>incels notice society horrifically mistreats them based on their looks>incels notice women treat men who act like predators well bc they're hot>incels notice women use "the ick" to bash men for not being stoic brutes always 1 bad day away from a murder-suicideBut then the solution they found is to>bash women for their looks>engage in pointless gender war nonsense>become far-right>badly imitate chad behavior>reinforce all the masculine stereotypes that harm menThis approach also hasn't gotten them anything except justification for their hatred via extremely bad optics.
>>85703672>I should be able to kick sand in your face every day, and you should just thank me for itSociopath reasoning
>>85703672What is it you propose? Will the people who treated incels badly before incels became more standoffish change if incels stopped behaving like that?Actual khv's aside, what does it say if even normal men are unable to get either quality or quantity in relationships. How do they benefit from playing fair?
>>85703672>Its okay when i bully the nerd but the teacher needs to expel them the second they start fighting back and winning.
>>85703722Didn't say that. I understand lashing out, but it's obviously not been good for anyone.>>85703727Ideally, incels act like respectful, pitiable people who could've easily been the life of your average normie if they weren't so fortunate, or vice versa. The issue is practically zero incels are pitiable, so it's hard to argue that people should empathize with incels. It's a similar to struggle all marginalized people throughout history. If you're not a perfect victim, then you deserved it in the eyes of the masses, so then be a perfect victim.Normal young men don't really act even remotely similar to incels. I don't think they will anytime soon either, at least in the west. Wdym by playing fair>>85703758Incels aren't winning, though, and the fighting isn't helping them. People feel more justified in marginalizing incels the more ridiculously antisocial they become.
>incels noticeThat's wrong though. Incels may believe something that retarded but they are wrong.
>>85703930>zero incels are pitiable, so it's hard to argue that people should empathize with incelsWhat are you saying exactly? Whenever some normy goes on a rant using words like "pity" "entitlement" "narcissism" "deserve" it is never clear what their moral standpoint is exactly.When they were 13 and being ostracized were they "pitiable"?Did they cease to be "pitiable" the moment they went online, found a community like this and said "heh, silly foids never leave their abusive boyfriends" or something? Because saying "foid" is the deepest most evil bigotry ever?Was this the point of no return? Did they became disgusting little evil nasty incelarinos from this point on? Or were they born that way?
>>85703930>Ideally, incels act like respectful, pitiable people who could've easily been the life of your average normie if they weren't so fortunate, or vice versaA lot of them did that before they were treated badly. The bad behavior comes after getting rejected by society, afterall. > It's a similar to struggle all marginalized people throughout history. If you're not a perfect victim, then you deserved it in the eyes of the masses, so then be a perfect victim.Minority oppressed groups only improved their position by banding together with other groups. 2% of a population is unable to demand the rights they want unless they work with other groups who want more rights. It's how intersectionality works, why feminists works together with sexual, religious, and ethnic minorities. I dont think incels as a group can find such allies, they are the new group to blame, which is another tactic minority groups use to gain a better position, beat down on another one. >Normal young men don't really act even remotely similar to incels. I don't think they will anytime soon either, at least in the west. Wdym by playing fairThat's what I am saying. Normal men play by the rules, arent like those bitter incels, and their personal lives suck ass. They dont have the social lives they want, the relationships, and it's getting worse. They play fair, by the rules, and yet they are still subjected to the reality you described in op. They arent "hypocritical" about it, but they still get passed over by the brutes.There is no incentive. The real difference between incels and normal guys is their behavior, not the rewards they get.
>>85703672i'm not a retard so instead of all that i write down all the times i've been slighted by women so that when i glow up (i'm tall and have a pretty face, i'm just broke and in bad shape) i will cook up the most soul-rending acts of betrayal and humiliation.i can't help it, whenever i talk to a girl for a while and we start getting closer i start having thoughts of how to emotionally hurt her. there's 0 chance of me having a normal relationship for maybe the first 10 or so next girls i date. maybe after that i'll be satisfied and can settle down.
>>85703980>Handsome, assertive men who err on the manipulative side arent the most successful with women>Halo effect doesnt exist
>>85703980Incelbros we are winning the hearts and minds of normies, with almost 60% of zoomers being incels we have the support of the common folx just like a vietkong insurgent did amongst the villagers of the countryside, the roastieindustrialcomplex has allowed hoeflation to spiral out of control to the point that even cityshilickers have noticed the growing rot of society and colapse of industries like clubs and marriage venues.
I don't know why people are bashing you when you're right.
>>85703930>Incels aren't winningDepends on your defintion, yes it wont magically help or be a solution. But its better than lying there and just taking it. Regardless of the choice they make theyll be treated the same more or less. So just enjoy the ride at this point.https://youtu.be/31GCvvfIZOA
>>85704039Once you're an adult and talking about how women don't deserve rights or that the government should provide a gf for you or that you hate women, etc., then you lose pitiable status. They're obviously not born that way. There's no objective standard, and for the record, I'm not even saying you shouldn't empathize or pity hateful people, but given how society treats men, there's very little patience for a male-centric problem usually involving hating women. It's also fair to criticize the double standard. Radfems talk about hating men which is patently ridiculous and should be shamed.>>85704043I'm talking about in how they interact with the world or online after being an adult incel. Obviously they are hateful for a reason, but they should stop.I think men in general are in crisis in the developed world, and incels absolutely could be part of the response. This is part of a broader problem and the redpill griftosphere was the epitome of this.The antisocial behavior of incels will mane normal people hate you, and the behavior is done to cope with being unlovable. A guy who's gone a few too many months without scoring a date won't suddenly benefit from talking about hypergamy or something. I'm not saying like being nice to women is how you get sex but rather if you portray a male problem while hating women, you lose automatically.>>85704046If you're pretty, you can't be an incel, sorry.>>85704075>60% of zoomers being incelsHopelessly delusional.>>85704176There have been pitiable incels who have made a positive example to normies. The only representation that gets out there, though, almost always, is some incel shooter or generally antisocial forum posts or /r9k/ posts. One issue is that if an incel becomes famous, he will unbecome an incel very quickly, but still, there needs to be some form of incel representation that isn't just the incel.is twitter guy & co.
>>85704065>Handsome, assertive men who err on the manipulative side arent the most successful with womenThey aren't.>Halo effect doesnt existIt doesn't.
>>85704075Incels are at most 0.001% of males. They have never been anything but a tiny fringe cult on the internet and will never be anything more.
>>85704310>If you're pretty, you can't be an incel, sorry.i'm teetering on the edge of homelessness and am mentally unstable. it doesn't matter how pretty you are, girls despise losers. i'm a monkey to them. i've seen a girl that was interested completely switch up overnight when she found out through her faggot friend how broke i am.i'm being taught over and over again how women act when it comes to anything romantic, i can't even look them in the eye now outside of serious settings. there's a chance that i won't be able to enact my post-glowup self healing journey of infidelity and emotional abuse just because by then i'll hate them too much to pretend, even as a "chad".
>>85704382If a man has to pay a woman in any capacity, even if it's a 3.50buck coffee he is a incel. The degree to which he engages in prostitution depends but the more attractive he is the cheaper it becomes while only 0.001 of men get sex completely for free.
>>85703672>justificationThat's not how it works. Society is in the wrong. Anything it does is unjust by default.>>85703758This, fuck these worthless cunts.>>85703980That's entirely correct and you're a lying piece of shit.>>85704075Unfortunately many zoomers are simpy as fuck despite also being incels. It's really weird and I don't understand why they do that.
>>85704310>once youre an adult and talking about how women dont deserve right then you lose pitiable statusliterally who cares about being pitied. pity means nothing. if there was any shared sense of social responsibility or any real people who care or pity for the kinds of people who become incels, then they would have never become that in the first place. women have this idea that people care for them and that they deserve things or that people pity them. you are the center of the world and live on easy mode. pity isnt real for anybody else, so yes i will continue advocating for rights to be removed from the cheating whorish parasitic street monkey branching creatures known as females who never once contributed to society, no reason they should be expected to vote on how it works.
>>85704310>I'm talking about in how they interact with the world or online after being an adult incel. Obviously they are hateful for a reason, but they should stopBut again, what does it help? They got rejected before, they get rejected when they push back. They are embittered now. Noone actually cares about their happiness or else they would offer incentives. It doesnt matter. >A guy who's gone a few too many months without scoring a date won't suddenly benefit from talking about hypergamy or something. I'm not saying like being nice to women is how you get sex but rather if you portray a male problem while hating women, you lose automaticallyYes but the opposite doesnt offer them anything. Trying to be more like a "normal guy" doesn't offer them anything in the form of relationships. The proposal is "shut up about your problems" and "don't be mean in return".
>>85704377>>Handsome, assertive men who err on the manipulative side arent the most successful with women>They aren't.>>Halo effect doesnt exist>It doesn't.Beautiful people actually get treated like hobos o algo
>>85704419>I've been rejected onceDoesn't contradict what I said.>>85704516The justification matters because it's how society shapes their views. It's not entirely rational, far from it, but incels make it very easy for their marginalization to continue forever because of how they act. There needs to be some sort of counter-movement or major representation that rejects the general mantra of incels. You can counter radfem hatred of men, expose hypocrisies, even criticize promiscuity, but once you step into ape-tier misogyny, you've lost any normal person.>>85704605>pity means nothingI'm not saying pity => you're cured now, but pity matters when it comes to society taking male problems seriously. If you're unpitiable, then nobody will take your problems seriously. Society pities countless things that are unbelievably hard to fix and that almost can't be fixed, e.g. homelessness, but at least there's effort into solving the problem or at least people are less likely to treat that group of people like they're subhuman.>>85704691Ideally, incels would be seen as just men who just didn't have the same opportunities as most other men due to some combination of failed social development and unlucky facial structure. They would be humanized. Ugly people in general need to be humanized. Lonely people need to be humanized in a way that's not like Joker/Taxi Driver.>The proposal is "shut up about your problems" and "don't be mean in return".Not getting a gf handed to you by the state just because you don't hate women doesn't mean you can't complain about your problems. You just shouldn't do it in a way that is antisocial.
>>85704863>There needs to be some sort of counter-movement or major representation that rejects the general mantra of incels. Actually society just needs to be totally restructured around serving the needs of the people who actually contribute to society i.e. not normalfags and roasties.>you've lost any normal personNobody fucking cares, normal people are retarded.
>>85704875How do the <1% men who are incels actually uphold society?
>>85704863>Ideally, incels would be seen as just men who just didn't have the same opportunities as most other men due to some combination of failed social development and unlucky facial structure. They would be humanized. Ugly people in general need to be humanized. Lonely people need to be humanized in a way that's not like Joker/Taxi Driver.I agree but it didn't happen before incels became bitter so why do you think this will change? >Not getting a gf handed to you by the state just because you don't hate women doesn't mean you can't complain about your problems. You just shouldn't do it in a way that is antisocial.That's not necessarily what I implied. In your op post you stated that incels get mistreated because of their looks, and that hot people's flaws get ignored. That brutes get respect. The only thing people offer incels is getting treated badly, so there is no incentive for an incel to be nice in the first place. Either they accept the rejection, and therefore reject the entire society, or they try to become the brute assholes women do date. The burden lies with the ones who rejected the incels. Offer them a stake in the society you want them to stop deriding.
>>85703672>bash women for their looksWomen literally will curve you for not having any dating experiences. Women's dating standards have shifted in a shitty way so you get more toxic men. You got sexually frustrated men roaming around. Not woman beaters or misgoynsists >engage in pointless gender war nonsenseWomen standards are shit. Most men report to have an issue with it. Women literally don't care. So we will continue it. >become far-rightNot even incel related. This is just bullshit women will say if you're not left leaning in general. most dudes still report as left leaning lol. >badly imitate chad behaviorWomen still haven't put out anything solid to get men to be better men. The shit women spew out feed more into giving them ego boosts as opposed to them having more lenient standards on men. >reinforce all the masculine stereotypes that harm menAh yes. Even though women are the ones creating more toxic men. It's always the guys fault
>>85704863>If you're unpitiable, then nobody will take your problems seriouslyWe're already as miserable as can be and you're coming off your high horse to tell us that we need to be more miserable and beg for help that wasn't given to us.>IdeallyNobody can take this seriously. You can tell us how good certain ideals will be, but that doesn't mean what you're proposing will get us there.What makes you think that lying down and cowering is going to change anything? There are plenty of men who do that and don't get any help. Any organized movement by incels to solve the incel problem would be label by you as "problematic" for the sole fact that it talks about the problem at hand in real terms.That incels were created only in the wake of the sexual revolution and the modern dating market is hypergamic is something that goes against decades of social progress that championed these changes as "empowering". The only way we can talk about solving the male loneliness epidemic is if we start talking about the root causes, which will be "bigoted" by your standards. Even if you don't believe in these root causes, it's a problem that only affects men. But we live in an age where half the population believes we live in a "patriarchy" where a male disadvantage is ontologically impossible despite growing evidence to the contrary.
>>85704043Yeah niggers are totally perfect victims and not violent apes kek
>>85704382LMAO if you aren't 8/10 you aren't getting laid in 2026 unless she's huge.
>>85703672Women say they hate rapists, but literally go after men with the traits that are most likely to lead to rape...
>>85704897Because you're hilariously wrong about the number of men who are incels. It's over 60% of men now.
>>85703672damn that's a good point. foids saying kill all men is fine but how dare you have your own political opinions. oh wait you're still a cocksucker
OP got owned and left. At least he made an effort in the beginning to reply.
>>85704946>it didn't happen before incels became bitterWell it wouldn't be easy to change, certainly, but there is an examination now of the fall of masculinity/fall of men in general relative to women and the movements that have been tried have been widely recognized as failed, e.g. the redpill/manosphere movement. There needs to be some sort of community of reasonable incels people can see or some sort of outer movement with those people.>Offer them a stake in the society you want them to stop deridingWell they have to be seen as not antisocial to gain respect. Ugly people can't gain respect any other way besides convincing society to treat them better.>>85704967>Not woman beaters Well yeah, but I'm talking about the misogynists. I'm not even necessarily saying most incels are misogynists, but that's the perception, and only incels can change that by forming a counter-narrative/movement/community.>Women standards are shitWell that's not necessarily pointless. I think you should call out everyone for being superficial, and women do perpetuate unhealthy standards for masculinity all the time and should be shamed for it.>most dudes Vast, vast majority of young men have had sex before. Incels do have a perception of being far-right for a reason. There are an unbelievably number of posts about repealing the 19th amendment among other radical beliefs.>It's always the guys faultI never said this. Incels should be trying to counter-reinforce the masculine stereotypes that harm men, though, right?
>>85703672>blaa, blaaa, blaa, two wrongs don't make a rightThe alternative is what? White knight for women begging them to become traditional? The end goal being what? That maybe you get to be the nice guy that finishes last when she's a run through 30+ yr old? White knighting would only be worth it if at the end of it you get a hot 18yr old virgin, but you don't you just lose self respect
>>85705067>need to be more miserableNo. Incels act like abused dogs that are ready to bite anyone who gets within a 10ft radius of them. They need to be respectful and mature while being miserable to be perfect victims.>cowering That's not what I said. Writing shitty threads about how the civil war in 2 weeks will result in women losing their right to vote and then you can get all the sex slaves you want also is cowardice. Incels' antisocial beliefs are pretty transparently pure cope. You're not standing above anything or doing anything admirable. It's self-soothing behavior that actively makes everyone else hate you more.>Any organized movement by incels to solve the incel problem would be label by you as "problematic" As far as I'm aware, that literally hasn't been attempted without it also being transparently hyper-misogynistic.>despite growing evidence to the contraryWell the iron is hot for discussing female privilege and such. What do you think erasing the root cause would look like? You can be anti-promiscuity and normal people will agree with you.>>85705182Not even an attempt to respond to anything I said.>>85705191The vast majority of men under 30 have had sex. You have a completely unique definition of incel.>>85705206>foids saying kill all men is fine Never said this.>how dare you have your own political opinionsWhat? >>85705245>that finishes last when she's a run through 30+ yr old? Are you even an incel? Someone who's unlovable wants love. They don't demand someone who's not promiscuous. The issue is that promiscuity particularly for dating apps leads to an unhealthy dating scene.
>>85703672If you are ostracized and extruded from society then any interaction you have with that society will be represented as you being a canker. >bash women for their looks If they flattered women for their looks then they would be accused of being perfidious niceguys. >gender warIf we didn't criticize women's behavior, then we would be just the other side of the coin and be a longhoused redditor. >far right Meaningless term >imitate chad behavior If we doubled down on being incels, what changes? >reinforce stereotypes So you're mad that we don't want to fuck each other in the ass and cry into our beards? I don't get this one. >>85703930>Ideally, incels act like respectful, pitiable people who could've easily been the life of your average normie if they weren't so fortunate, or vice versa.I didn't know there was a victimized code of conduct to follow in ideal terms. >The issue is practically zero incels are pitiableCould it be that you just don't want to pity them?
>>85703672>Put effort into being kind>Get mistreatedPut no effort into being kind>Get mistreatedSo basically, you just want free slave labor, but emotional labor. Something that women cry about having to do and refuse to do most of the time for anybody except chad.That's a garbage offer and you should have known that already but obviously you're harboring an anti-incel mindset yourself.
>>85705206>oh wait you're still a cocksuckerhe literally is, used to whine about women not wanting him here, then he went prisongay, shacked up with a tranny a few years ago and started proselytizing to the incel menace about how they must be better men and vote far left or... he will continue being an obnoxious hypocritical sociopath online anywayvery sad stuff
>>85705287>Are you even an incel?Yes>Someone who's unlovable wants love. They don't demand someone who's not promiscuous.Can't have love without respect and if a woman doesn't respect herself enough to not be a whore, how can you expect her to respect you. How can you expect yourself to respect her either.
>>85703672your daily mass reply troon bait good saars
>>85703722Yeah Op is a narc. He got called out in https://boards.4chan.org/r9k/thread/85706100/how-to-not-get-a-restraining-order#bottom
>>85705287>respectful and matureThe thing about anonymity and the internet is that we can test this hypothesis. And it doesn't work. I've been respectful and mature, but I get scoffed at. In real life the culture is so debilitating to discussing male issues that you can't even bring it up. As a European I constantly see my politicians talk about the problems of women, but never of men. There is absolutely zero mention of how the programs meant to correct the gender gap in education went overdrive and not women are "outperforming" men in education. There is no mention to the economic malaise or the reversed gender pay gap. There is some talk of the declining birth rates but nobody is willing to touch on issues like abortion being related to it.>What do you think erasing the root cause would look like?I'm glad you asked. In order of roughly decreasing importance:>ban abortions except for life and healthAbortions have not only been a major contributor to shrinking generation sizes (see below), but encourage and legitimize sex a risk-free and attachment-free act.>end no-fault divorceThe destruction of the stability of marriage not only enables hypergamy, but massively disadvantages men.>end DEI based on gender (private sector and university)I couldn't care less for racial quotas here. Diversity hiring in STEM puts men at a disadvantage and women at a massive advantage. The gender pay gap needs to exist for stable relationships to form under marriage. Women earning more has only produced further stratification of the dating market.>teach women manners and penalize misandryThe amount of women I've seen that bark when asked out on a date is baffling. The attitude is only downstream of other factors, but it's nonetheless something that needs to be addressed.>end civil marriage; return control of marriage back to the churchLess important, but the introduction of marriage as less firm dedication is in part a major driver of the promiscuous dating market.
