you're willing to pay. (Which I stole from our pastor who always says that). So even when you find forgiveness and repentance, your sins covered with the blood of Jesus, yet:

"For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives" (Hebrews 12)

So as a Christian after receiving the Gospel, you're not just going to get away with sin. But I'd rather deal with it here in this life than on the day of death.

>>84155217
I never heard any of this names. how do people still fall for religion?

>>84157783
>religion bad cuz i don't recognize the names
Impressive reasoning abilities.