Today is Good Friday. Today Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah/the Christ, died for your sins.
Jesus seems like a nice guy, but the demon worshipped by Abraham isn't real and I curse the torah and all of Abraham's descendants.
>>84280769Are you a Gnostic Christian?
>>84280769You curse yourself.
>>84280762It's also my birthday :D
>>84280762I love Jesus (the mods muted me for saying that)
>>84280773No, I'm a deist.>>84280774I'm not a brown jew so I'm not descended from Abraham.He's a fictional character anyway.
>>84280792Father Abraham had many sons, and many sons had Father AbrahamI AM ONE OF THEMAND SO ARE YOU >:)so let's all praise the lord
>>84280762God bless you op and thank you for the reminder
>>84280797Of course! 4chan should become a Christian website.
>>84280815beloved church, we shall boldly live and die for Jesus Christ herelet His righteousness cover us all
>>84280762When he died I had not been born yet
>>84280762Well, he got better. Is that a sacrifice?
>had dream where i was in a burger bar with a cute girl and we kept having to tell the rest of the group we were with to stop ordering beers or we're going to be late, then I sort of playfully nipped her shoulder across the table and I bit the rest of one of those little plastic tags that was leftover in her shirt and then she took it from between my teeth with her teeth and then made a joke about it being plastic whiskers and then right as we were about to kiss I woke up>immediately prayed for something similar to be real, just an intimate date at a burger barThanks Jesus.
>cult leader becomes a nuisance to the Roman government occupying Provincia Judea>warned to cut the shit, didn't stop>gets executed by the cops>"uh, I meant to do that... because I'm immortal...I uh, will be back in a thousand years... yeah."How did this sand rat charlatan go from pest to supreme god over all Europa in 1300 years? That's the only interesting story here.
>>84281749Maybe because he is really the Messiah? >In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.>Isaiah 11:10
>>84281529Jesus's sacrifice was a propitiation to the Father. You're equivocating on the word sacrifice. It wasn't like what a soldier does in war when laying down their life. It was an act of atonement. The resurrection is victory. Death is swallowed up.
>>84281521"Before i formed you in the womb, i knew you" -jeremiah 1:5
>>84282428>Jesus's sacrifice was a propitiation to the Father.If God is so perfect, shouldn't He have just gotten over everything without murdering His son?>The resurrection is victory.If Jesus came back to life anyways, then how was it anything besides an inconvenience? You don't call it a "victory" when you trip and don't fall.>Death is swallowed up.Then why do people die?
>>84280762I'm going to watch Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ today instead of attending the stations of the cross. Everything I do, you can imagine the Savior facepalming in dismay. It really must be like a shepherd wasting an entire day trying to get a retarded sheep back into the flock.
>>84283965>If God is so perfect, shouldn't He have just gotten over everything without murdering His son?God is perfect Justice itself, he cannot simply ignore any injustices done against him or he would, by definition, be unjust and therefore not God. Satisfaction must be made. >If Jesus came back to life anyways, then how was it anything besides an inconvenience? You don't call it a "victory" when you trip and don't fall.Well Jesus didn't merely come back to life as in simple resuscitation, like Lazarus. He was raised in glory, and put on the same glorified body the saints will have in the general resurrection of the dead at the end of time. Glorified bodies are immortal, incorruptible, subtle, glorious, luminous, and in union with God through supernatural grace. This was the entire point of redemption. Not only did God come to restore human nature to what is was like before Eden, but in fact he came to do greater, so that in the resurrection we will be more glorious an angelic than Adam and Eve were. Sin and death are defeated in this way.>Then why do people die?Because humans are still born with the stain of original sin. Through baptism, this stain is lifted. Death then becomes no longer a punishment, but attains us victory through merit! Christ took the weapon of Satan, death, and completely conquered it for himself, so that now those who are baptized into Christ need no longer fear it, knowing that they can attain a better reward through it as in martyrdom or via other supererogatory acts, and eventually the complete cessation of death at the end of time after the final judgement. "I am the Living One. I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." (Revelation 1:18)
>>84284115You realize that all this comes off as schizo rambling? The core of all Abrahamic religions is supposed to be "be kind," and if you don't understand that, you'll end up obfuscating the point.
>>84284172This is theology 101.
>>84284216No, you're getting into Apologetics, which is Theology 340. It's a 300-level class and you clearly haven't taken it.
>>84284216Nta.>This is theology 101.I was raised Christian, Catholic. I did my catequesis, my communion, my baptism, my confession, etc. I have always felt some kind of resonance with the message of Christ and the Church. Even though not the most devoted, I was/am a believer.Then, because of some personal experiences, I started to look more into the history of it all and the Jewish side of the theology. I realized that Christianity is EXTREMELY circular. It relies upon certain assumptions that aren't found in the original meanings of the texts. Some beautiful stories, tropes, wisdom and lessons can be taken from it. But as a theology itself, it insists upon itself way too much. Jesus never claimed to be God. He didn't have to for his message to make sense. Platonism plagues the new testament. "Original sin" isn't a thing. Don't even get me started on protestantism and it's hypocrisy. "Sola scriptura" is complete bullshit. I wish these topics were able to be duscussed without people seething, but most people will boil at these words.
>>84284264>I realized that Christianity is EXTREMELY circular.Well, whatcha gonna do? So's everything else. Language represents logic, which is built on axioms, which are unprovable. Any system gets absurd when you get to the bottom.
>>84284264>Jesus never claimed to be God.He absolutely did, anon. He actually goes quite in depth about the perichoresis of the holy Trinity during the Farewell Discourse (John Ch 14 - 17), and, speaking in the hypostasis of divine Wisdom, illustrates his unique relationship as God the Son to God the Father (Matthew 11:25-27).
>>84280762God plays favorites. The fact that incels exist prove this
>>84284288No, you aren't getting it. Christianity presents it's narrative as the truth. But it requires things that aren't found in the source texts, it creates a different theology while claiming to be the same thing or the continuation of the previous thing. It being circular makes it so there is no space for the original intent of the text to pass through. This is an internal contradiction inside that very circle. There are several of these. Most Christians can't even explain the trinity, to thei point that trying to do so is a heresy. The trinity isn't even found in the texts, it was just added by the church. "It's hidden in the meaning" is just a bs excuse.
>>84284256What is not to your liking?
>>84284335Jesus didn't die to make God less angry. God is the same for all time. Jesus died to fulfill the covenant that God and Abraham made together: That people would follow God, and God would be with people. If either of them broke the covenant, they would die. Humans stopped following God, so God became human and ended the agreement.
>>84284320No, he didn't. You don't understand the theology under which Jesus and the Old Testament operated. All through the Old Testament God communicates with humans through angels literally meaning "messengers", these angels are able to bear God's message because they have been authorized with the possession of the Divine Name. Holding the possession of the Divine Name allows anyone to act with the authority of God without being God himself. This is what Jesus did. "If you have seen me, you have seen the father", doesn't mean "I am God", because if Jesus is holding the Divine Name, he holds God's authority, although not his full power and command. This is why the "trinity" is unnecessary and not found in the text whatsoever. >before Abraham, I AM. This also isn't Jesus claiming he is God. He is saying that before Abraham was, God was there, that He is more important. The tetragramaton translates to "I AM" in some cases. The whole trinity is a translation error. This isn't trying to undermine Christianity. This gives a whole new meaning to the text, and to the power of The Word and language in general, which goes extremely well with all Jewish beliefs, which makes it way more likely to be the real meaning. It goves insights into the actual theology.
>>84284325You also aren't getting it. There is no truth that can be found through language that cannot be undermined by pointing out the assumptions.
>>84284430I understand your point. I am not interested in it. And it's not relevant to my point. I am saying the assumptions contradict the original it is claiming as it's own. I am saying that these assumptions have no place in here.
>>84284451Oh, OK. Would you like to explicitly state what those contradictions are? If there's an obvious non-sequitur from the assumptions, lead with that.
>>84284398>the "trinity" is unnecessaryThe bible itself calls God's spirit "sevenfold" which could mean a heptad instead of a trinity, or it could just mean "complete and holy." Psalm 82 says, "You are 'gods.'"
>>84284498The trinity isn't in the text. Jesus didn't claim to be God. The covenant hasn't ended. Sola scriptura is bs. Original sin wasn't inherited by Adam and Eve's descendants. Baptism isn't meant to cleanse us of original sin. Baptism was done ritually many time through one's life to cleanse us of our sins, since it was understood that we all sin. Etc. The Church changed the meaning of the text and cew
>>84284535nta but just curious if you don't believe in sola scriptura what do you think the other authority is for what is true? the catholics and orthodox have their magisterium/hierarchy but obviously you don't believe in that
>>84284533That isn't the bible saying that God is sevenfold. The number seven is symbolic and found throughout all the bible generally representing something divine. Saying that the spirit is sevenfold is a way to emphasize its holyness. It also draws on the previous sayings of Isaiah saying that the spirit of God in all it's fullness has seven attributes. Still one. The "spirit" is the same as the "messenger" or whoever carries the Name.Wait until you find out that there's passages of the Bible that aren't monotheistic.
>>84284535>The trinity isn't in the text.An incomplete argument is not necessarily incorrect.>Jesus didn't claim to be God. Nor did he stop people from saying he was.>The covenant hasn't ended.The Abrahamic one? How so?>Sola scriptura is bs.If language is incomplete, then this is necessarily true.>Original sin wasn't inherited by Adam and Eve's descendants. Agreed on this point too>"The parents eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge">As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverbEzekiel 18:2-3 (similar Jeremiah 31:29-30)>Baptism isn't meant to cleanse us of original sin. Baptism was done ritually many time[s] through one's life to cleanse us of our sins, since it was understood that we all sin.If Jesus had no sin, then why was he baptized?
>>84284570Did you even read the second half of the post? It was such a short post, and you didn't even read half of it.
>>84284563I think Sola Scriptura had the right idea. But it is bullshit because, instead of actually being faithfull to the text, it started kn third base by saying that the teachings of the early church "were implicit in the text all along" when that isn't true whatsoever. Not even to mention the myriad differences between translations and geographical traditions. Luther was working with 1500 years worth of manipulation. I also believe that the idea that the church could serve as an interpretative body makes sense. But their "divinely appointed authority" is bullshit. Rabbis are those who have spent many years of study and thus gained an authority through the acquisition of knowledge, much like the clerics of the church. But their decentralized nature makes it prone to inner conflicts and wildly different interpretations. No real "peer review". So idk. I might just read and make something for myself and then study what others have said and compare.
>>84284578Yes. But I assumed you were pointing to that from a trinitarian perspective not acknowledging yhe polytheistic nature of the passage. That's not the only psalm that talks about many gods. >>84284574>Nor did he stop people from saying he wasThis is where apologists start pointing out that something isn't 100% impossible to mean that it actually happened. It makes way more sense, given the theology under which Jesus and his followers were working on that my claim is way more likely to be accurate. >The Abrahamic one? How so?Jesus was talking about a coming apocalypse. Even in his own words, not one letter or one dot from the law will be abolished until it has been completed. The end of days hasn't happened, therefore the law hasn't been fullfilled lr abolished. So the covenant still stands. >his death and resurrection fulfilled the covenant.God never sook to "end" the covenant. The Law and the covenant are eternal and binding. If humans break it, they stray from the path, but the path is always open to be returned to. There is no "fulfilling". And those who have agreed to honor it, are eternally bound to do so. >If Jesus had no sin, then why was he baptized?I am not sure about him being sinless. But, even if he was, it's generally understood to be a symbolic action. Purity laws were extremely important and common in their society at the time. Some traditions still hold ritual baptisms to this very day. But if a baby is born sinless, why are they baptized? You agreed that we don't inherit original sin.
>>84284691>Even in his own words, not one letter or one dot from the law will be abolished until it has been completed.That doesn't mean that the old covenant is valid. It means that you still have to follow the Torah under the new covenant. The old covenant was invalidated by sinless death for that purpose.
>>84280762Didn't he come back like 2 days later and isn't he also god? That doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice
>>84284710>Torah under the new covenantThat's an oxymoron. The Torah IS the law of the old covenant. They are the same thing. You don't follow the 613 commandments of the Torah either, so it's still being "changed" under this idea. Also, to your point about Jesus never chastising anyone for calling him God. That is also in line with the attributes of someone who bears the divine name, and something that is done several times throughout the old testament. To put it in a more common example, Trump is the president of the United Stated. He is the US's representative to the world, to talk to Trump is to talk to the entire United States, even if he isn't literally every single individual US citizen. If Jesus was in possession of the Divine Name, he was acting as God's representative on earth, meaning to stand in jis presence was to stand in the presence of God, even if Jesus wasn't actually God.
>>84280762I appreciate that. He's a real one for it
>>84282194>Jewish prophecy>fulfilled hundreds of km away in places they never heard of>1500 years after it was writtenNostradamus was more accurate than that random "anointed one" prophecy that the Jews themselves don't even acknowledge.
>>84280780Happy birthday, robot!Now listen to this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNXDORibqkE
>>84284932IP grabber link, do not click.
