Nigga its just flip flopping between integrals and derivitives mange
yes you need that shit to prove you know what you are doing and won't collapse a structure because you could not plug in the Tensile PSI over a polynomial load function because (example) bridges are stronger in some areas and weaker in others

>>16783505
What are you having problems with? You could just be getting filtered by a shit teacher.

>>16783525
The algebra part of finding derivatives. I can barely understand algebra, all these stupid gay rules dont make any sense

>>16783528
Such as?

>>16783505
Use computers. Desmos or any other graphing calculator spits out a number or curve pretty quick and engineers work with much looser upper bounds to account for shit happens margin.
and symbolab or other symbolic math can spit out exact answer quick too. There are like 5000 programs that do math of many levels. Understand cheats then understand the working principles if you are struggling with something.

>>16783518
How many engineers do that and how many load up a software package they enter data into it that returns the necessary analysis? Obviously someone has to understand things well enough to create the software but whether it's software or printed tables, much of the math is precalculated and abstracted away.

>>16783505
i use it almost every day
t. ee fag

>>16783528
I'm... not entirely positive what you mean by this.
Like are you confused by algebra in general but somehow made it to a Calc 1 course or is it specifically derivative rules that bother you?

In any case, I'd recommend Wrath of Math's Calc 1 playlists. My main complaint with him is he takes things almost condescendingly slow but if you're having genuine problems understanding something that may be a good thing for you.

Here's where he starts discussing derivatives using the limit definition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9sHw6zPQtY&list=PLztBpqftvzxUEqGGgvL3EuIQUNcAdmVhx&index=54

>>16783563
It depends quite a lot on your role and focus within engineering. In general, you will get much better performance if your brain can do the heavy lifting of finding the derivatives/integrals, and then just let the computer evaluate them.

I've been working in EE for almost 15 years now, and I've never seen someone actually use the symbolic math packages/libraries unless they were absolutely certain that the problem they were having didn't have an analytical solution.

> Obviously someone has to understand things well enough to create the software but whether it's software or printed tables, much of the math is precalculated and abstracted away.

This is funny. Good joke.

>>16783555
That's a terrible idea. I've never met a single working engineer who couldn't do the basic calculus work for their job. If I was hiring an engineer and I found out they couldn't integrate basic functions or take gradients, they would be immediately eliminated from my candidate pool.

>>16783790
But you are not middle management. You sounds like an unemployable math fag stuck in academia who didn't cash out on his credentials. Your highest scoring student does not pay attention to your lectures and their grades would go down if they ever did.
The time it take to open the document of integral cheat sheet from lmao.edu is the same time I get exact answer using these tools and some of them has step by step break down of how it is integrated. Even if I calculated by hand I'd still check by using these softwares. You can ask as much engineer you want, none has written integral or derivatives signs outside of personal enjoyments.
Management only cares about their hierarchy, events and arrangement.

>>16783866
I'm an r&d engineer for a spooky contractor. I make pretty decent money, and mathematical rigor is pretty important for my work.

It sounds more to me like you're stuck in one of the many non-technical bachelor's level engineering jobs that are basically just secretarial jobs with a requirement to know some scientific jargon.

Actual engineering work in any kind of r&d capacity requires some mathematical aptitude. You don't need to be fluent in abstract nonsense, but you should at least be able to deal with elementary multi-variable calculus, ODEs, linear algebra and some basic calc-based differential geometry.

>>16783872
No way you are an actual golem wanted to use your precious applitude and rigor for your employer.

>>16783505
If you struggle with calculus why even be an engineer? Engineering is largely mathematical applications of physics concepts. You won't have a ton of fun that way anon!

>>16783505
the good ones do

>>16783980
Because that way I can work in a CNC machine shop and get paid what machinists should be paid. and I can sit on my ass more and get paid salary not hourly

>>16783979
Can you try that reply again, this time in English? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

>>16783986
So, your plan is to study to become an engineer (which is a notoriously difficult thing to do if you go to a decent school) because of your own misconceptions about what being an engineer is like on a day to day basis?

>>16784006
You are a golem.

>>16783505
Git gud scrublord.

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civil engineer here. never used calculus since college. my job includes using arcgis to make some maps and then jerking off the rest of the day.

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>>16783790

You can delegate a lot of the math to software and you can delegate a lot of the software to the ai. Imagine writing math symbols with a pencil.

>>16784168
imagine relying on pre-thought mathematics, thus becoming eternally inflexible and dependent on better minds

>>16783505
we use a variation of calculus called differential equations. it's like hell difficulty calculus.

>>16783505
they use software that uses calculus

>>16783872
>for a spooky contractor
nintendo?

>>16783528
AOPS Prealgebra -> Introduction to Algebra -> Intermediate Algebra.
This is the only way. Gelfand’s books and Serge Lang’s Basic Mathematics won’t teach you the necessary algebra skills.

>>16783505
After you take a numerical methods clas you can just use algebra and matlab or python for everything

>>16783563
>just plug it into software lmao
And your retarded ass would not even know what you are plugging in

[ math ]gay thread op is a brainlet[ /math ]

[math]brainlet thread [/math]

Used for LaTeX test

>>16783505
Are you talking about just integrals in general because I just u subs and adding an x.
Or are you talk g about the nonsense where they add wt to the bounds to make it relate to a trigonometric circle somehow?

>>16784019
I'm a golem because I require that engineers who work on my projects actually know how to do basic calculus? What does that even mean? If people don't have the basic competency to actually do their mathematics properly and evaluate the work of others on the team, people can die. Bridges collapse, airplanes fall out of the sky, industrial mechanisms malfunction etc.

>>16784227
Sure, I am single handedly responsible for Nintendo's physics engines being jank. We'll go with that. It's really a pretty mundane job all things considered.

>>16783505
>filtered
NGMI

>>16784502
Public safety are safeguarded by rigorous testings, not rigorous math. If your product are one calculation away from public safety catastrophy, you are not doing engineering at all. "My math model/simulation checks out" convinces no one its safe to ship and buy the product and engineers are the most skeptical of math and a little less skeptical of prototypes and full scale tests. This is why I call you a golem whose truth are linguistically sealed on your forehead, not that you have a will of your own. What do RnD care about public safety anyways.

>>16783525
>You could just be getting filtered by a shit teacher.
he's definitely getting filtered by a shit teacher. calculus isn't even that complex really. not as a dunk or a flex or whatever, i'm sure other knowers will agree with me.
it feels like black magic bullshit when you're first learning it because how can you find the slope with just one point? that's nuts. and it's so hand-wavy with going to infinities and such.

if you have a professor that walks you through the historical reasons for why calculus came about, and what it is used for, it becomes more palatable. if you can build an intuition for what is going on rather than just treating it like a black box and just punching numbers in (ie: chain rule here, power rule here, etc.), then it starts to feel very cool.

>>16784685
> Public safety are safeguarded by rigorous testings, not rigorous math.

How do you think those tests are derived? Where do those tests and their metrics come from? How do we know what standards of evidence for the tests are sufficient, and against what baseline? The answer to that question is math and statistics. Mathematical modeling is used to determine the range of conditions required for testing, and the expected failure states. Without the modeling, you don't even know what to test for and what conditions would count as success or failure, because you have no insight into the relevant safety factors and occurrence of events.

> If your product are one calculation away from public safety catastrophy, you are not doing engineering at all.

Again, how do you think they determine safety factors? Yes, in practice lower level engineering and manufacturing software is used, but where do you think the relationships and functions used within this software comes from?

> "My math model/simulation checks out" convinces no one its safe to ship and buy the product and engineers are the most skeptical of math and a little less skeptical of prototypes and full scale tests.

You are quite confused about how the engineering process works. You never just "trust the model," no matter where it came from. In order to do any development at the application level at all, you have to quantify what problems need to be solved, what factors are relevant to those problems, and what the relationships are between those factors.

That quantification is a mathematical process. There are parts that have been automated to some level for lower-rank "dummy checking," but that automation required someone to actually do the math and figure out the problem themselves.

Without actually being able to do the math yourself, you don't even have a starting point to solving the problem, let alone evaluating how good your solution is relative to alternatives.

>>16784688
That literal nigger didnt even bother explaining grouping and simplifying limit functions with factors first. I had to teach myself. Its online too so I had nobody to ask why the limit of every function was 0.

>>16784216
I think if mathfags as shepherd dogs. They're built for that.

>>16784712
I'm sorry that your professor did a crappy job. I have faith that you can make it through and learn the subject in spite of this.

t. Some guy who is apparently a golem but still hopes you make it anyways.

>>16783505
Haha low fluid QR fag