>God will never leave me nor forsake meFor precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRXDYvpA020
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I'm so stressed because I feel like a doomed to damnation because I'm a weak sinner. It just replays over in my head and makes me want to die because I'm stuck in fight or flight mode.
>>84167226Every Christian ever was a sinner, that's why they needed to get saved. Have you not put your faith in Christ yet?
>>84167573If it's a Lordship salvation/ misunderstanding of the Gospel thing, refer to the video in the OP
>>84167573I have but then you read stuff like not all who are called will be chosen or not all who say Lord o Lord will enter the gates of heaven.
>>84167666Oh, these are pretty standard arguments. The solution for that stuff is>1. "The chosen" group in the New Testament are those that would put their faith in ChristThis works against most Calvinist interpretations too>2. Depart from meThis one is kind of long so I'll break it down verse by verse.>Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.People asking Christ to enter into heaven at the White Throne judgement (after they're dead)>Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Their argument to why they should go to heaven is their works. Ironically this flies in the face of Lordship salvation, because it's a works based/ works retained salvation. >And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.The most important part. "I never knew you". If He knew them, then they sinned, it wouldn't apply. The fact that He "never" knew them implies that once Christ knows you, you're saved forever, which is the model of "Salvation of Grace through Faith" instead of the deceptive "Lordship salvation" which tries to add works (keeping from sin is a work, repenting is a work (Jonah 3:10)) to salvation.If you interpret the New Testament this way, there's nothing that clashes, everything is in harmony. You can have that "Not all that say unto me Lord Lord" verse, and Salvation being called the "gift of God" in Romans 6:23, salvation being through faith in John 3:15, etc.
>>84168905For the first point, just look at the parable that same chapter uses. If you get the wedding garment at the door (Get saved = put your whole faith on Christ, while you're alive) you're accepted in, if you try to get in through some other method (any works but Christ's= all other religions) you're thrown out into outer darkness (hell).Also the "chosen" argument is annoying. It completely ignores God's stated perspective on the matter. >Rev 3:20 >Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.Things the Gospel is likened unto: accepting a gift, opening a door, drinking water, putting on a garment. It wouldn't carry for "Lordship salvation".
>>84168905Can you hear the voice of God? I worry my heart is too hardened because I can't hear it even though I put my faith in Christ.
>>84169015How often are you reading the bible? That's what God left for you.How often are you praying? That's how you talk to God.
>>84169147I've heard some people say He talks to us through scripture and when things pop out as us? Does that work for you? I'm always doubting myself and feel like I only hear my own thoughts.I pray each day before I sleep. Should I pray more?
>>84166976Your God wants children to be raped, so I can never agree with Christianity. God is omnipotent and ever-present, so he knows every time a child gets abused and asks for help. He could easily teleport in there and prevent it but he actively chooses to NOT help. This means he is either evil or indifferent to the most painful perversions.Free will is not an argument. Dead babies go straight to heaven and have a meaningful relationship there with God, despite NEVER having to use their will on Earth. In Heaven, there's no evil. So explain how free will on Earth has to exist for humans to have a true relationship with God without being robots? Dead babies who go to heaven and spend eternity next to God without being robots debunk that argument completely.
>>84169167Sometimes they do, more often with sermons. It's more like you recognize something that's applicable to you. The Holy Spirit, which indwells every believer, helps us to do this, bringing relevant verses to mind, etc. Growing as a Christian happens little by little, like the verse in the OP mentions. If you're trusting in repentance or clean living over Christ's sacrifice to save you, you aren't saved and reading the bible has no benefit.
>>84169232I guess I always interpreted it as both. Christ saves us because we are unable to free ourselves completely of sin and fulfill the law. However, I always thought we still needed to strive to live clean lives and repent from sin which is the part I still struggle with. When I read it always makes it obvious how flawed I am then I over stress because I worry my life doesn't honor God.
>>84169218>rape and murder and stealing and lyingYeah evil occurs on earth. Sinners will get everything coming to them in due time. Eternal punishment even. >God doesn't pre-empt all sinHe tried once when he drowned everyone on Earth except Noah and his family, it just ended the same. >God teleporting inLying is a sin to God, thinking a stupid thought is a sin. They're not equal to rape, but I don't see why God would draw a line there since they'll all send you to hell. Under your model, God would teleport in every two seconds to dole out corporal punishments on everyone for sinning. He gave us the death penalty for rape, if we want to use democracy to defang human government so that child rapists aren't immediately murdered by police upon receiving the verdict, Gary Plauche style, that's on humanity. >It's unfair babies don't go to hellBabies die before they know right from wrong so they never sin (knowingly do wrong). "True relationship with God" has no meaning here. >Like robotsWe are robots (r9k users). I hope this answers all your questions. I'm going to bed.
>>84169346So you gave absolutely zero non-evil, logical explanation as to why an OMNIPOTENT God passively watches while children get raped instead of saving them.If a human had the power to stop a violent crime against a child and chose not to, we wouldn't excuse them by saying "Don't worry bro let's just watch the rape happen, the attacker will go to prison for life later" ... We would still consider that a moral failure.>Yeah evil occurs on earth.Yup and dead babies going to Heaven proves that evil isn't needed for anything. God just lets evil happen because he wants people to suffer.
>>84169346>It's unfair babies don't go to hellI never said it's unfair. I don't know why christians are too retarded for this argument. EVERY TIME I bring it up you get it wrong. It's perfectly fair that babies go to Heaven. It simply debunks this idea that evil and free will somehow must exist to have a true relationship with God. Babies die without ever undergoing these human challenges and they still have a perfect relationship with God. So there's no excuse for it. It just means God wants us to suffer.
>>84169293You can't do both.Works relied upon for salvation are worthless. They're dead works. You cannot earn your salvation, you cannot maintain salvation through your own works. It isn't that cheap. Only the blood of Christ can pay for it.>Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.Christians are meant to do good works and keep from sin, strive to live clean. If you aren't saved I wouldn't worry about this point. If you think you need to do this stuff to "stay saved" you were never saved, because you never fully trusted in Christ. It's applicable to that >never knew youverse from earlier. Maybe this is where the tension you've been feeling came from. Please watch the OP video and put your faith in Christ. Here's additional material (sermon on why Lordship salvation isn't right) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK2CtyvTLlkChristians aren't perfect. You'll struggle with sin until you die, but we can only have faith while we live (because you'll have visual confirmation in heaven).
>>84169386Thank you for the explanation. I will pray on these thoughts and try to ease my mind.
>>84169386Faith doesn't matter though. Adam and Eve walked next to God and had free will. So faith on Earth is just sadistic, playing with people for no reason and leaving them in the dark, as millions of people will never even believe in your religion.
>>84169363>why doesn't God just destroy all the evil peopleYou failed to understand. Read that post ten times before you reply again.
>>84169404I didn't say destroy anyone. I said SAVE the innocent victims. You can not give me one true argument as to why God didn't save children getting gangraped on Epstein Island and defiled in horrible ways."Umm they get punished later ok???" isn't an argument, you fucking idiot.
>>84169218How strange that God wiped out nations that burned and ate children, and yet you're mad at God?Well of course, humans never cease to blame God for all their problems and never themselves.People hate God so much they want to kill Him. Jesus taught about the right way to live and love and generosity, and humans are so filled with hate they want to kill him, because he exposes that all are under sin and fall short of the goodness they attribute to themselves while condemning others.How about God kills you? If you want God to just get rid of evil... then you have to go as well you realise that. But God has patience and mercy until the time when yes all evil will be cast away and you'll be on the side of eternal life and righteousness in Christ or on the side of blaming God for the evil of human beings, somehow.
>>84169416God is omnipotent and it takes no effort to him to save innocent children. Stop being a cock sucking slave, crawling in front of a tyrant.WHY DOES GOD NOT SAVE THE CHILDREN THAT SUFFER? WHY DOES HE WATCH PASSIVELY?You can't answer this without admitting that he is indifferent or evil.
I can't believe that there are adult, grown men with a decent IQ who think the Creator of the Universe just came down into some desert area few thousand years ago (and all the 10 000+ years prior to that of humanity he was just chilling in the shadows) and let people create man-made books about him.... LOL Instead of just appearing to all humans around the world, at all times, no matter where they are, in a vision. Clearly telling them who he is and what he wants. People really thinking God is out here thinking "umm yeah that bible book that will be edited, changed, fought about is the best way to reach humanity" HAHAHAHA
>>84169421Why has God allowed you to do evil and hurt others? Why hasn't he gotten rid of you? Why doesn't he stop people from insulting one another, hurting one another, lying, stealing? It's your choice.The prophet of the Muslims says submit, Jesus says, decide. Decide good or evil. This world is under the devil.So once again, when you die, feel free to tell God you're a good person and God is a bad person because... other people do bad things and that makes God bad somehow, even though God punishes the wicked and rewards the righteousness, but him know and then he'll deal with your sins.
>>84169445Yeah, why does he not stop me from hurting others? Why does he allow rapists, murderers, to hurt the innocent that he loves so much allegedly?>other people do bad things and that makes God bad somehow,Buddy, he is omnipotent. He can lift a finger and prevent every child from getting raped, but he does not. Why? Why does God want children to get raped so bad? Again, only things that God WANTS to happen will happen. If he doesn't want something to exist or to not happen, it simply wont because he is all-powerful.
>>84169445You guys are so insane. Imagine if your best friend just watched passively while your mother, wife or daughter got violated in front of him. Your friend has a gun and could save them, but he just watches. When you confront him he shrugs and says "So? Wasn't me who hurt them. Also they will go to prison later so it's all good."You'd hate that person forever. You'd call them sick and twisted. But if GOD does this, it's perfectly divine and loving? You are a brainwashed slave.
>>84169431No one needs to convince you of the truth when you are so desperate to lie to yourself about things. It's up to you to be mad about God. God doesn't force you to stop being an atheist or not to be filled with your own self-conceit. Go and be that person.Or understand God through Jesus Christ who is the image and character of God, who says "Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?"Your wilful ignorance in pride and mockery is your own struggle. No one is stopping you from seeing the truth.Jesus is offering eternal life. He was raised from the dead and performed miracles as 30+ 1st century documents would tell you and as millions upon millions of people throughout the ages who have been changed by the living power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit will tell you. And all this was foretold centuries before Jesus ever was brought forth. The promise of the Messiah fulfilled. But... feel free to believe... something else if you want. Maybe your great great grandparent was a sea sponge. Good luck with such a religion.
>>84169475You are just following a man-made construct. A true God has no need for written books edited by greedy people, he can literally just appear to every person around the world and make it 100% clear that he is real.You have zero proof that Jesus wasn't just a schizophrenic jew with a cult.
>>84169463>>84169470Once again, you're free let God know how much you hate him because humans are evil. Let him know that you hate him because He allows you to exist despite you doing evil.Tell God directly. "How dare you allow me to do evil, you should get rid of all evil right now!" And he will he'll send you off with the rest, with all the other people you think you're so much better than.
>>84169487Once again, you refuse to explain why God who is omnipotent and could easily save every child being defiled by rapists just watches passively even though he could snap his finger and prevent the horrible abuse from happening.
>>84169482I know Jesus is alive, beyond the obvious evidence of the physical world arguments which have all already been made, and to this day no counter arguments have really been made. Celsus said Jesus did perform miracles but he must have been taught magic by Egyptians, and the last argument was Nichizche who thought the Disciples were lying to themselves about the resurrection which makes no sense for various reasons.But for me, he saved me by the power of his Holy Spirit, an experience that born again Christians all experience.The lifting off of sins, the feeling of the spirit entering, visual element. But, I don't care, see, if you don't believe. You can't convince me of a lie when I know the truth. And I have no interest in convince you of the truth when you hate the truth to begin with.But I would suggest anyone if they want to know about Jesus, you can easily access audiobooks of the Gospels (which are the four books written about Jesus) on youtube, modern english.
>>84169514Yeah and other religions will say "I know my God/prophet is alive" so you have no more proof than anyone else.
>>84169497I have explained many many times actually, about God's mercy and patience to all mankind, anyone can read my posts. I would suggest you read my posts instead of replying to them in further anger about how much you hate God because you want to justify yourself.But if you want God to not have mercy on evil men, then he will not have mercy on you for certain. That's why, I'd be careful with that.And I would also suggest to not fret theyself at evil men, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4HkFH2RbuwThere's two major Psalms which express this idea, "Why does God allow evil?" the authors of these psalms come to the same conclusion. Wicked men are judged by God, but let yourself do good.
>>84169531If you think Joseph Smith and Mormonism or Islam or Shintoism or all the Polytheism idol gods have as much evidence than Christianity you don't understand what you're talking about. And you'd be better off asking questions and looking into these things instead of writing everything off in anger.
>>84169545You have not given a direct argument as to why God does not save children from sexual abuse in this thread. You just deflected and pointed your fingers at others.Answer this with yes or no:1. Is God all powerful? Yes or No?2. Could God, if he wanted to, teleport into any place that an innocent child gets abused and save the child if he wanted? Yes or No?3. If you answered with yes, does that mean God simply does not want to prevent the child abuse from happening? Yes or No?>>84169555>If you think Joseph Smith and Mormonism or Islam or Shintoism or all the Polytheism idol gods have as much evidence than Christianity you don't understand what you're talking about. They do. Ancient religions existed for many thousand years before Christianity ever came up.Name 3 things that prove your religion is more valid than the others.
>>84169577I'm not continuing talking to you about "Why does evil exist? God should stop it right now!" You have been given the answer I don't know how many times, I've come in halfway through this thread so probably even more times than I've told you.If you have a problem with wicked people and evil men, who will soon fade away as they all do and meet God's judgement. Then that's your problem. It's not God's problem. God is not responsible for the evil YOU do. So why would he be responsible for other people's evil. Or maybe you think God is responsible for every bad thing you've done. We don't live in a world where God controls us like puppets. We live in the human man-made world where you can do what you want and you will face God.This is not something I ever in my life have had a problem with, even as a non-christian. So I try to be sympathetic, and you can read the Psalms.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2037&version=ESVhttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2073&version=ESVOr you can not read because you want to continue to be ignorant and angry, and maybe that'll get you somewhere.
>>841695991. Is God all powerful? Yes or No?2. Could God, if he wanted to, teleport into any place that an innocent child gets abused and save the child if he wanted? Yes or No?3. If you answered with yes, does that mean God simply does not want to prevent the child abuse from happening? Yes or No?>God is not responsible for the evil YOU do.God send innocent souls without their consent into this world (children) so he is 100% responsible to make sure they are safe.
>>84169577I'm not sure how a religion existing is proof of anything. The fact that Egyptians believed a crocodile man judged your soul before Jesus was born is proof of the Egyptian religion? Although the reality is everyone has always known there is one God alone. Even in polytheism they often only confess belief in one ultimate God, I have video of Hindu men in temples admitting this, ancient polytheist admitted this at times. Polytheism is a cultural religion. No one is trying to prove Zeus.Additionally Christianity is not something that Jesus came and said "Here's a religion" Jesus is the Messiah promised to David, to Abraham, even to Eve, thousands of years before He was born, Jesus came when He was meant to come and accomplished the things Prophets had said he would accomplish, which is already one proof that Jesus is Messiah, in fact no one else could be Messiah but Jesus.Prophets and history leading up to Jesus is a proof, a vast topic that would take 100 textwalls to go through every single point.You can look at archeological evidence for countless events in the Bible. I would look at Joel Kramer for things on that who is now uploading videos online, so it's even easier:There is no one in the first century more reliably documented than Jesus, and there's no alternative version of Jesus put forth in the first century. He performed miracles, died and rose from the dead. If you have an argument against the first century documentation, then put that forth, I'm sure you've read them all. You've obviously read the New Testament, you wouldn't be so passionately certain about the topic otherwise.We can go through just one at a time right now. Why is the Gospel of John not true in your opinion?I'm already out of text space, so I'll add the most important proof is the holy Spirit, which is given to those who seek Jesus.
>>84169694>I'm not sure how a religion existing is proof of anything. The fact that Egyptians believed a crocodile man judged your soul before Jesus was born is proof of the Egyptian religion?Ancient religions existed for thousand of years prior to Christianity. If your God was objectively real, why did he let millions live and die without the knowledge of him? Makes absolutely no sense.The true explanation is that Jesus/Christianity aren't the real religion and just another flavor religion out of thousands.>Even in polytheism they often only confess belief in one ultimate GodSure. That's not YOUR God though.>You can look at archeological evidence for countless events in the Bible.There is zero archeological evidence of anything supernatural/divine said in the bible. Historical evidence doesn't mean anything because countless other books also documented history.>There is no one in the first century more reliably documented than JesusBuddy, we don't have a single document or book written by someone who actually saw or met Jesus, only from people 30-70+ years later who heard about it. And the earliest of those even called Christianity a superstition.
>>84169756If you're asking where people went to before Christ died for the sins of the world, they went to the place every single ancient religion including Judaism said they went, to the abode of the dead. Pretty much zero ancient people thought they "went to heaven". Whether you were a king in Egypt or a king in Mezo-America, you went to the underworld. What the abode of the dead looks like, the Bible says little about that. Whereas moist religions just flat out say often exactly what they look like because you can just make up anything.Why does Jesus say you can enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Because it's His Kingdom, the one foretold in the prophets that the Messiah would have, a Kingdom that would start as a stone and grow into a mountain. Jesus a man who preached for three and a half years, who's Kingdom has grown global to the point people all over the world spontaneously find faith in Him.If you actually just read the Bible instead of assuming, you'd know where people went before Jesus, and where they went after Jesus.Jesus tells the thief of the cross, "Tonight, you will be with me, in Paradise."Christianity is the oldest religion, because it's based on the "religion" of God who created the earth from the beginning, starting with Adam down to Noah to Abraham to David to Jesus. And it's been around since the time of Adam.And I will reply to the other things you said and then I probably have to go.
>>84169795I am not asking where they went. I am stating that if God was real and fair he wouldn't just let people stay in darkness and delusions for thousand of years. He would have appeared to everyone around the world, no matter where they are. But he didn't. Many civilizations spend worshipping other Gods and beings for thousands of years. But your God isn't real, he's man-made. That's why he comes only from one random desert from a book that countless people edited and changed. A God has no need for that. He could simply appear to every person in our soul and tell us. No matter if you were an Ancient Egyptian 9000 years ago or a modern person.>Christianity is the oldest religion, because it's based on the "religion" of God who created the earth from the beginning, starting with Adam down to Noah to Abraham to David to Jesus.Christianity is not the oldest religion historically. It did not exist from the time of Adam in any verifiable sense.
>>84169756It's not about "your god my god". Every ancient culture talks about the great flood, the detail vary, but they're talking about the same thing obviously, in fact it's very obvious but that's another topic.God is the God of all the earth, that's what the Bible says, "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also" (Romans 3) and God through the prophets directly tells Israel at one point, "Are you not like the Cushites to me, O people of Israel? declares the LORD. Did I not bring up Israel from the land of Egypt, and the Philistines from Caphtor and the Syrians from Kir?" (Amos 9)People have known God. The Bible says all the people on earth are without excuse, because God is clearly known through the creation and through the law written on their hearts, the consciousness they break when doing evil. And sin. Ancient people sacrifice animals for sin, because the payment for sin is death and animals are innocent sacrifices, even as far as Japan they placed their sins into dolls and burned them. Jesus is the final accomplishment of sacrifice for sin.People all over ancient civilizations have expressed understanding the one true God, and for limited text space I would just defer to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-bMgXQV7no
>There is zero archeological evidence of anything supernatural/divine said in the bibleI try to be very understanding. But it's kind of annoying, when I tell you to look at something and you don't. Because this is a false statement, and you would know it's false if, instead of wasting time on 4chan, you looked at things I told you to look at. Like Joel Kramer who is an archeologist, best selling book in archeology at the moment (which he's very proud of), he has proven divine events in the Bible, physically on camera on the ground, right there for you to see. Sodom and Gomorrah, the plagues of Egypt.And it's not just "Joel Kramer" or whoever, many archeologists have uncovered proof of Biblical events, supernatural events, yes. It's the largest field in archeology, it's massive.So waste time, reply to me, but but. But I'm done. Because I'm only wasting your time by encouraging you.You won't look, you won't even read the New Testament, you will continue to assume things and stay ignorant, if you wish.
>>84169756>Buddy, we don't have a single document or book written by someone who actually saw or met JesusOnce again, a false statement. In fact I've never heard anyone try to even make this argument. And again, I already asked you to prove why you think the Gospel of John is untrue, I'd bet though you've never read or looked into it. Never looked into the Gospel of Matthew or Mark or Luke, never will read the Letters of Peter of Paul or anyone.Waste your time here if you wish. Like C.S Lewis says, at a certain point I won't allow you to waste my time. You can ask questions, but if you're going to just say whatever you want to say without evidence, and then ignore everything I tell you, forget it.I want everyone to go to Paradise.
>>84169855>Every ancient culture talks about the great floodBro are you retarded? Early civilizations often settled near rivers prone to flooding and catastrophic floods were natural events that happened. This isn't something the bible invented.>God is the God of all the earth, that's what the Bible saysDoesn't mean it's the God from your book. Cultures with no exposure to the Judeo-Christian God often have very different understandings of divinity. You are failing to post ANY proof that your God is more legit than the Egyptian's main-God.>>84169891Name three supernatural/divine events in the bible that we have archeological evidence for.>>84169907There is no evidence that John wrote the gospel of John. The gospels have been written decades after the supposed events.
