As a straight White man, what do socialist movements have to offer me? And can you refute this pic?
>>84162982I'm a leftist primarly because I believe in economic justice. Social issues are also important, but they are much more vague and harder to act on. I also believe that the social aspect will "regulate" itself after the economic does, because the majority of population will feel safe.Basically, fix wageslave cycle and then we can talk about bp, racism and other vague shit under a new perspective.
>>84163005>because I believe in economic justiceyou believe that whites are the privileged and wealthiest and since leftists dont believe in borders or nations you want to import entire third world here
>>84162982I'm not a socialist leftist more of an establishment Democrat Black Guy. There are some socialist policies we should allow but I think you're looking at this in the wrong way even when welfare largely benefits minorities it also benefits whites. American welfare is not really based on racial lines. It's based on economic lines, so even if you're poor and white, you still get welfare. I don't know why people will want to get rid of it just because minorities are on it people forget most Rural/Countryside poor whites are on some type of welfare like Obamacare (aka Medicaid/Medicare) and SNAP. I personally don't like the dependency on government but America right now has a really bad affordability issue that's not getting addressed. I think if you're looking at this in a racial lens (even if they're black), it's kind of a lame duck view about It really doesn't solve root causes of things Also, there is a lot of upward mobility in America but don't really promote them at all. I'm not in school anymore but it was really pushed to go to college which is a good way of getting out of the lower class.The problem for all lower class people that they have really bad habits and bad upbringings so college is really hard myself included. Poors need and want money fast so trades are the next best if you're poor, go to a hard trade and currently America is in a desperate need of Tradesman in general but states are really bad at promoting their apprenticeships opportunities to the younger generation (some states are better than others). And .Our generation (I'm a zoomer) is currently bag chasing to the up most degree and the young black men are going to the trades in droves right now. I'm going to over generalize here because I don't really know about young white men issues. But it seems to be that a whole lot of young white men are on the internet mostly and not really pulling themselves out there to do trades but then again this could also be an online thing.
>>84163175You are just putting words into my mouth, as always. I don't believe whites are either priviliged or wealthiest. There are only 2 classes, proles and bourgeoisie. The parasite class hoards the wealth, steals it from labor, and passes it to their kids and they continue to do so. The parasite class has everyone: jews, whites, arabs etc.>"but they are mostly jews!"Don't have a statistics on that, but wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Jews were historically banned from working normal jobs, and they went into banking. Capital passes down by generations, and now we have jews billionares. Who would've seen that coming.>"Leftists don't believe in borders"I don't, doesn't mean we should immideatly abolish border control. "No borders" is a great fantasy which can only be achieved in a perfect society, it's not a question of today.>"... or nations"I was growing on a constant nationalist propaganda provided by the state and school. Nations are a social construct like any other. They only exist as long as people believe in them. If proles actually unite, most nations would probably seize to exist and we'll have "cultures" or some other bs. Rn nations only serve as a way for elites to divide us and drive us into each other for their own interests.You have a sense of community, not "nation".
>>84163175You're strawmanning them, y'know. Leftist opposition to mass/labor immigration and to anti-white idpol is fairly orthodox. It's really defined by economic thought. Western "left" culture is a separate phenomenon that's so arbitrary and vague it's not really even right to describe it as ideology. Not left myself though.
>>84162982modern day leftism is inherently anti-straight-white-male
>>84163175>you believe that whites are the privileged and wealthiest and since leftists dont believe in borders or nations you want to import entire third world hereNta, you're attacking a strawman even if he did believe that you have no proof of that. You are just making assumptions "Economic Justice" could probably mean higher taxes on wealthier people. But then again you could be a Indian or a Mexican LARPing as a white guy for some reason hell, most likely a bot with the sovl turned up to 6 or 7
>>84163249Nigga are you actually posting a fucking tweet from 4 years ago? Are we serious right now bro? If you are, nigga get more recent tweets. Holy shit
>>84163249Because american xitter (ragebait for money, btw) enthusiasts represent ALL leftist movements. Do you even believe in this yourself?
>>84162982Here's my answer as a white, straight, Australian socialist.Neoliberalism destroys societies. Just look at how disastrous Reagan was for America, or Thatcher was for the UK. On the contrary, every time a Democratic Socialist government has historically held power, the lives of ordinary and working people drastically improve. For example, the The Clement Attlee post WW2 Labour government in the UK, The John Curtin/Ben Chifley Labor government in Australia during the 1940's, etc.History has proven that pro worker, anti capitalist policies, when implemented in a democratic system, always work to improve the lives of the people. And no, the current Labour governments in Australia are terrible. They have been completely corrupted by neoliberalism and have completely abandoned their socialist roots.
>>84163302so because it was from 2022 it means it isnt true wow, you must be gen alpha
>>84163353this 2022 tweet from @nightcorefan86 is indeed not a good foundation for your opinions on large and varied political schools and movements
>>84163305You can cope as much as you want but that tweet is right for any leftist community.
>>84163302does it being four years old invalidate anything?>>84163305sure there are some ragebaiters out there but far too many leftists are completely serious about it.
>>84163369Love the screenshots from echo chambers on reddit (most of which have been hijacked by the american "socalists", btw) . Also, just 2 things from that one screenshot.1. What makes you think those 2 replies are from the same person? I'd like to be wrong, but all I see is that they are both replies by the mods.2. Reddit mods have been historically very representative of the communities they moderate, haven't they? Glad you are listening to them when it's in favor of your argument.
>>84163387>"some"If you take your info on demographics based on the social media that pays people for ragebaiting others, then you should rethink your ways of forming opinions.I could pull up tons of screenshots with grifters on xitter saying stuff like "raping children is normal tho". That doesn't mean that every person on the right is unreasonable and should be laughed at.
>>84163369You're changing the goalposts. Instead of debunking socialism (which you can't), you instead claim that the left isn't really socialist. Why don't you engage in good faith and actually argue the merits of socialism?
>>84163317>Neoliberalism destroys societiesSocialism obliterates civilization itself.Before candles, socialists used to use electricity for lighting.>Just look at how disastrous Reagan was for America, or Thatcher was for the UKThe most prosperous periods in the US and the UK were the 1980s and early 1990s. By far.Thatcher enriched more working class people than all of the previous governments from 1900 till her combined.>On the contrary, every time a Democratic Socialist government has historically held power, the lives of ordinary and working people drastically improveThis is objectively a lie.>For example, the The Clement Attlee post WW2 Labour government in the UKThe one that indefinitely prolonged food rationing to the point that the average Brit was worse fed than most Soviet peasants? That government?"Labor" is codeword for slavery and misery. All economic leftists should be lined up against the wall and shot. By doing that the lives of ordinary and working people drastically improve literally overnight. The finances of nations improve as well. Killing leftists should be a constitutional right. Being a leftist should mean automatic renunciation to the legal status of human.
>>84163396>no true scotsmanYawn>>84163435Huh? I just pointed out that leftists care more about social issues than economic issues, that's all.
>>84163353>>84163387I should be more candid with my thoughts.You are getting a political belief and stating that everybody believes that from a Twitter post is beyond retarded and intellectually lazy. And thinking about it further the fact that you held this screenshot for 4 years .You do not have the mind or don't want the mind to actually understand your opponent's position
>>84163446Assuming that you're in the same Anon gotta say nice bait. I feel stupid for taking this somewhat seriously good job lolz
>>84163435>Instead of debunking socialism (which you can't)if you still believe in socialism after gorbachev starred in a pizza hut commercial thats on you
>>84163446You pointed out leftists caring too much about social issues by showing a screenshot of reddit mods messages.Would you ever use reddit jannies opinion as an argument, if it it were not to create a strawman? Doubt it.While I do agree that alot of leftists get into the politics primarily because of social issues they experieneced or witnessed, I still think that actual leftists start to favor economic side of things after some time.
>>84163596>reddit mods are just some random losers, they don't have any powernot like they control the largest forum on the internet and radicalize countless basement dwellers like themselves, or anything
>>84163610Again, you are putting words into my mouth. They are losers, and they do have power. Doesn't mean their opinions are automitcally right. How often do you agree with people in power or "influencers"?If anything, reddit mods are the ones most likely to have a dogshit opinions, and providing their words as a way to support your claim about all (or most) socialists is just silly at best.
>>84163302wow nigga a fucking nigga tweet from fucking 2022 nigganigga fuck
>>84163438>Thatcher enriched more working class people than all of the previous governments from 1900 till her combined.You'd be lynched for saying this in the average British working class town. Why were there celebrations in the street when Thatcher died? Ding Dong the Witch is dead became number 1 on the charts that day.
>>84162982>As a straight White man, what do socialist movements have to offer me?I don't care and I don't think you're straight if you browse this board anyway.>And can you refute this pic?"conservatives" consistently facilitate as much or more immigration, so pretending it's uniquely a "socialist" problem is just copium.
>>84163243Which people you you advocate not granting immigration to? I want to see the list.Would you ever support deporting anyone?Do you think it's a bad thing when a first world country imports third world people, and the third world people proceed to change the culture around them, commit crimes, and act rudely to the natives, or is that all just moot to you because you only perceive a binary of "the rich vs the rest", and you think "those crimes would have happened anyway" among other copes?Do you think it's bigoted of me to want to retain aspects of the culture I grew up in, and not have strange and alien cultural practices shoved down my throat?You have to chime in on these topics, and provide real answers at some point. "Erm actually the rich are the only problem, and everyone else is going to be friends" is a delusion. Not an argument.
I don't care if the companies are managed by the working class but I hate socialists because they are anti racist retards who try to push the idea that whites and asians are equal to the impulsive, low IQ africansBlacks commit crime at a higher rate and have drastically low IQ scoresIt's obvious blacks aren't equal to whites or asians since the entire fucking continent of africa got colonized and the fact that precolonial africans had built fucking nothing compared to whites or asians leftists will deny all of this proof that blacks are inferior and pretend every race is equal
finally someone turned one of my rants into a copypasta
>hurr Nazis are the real revolutionaries>no we commies areThere won't be a revolution and if there was you'd be the first to die in the fight, and if you hide until the fighting is over, you'd be the first to die in the post-revolutionary military dictatorship.This 'revolution' LARP shit is so tired and boring from both sides of the NEETcel coin, it's sad honestly.
>>84162982You have to understand that leftism is mostly defined by the world view upper class White boomers.For them seeing White men as privileged makes sense but that's just elite projection.In practice they're systematically legislating against working class men, specially young White working class men.Leftism doesn't make sense because you're making your already bad life worse for the remorse a bunch of academics and trust fund kids feel over living way better than everyone else without addressing the economic structures that make them rich.
>>84163438are you unironically falling for the loads of money propoganda?
>>84164010What socialists do you think have been in power in the US? Genuinely curious.
>>84164022No one, all leftism that really exists in the US with a minimum of relevance despite the socialist LARP and the occasional red flag has always been liberal.This is set theory leftism englobes progressive liberalism and socialism but liberalism and socialism are separated subsets.Discussing socialism in the American context makes no sense.The left that's really existing up there uses redneck (a term that comes from the Coal Wars miners who fought for their rights) as an insult, that says all what's about to say about them
>>84164073>no oneExactly, which is why saying "they're systematically legislating" doesn't make any sense.
>>84164022Major political figures like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders are self-avowed "democratic socialist". Many hippy boomers supported socialism and communism, albeit it to be edgy. There are unironic socialist parties in Europe and the western world, Britain's Labour party for example.Progressives will claim they are not "socialist" it has been their doctrine since FDR was trying to push the new deal and countering claims he wanted socialism at a time when Stalin was conducting his purges. Likewise many socialist and social democratic parties in Europe now claim they are no longer socialist. However they are always full of people like AOC, they support nationalization, open border immigration and everything socialists love. It is not really red terror paranoia to accuse them of being socialist, it has more substance than the typical r*ddit or tw*tter post accusing someone of "fascism".
>>84164094It makes sense because liberal progressivism is the leftist movement that has been behind all of this and what people in the US understand by left wing and it isn't wrong in that's in line with a leftist movement most classic characteristics: universalism, secularisms and rationalism.Leftism is older than the socialist movement.Leftism takes it's name from those who sit at the left in the French Estates General (Though this has a long tradition tracing back to the Nicaean Council)
>>84163853British towns tried a government managed economy in the aftermath of WW2. It was a disaster.
>>84164135What legislation did AOC or Bernie Sanders primarily effect that you don't like? There's never been open borders in the US, so it can't be that. Bernie Sanders has even been very nice about Trump's border policies.
>>84164135>Likewise many socialist and social democratic parties in Europe now claim they are no longer socialist.They aren't, they sided against socialist states in favor of the US in every single conflict and they explicitly reject the socialization of the means of production.Their ex leaders sit at the highest echelons of Europe's private businesses through revolving doors related to massive public contracts.Their only goal is to parasite the power structures for personal gain through the usage of captive voting groups with whom they stablish client relationships
>>84163993I have literally never called myself a Nazi. That was you and your friends saying that.
>>84164174then why do you identify with it when people call out nazi behaviour?I don't think of any other way you would think you're being called a nazi.
>>84162982>white privilageAre you currently making a decent wage? If not, then this privilage is meaningless.>what do socialist movements have to offer me?In theory, a better wage. Or at least equal wage. I'm not gonna defend communism here. It historically hasn't worked as intented. Fair labor laws are different. These aren't trying to uproot the world as we know it, but simply correct for a handful of injustices. >Leftistdon't care what you call it. call it socialism, democratic socialist, liberalism, idc. i just want my wage to pay for my living expenses. >can you refute this pic?Fuck Bloomberg.Fuck Soros.Fuck Fink.>Immagration. The majority came here and worked for a better life no different than me. This has negative effects on the job market, sure, but only because these companies use immigrants for cheap labor. If we were paid the same, you would out compete these immigrants. Fixing this is arguably easier and more effective than a mass deportation.
>>84163305All western leftwing movemets yes, so if you live in the west, its all.
>>84164170socialists and big capital united decades ago dumbass"Big business is by no means antipathetic to Communism. The larger big business grows the more it approximates to Collectivism. It is the upper road of the few instead of the lower road of the masses to Collectivism." - Russia in the Shadows by H.G. Wells, page 152"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records." - Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley"The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history. How extensively China opens up and how the world interprets and reacts to the social innovations and life styles she has developed is certain to have a profound impact on the future of many nations." - David Rockefeller, From a China Traveler (New York Times)
>>84164183The problem with immigration is that instead of solving structural problems within the economy, they just let these problems multiply while promoting an unsustainable and completely unprecedented level of increasingly unqualified immigration to stay competitive (read as increasing the disponibility and lowering the price of the L factor)These of course makes other already existing dynamics existing within liberal democracy worse.The reasoning that persons are equally interchangeable is an absurdist reduction by the reigning universalism that devaluates all cultures.A person immigrating is not a problem, millions doing so each year is the result of structural problems.
>>84164183>If we were paid the same, you would out compete these immigrants. Fixing this is arguably easier and more effective than a mass deportation.I don't care about pay I just don't want them in my country.
There's literally no class warfare, unless you mean the war to annihilate the middle class. You commies need to understand that leftism is fundamentally Jewish and evil. Neocons are basically just communist moles anyway. Conservatism is long dead and saponified, everyone is now playing a role in the grand theatre of trotzkist* permanent revolution.*broadly meaning sneaky jewish world communism
>>84164210Yet, here we are now with these very same people throwing a massive fit over China and Russia and inciting a new world war (Rockefeller institute publishing hawkish panflets, for example).It's clear that they've failed. They don't have as much as you think that they have outside of the West
>>84164174Sorry, white christian ethnonationalist+separatist. There won't be a revolution and nobody will ever realize your ideals.
>>84163516I actually got that belief from first-hand experience talking with leftists. I just posted the screenshot because it succinctly reflects my thoughts.
>>84164181The Nazis were German sperglords who were all about dressing in gay costumes, starting grand engineering projects they couldn't afford, and couldn't go five seconds without invading someone.I'm advocating none of that. I share the worldview of the people who fought the Nazis.Plus I'm not fucking German, so I can't be one, can I? Dumbass.
>>84164785So you're like an FDR democrat
