is it possible to recover from months to years of lived trauma? what if you're smart and know how to function regardless? is that just coping? what if you're also sentimental and attach to ideas at a level of abstraction other humans don't ever touch?do i move on and flip a coin on recovery or submit to a vicious and unforgiving carrot on a stick?
holy shit shut up
>>84239081honestly it'd probably be very hardthe best way is by making more connections, just keep gambling because that is our reality right nowgood luck anon, an old man moves the mountains
Psychedelics heal ptsd and trauma better than traditional antidepressants. Go buy shrooms and heal.
>>84239100water is wet.. i never appreciated the scale of pain others in my life have displayed or expressed. trauma really really sticks and morphs your mind and thoughts.gambling for what? who is going to come and save me?
>>84239139i've dabbled in this before during the happiest times of my life. i used it to admire all of the small things that were overshadowed by the other joys in my life. i learned things that have been sitting right in front of me for decades unnoticed.i would like to try more but i am horrified that using while in a bad place will lead me into a dangerous hole.
>>84239142God will come and save you, anon. Karma is very real and good people will be saved and bad people will suffer, but it will be through small steps, it is as if you were climbing a tall mountain. It's very hard to realize a lot of it when others try and you just push them away.
>>84239139Traditional antidepressants can't even beat a placebo in the short term. Forgot picrel.>>84239151You're wise to make sure that you have a good mindset while you do it. Don't take it when you're stressed or feeling especially depressed. Try to find something cathartic to do to purge your mind of the thoughts before you do it.
>>84239081it is possible, the same way a bird with a broken wing can learn to fly again, the same way a broken hand can once again write a symphony or produce a work of art. the deeper the trauma, the more care required to heal completely, and sometimes that wound will still ache. but recovery is possible...>what if you're smart and know how to function regardless? is that just coping?sometimes it's enough to bury it under the carpet. if it's not being picked at, it might take care of itself while you're focusing on other things in life. sometimes it festers. depends on the trauma you have..>what if you're also sentimental and attach to ideas at a level of abstraction other humans don't ever touch?this is when it's hard. sentimentality and attachment to objects, to times, to places. memories that flood back in like a broken dam every time you accidentally associate. these ones.. just take plenty of time. time for it to pass and no longer feel as intense. it's painful, until it's not.>do i move on and flip a coin on recovery or submit to a vicious and unforgiving carrot on a stick?nobody is qualified to answer this, only yourself.. but you can keep flipping a coin as much as you need, and you shouldn't have to submit to something vicious and unforgiving just to fill a void. >>84239142>gambling for what? who is going to come and save me?you never know in the connections you may make... there might be people out there who want to save and be saved. are they behind a corner? probably nyot..>the scale of pain others in my life have displayed or expressed. trauma really really sticks and morphs your mind and thoughts.they say trauma bonding is like crack for broken people. addictive emotional highs.
>>84239154there is no such thing as good people or bad peoplewe are all just people and good/bad is an internal expression of emotion.>>84239160i used to have an impenetrable mindset, i was strong and happy through things that made those around me crumble. i've had my cracks found, new ones chiseled, and all of them wedged open until i am now the same pile of rocks and rubble. i am really, really late to this party, because i was strong, and yet ultimately here i am. among all of those people i told to pick themselves up. the irony.
>>84239187saint Augustine shared the view on privation of evil with you, but I still believe that it is easier to use it as a word for describing it, remember that you are a good person and don't forget that
As someone who is going through months-long recovery for childhood trauame its' not a cope, but it will feel like a cope because you're using coping mechanisms. One of the biggest problems is telling people now how I feel. They either don't care, don't remember, or in one case can't share what I feel.
>>84239187It sounds like your trauma was buried pretty deep. It doesn't make you weak for having uncovered it. There's nothing wrong with that. You deserve help now, too. By the way, are you a writer or musician? You express yourself very well.
>>84239208 i try my best in the ways that i think will make others around me think i am good. sometimes i feel like a fraud for this, but ultimately isn't it the same thing as being good? am i a bad person if doing good things was calculated?>>84239221> One of the biggest problems is telling people now how I feel. They either don't care, don't remember, or in one case can't share what I feel.i struggle with these the most myself. whatever our traumas were, however they manifest, its the results that prove to me we are feeling the same thing and it is real, and everyone else around us just appends an attribute, oblivious to the depth we have lived. i hope things get better for you.>>84239235>It sounds like your trauma was buried pretty deepif our mind is an onion it has seeped slowly from the surface to the core, like acid, even to the woody root bit i'm never sure if i should cut up nice and fine or toss.>are you a writer or musician? You express yourself very well.this made me smile! i am none of those things, i write for those i care about and i pretend i am the musician of the pieces i indulge in. i suppose sometimes i'm both if i'm allowed to pretend a little bit.
>>84239332>onionGood analogy, but the mind can heal and regrow. Maybe it's like growing a new onion from a seed.>if I'm allowed to pretendI think you have real potential, and it would be worth pursuing something like that if it interests you enough. I would love to read or listen to a full project you made.
Hey rabbi, watcha larpin?
>>84239427>Good analogy, but the mind can heal and regrow. Maybe it's like growing a new onion from a seed.if i wasn't this onion i wouldn't be me!>I think you have real potential, and it would be worth pursuing something like that if it interests you enough. I would love to read or listen to a full project you made.maybe i'll have to write something then, i've entertained the idea a lot. i have a story about a bird girl that's been floating around in my head for years and years now. i don't even know what happens yet, i just want to write it.
>>84239570>if i wasn't this onion i wouldn't be me!True. Analogies are hard!>maybe i'll have to write something thenNice! You could try doing research on philosophy or the hero's journey, or something. That would probably give you the juice you need to start mapping the story out.
>>84239081>Lived traumaLike real fucked up shit for years or are you another fag who thinks not growing up as a rich kid pretty much "makes your life traumatic"
>>84239632i'll make sure to write about it here, if our paths cross?>>84239640the former. i did grow up a poor kid but i think my life was rich with fruitful memories and experiences even if they were simple.
>>84239081It will catch up with you.I thought I was smart enough to cope and function for years, then one day I was suddenly pinning a coworker to the wall by the throat because they did something bullies used to do in school and I just acted without thinking. After that it just sorta collapsed and I couldn't hold it together anymore. Just started crying at random for no reason, panic attacks if I go outside, if anyone raises their voice I'm shouting in their face before I know what's happened. The longer you just ignore it the worse shit gets.
>>84239160>Traditional antidepressants can't even beat a placebo in the short termEven Kirsch found a small, consistent effect from SSRIs in his meta analyses. If you're going to attack SSRIs, at least be correct in what you're saying.
>>84239852>I'll make sure to write about it here, if our paths cross?I guess you could use a tripcode so I can check the archive if I miss it? I'm not sure what the best move is, but I do lurk here a bit.
>>84239949Over what period of time? As you can see from the graph I posted earlier, fluoxetine gives the same results over an eight-week period.
>>84240083>Over what period of time?They're pooled datasets so the periods of time are not consistent, but see generallyhttps://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045
>>84240099>the periods of time are not consistentThen how exactly does that contradict what I said? I never said traditional antidepressants had no effect in the long run.
>>84240233>Traditional antidepressants can't even beat a placebo in the short termThe "even" implies that they also don't beat placebo in the long run. Either way, they do beat placebo in the short term when the depression severity is high.
>>84240286>The "even" implies that they also don't beat placebo in the long run.The emphasis was on *placebo*, not *short term*. Hope that clears that up.>Either way, they do beat placebo in the short term when the depression severity is high.Show me where in the meta analysis it says that.
>>84239081I'm kinda in a similar place to you right now. Most days I don't feel like anything except a long list of symptoms and maladaptive coping mechanisms. I worry I can't become anything more than trauma, it's all I can think of most the time. I hope we can both heal anon.. I'm still optimistic recovery is possible
>>84240317>Hope that clears that upSure, but now we agree that they work in the long run and the short term so what's your issue exactly?>Show me where in the meta analysis it says that.So, you didn't read it at all then? It very clearly states the trial lengths and the longest was 8 weeks which, interestingly, is the same length of what you presented.
>>84239081It's possible to recover and move on from anything so long as you aren't a weak person who is obsessed with having the victim card in your hands at all times. The fact you're asking leads me to believe the shoe fits though.
>>84240375>Sure, but now we agree that they work in the long run and the short term so what's your issue exactly?When did I agree to that?>So, you didn't read it at all then? It very clearly states the trial lengths and the longest was 8 weeks which, interestingly, is the same length of what you presented.I didn't read it. I only skimmed through it. Can you quote it, screenshot it, etc.?
>>84240517>Can you quote it, screenshot it, etc.?In order to generalize the findings of the clinical trial to a larger patient population, FDA reviewers sought a completion rate of 70% or better for these typically 6-wk trials. Only four of the trials reported reaching this objective, and completion rates were not reported for two trials. Attrition rates were comparable between drug and placebo groups. Of those trials for which these rates were reported, 60% of the placebo patients and 63% of the study drug patients completed a 4-, 5-, 6-, or 8-wk trial. Thirty-three trials were of 6-wk duration, six trials were 4 wk, two were 5 wk, and six were 8 wk. Patients were evaluated on a weekly basis. For this meta-analysis, the data were taken from the last visit prior to trial termination.
>>84239081>is it possible to recover from months to years of lived traumaDoubtful. I've been working on myself for ten years and my life is still shit
>>84240643does that mean others cant
>>84240552Okay, that's definitely within the range I would consider to be short-term. Fair enough. What were the results?
>>84241204>What were the results?Read the conclusion perhaps?
>>84241230Looks like there is a slight difference between a placebo and the drugs used (which I'm assuming are traditional antidepressants). I wonder why that doesn't show up on the study mentioned in the graph I posted. Maybe fluoxetine is outperformed by other traditional antidepressants.
>>84241310The graph you posted isn't separating patients out by their depression index scores. For whatever reason, the placebo effect is weaker in highly depressed people (according to the meta analysis, anyway), but the SSRIs maintain their efficacy. I agree that ketamine or psychedelics have much stronger effects though and would personally would with ketamine over prozac any day.
>>84241366Yeah, ssri's do make a slight difference. My main point was about psychoplastogens, so I have no problem conceding that I was slightly underestimating ssri's.
>>84241423>psychoplastogensInterestingly, one of the proposed mechanisms through which SSRIs work is their ability to stimulate neurosteroid production. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19157982/The classic psychedelics do similar I believe, which is why they reduce neuroinflammation. A lot of depression seems to be caused by HPA axis dysfunction. There's a vicious cycle between HPA axis dysfunction <-> neuroinflammation.
>>84241464Ssri's are steroidogens, yes. Psychoplastogens are not. They rapidly induce neuroplasticity.
>>84241688Steroids do too through the reduction of inflammation, it's not as direct or rapid but it is what happens and the outcome is of the same direction
>>84241719I see. That would explain how ssri's are able to cure depression, though on a much less effective and a much slower scale.
>>84239081>do i move on and flip a coin on recovery or submit to a vicious and unforgiving carrot on a stick?Stop being so dramatic and black-and-white and think about it logically. You lose nothing either way. A carrot on a stick is just another word for hope, 'false hope' is an oxymoron 'false hope' is still hope. Even in the worst hypothetical case where recovery is impossible (its not) your choice is between wallowing in despair or at least putting up a reasonable fight. Fight.
>>84241837>false hope is still hopeIt's ill-founded hope. There is a meaningful distinction between hope and false hope.
>>84239081>months to years of lived traumasuch as?
>>84241892having everything i had assured to me, and cared deeply, deeply about, stripped away one by one, reaching far and deep at every leaf in the tree plucking each and every thing away. things that made me happy and confident, things that made me feel accomplished, things that made me feel like i didn't need anything else. i had them dangled in front of me and promised for years, things big and small but i cherished immensely. i felt i had something unique and rare, i cherished it so, i did not care for much of these things until they had been embellished and promised. i could have been happy with scraps. i could have been happy with just a soul.as time went on chapter by chapter, i'd have things robbed from me, things i accepted and forgave invariably without request, out of love i can only describe as terminal, from its inception to death. it came it batches, history rhyming. eerily familiar. the hurt.without request, without request, i did it on my own. forgive me.i was manipulated for years, despite my expression of humanity, that i could love what was simple, what was imperfect, what was as flawed and crumpled as myself. my tree was plucked barei forgave and made my first request, to help me heal and help me find leaves again.i was then met with an axethe axe forgets ^_^
>>84241876Go try, then fail. Then do it again, because it means you didn't do it right the first time. Struggle onto eternity if you have to. Its still a more dignified and meaningful life than capitulating to despair. You know deep down I am right. The only thing you lose is an excuse.
>>84242181but the tree remembers. you should write, anon. you've a way with words. it can be a cathartic way to express yourself.
>>84242202This either assumes the goal is necessarily possible to begin with, or else merely fetishizes the act of trying.
>>842423371. You don't know if the goal is necessarily possible to begin with. You will never know if it was "impossible" in fact, the only way you will know whether it was possible or impossible is if you try and eventually succeed, at which you will know that it was possible. You will never be able to rule out hope.2. The choice you have then is taking some nonzero chance of improvement versus "accepting" an absolutely guaranteed, 100% chance of no improvement. Even with all the unknowns, the basic calculus of it dictates what the logical action is.If you're too tired to try, then rest. But the potential won't go anywhere, it will always torment you until you try and succeed. Like dirt under your nails. Don't die standing still.
>>84242376If it's impossible to know whether it's possible or not, then not trying is just as good of a method as trying.
>>84242474You know you typed gonkshit and you know it.Anyways, my point isn't to castigate your lack of effort, despair is tempting, comfortable even, just don't delude yourself into thinking it's logical.
>>84242495The point is that you shouldn't delude yourself into holding hope, no matter how unfounded. You can have a rational view of hope without decrying all optimism.
>>84242521Hope is a feeling, not a diagnosis. In my mind, its entirely different from a realistic outlook, not that there isn't one for your recovery.And I state a simple truth, you have to try and fail, every inventor and scientist didn't know if their theories held credence or not until they engaged in exploration and tested it against the real world. It's not a satisfying answer, but you'll just have to keep exploring and fighting even if blind.
>>84242549Feelings are reactions to previous cognitions, not sourceless whims. Scientists and inventors didn't grope blindly in the dark: They tried something that they knew was possible, plausible, and probable enough to merit their efforts. They did not take it on faith alone. Faith is a lie: There is only reason and conviction.
