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08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
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prev. >>16795282
>>
anons, I did it, I'm off to McMurdo station in october
>>
>>16798959
lucky. I wish I could do things.
>>
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No edition?
>>
>>16798966
we don't deserve an editon
>>
>>16798966
new mass saving measure
>>
Were there any viable alternative paths for spaceflight to progress realistically besides a partially reusable, but otherwise fairly normal, rocket like F9?
>>
>>16798959
Do they know you're coming?
>>
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>>16798966
I started with a retrofuturism magazine so post retro space stuff
>>
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>>16798975
is that supposed to be dragon? lmao so the shitty mockups are a spaceX tradition then
>>
>>16798977
>is that supposed to be dragon?
Basically. Early Falcon 5 crewed capsule concept
>>
>>16798972
yeah
>>
>>16798984
get us pictures of the ice wall while you're there anon.
>>
>>16798959
Congrats, staff or researcher?
>>
>>16798987
USAP contractor, not a scientist/PI.
I wonder if 4chan will be blocked on the network. Everyone gets 2.5gb of starlink data per week.
>>
>>16798989
>usap

He's going to there to study the aliens they have on ice I just know it
>>
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it's that easy
>>
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Locksneed in shambles
>>
>>16798992
>>16798993

achtually the tr3b testimony said it was lockheed technology and operated with conventional hydrogen thrusters
>>
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>>16798994
Forgot image

US black tech space doritos run on hydrolox
>>
fucking schizos are back aaaaaaaaa
>>
>>16798995
[doubt]
>>
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"Hey Hey!"
>>
The space cake is a lie.
>>
>>16799005
looking forward to seeing this company go bankrupt

>>16799002
look man if you are gonna schizoshitpost about triangles at least get it right.
>>
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>>16798995
Comfy if true
I like combinations of old-fashioned tech with just a little bit of reverse-engineered alien hypertech
>>
>>16799026
I don't see how something like this could do the maneuvers people describe even with 89% mass reduction or whatever nonsense. Even with massively reduced mass you couldn't do sharp right angle turns, or stop on a dime, and you definitely couldn't go from 0 to ludicrous speed in a fraction of a second with what amounts to conventional rocket engines.
>>
>>16799030
I think the triangles are not the fast-maneuvering tictacs
>>
>>16799035
you have former marines and the like who report dorito going warp speed so likely it doesn't exist and that guy was just bullshitting or was fed disinfo.
I hope we have ARVs though that would mean we could skip the bullshit and go straight to alpha centauri.
>>
>>16799036
Too bad Alpha Centauri is a shithole
>>
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>>16799042
perfect place to set up a /sfg/ colony then.
>>
>>16799044
>bro we're just gonna be perfectly fine living on these low gravity worlds its gonna be cool as fuck
>WHY ARE MY KIDS JELLO? WHY ARE MY BONES BREAKING? *ACK*
>>
>>16798966
space is boring now
>>
>>16799044
>/sfg/ colony
>everyone lives underground
poetry
>>
>spacex mission control
thrown together from junk they found
>vast mission control
custom handcrafted bespoke design made from the finest exotic materials

yeah vast is going out of business soon lmao
>>
>>16799005
should've proonted that cake
>>
>>16799077
not exactly, the spacex Mission Control has custom monitors or some shit because elon was autistic
>>
>>16798989
Couldn't you just bring your own starlink?
>>
>>16798959
Congrats mate, starlink should not be that expensive, would not be better to get a group of pals and get yourselves an starlink. 2.5Gb is nothing per week.
>>
>>16799093
hah. hahahahaha.
>>
>>16799063
I wish I had the bug leg banana bunch screencap on my laptop
>>
>>16799100
nigger, not everyone knows the intricacies of the antarctic work environment
>>
>>16799100
Glad you're seeing the funny side of life.
>>
>>16799111
unauthorized networks are a big no-no.
>>
>>16799114
I wonder how they'll navigate that problem when starlink direct-to-cell is widespread.
>>
>>16799114
Just keep it secret! They'll never know.
>>
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long Cygnus
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>>16799119
they're also banning booze pretty much
>>
>>16799114
oh that thing, yeah im sleep deprived and didnt read the USAP stuff. do they know you use 4chan? I mean, do they track the requests and stuff?
>>
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>>16799121
>>
>>16799123
'requests'? well they do monitor the network. there is a rather lengthy network usage agreement form.
>>
>>16799003
any anon have that old ieatpoo superchat pic. Always made me laugh
>>
>>16799122
oof, I thought liquor was mandatory to keep you warm in those freezing temperatures.
>>
>>16799150
there is a sexual assault problem at McM
>>
>>16799154
doesn't McMurdo have Russians in it?
>>
>>16799154
Sorry mate, I she didn't wanted it just maaybee she should have been faster
>>
>>16799159
no it's Americans, some Kiwis from nearby Scott station, and a smattering of international researchers during the summer months mainly
>>
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https://x.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1971945808619884923

17h ago
>>
>>16799114
why?
>>
>>16799154
has the ethnic makeup of the station changed in the last few years (or decade)?
>>
>>16799171
call me when its ready in 2 years
>>
>>16799172
I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader.

>>16799173
I don't think so.
>>
>>16799181
so people just started raping randomly? lmao
>>
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space station wars
>>
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>>16799185
there have been multiple congressional inquiries into it.
McMudhole can be a weird place
>>
>>16799161
and struggle a little bit harder, too. I mean come on bitch, is that really all the strength you can exert?
>>
>axiom shilling for orbital data centers
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>
>>16799197
its inevitable, but probably not very close
>>
>>16799199
why would you put something that generates heat in a vacuum?
>>
>>16799200
Free power, and the heat management is a known quantity
>>
Succesful static fire of the upper stage of Galactic Energy's Pallas-1 RLV
The SF lasted ~224s, the upper stage is powered by a vacuum-optimised version of their "Welkin-50" Open cycle kerolox engine with a thrust of ~50-60t, the pallas-1 is roughly soyuz-class with a payload of 7t. The 1st stage is also fully assembled and expected to be static fired in the near future.
Galactic Energy aims for an inaugural launch at their Jiuquan pad at the end of the year or early next year.
>>
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>>16799217
They also announced that the first flight model of their new Vega-class solid launcher "Ceres-2" has completed final assembly and factory review and will be launched from Jiuquan before the end of the year.
>>
>>16799200
free space and free power (no NIMBYs causing problems in either)
radiators seem like something that need to be made more efficient anyway, I think there are many ideas for those that haven't really been tested or explored much (like having the radiator liquid being exposed to vacuum in small spray/droplet form and the recollecting it again, lots of area that way)
>>
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>Successful launch at 12:40 UTC of five Guowang (Wèixīng hùliánwǎng-11) satellites (built by SECM) by CZ-6A (Y16) from Taiyuan LC-9A into a 1000 km 86.5° orbit
>>
>>16799225
only 5? what went wron?
>>
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Some informations about european launchers from the World Space Business Week a couple weeks ago taken from the "Aerospatium" aerospace newspaper

Isar:
>Currently booked until flight 7, scheduled for H2 2027, aim for 6-8 launches a year starting 2027, Andoya limits the number of annual launches to 15 but isar aims to bring their Kourou pad operational by early 2028, which could add 20 other launches (range to be shared with other companies), Isar is also looking at a 3rd launch site, their Acores project failed due to wind constraint, they're currently looking at a site in Canada
>Isar tentatively aims for a 2nd launch before christmas

PLD Space:
>CDR is almost complete
>First flight model expected to roll out of factory in december, will be tested at PLD's Teruel site in Q1 2026, then shipped to kourou for april were it will start 6 weeks of combined tests, ahead of a launch between May and August

RFA:
>RFA One maiden launch delayed to Early 2026, despite their previously claims of only light damages during their failed static fire, they are reportedly still repairing their test/launch site, which seems to be the bottleneck

Arianespace:
>Will hand over Vega-C ownership after next 2 launches (Korean Kompsat and Sino-european SMILE)
>Next A6 (Sentinel-1D) NET November 4, the one after (2xGalileo) NET December 16
>>
i love being collared
>>
All these people dunking on anon for not being allowed booze and internet, when the same sort of shit will be applied to the Martian colonies
>>
>>16799217
Other pic

>>16799228
Medium, Soyuz-class launcher, relatively heavy sats (heavier than Kuipers or Starlink v2, probably slightly under a ton each) sent to a 1000km polar orbit.
>>
Nuclear Electric Propulsion (NEP)
>>
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>>16799233
Isar is the only remotely serious private European launcher. What's their CEO like? Does he have higher aspirations or is he a complete bore?
>>
>>16799269
Why don't they launch at the top of that mountain instead? It seems pretty flat.
>>
>>16799233
Any reusability in those?
>>
I have a question and no other thread to ask it in

Why is solar-thermal propulsion not a thing yet?
>>
>>16799279
because it sucks
>>
>>16799279
It's heavy and there's no way to move and concentrate heat to make your propellants hot enough to be worthwhile.
>>
>>16799285
>no way to move and concentrate heat
mirrors?
>heavy
which part of it would be heavy?
>>
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spehs
>>
>>16799272
PLD wants to recover their Miura 5 at sea (picrel are drop tests), but frankly if Rocket lab said they don't find it economical at their launch rate, I doubt PLD will.

RFA has mentioned reusability on their RFA One through different methods (Parachute at sea, some kind of ballute-fins system, and even retropropulsive) but it doesn't seem they're actively working on it for RFA One so far (although it's known they're in early development of a larger reusable launcher)

Only Arianegroup is actively working on retropropulsive recovery through the publicily funded Themis program and its privately-funded Maia derivative. It's very much a "minimum viable RLV" however, sized to compete with the european newspace launchers without threatening Ariane 6.

Avio also has a publicily funded hopper program which they hope to derive a reusable launcher from around 2028-2032
>>
aliens are discussing right now about whether they should genocide us or not because we're too dumb to figure out basic things like miniverse drives
>>
>>16799300
real tired of the parachute sea recovery meme
>>
>>16799270
Are you retarded?
>>
>>16799293
Mirrors don't get you anything unless you have a lot of mirrors correctly aligned.

That already adds a lot of mass unless you use thin film mirrors, but then you still need a way to keep them attached to the spacecraft and correctly aligned.

In other words it's not an issue of whether or not you can extract useful energy from sunlight, but whether you can do so with high enough efficiency that you offset the mass of the concentrator and still outperform the conventional alternatives.

Pointing out that it's theoretically possible to concentrate sunlight is missing the point.
>>
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>>16798955
Is this a good idea?
>>
>>16799300
recovering is always economical though
even if you don't reuse
you get your booster back and can verify all your models/hopes/dreams
>>
>>16797527
If we can figure out the material science the future is bright. It's a shame nobody is trying, I heard they might be working on fission fragment engines now at least. I'm not sure if it is cope or not.

Man I hate how every insanely good space engine requires le evil nukes that make everything a bureaucratic nightmare to work on
>>
>>16799329
godless liberals hate freedom
>>
>>16799322
>1000 km/s
nigga you gay
>>
are we allowed to talk about planes in this general? because i'm very curious about all these new manned and unmanned planes that have been popping up these past few years
t. newfag
>>
>>16799340
The general is named spaceflight not aerospace so not really no
>>
>>16799323
You don't need to recover for inspections more than a few times tho.
>>
>>16799342
oh, okay...
>>
>>16799171
>installing a short run of fire sewer is now a "milestone"

Next milestone: When the handicapped toilet is installed in the Ladies restroom.
>>
What is the point of a spaceplane if you need to attach it to a booster anyway?
>>
>>16799372
not if you have a spaceplane-booster on top of a spaceplane-second stage
>>
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>>16799217
>Soyuz Class

Impressive. If this was 1963.
>>
>>16799373
What is the point of a spaceplane-booster on top of a spaceplane-second stage if you need to attach it to a launch tower anyway?
>>
I have KSA AMA
>>
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"Good effort! You tried really hard!"
>>
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Reads like someone on Aliexpress trying to sell you on a USB cable with a ground short.
>>
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"Not Clickbait! Please click and subscribe."
>>
>>16799340
page 9 is generally when more obscure topics are brought up and discussed
>>
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>>16799375
Galactic energy has a good solid rocket business that makes them the 3rd private LSP in the world by launch rate but their liquid launcher R&D sucks.
They announced that pallas 1 in 2018 and it's at least three years late, they've been left behind by other chinese private LSP who are about to field launchers >2x times more capable.
They stuck to Pallas 1 but are continuously revising the design of the Pallas 2 upward.
>>
>>16799376
why would you need to do that?
>>
genuinely why are small sat launchers still trying to pop up. Literally every single one is either dead, retired, or rocket lab (they are building a larger rocket.)

makes even less sense with heavy and super heavy partially/fully reusable launch vehicles on the market. you won't need to make tiny bespoke sats anymore. you can make then dumb, cheap, and heavy since mass is no longer an issue. In fact you dont even need to make a satellite anymore since there are companies that will mass produce satellites for you and you just integrate your payload
>>
>>16799401
question for china knowledgable anons, do any of the Chinese companies actually make money? outside of the couple that are essentially CAS themselves
>>
>>16799406
I was excited for EXOS, they were chill and were actually doing the whole shoestring budget launcher thing correctly is seemed
>>
>>16799377
Will you upload the installer someplace to leak it?
That's the only thing I'll bother asking, everything else I can figure out myself.
>>
>>16799377
How shit is the game?
>>
>>16799406
Tricking venture captial into believing that your tiny launcherwill be profitable is the easiest path to starting out without going broke. All of these companies intend to make bigger rockets but would never raise the VC to do so without proof of a working smaler rocket first.
>>
>Total launches 484
>Success(es) 483
sex
>>
>>16799418
what about reliability and orbital precision though
>>
>>16799422
rhetoric
>>
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>>16799423
don't think so
>>
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>>16799430
this is the same company that fudged the math on reuse to make themselves look better
>>
>>16799431
I fail to see how only reusing the engines saves more than reusing the whole booster. wtf ULA?
>>
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>>16799130
>well they do monitor the network. there is a rather lengthy network usage agreement form.
Why do they need to do all that if Mcmurdo is just a simple research station? Unless there's more to it?
>>
>>16799433
because it's an expensive research station with critical systems all over, you just answered your own question. You're overthinking it. Same reason I need a VPN to access my work systems off-base.
>>
>>16799435
b-but le AHLIUMS
>>
>>16799315
I still don't get it
compare:
>rocket body + tankage
>fuel
>oxidizer
>engine
vs
>mirror
>propellant
>support structure
>>
>>16799293
>>16799279
solar anything is dumb. Being dependent on the sun for anything is dumb.
>>
>>16799438
it's free energy
not going to be useful for serious work in the outer solar system, but for puttering around here or launching probes, why not?
>>
>>16799436
no just penguins. e.g.,
>In collaboration with researchers from the Antarctic New Zealand (ANZ) program, four participants (three U.S. and one NZ) will deploy to a Cape Crozier field camp to study foraging ecology and habitat use of Emperor penguins (Aptenodytes forsteri) during late-chick rearing (mid-October through late November). The team will capture up to 32 penguins departing for a foraging trip, which will be weighed, morphometrics collected, sampled (feather), and instrumented with data loggers. About 20 penguins will be nstrumented with data loggers recording GPS, depth, and acceleration, and up to four of these penguins will also be instrumented with a video datalogger. When penguins return from a foraging trip, they will be relocated using a radio transmitter, recaptured, weighed, measured, and a blood sample collected.
>>
>>16799441
>not going to be useful for serious work in the outer solar system
exactly it's dumb. we will find a better way. do not fall for the sun's lies, he is a false god.
>>
>>16799441
Don't waste your time with the deranged anti-solar fag. He's here every thread and is just as retarded every time.
>>
>>16799447
>will
as in, there is no better way now?
thanks for conceding I guess
>>
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Thoughts on this concept?

45 metric tons to orbit SSTO, powered by 5 SSME's.

>http://www.astronautix.com/v/vtohl45t.html
>>
>>16799454
Gay
>>
>>16799454
You don't share it or you have 4 with 3 family and 1 non related to family.
>>
>>16799454

It looks like a flying platapus
>>
what
>>
>>16799459
yeah
>>
>>16799457
That's the latest measure of this dream saying this. We still have 'gingers' (those with equal mental and spiritual agility; not just auto on the mind and perfect execution).

There doesn't need to be multiple 'bull sperm' who's main profession is to install and reset civilization. You either have 1 for ultimate safety or you make a perfect 4 and manage/monitor etc. You don't really have to monitor 1 as it's fear IS you and his comfort is in loafing around
>>
Did you know that there is a direct correlation between the decline in spirograph and the rise in spacecraft activity?
>>
We'll do multiple
>>
>>16799465
I am right in saying we shouldn't share like it was nothing and be careful how many and who gets this. It's another one of those sufferage things. I can take all of you and all of them ATM.
>>
>>16799467
It's settled. We'll make a pile. Similar to a government in size. Alternatively you have 1 and his fear rules.
>>
>>16799454
There is absolutely no way that this would have worked. Zero. Even to get it to work as an SSTO with zero payload woud be impressive. Claiming it could carry double Shuttle's payload is just clown tier.
>>
>>16799450
There are some people working on next gen RTGs to solve the issue of there being no plutonium left but even then they are only good for low power systems.
There are some Stirling RTGs in development that promise far better efficiency
Solar is limited to the inner solar system.
Small nuclear reactors could work but those would still be limited for larger missions unless someone creates a nano reactor that can fit on medium sized spacecraft.
There is also the concept of a reactor that is a solid core reactor which is basically like a really big nuclear battery, those have promise for miniaturization.
There are also just betavoltaic batteries which provide even less power than RTGs but are more available since they don't require plutonium.

Ideally RTG breakthroughs solve the issue of solar being useless in the outer solar system. For lunar and mars bases we will bring along nuclear reactors because solar is just too shit to really provide good power for resource extraction and processing

>>16799454
>SSTO
We aren't getting SSTO until we unlock UFO tech, sorry that's just the way it is.
>>
>>
>>16799475
please don't tell me this natural silicate reaction was confused for muh microorganisms
>(no, you cannot see them!!1! teehee!)
>>
>>16799476
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasas-perseverance-rover-discovers-a-rock-that-may-contain-alien/

different
>>
>>16799437
thats nonsensical, a chemical propellant engine based in-space system will have much higher thrust so if you used something like that, you would actually need the thrust
what you need to compare the solar thermal against is solar powered ion engines (or some internal power source)
>>
>>16799475
that """"rock"""" at the top of the pic is definitelly dog poop. I know since I pick them up every day
so I guess the aliens have dogs
>>
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>>16799407
>Chinese companies actually make money
Basically no, we know from recent IPO fillings that CAS Space and Landspace are not profitable, we also learnt last year that Orienspace isn't (and is generally not doing to well financially).

We know that iSpace/interstellar glory was at some point around 2022-2023 not profitable and losing a lot, they've diversified (in other domains such as drone production) so it's possible some of their subsidiaries is.

I don't know any hard financial data on Galactic energy but the saying is that they do break even on individual ceres launches but are in the red overall.

As for CASC (which it must be reminded, is a Boeing or Airbus-sized conglomerate), they did report a net profit of about $2B in 2024.
But it doesn't matter as much to them as a fully state owned company managed by the SASAC. I guess it mostly matters for their commercial endeavours.
>>
>>16799488
seems problematic
>>
>>16799500
Its good for us and by us I mean the us
>>
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this is the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen
>>
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>>16799476
>natural silicate reaction
Iron oxide / iron sulfide reaction, actually; but yes. Petrological geochemistry. Probably not biological in any way.
>>
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>>16799472
>Solar is limited to the inner solar system.
in a manner of speaking
you can fall in from Earth and Oberth maneuver a solar craft around the sun to get up to ludicrous speed
it's gonna be just hard to stop once you get anywhere
>>
>>16799162
yeah
I heard that "International Researchers" was a euphemism for drunk russians raping people but I might be getting it confused for somewhere else
or maybe I just hallucinated it in my russophobia, dunno
>>
>>16799481
>much higher thrust
because what?
>>
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>>16799524
STP has thrust measured in 10s of newtons. It's tiny compared to chemical which is measured in kilonewtons. it's not even close
>>
>>16799522
you hallucinated it sorry
>>
You're a top German scientist in 1945 and Germany has just been defeated, do you go join the US or the Soviet Union and why?
>>
>>16799557
Von braun went to the americans for a reason
>>
>>16799531
>STP has thrust measured in 10s of newtons
what the fuck are you even talking about?
>>
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Extremely obscure and esoteric jet engine without moving parts described by Von Ohain in a patent from 1985
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>>16799559
Solar Thermal Propulsion has a potential thrust of anywhere from 1 to 10s of newtons. Are you retarded? do you not understand what newtons are?
>>
>>16799481
Less parasitic mass and higher Isp means more delta V, which means more payload for the same delta V.
>>16799531
Irrelevant.

>captcha: PPSTN
>peepee stain
>>
>>16799557
I don't think the soviets had ever had a very good reputation
>>
>>16799557
What reliable info do you have on the USSR science programs? It's just a void. US is the easy choice. In addition to the normal reasons why troops preferred surrender to the Western Allies. You can't even be sure your life will be spared by the Soviets.
>>
>>16799557
I retire to Argentina to sip booze on the beach until I die of liver failure in the early 70s.
>>
>>16799565
*less* parasitic mass? lmaooo
>>
>>16799557
Go to argentina or brazil and you'll be appointed chief of the rockets or whatever.
>>
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>>16799557
America has all the gibs me dat I can get
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>>16799565
you can't do high thrust maneuvers with a solar thermal rocket. That's the entire point he was making.
It's equivalent to a high thrust hall effect thruster or metal/plasma thruster, both of which are way easier to integrate onto a spacecraft and can easily do 1N of thrust while only operating on electricity. We also have prototype hall effect thrusters that can reach 5+N of thrust.
Meanwhile solar thermal estimates, from every study I can find, are looking at maybe 900isp and thrusts of 10N, mayyyybe 20N. Either way it's pitiful amount of thrust considering you are using hydrogen for the propellant which is notoriously space inefficient and hard to work with.

It's nonsensical compared to the very obvious alternatives and there is a reason no one has bothered to make it a reality.

>irrelevant
It's not irrelevant. It's worse than chemical for high thrust and it's only (theoretically) marginally better than existing mature technology which still has room to grow and is way easier to scale since you can just add more HE thrusters.
>>
>Starship Crew-1 has landed in Phlegra Montes!
How will you react when you hear this?
>>
>>16799557
The ones who WERE captured by russia and helped make the R7 series of rockets were trying to get the the american lines first lol. The choice is clear. America was interested in science and offered a nice place to live. Russia was a shithole who hated germs
>>
>>16799579
>How will you react when you hear this?
Somewhere along the lines of “ugh fucking FINALLY, should have done this 50 years ago. Thank you Mr. Elon. And RRRRRAH I love America” I’ll then make the sign of the cross and grill some meat or something idk
>>
>>16799579
none of us will be alive to see it
>>
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British sovl mogs Amerislop and Puccian 'hardware'.
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>>16799592
God how I wish this was real.
>>
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>>16799592
>delusional anon can only relate to fantasy and ahistorical renders
Makes sense
>>
>>16799570
I was literally just thinking about this you would need giant fucking mirrors in addition to your solar arrays and radiators.

genuinely what is even the use case for STP? not to mention you have to deal with boiloff which is made worst by the long duration burns you would be doing. AND if you've *solved* the hydrogen boiloff problem, WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T YOU JUST DO IN SPACE REFILLING? Just put up a fucking zero boiloff depot in space and refill your propellant, do another burn. no need for fuckass mirrors or relying on the sun for propulsion.

Nonsense
>>
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>>16799597
Not any of those anons but solar thermal propulsion would be fine, say from like the 70s to the 90s or 00s, IF and only if someone else already brute forced the r&d and you had a heavy lifter like Saturn V or Energia to put a big payload up. But alas, what’s the point when you can just do something equivalent, such as Curiosity on a Delta IV or Europa Clipper on a Falcon. And yeah with the incoming age of Propellant Depots? It negates pretty much all meme concepts. You get to top off on fuel and oxidizer and do more burn(s) at full comapacity, you can now basically go wherever
>>
>>16799603
my fuckass KSP plane that is unbalanced and banks directly into the vertical rocket VAB as I attempt to takeoff from the buggy-ass runway
>>
With gta6 taking place in florida, what are the chances that they will include rocket launch sites north of vice city as an analog to cape canaveral?
>>
>>16799607
50/50, either they include them or they don’t
>>
>>16799609
would be crazy if they dont include them. I lean toward them being included considering that Elon is deeply engrained in normie brains, and by extension his evil nazi space program.
>>
>>16799607
Considering how famous Elon Musk is I'd say yes.
>>
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>>16799154
Tbf being alone in a freezing research station sounds boring as fuck. some people will eventually succumb to what people do when there is no immediate consequences, specially with alcohol. Whores should be on the monthly budget to secure the mental well being of the crew.
>>16799272
After some small research I realized how similar is the non-reusable/usable question to monolithic/microservices one in software. On the left side we could scale better but the amount of resources and time you have to put into is too much and if you dont bring the big bucks fast you could shoot yourself in the foot before the race even starts. But on the right side if you have a good non-reusable rocket the market and the people expect you eventually make it reusable, forcing you to design another one or upgrade the one you have which basically puts you on a difficult situation because how different the architectures are. I might be wrong and I'm open to discussion as well.
>>
>>16799570
Yeah, less :) Cry more fag
>>
>>16799362
kek are you a r3dditor or something. talk about whatever you want, just also mainly about spaceflight and dont derail or bait the thread
>>
>>16799597
>genuinely what is even the use case for STP?
Intra-Asteroid Belt propulsion, using water.
>>
>>16799377
how demanding it is for your pc? specs?
>>
>>16799581
I wish I was American so bad
>>
>>16799596
>posts made up slop
>>
>>16799607
Probably, but they're like a film set or some conspiratard shit like that
>>
>>16799562
>Solar Thermal Propulsion has a potential thrust of anywhere from 1 to 10s of newtons
where did you get this fucking stupid number from, dumbass?
>>
>>16799607
with current GTA devs and corpos, probably there willl be a couple missions against definitely not-Elon Musk. I'll take it
>>
>>16799604
solar will always have better isp
chemical basically only makes sense for crawling out of gravity wells
>>
>>16799625
I assuming you wanted to link to this?
>>>/wsg/5983709
>>
>>16799639
Bait or retarded, call it.
>>
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>>16799642
you don't have to carry around oxidizer
exhaust temps are comparable or higher
>>
>>16799643
We can extract meaningful work if we rig our spacecraft with a quadrillion of these! It’s that easy btw
>>
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Before 1980s NASA can get men on Mars, they need to nip down to the corner shop for a few things first.
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>>16799641
I still wish I could read all the shittalkers minds back then to see if they really believed what they were saying.
>>
>>16799637
unless you are getting megawatts of solar energy yeah you aren't going to get much thrust
>>
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>>16799603
A brochure
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>>16799658
you can focus about half a megawatt in a meter square spot with just a basic parabolic mirror
>>
>>16799617
no, inaccurate and gay
>>
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>>16799661
>>
>>16799660
just fuck my F-4 up senpai
>>
>>16799643
Reminder that these only work if the vacuum inside is imperfect.
>>
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>>16799660
Looks like one of them spear nozzles.
>>
>titan turtle moved to phase 2 in 2020
Please don't be kikes and let this go through. We were robbed with Dragonfly.
>>
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>>16799661
for a large ship it would need to be hundreds of MW and use mirrors hundreds of meters in diameter all to get very pitiful thrust compared to just using a fucking hydrolox rocket engine

The ISP charts are honestly grim for anything other than hydrogen anyways
>>
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Do we have the tech for this yet? Pratt & Whitney said in the 1980s it 'absolutely' can be done.
>>
>>16799680
>very pitiful thrust
again I must ask, where did you get this idea and can you put some numbers to it
>>
>>16799687
lol, lmao even
>>
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>>16799694
The only studies I can find say something like 20n or less but they are all studies for use on small satellites.
There is one VERY optimistic scenario that uses liquid Rhenium at 5800k using a massive km wide mirror and it only gets a thrust of about 120kn which is 1/9th the thrust of a vac merlin 1D. Km wide mirror for 1/9th of a merlin 1D

you just aren't gonna get regular chemical thrust levels from this technology.
>>
>>16799709
that doesn't seem too bad actually
and what's the isp on this Rhenium solar motor?
>>
>>16799711
https://toughsf.blogspot.com/2017/10/liquid-rhenium-solar-thermal-rocket.html

It requires a really complex rotating actively cooled drum and an expensive fuel mixture not available in situ.
It's genuinely cheaper and far less complex to just do refilling. you can get methane and hydrogen as well as oxygen super easy.
>>
>>16799709
wait nvm I found it you fucking faggot
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20160003173/downloads/20160003173.pdf
700 seconds of impulse lol
"only" twice as much as Raptor?
>>
>>16799717
>700 seconds of impulse lol
reminder that Isp is fuel efficiency, not power
you can get a 60MPG car but it's not going to be a muscle car.
>>
>The price of rhenium varies significantly by market, quantity, and purity, but as of early 2025, it is approximately $60-$70 USD per ounce or roughly $49,380 per kilogram

So, your reaction mass is $50 million per ton FOB. A tad pricey dontchaknow.
>>
>>16799720
you only need a muscle car to get out of gravity wells
once you're in SPEHS you don't need massive acceleration, isp is the only figure of merit
>>
>>16799677
>Dragonfly is 5x over budget
>>
>>16799722
other high-Z materials are available and some are cheaper
>>
>>16799724
hydrolox is 450s and far more simple than gigahuge mirrors which barely do better than that much. Hydrogen is available in great abundance on the moon and NEOs.
Refilling chemical is the future and none of the other options have any merit when you can just fill up at the local space gas station
>>
>>16799729
QI fixes this
>>
>>16799729
are these local space gas stations in the room with us now?
>>
>>16799717
Looking at that, it seems H2 is the reaction mass, and the "engine" is rhenium, probably because because of the high temperature involved. So, the rhenium isn't expended as such, but you still need tons per vehicle.
>>
>>16799726
yeah it doesn't matter how cheap it is it's never going to be cheaper than just melting ice and using electrolysis on the moon. Lunar prop will fuel manlkind's expansion into the solar system. At some point even Elon will have to admit using moon derived hydrolox tugs to push starship to mars is cheaper than LEO refilling using methane from earth.

>>16799734
if we get quantum propulsion then literally everything about society as a whole would change completely.
>>
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>>16799734
but you have to remember to turn it on before your orbit decays
>>
>>16799739
>just electrolyze the abundant water on the moon, bro
>just a few moonbases bro
>just a few dozen fuel depots in space bro
>just a few hundred rockets bro
>pls ignore that you're going to have to thrust to rendezvous with the depots bro
>bro pls
>>
>>16799744
Are you missing that the Solar Thermal Wundarengine uses Hydrogen, so it wold require all of that to refuel too?
>>
>>16799746
>double the isp
>no need to schlep oxygen around
yea I think I can live with that
>>
Surely we can come up with a better engine right /sfg/?

Why don't we use conventional explosives packed into casings, with a large mass of steel or perhaps lead capping the end of the case.
instead of using a pusher plate like orion we just explode it in a cavity.
The mass is expelled at high velocity and the ship moves forward.
We can use a long barrel to allow the explosion pressure act on the mass longer and accelerate the mass to a faster exit velocity.
Then expend the casing, load another one, and repeat.

I call it the freedom engine.
>>
>>16799755
caseless is the future
>>
>>16799746
Only matters if fuel and oxidizer is hella expensive to bring up from Earth, and SpaceX has and continues to reduce that cost. Spaceships no longer have the mass constraints that drive these exotic propulsion systems.
>>
>>16799755
I think we should just make the casing out of something that turns into gas too so we have more mass pushing.
>>
>>16799757
at that point you might as well use a high power coilgun and accelerate ferromagnetic masses to extreme speeds
>>
>>16799755
>Why don't we use conventional explosives packed into casings
Hydrogen + Oxygen is 13.8 Megajoules per liter. Pure liquid nitroglycerine is 6.38 megajoules per liter.
>>
>>16799778
anon....
>>
>>16799779
Think about it for a minute. You could run a firearm almost forever with a small tank of catalyst decomposed peroxide, with higher muzzle velocity from the higher gas expansion/exhaust velocity of the propellant.
>>
>>16799781
here I was thinking you didnt get the joke.
I would think the weight of the bullets would probably kill the T:W ratio though so it's probably not worth it.

Maybe pulsed hydrogen-oxygen detonations could yield higher ISP than traditional engines though? IIRC rocket engines are deflagration which is less efficient than detonation. Knowing NASA they probably already looked into PDE
>>
>>16799784
I might just be schizo but didn't nasa have a experimental pulsejet engine?
>>
>>16799785
they have an RDE

https://youtu.be/UShD03eG9IU

I keep hearing people say that RDE don't work well or some other shit that makes them not worth it but I can't seem to find anything to back those claims up
>>
>>16799786
I love the REEEEEEEEEEEEE engine
>>
>>16799784
>>16799785
>>16799786
Pulse detonation is worse than continuous deflagration, but rotary detonations are continuous detonation engines.
>>
>>16799375
Good old Soyuz, nothing beats that.
>>
>>16799789
pulse detonation wouldn't work in atmosphere to lift payloads into orbit for obvious reasons but why not in space? you get like 25% performance boost over deflagration. There has to be a reason no one has used it before. RDEs I understand, they are still really new technology, but PDE is pretty well known by this point isn't it?
>>
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>>16799792
That's a damn good question, actually
>>
>>16799792
Maybe because most of rocketry has been about getting to orbit?
Switching to another form of propulsion after reaching LEO means a completely different engine that is useless extra mass on the way up.
>>
>>16799797
Eh that's true. the only possible benefit would be to third stages which hardly exist, space tugs, and deployed payloads that have thrusters. all of which probably want to have consistent thrust so they can really fine tune their orbit/position.

I guess the only meaningful way to improve upon chemical is to mature RDREs to the point they can be used in place of traditional second stage rocket engines etc
>>
why don't we just use fusion reactors?
>>
>>16799812
The technology base for fusion reactors is akin to the Roman steam engine: the idea is there, but the means to make it useful is not.
>>
>>16799812
the only people really working on fusion propulsion is pulsar, and well... yeah.

There is also the issue of neutron radiation
>>
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Machined out of a single block of aluminium.
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>>16799687
spaceplanes don't work bro
>>
>>16799846
dear lord, no wonder its so expensive
>>
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why isn't it used in rocketry?
>>
>>16799540
makes sense with the rapes being heterosexual, that's not a very Russian way of doing it
>>
>>16799606
I've always had the most success with the second tier of runway
the first one is bumpy and the third one has those lights on the edges that I keep running into
>>
>>16799846
It's not. It's welded at those channels
>>
>>16799857
cubes have cooties
>>
>>16799857
fuck does this minecraft shit even do?
>>
>>16799870
big energy
>>
>>16799870
that's cubane
it's a weird carbon molecule that's a pain in the ass to make and has high bond strain which means it has a high energy when burned or whatever
unfortunately it's a solid so isn't useful for rockets and also, as stated, cubes have cooties
>>
>>16799851
Let me tell you kids about chemical milling rocket parts back in the day. Fall in the acid bath and they'd never find your bones.
>>
>>16799740
thanks, anon
>>
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Great. Professor Buzzkill has a new video up.
>>
>>16799878
>why are we so early
this assumes that our models are correct and that the universe is as old as we think it is. JWST continues to push against that assumption. Seems like every few months they find a new galaxy which formed earlier than was ever thought to be possible.
>>
>>16799122
ayy lmao, in the argentine side we had to check if some officer passed out in the cold of so much drinking
there is no other thing to do
>>
>>16799875
solid is fine for rockets. You can make a hybrid
>>
>>16799882
there is lots to do
I don't understand drunkards
>>
>>16799884
Solids are less easy to reuse than liquid
filling a solid rocket motor is not as easy as pumping in liquid
>>
>>16799888
engineering problem
>>
>>16799889
here's the real problem though. Assume you can come up with some engineering solution that makes refueling solid rockets as easy as liquid rockets. Does a solid fuel even exist that has better overall performance than hydrolox, kerolox, methalox?
>>
>>16799200
Physical security. Very hard to sneak usb drive onto a server in orbit.
>>
>>16799893
cubane has double the volumetric energy density of rp1. Probably worth investigating
>>
>>16799882
otro argentino en esefgee? kjjj
>>
>>16799897
I just clicked from the home
>>16799886
not in the middle of winter, also I'm not a scientist
>>
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>>
what about chemical exothermic reactions as a way to superheat propellant instead of using nuclear reactors? The big upside to that would be no radiation shielding would be needed, downside is it's obviously going to be parasitic mass and if it doesn't get hot enough for long enough you aren't getting much over just burning your prop with oxygen.

Are there any chemical reactions that get to temperatures as hot as a fission reaction or no? My immediate assumption is no since there doesn't seem to be anything online.
>>
>>16799904
nuclear<chemical
just no way around it
>>
>>16799909
ok but they operate at roughly 2500-3000K and some exothermic reactions can operate at like 5200K,
all are combustion reactions however so I suppose it's not going to be worth it to combust "Dicyanoacetylene" just to heat up hydrogen.
>>
>>16799878
Earth is the only inhabited planet because this is the one that Ra made, and the universe used to be much smaller. Then humans started looking at the pretty lights in the sky and asking questions about them, so the universe grew and got more complicated to accommodate our increased capacity to study it. The changes are retroactive, so from our current perspective the universe has always been the way it is, but 5000 years ago that was not the case.
Life elsewhere in the universe doesn't exist, and can only come into existence if we figure out some abiogenesis pathway in the lab, as it originally arose on Earth because the gods did it.
>>
>>16799904
tripropellant engines already exist
>>
>>16799918
The point isn't to have a triprop engine it's to get higher exhaust velocities similar to a nuclear thermal engine without the nuclear part.
The alternatives are beamed power or solar thermal, neither of which are ideal and have their own flaws.
>>
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Encels assemble
>>
has f9 not been launching recently or have we simply not been discussing each launch now
>>
>>16798955
I'm not sure how to words this or ask, so I'll just jump straight to the question:
Wouldn't it be easier and more practical to piggyback off of comets, asteroids and interstellar objects to explore the far depths of space?
Wouldn't we be able to land a probe onto such an object and let it carry the equipment so we could spend more time prioritizing data gathering?
>>
>>16799927
One of the blackest pills in spaceflight is that Enceladus is actually just gray, the light blue stripes are fake color. You can now cry.
>>
>>16799911
the issue is those chemical reactions don't last for that long
>>
>>16799932
yeah that figures.

there is also arcjets but I dont think those scale very well
>>
>>16799929
there's been like four this week
>>
>>16799930
this is called "asteroid mining" and none of them ever go in the directions we want to be going
people are working on it but it's mostly about being out there and not going to any particular location
>>
>>16799930
its far far easier to just do grav assists to get out to the outer solar system. see: literally every outer solar system mission ever.
>>
>>16799936
Speaking of gravity assists, is it not also possible to do magnetosphere assists with a magsail or something like TARS that coolwhip man suggested?
>>
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https://x.com/w00ki33/status/1972500141811916854
>Falcon 9 first stage can be seen maneuvering in MVac's wake during a stunning California Starlink launch tonight.
>>
>>16799940
Many things are simultaneously possible and not funded
>>
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https://x.com/AJ_FI/status/1972511463010078740
>Launch 59: A Long March 2D lifted off at 0300 UTC today from Xichang, sending the experimental Shiyan-30 (01) and (02) satellites into orbit.
>>
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>I used to work for Spacex Starlink but I burnt out
>Then I worked for Amazon Kuiper but it was gay
>Left Amazon to work for an aviation startup that offered me a bunch of money
>I knew the Aviation world prioritized safety over innovation but this shit is retarded
>My company has been around for over 10 years and doesn't expect to bring a product to market for at least 5 more
>I go to work every day and test dev hardware that doesn't work for engineers that don't care


MFW I gotta go back to working on spaceflight hardware before I fucking kill myself
>>
>>16799934
it's over
>>
>>16799948
join me in antarctica.
>>
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https://x.com/TheBigLiVig/status/1770089652965540206
>SpaceX Falcon 9 Rocket Launch @ Vandenberg SFB as seen from Studio City on 3/18/24 (Starlink Group 7-16)
>>
launch license status?
>>
>>16799950
we should melt Antarctica and turn it into rocket fuel
>>
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>>16799953
>we should melt Antarctica
already been done before
>>
>>16799950
What position did you get hired for? Antarctica has been on my bucket list for years. My wife and I were seriously considering doing a couple seasons together but she got accepted to grad school so we have to wait until she's done with her masters for obvious reasons.
>>
>>16799957
OPSEC my man I don't want to fuck up my first deployment. It's a small world down there. Even if I said 'steward' that's only like 15 people.
>>
>>16799958
Fair enough! I wish you well. Please update us as much as you can without jeopardizing your job so I can live vicariously through you. Do you plan on working more than one season?
>>
>>16799959
It would be nice to do the triple crown. McMurdo, Pole, Palmer, all back to back.
>>
>>16799035
yeah the black triangles are slow moving quiet hoverers, I'm pretty sure they're actually buoyant airships and probably not even manned
>>
>>16799930
>piggyback off of comets, asteroids and interstellar objects to explore the far depths of space
It takes a lot of energy to move something that big. Energy that we don't have and that you can't get from the rock.
Mining is one thing, but using one as a long range ship to another star is science fiction.
>>
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>>16799967
some people think the pheonix lights was a secret ISR platform. Something that could be deployed and loiter for long periods. Floating it over a populated city is a great way to gather data on what people on the ground would see and how they might react. Pretty typical for classified programs. That's information they need to know.
Like many weird US military stuff it probably was tested a few times and shelved
>>
>>16799948
Damn doing what, are you an aerospace engineer? sounds like a nice CV to work on any company in the world
>>
>>16799862
good stuff, David, we're really enjoying your contributions to the thread
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_pair#Unnatural_base_pair_(UBP)
wild stuff.
I'm not worried about jello babies. We'll have full control over the human genome in 10 years
>>
>>16799729
Nuclear thermal is the future
>>
>>16799965
Winter at the pole has always been the fantasy for me. I know it takes several seasons to earn the trust needed to do winter at Amundsen-Scott but it's the closest thing a normal person can get to being an astronaut. Totally inaccessible by anyone on the outside for ffour months, but with the earthly benefits of plentiful greenhouse weed and station-wide fuck parties. (Not a joke, go read the forums)
>>
>>16799980
>antartica has orgies
guess kim Stanley Robinson wasnt far off the mark after all
>>
>>16799949
one of those launches sent three heliosphere probes to ESL1, which is cool
GoreSat was getting kind of old iirc
>>16799975
you will thank me for not posting a picture of a dead or dying Russian
>>16799979
not really
>>
>>16799980
there is no greenhouse weed and the fuck parties are overblown, sorry. There is a fish in the tunnels, though
Also they can fly in all 12 months of the year now, there have been some medivacs lately...
>>
jerbs https://ghgcorp.applicantpro.com/jobs/
>>
>>16799985
They absolutely grow weed in the greenhouse during the winter. It's been a tradition since the 70s
>>
>>16799985
>There is a fish in the tunnels
There are fish in the what
>>
>>16799980
>station-wide fuck parties
You're not invited, anon.
>>
>>16799988
simply false. you have no idea what you are talking about. there wasn't even a greenhouse back in the Dome days.
>>
space force used electronic warfare against iran during the stealth bombings...they dont specify what they did though...boring
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/space-force-spectrum-warfare-midnight-hammer-upgrades/
>>
/sfg/ - McMurdo General
>>
spehs
>>
>>16799998
one of the current astronauts was Research Associate at Palmer once which is neat
>>
>>16799997
space force should foot the bill for moon missions and propellant depots it's in their best interest that CHYNA doesn't get a moon base before we do. GIVE US THAT DEFENSE SPENDING BUDGET AHHHHHH
>>
>>16799998
/sfg/ - South pole Faggots General
>>
/sfg/ - Station-wide Fuck-party General
>>
I wouldn't mind if spacex bids on the ASC for some reason. It would be better than like KBR winning it.
>>
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>>16800000
checked.
>>
>>16799998
/sfg/ - Sober Flight General
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>>16800011
fill me in jack.
>>
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>>16800007
I wouldn't be invited.
>>
>>16800000
czeched
>>
>>16800020
ASC is the antarctic service contract. It's up for bidding right now. We should know the winner next month I believe.
It's a <20-year contract, Indefinite-Delivery Indefinite-Quantity.
https://sam.gov/opp/6a5591bd664745e69389302a1a4e00ec/view

Leidos has it currently.
>>
>>16800025
ah, yes, of course spaceX would bid starship
>>
>>16799992
there is a frozen fish in a carved-out nook of the ice maintenance tunnel at Pole.
>>
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>>16800000
checked
>>
>>16799980
>station-wide fuck parties.
Earthers are disgusting, why are they all like this
>>
>>16800036
they're made of meat
>>
>>16800036
damn, i just realized. Have you entered a room where other people had sex previously? it stinks and there is a shitton of humidity. No wonder nobody has fucked on the ISS.
>>
>>16800033
>only 3 rvac on a v4 (formerly v3) starship
fix this immediately
>>
>>16800043
some anon made that .webm long ago. Hope he updates it
>>
>>16800036
The muskrat in chief should found a company aimed to artificially create more humans. He's all for increasing the world population no matter what, so he must've thought about it. Plus, it's a step in getting rid of s*x.
>>
>>16800048
that's 65% more human, per human
>>
>>16799896
Maybe in a hybrid motor?
>>
>>16799896
tetranitrocubane is better
>>
>>16799948
what about another jaunt at SpaceX
>>
>>16800041
Iss already stinks as it is. There are probably giant colonies of micro organisms in the vents blowing their spores in the faces of the crews 24/7. The stench of cleaning product barely masks the overwhelmingly pungent smell. The smell alone would stop a normal person from getting a hardon.
We really do have a very long way to go before truly liveable space habitats.
>>
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>>16799687
I would have said something like 'lmao just add moar engines lol' but here we are
>>
>>16800152
just make it big and cleanable, not the cramped rats nest of the ISS
>>
>>16800041
I have slept on the bed that I was concieved on
>>
>>16800155
Not an SSTO btw and V1 had zero payload DESPITE being 2 stage to orbit.
SSTO is only (barely) possible with useful payload if you use something like a hydrogen balloon tank, but then it's not reusable so there is no point.
>>
>>16800161
thats probably most people (assuming they were concieved in a stable relationship), if the baby slept on the bed the couple lived in
>>
>>16799945
okay now thats cool
>>
>>16800152
All you need is gravity. In zero-g, monstrous blobs of biomass develop hidden behind panelling.
>>
>>16799377
How fuckable are the female kats?
>>
>>16799592
That looks fucking awesome I will admit.
>>
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>>16800000
>>
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>>16799340
Only if they are the space kind
>>
>>16800247
>posts a glider
Starship is the first real space plane because it comes to a landing under it's own engine power.
>>
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>>16800000
blessed get
>>
>>16800247
>Starship v12 flying over a terraformed Mars, 2399 AD
>>
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https://x.com/esa_transport/status/1972576131061825933
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>>16800288
THE ESA ARE SO SMART
>>
>>16800288
>we will write yet another feasibility study
>it will take 5 years and 1 billion euro we don't actually have
more fake jobs for PhDs, yay
>>
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>>16800288
>>
>>16800288
"What if we put a starship on a srb" is really peak avio, I didn't think they'd have the balls to do that but they did.
Even ATK/NG would be ashamed of that.
>>
>>16800288
Is it common for the lower stage of a rocket to be much smaller than the upper stage?
>>
>>16800288
cool, another powerpoint. but yeah, musk is the conman
>>
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>>16800307
europenises are understated. it is an aesthetic choice
>>
>>16800300
kek
>>
>>16799720
So fucking what, it takes months to get anywhere interplanetary either way, needing to throost for 100x longer than a chemical engine is still less than 1% of the mission duration.
>>
>>16799714
It's genuinely cheaper to refill with water produced from an asteroid in the belt, where thrust and dV requirements are relatively tiny
>>
>>16800350
700 ISP is dogshit
ion thrusters have ISPs in 1k-10k, so if you actually wanted good ISP, STP would be shit there as well
so it has shit thrust and shit ISP at the same time
lmao
>>
>>16799607
GTA5 is in LA and doesn't have Vandenberg so I believe your question is already answered
>>
>>16800358
solar thermal only makes sense close to the sun, yes, but here it wins because you don't need to carry the energy with you in any form, it gets beamed to you for free
700 is not some theoretical maximum either, just the performance of a pretty old and complex/heavy tech demonstrator engine
>>
>>16800369
LITERALLY SHUT UP DUDE, YOU HAVE MADE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE A CLOWN.
>>
>>16799729
Hydrolox will make sense where its advantages are worth the infrastructure investment costs.

If you're scooting between asteroids in the belt you A) don't need high thrust, ever, apart from five to ten seconds total duration of centi-G acceleration which can be done with cold gas, and B) will have access to infinite water propellant as long as the vehicle is carrying a simple scoop and heater with a plumbed-in cold trap.

Vehicles heading to places years away from the nearest significant ISRU infrastructure cannot rely on hydrolox shipments, and making hydrolox on their own would be more costly & complex for no practical gain (especially considering the size of power supply needed to actually produce hydrolox in sufficient quantities would be larger than what would be needed to do an equal or greater dV with SEP using an overall much smaller amount of water).

Hydrolox production will make sense on the Moon, because the Earth is right there and overall dV and TWR requirements in cislunar space are decently high. It's not going to be dominant over everything.
>>
>>16799739
>At some point even Elon will have to admit using moon derived hydrolox tugs to push starship to mars is cheaper than LEO refilling using methane from earth.
At absolute best we could see lunar oxygen shipments to LEO replace the LOx that Starship tankers bring up. There's no universe in which lunar hydrogen is more economical than Earth methane.
>>
>>16799746
>all of that
No, it would require far less in fact, because it's higher Isp amd not pushing oxygen around. Far less hydrogen overall.
Even better would be SEP using oxygen, because that'd get 4x higher Isp and oxygen is hyperabundant relative to hydrogen on the Moon.
>>
>>16799755
Would be lower Isp and lower impulse density while being more prone to failure. All around shittier.

The simple fact is that propulsion tech isn't actually holding us back, investment into serious space programs with real return on investment is holding us back. If Artemis were a good program it would be putting Lunar materials science and industrial development front and center, with human health research as a side project to be monitored while the solar smelters are churning out metric tonnes of metals per hour.
>>
>>16799904
That's how the fluorine-lithium-hydrogen rocket engine worked. Apart from the Isp it sucked ass.
It's also how all hydrolox engines work, too: they purposely go way fuel rich to lighten the average exhaust particle in the stream and get lower temperatures at overall better Isp, with the cost of increased vehicle bulk density.
>>
>>16800369
you don't need to carry the energy with a solar powered ion thruster either?
I mean perhaps there are some specific scenarios where STP would be good, but you would really have to go out of your way to find some
>>
>>16800382
you seem somewhat irate
>>
>>16799930
Actually it's much easier to just coast free-flying than it is to redezvous with and land on a small and rugged rotating body then coast along with it gaining nothing in the process.
>>
>>16800400
it's going to be (somewhat) less mass-efficient
a brick of carbon with a mirror tethered to it is a solar thermal engine already
with ion propulsion you need an actual accelerator and some electrical doodads to feed it
>>
>>16800403
you are going to need an electrical system anyway if you have a probe with instruments
>>
>>16800358
So you agree SEP is better than hydrolox, good
>>
>>16800404
granted
the accelerator is a significant chunk of mass tho
by the way, if I wanted to move a chondrite to where I need it, I'd strap a mirror to it and let a learning algo work out which side needs to be cooked next at which angle
>>
>>16800382
You're dealing with multiple anons
>>
>>16800405
depends if you need the thrust or not
its not absolutely better
>>
>>16799437
Unfortunately I'm unable to beat you until you stop being retarded, so you'll just have to remain ignorant.

You are the only person in this thread who doesn't understand it. Seethe and shit yourself all you like. It's appropriate for your level of intelligence.
>>
>>16799875
If you can fuel rockets with cryogenics you can just as well fuel them with 130°C molten cubane.
Hot is easier than cold even
>>
>>16799437
>solar thermal doesn’t need an engine
retard
>>
>>16800416
Or a "rocket body" or "tanks"!
>>
>>16800413
you seem positively miffed
>>16800416
a mirror tied to and shining on a piece of pretty much anything solid is a solar thermal engine
>>
>>16799642
Por que no los dos
>>
Rockets are mentioned in the american anthem, some things are just historically ordained
>>
>>16799694
A starship has three vacuum raptor engines. That's not much compared to the booster, right? But their total power output is more than 16 GW, so with a solar flux of 1.3 KW/m^2, you need more than 10 million square meters of mirrors to match it. That's assuming your mirrors and engine are somehow 100% efficient and all the heat goes only into the propellant.
>>
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>>16800433
wow. 10 square megameters
>>
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>>16800429
liquid propellants are unamerican
>>
>>16800415
how are you dealing with the cooties issue
>>
>>16800433
oh no a 4 km wide mylar sheet
the horror
>>
Titan... home...
>>
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>>16800437
That's a funny looking shaped charge
>>
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>>16800288
>euros plan a multi-year study to describe what it would be like if they had a real space program
>>
>>16800449
it's a multi-year study to investigate what would be required to design a tech demonstrator
the damn thing uses Vega P120C SRBs
>>
>>16800446
>you vs the guy she tells you to not worry about
>>
>>16800442
How does the mylar sheet pull the spacecraft and stay aimed at the engine?
You should have been drowned at birth
>>
>>16800455
Get pulled by the spacecraft, rather
>>
>>16800455
>How does the mylar sheet pull the spacecraft
it doesn't
>stay aimed at the engine?
strings and pulleys. very advanced Roman high technology, you wouldn't understand
>>
*sigh* I'm going to ask you politely to ZIP IT one last time. Then I will be very, very impolite!
>>
>>16800471
careful, lads, we got a live one over here
>>
>>16800448
mega-engineering projects scratch a deep itch of mine
>>
>>16800446
Lmfao
>>
>>16800446
MOGGED
>>
>>16800435
Is it that bad? It is just a demonstrator and they have another demonstrator for a reusable booster.
>>
I just blocked ESA and affliates on X.
>>
>>16800483
lol why
>>
>>16800288
>>16800435
>>16800446
VGH... the innovation of EVROPA
>>
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>>16800489
They won't achieve any milestones in space
>>
>>16800459
>strings and pulleys
inb4 only pretending to be retarded
>>
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https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/

lol
>>
>>16800435
I don’t trust europe to be able to do it, but something like an ATV modified to do propulsive return and landing isn’t a terrible idea. It’s basically like a dream chaser but better.
>>
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SpaceX is so stupid XD
>>
whaen do these spay sex jackasses launch ift 11
>>
>>16800498
Did Amazon ever give the specs of their sats?
>>
>>16800505
about two weeks
>>
Remember when SpaceX was so optimistic they thought they could afford to spend launches on some stupid Lunar flyby mission with amateurs on board.
>>
>>16800509
I think the going theory is that they actually did have interested parties, chiefly Yusaku Maezawa + Isaacman or Jerveston or some other investor, but then they transitioned to a BFR/ITS/Starship concept. YM pulled out of dearmoon (he probably lost interest after committing to training and going to the ISS) and jared transitioned to polaris which seemingly abandoned a lunar flyby for Dragon EVA, then manned Starship
>>
>>16800511
Maezawa also lost a lot of net worth in between dearMoon being announced and it being canceled. He's still worth a lot, but he might not have "blow a billon dollars on Apollo 8 but with influencers" level money anymore.
>>
>>16799984
I'll bet you have lots of pictures of dead Palestinian babies saved, don't you? Come on, tell the truth for once in your life.
>>
>>16800511
The reason Yusaka pulled out is because he was getting scammed. Starship still wouldn't be able to do dearmoon for at least a decade even today, and he was expected to help pay for it's development the whole time. He initially wanted to go around the moon in an uprated dragon launched on a human rated Falcon Heavy, which would have actually been possible, but Musk conned him into something that would never work.
>>
>>16800522
Based musk, he gave Maezawa the realistic option. They had already committed to starship… no point in spreading the team thin for a one-off gray dragon
>>
>>16800288
esa is literally just china at this point only china actually builds rockets
>>
>>16800524
It wasn't the realistic option, it was not and will not be possible to do dearmoon on Starship. It's called scamming somebody.
>>
>>16800529
I meant realistic in the sense that they already made up their mind on throwing the resources and money at starting starship hardware. Musk realistically told MZ that they weren’t about to fool around on a custom dragon.
From a practical sense, yes, it would’ve been easier to do a slingshot around the Moon on an upgraded dragon vs waiting 7-10 yrs for Starship to develop from scratch to do the same thing. But spacex didn’t want to waste time on gray dragon
>>
>>16800533
>waiting 7-10 yrs
*misspelt 25+ years
>>
>>16800550
Funny
>>
>>16800446
Fuck the ESA and fuck Europe.
>>
>>16800528
And China can land on Mars. ESA not so much.
>>
>>16800511
Original Falcon Heavy dearmoon was announced in feb 2017, probably with discussion dating from 2016, that's too early for isaacman to be involved.

Kind of a shame Fh Dearmoon didn't continue, yeah it would have taken a huge amount of work (probably precluding the polaris mission) but if it was launching about now it would have been very relevant to the current state of the artemis program and the "moon race".
>>
>>16800446
[math]\unicode{x1F90F}[/math]
>>
>>16800572
SpaceX doesn't give a shit about the "race" and the Artemis program isn't even for the race.
>>
>>16800288
>All those qualifiers in one single paragraph.

That's actually rather frightening.
>>
>Today the European Space Agency and Avio signed a contract for 24-months of development activities aiming at the in-flight demonstration of a reusable upper stage.

>The activities, for a total value of €40 million, will assess and prepare the requirements, the design and the technologies for both the ground and flight segments required for an upper stage demonstrator that in the future could return to Earth and be reused on another flight.

So, 40 million for a PowerPoint. Nice.
>>
>>16800589
These absolute niggers just need to accept europe will never be a space power and buy US/chinese
>>
>>16800288
They'll never admit it, but I bet this tweet absolutely shattered some ESA shills.
>>
Reminder that when (if) Rosalind Franklin launches in 2028, it will have been 29 years since the rover was originally proposed.

For a rover which is barely more capable than the MERs.
>>
>>16800593
You really think I can get any more disillusioned?
>>
>>16800591
They want the domestic capability, which is smart, but are totally incapable of executing on anything.
Therefore, the money keeps getting tossed into the hole.
>>
>>16800152
KINO
>>
When the fuck are we gettting space stations that acutally look cool?
>>
>>16800599
wdym anon they already have domestic capability in the form of Ariane 6!
>>
>>16800152
they should just roll down a window to air the place out
>>
>>16800603
Bezos is the only hope for that, so not within any of our lifetimes.
>>
>>16800603
when there is a reason to actually build them. Currently the uses for microgravity are
>slightly better fiber optics
>some pharmaceutical stuff
>uhhh...

Unless someone discovers a super alloy that can only be made in zero g that has broad ranging applications and is worth the steep cost to make in orbit, it simply isn't gonna happen. we wont see large scale in space manufacturing of goods for a long while
>>
>>16800593
Hahah
>>
>>16800606
lol
>>
>>16800609
Wasn't talking about your faggy ass no-spin stations.
>>
>>16800448
put it in front of venus and get a whole world from it
>>
>>16800609
cvd on earth is very hard
cvd in spehs is trivial
if you want computer chips, metamaterials, or just big crystals of whatever, spehs is the place for you
>>
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>>16800609
pharmaceuticals are a trillion dollar industry. if microgravity drugs prove a possible benefit they could sustain multiple research and manufacturing stations on their own
>>
>>16800612
you dont get the spinny stations without the non spinny ones making sense first. No one can possibly justify a rotating drum for crew quarters or space tourism if there isn't a massively profitable in space manufacturing market.

>>16800616
the problem is that you can do pharma work in space without space stations so even if you are correct there really just isn't a good reason to build commercial stations at the moment. Even the space station companies see this. Vast is hurrying along as fast as they can because they know the only road to profitability is to be the defacto ISS replacement and have NASA as their anchor customer.
>>
>>16800609
True. The only reason to manufacture shit in space or extract resources in space is for use by people who live permenantly in space, and the only reason you would want to do any of that is because the cost of sending things to space is so astronomically high. Sure there could come a day when we would extract material from space objects because we have so fully exploited all the raw materials in the Earth's crust that extracting the resources from space objects is cheaper, but that day is definitely not soon.
The blackpill on humans in space is that there is zero reason to do it beyond the religious drive to do so for the sake of doing so. And the do it for the sake of doing it part is nearly imposisble if we are stuck with chemical rockets. It's not even comparable to the settling of the Americas, it is much harder.
>>
>>16800615
>and is worth the steep cost to make in orbit
People have been trying to show that the improvements from microgravity manufacturing are worth the investment and they've been constantly failing since the 1980s

>>16800616
The pharmaceutical is run on the model of producing very cheap products that you can sell to a captive market for an extreme profit. Something that requires a major capital investment like orbital drug synthesis runs counter to their entire established business philosophy.
>>
why did Elon fall for the colonization with chemical rockets meme? is he retarded?
>>
>>16800626
it's an investment problem, like with many new technologies
things that are hard to do here at all are easy to do there at scale
but since the infra to do them here mostly exists already, nobody really feels like building capacity up there (at great cost) and triggering a commodification race in what used to be a very lucrative niche market
eventually the equilibrium will be punctured and midwits will marvel at the "foresight" of some guy with too much money who decides to do it anyway for the lulz and becones richer than Mansa Musa in the process
>>
>>16800627
in space refilling and ISRU fixes a lot of the problems of chemical. it's also the best we have now and we wont get anything better until we unlock warp tech or vacuum thrusters
>>
>>16800627
As opposed to?
>>
>>16799904
Nigga you just described a chemical rocket but worse, since for some reason you're using a separate propellant instead of the gaseous reaction products themselves. All manner of reactants, liquid and solid, have been explored and documented as rocket fuels. Read Ignition by John Clark.
>>
Two more weeks until the next Starship explosion
>>
>>16800609
I've heard that printing of complex organs is hard to do on Earth because the structures collapse under their own weight during the process, so making or replacement organs in LEO could be quite lucrative.
>>
>>16800631
in space refilling is not a magic bullet. If you want to send a river to Mars it will work out cheaper to use a fully expended vulcan rather than do 20 starship flights.
>>
>>16800626
>People have been trying to show that the improvements from microgravity manufacturing are worth the investment and they've been constantly failing since the 1980s
like I said there isn't a single compelling reason to do in space manufacturing.

we would really need a new gold rush in the form of super material(s) that can't be made elsewhere. Materials with properties that cannot be ignored due to high cost. That would break the initial barrier of infrastructure investment and then other less important things like better semiconductors or whatever could become more commonplace as people explore for the next big thing.

If there was a breakthrough room temp superconductor that can only be made in zero g that would be enough of a reason.
>>
>>16800632
https://www.halopedia.org/Fusion_drive
>>
>>16800641
delusional. what's the payload mass soft landed on mars for the vulcan rocket?
>>
>>16800502
Where is this from?
>>
>>16800631
>in space refilling and ISRU fixes a lot of the problems of chemical
>just do a dozen refill flights per actual flight bro, even though you want to do thousands of trips
Hardly ideal.
>>
>>16800648
what's the payload mass soft landed on mars for the starship rocket?
>>
>>16800652
150 tons fully refueled
>>
>burning fuel to launch fuel to store fuel
nice and efficient
>>
>>16800651
It's the right move. Rockets are all fixed cost and capex.
SpaceX has been all in on this for a decade for a good reason.
>>
>>16800655
Fuel is less than 1% of the cost of space launch.
You want to use as much fuel as possible
>>
>>16800657
it's a waste of time, not money
>>
>>16800641
>cheaper on vulcan
once full reuse kicks in the actual cost of starship flights will be like 5-10 million per launch which is cheaper than falcon 9 launches are.

>>16800651
>Hardly ideal.
The ideal is to have cyclers going to mars that you can just rendezvous with and save on propellant
The ideal is to have in space depots with prop made using in space resources so we dont have to launch fuel from earth.

we currently have neither of those things, so launching it from earth is the only option we have.
>>
>>16800661
>The ideal is to have in space depots with prop made using in space resources so we dont have to launch fuel from earth.
any of those resources near Earth? because that's where we'll be moving most payloads off of
>>
>>16800660
It's the only way to make manned mission even somewhat feasible with chemical.
The state of the art for payload to mars with a staged expendable approach is the perseverance Skycrane.
>>
Should've founded NukeX years ago.
>>
>>16800661
Nuclear tug cycler is the next step after fully reusable Starship. But that'll just save you the TMI burn basically
>>
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>>16800666
the moon is near earth anon. Near Earth Objects literally have "near earth" in the definition
>>
>>16800675
For the mars to earth return it would be a huge help cause ISRU prop production on mars is pretty far fetched from power standpoint
>>
>>16800661
>5-10 million per launch which is cheaper than falcon 9 launches are.
I do not believe that Starship will ever be cheaper per launch than Falcon 9. Starship obviously isnt reusble in the same way that your car is resuable tomorrow after using it today.
Reminder that after their full service life, each surviving space shuttle still had over 70% of the original TPS, and practically everything else save for the wheels on thelanding gear was fully reusable. Why were the orbiters so expensive then? Same reason Starship will never be cheaper than Falcon 9.
>>
>>16800646
that doesn't exist
>>
>>16800681
What about this one?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fusion_engine
Invented in 2021.
>>
>>16800680
shuttle had a bajillion bespoke heatshield elements and was made from aluminum.

Starship has standardized tiles which are far cheaper and easier to install and reinstall as needed. They are also trying to go for a TPS that doesn't need any refurbishment after flight which is extraordinarily difficult but if they pull it off then your entire point is moot
>>
>>16800680
low effort five year old talking points
>>
>>16800626
If it's significantly easier to make giant single-crystal billets of aerospace-relevant alloys in microgravity, Lockmart and Friends will jump on that bandwagon so damn fast
>>
>>16800684
>shuttle had a bajillion bespoke heatshield elements
casting the tiles was not expensive, but yeah it consumed time so Starship has a W
>and was made from aluminum
? lol. what is your point?
>far cheaper and easier to install
They are about the same difficulty to install as shuttle tiles. SpaceX want to somehow automate this which would be good, but right now mexicans do it. A big robot in the hangar which scans the shield and does automatic replacements would be good.
>They are also trying to go for a TPS that doesn't need any refurbishment
Which is not going to happen.
>>
>>16800671
The regulatory environment was ludicrous until a few months ago
>>
>>16800693
Skill issue. Musk is dogshit at lobbying.
>>
>>16800695
NTA but
>Musk is dogshit at lobbying.
True and funny, because he’s damn good at doing the politicking of finding investors and selling product on the business side of things. I guess politics and business are two separate beasts and aren’t always compatible
>>
>>16800695
Speaking of nukes did TerraPower do literally anything after getting NRC's signoff on their SMR -- No hahahaha
These are not serious companies
>>
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>>16800631
>vacuum thrusters
no such thing, its all a joke, QI isn't real, the quantum drive thruster onboard OTP-2 you can track right now isn't doing shit https://celestrak.org/NORAD/elements/graph-orbit-data.php?CATNR=63235

its SMA continues to fall, no magic quantum thruster will save it, it's all BS, Exodus Propulsion is also BS, anomalous thrust that will never materialize in space

its hopeless we're stuck with chemical and maybe in a decade nuclear thermal or electric but thats it, that's all we've got, let's hope large scale orbital refueling is easy...
>>
>>16800699
Musk rides on being percieved as an autistic savant with a brilliant mind, that's how hes able to get VC to throw infinite money his way. In business VC throws money at him expecting a profit. Politics is kind of the exact inverse. In politics he throws money at politicians expecting a profit.
>>
>>16799454
>SSTO
lol no
>>
>>16800660
Weeks to launch enough propellant to refill a Starship in orbit with just one launch tower operating btw
>>
>>16800710
is that why they waited four weeks to even turn it on?
>>
>>16800603
day after you die
>>
>>16800680
Starship is already vastly cheaper to launch than Shuttle was.
>>
>>16800735
it really is not.
>>
>>16800699
I mean, hiring good lobbyists shouldn't be too hard. He shouldn't need to lobby personally.
>>
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https://x.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1972729168585769237
>>
>>16800689
Shuttle tiles were, famously, much more difficult to install than Starship tiles (which are placed on by robot taking several seconds per tile rather than over 24 hoursby hand). Even replacing tiles on Starship is much easier, despite being done by hand at the moment, because techs just need to press them in place (which takes seconds).

Current Starship launches cost about 2x as much as a Falcon 9 launch btw, without even being reusable yet.
>>
>>16800737
It really is. Shuttle launch operations cost $400m per, Starship is currently ~$120m or so.
>>
>>16800751
>Starship is currently ~$120m or so.
Source: Elon Musk
>>
>>16800746
The cost of a Starship launch to SpaceX costs about 2x as much as a Falcon 9 launch does to a third party.*
>>
>>16800746
I'd have to look up exact numbers but that's still 60% cheaper than a Saturn V... in 1960s dollars
>>
>>16800753
Source, they've done 10 of them so far, and they haven't burned even $2B on launch costs. They haven't even burned $10B on the entire program yet, and that's despite all the infrastructure they've built/are building.
>>
>>16800710
extracting useful energy from the vacuum is absolutely possible
>>
every girl who ive ever asked out has given me a fake number. this is somehow Boeings fault.
>>
>>16800779
just do what I did and never ask a girl out ever
>>
>>16800779
The girl at work gave me her number unprompted but idk what to text her because I'm a turbowizard.
>>
>>16800771
>extracting useful energy from the vacuum is absolutely possible
prove it faggot. the evidence is stacked against you
>>
>>16800800
Ask her what her feet smell like, zesty or tangy? Good convo starter.
>>
>>16800806
soientists say everything is impossible until engineers prove them wrong. It wasn't long ago they were saying rockets were impossible because they thought they wouldn't work in a vacuum.

Some engineer somewhere will figure it out and then scientists will bitch and moan about it being impossible until they finally have to admit they were wrong
>>
>>16800809
>ask her if her feet smell zesty or tangy
>she doesn't understand
>pull out an illustrated diagram explaining what is zesty and what is tangy
>she laughs and says "they're good feet"
>smell them
>tangy
>>
>>16800821
This is never how it works btw.
Delusional faggot.
>>
>>16800843
Scoientists didn't think that Mars existed until engineers went there.
>>
https://fireflyspace.com/missions/alpha-flta007/
>September 29, 2025 – During testing at Firefly’s facility in Briggs Texas, the first stage of Firefly’s Alpha Flight 7 rocket experienced an event that resulted in a loss of the stage. Proper safety protocols were followed, and all personnel are safe. The company is assessing the impact to its stage test stand, and no other facilities were impacted. Regular testing is part of Firefly’s philosophy – we test each critical component, engine, and vehicle stage to ensure it operates within our flight requirements before we ship to the launch pad. We learn from each test to improve our designs and build a more reliable system. We will share more information on the path forward at a later date.
This Clap is Clap why Clap we Clap test
>>
>>16800874
KempGODS vindicated
>>
>>16800843
>economic reuse is impossible
>engineers made it happen
that's exactly how it works
>>
>>16800679
You still need to launch from Mars and dock with the cycler.
>>
>>16800806
https://deepfuture.tech/casimir/

>Laying on the desk by his atomic force microscope was a computer chip with some alligator clips hanging off of it. Sonny off-handedly said “this is kind of cool” and hooked it up to a voltage meter. It wasn’t much, but you could see that some juice was coming out of the chip. There was no battery in the circuit. No power source of any kind. Sonny had invented a way to get energy using the Casimir effect.

>Me (losing my cool demeanor): “Sonny, this is fucking incredible — you can make a battery that never needs to be charged!“

These guys claim to have done it, showed off the chip on joe rogan, we'll see what comes of it
>>
>>16800885
cyclers*
you really need multiple otherwise you're going to have to wait for it to come back. It's like waiting for the bus. you don't ever have just one bus on a bus line, you have many busses so that people don't have to wait forever.
>>
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>>16800874
>>
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>>16800874
>https://x.com/elevatorcait/status/1972748096208842888

oops
>>
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>>16800890
sonny is also a massive fraud.
I'm placing my bets on the guy who has published papers and results
>>
>>16800884
no scientists ever said this by the way.
>>
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>Our team revealed another Uranian moon, Ariel, as an ocean world.
You know what this means? Orbiter, Lander, Submersible combo on a NEP mission!
>>
>>16800899
ocean world is a meme to get more funding and you know it
>>
>>16800895
idk like I said we'll see, he is apparently gonna sell these chips next year? Won't take much to prove them fraudulent people will take them apart and stuff
>>
>>16800899
not a single body in the solar system has "subsurface oceans" it's all aquifers.
have fun trying to design a submersible that can swim through sand a rock cracks
>>
>>16800903
I'm pretty sure some passive electronics already exist, basically using an antenna to take background radiation to get very low power
So having a low voltage wouldn't prove it's from the casimir effect and more importantly that this is scalable
>>
>>16800905
TRVTHNVKE
>>
Andy Lapsa interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqG5zoKLcfw
>>
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>>16800911
ah alright well either they prove the scalability as they claim, or it can be considered deboonked
>>
>>16800915
What does stoke do that makes this worth watching?
>>
>>16800918
nothing
>>
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>>16800911
sonny's design literally uses little rods so I bet that is what is going on. I doubt he even checked for alternative explanations.

Garret on the other hand, actually has data showing the effect is not only persistent even when isolated from outside radiation but it also scales when they are put in series and parallel
>>
>>16800920
Thanks
>>
>>16800918
Innovative novel (ripped off from Blue Origin) upper stage design.
This one probably isn't worth, the estrogen tour was good though.
>>
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT FREE ENERGY BULLSHIT
IT'S BEEN WEEKS
>>>/x/
>>
>>16800920
everything
>>
>>16800926
Given what happened to the metal tiles on starship I have doubts their active cooling heatshield is going to work as well as they would like. Not only that, but the only real market for medium lift full reuse is crew/cargo resupply and maybe in space manufacturing like varda does. The vehicle they are making is way too small for the former which would arguably be the most lucrative
>>
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>>16800918
Good engine development team
>>
>>16800899
At this point are there any large moons in the outer solar system that are not ocean worlds?
>>
So what is the next step in launch vehicle progression after Starship?
>>
>>16800937
either bigger starship or space dorito. No, there is no in between.
>>
Earth has a subsurface ocean
>>
>>16800937
LEO construction of massive vehicles that can't be feasibly launched in one go from Earth.
>>
>>16800951
What if one blows up during testing?
>>
>>16800928
I second this. QI is allowed but this is because QIniggers know their place and are cordial about not shitting up the thread with discussions of smoke and mirrors and casimir plates
>>
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Why do the Uranian moons suck so much ass? There's nothing interesting about any of them and they are all below 2,000km. Jupiter has the Galileans, Saturn has Titan, even Neptune has Triton which has very peculiar characteristics. But these just fucking suck.
>>
>>16800955
Then you start over.
>>
>>16800957
How does a gas planet even get knocked on its side, its gas
>>
>>16800956
>QIniggers
>not QIggers
One job
>>
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>>16800937
Actual Starships with alcubierre propulsion built in an orbital shipyard
>>
what's the problem with air-breathing engines? I'm retarded btw
>>
>>16800980
In terms of rockets and getting to orbit? There’s no air in space. And there is no easy way to make an engine + associated systems that can transition from “air breathing jet engine” to “okay now I’ll just tap in to my oxygen tank and perform like a rocket engine”
>>
>>16800971
hate to break it to you but you dont get warp tech without the ability to get relative negative energy densities in the vacuum which just brings us back to Casimir plates again as they are the only way we know of to get lower vacuum energy density.

>>16800980
they don't work in high atmosphere or in vacuum.. because there is no air for them to breath.. duh
>>
>>16800986
>>16800987
>no air in space
yeah, but you have plenty of air at the start
>>
>>16800980
Jet engines that work at hypersonic velocity like a scramjet don't actually have that much higher isp than rocket engines.
So it's really not worth it
>>
>>16800995
air launch doesnt scale
>>
>>16800961
because the gas part is only a small faction of its diameter
>>
>>16800995
I’ll put it another way: you could try to do it. Painstakingly make a heavy engine that inches its way up through the atmosphere. Hell you could even aspire to air-launch a rocket from a plane!
But consider the fact that the highest air breathing engines, such as the scramjet on the X-43A, tap out at something like 77,000 feet. Meanwhile launching a rocket with a conventional liquid-oxygen-fueled engine takes about 90 to 120 seconds to reach this altitude and by this point it’s already on its way to orbit traveling at Mach 7 and accelerating faster still. Fuck hybrid engine bullshit, and fuck air launching. It’s heavy and useless. Just burn through a little more fuel and LOX and launch from the surface
>>
>>16800995
most of the work to get to orbit is accelerating 'sideways' while in space.
>>
>>16801001
>>16801008
>>16801009
this shit is lame. so much fucking oxidizer on Super Heavy
>>
>>16801019
First stages are a solved problem.
Super Heavy works great and fuel is cheap.
This is not the problem to solve as it's not the $/kg to orbit bottleneck
>>
>>16801019
Earth is too big to SSTO off of anyways. It’s possible, but the law of equivalent exchange here is that you could really only do like 1 ton to LEO in any meaningful capacity… Just do a booster like F9 or Super Heavy. It’s not that big of a deal
>>
>>16800980
because to reach orbit, you need to go high and go fast. and having dense air in your way is detrimental to going fast, so you want to go high before going fast, but at those altitude the air is so thin your normal air breathing engines don't work, so you need another set of exotic engines, and in the end you still need to bring oxidizer for a third set of rocket engines to circularize in vacuum. sabre wants to be all three and failed due to the sheer complexity and engineering challenges. much cleaner just use rocket engines all the way up.
>>
>>16801042
skylon was such a retarded idea it made me mad.
>>
>>16801043
And now we have Skylon Musk attempting a new spin on the spaceplane grift
>>
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>>16799592
>
>>
>>16801067
kek
>>
>>16800980
>need engine for sea level 0 velocity
>also not going to be >1 twr for your vehicle

>now need another engine for mach 2+
>now need another engine for mach 4+
>Now still need rocket engines for anything past that
>>
>>16801067
That would require SpaceX to be making a spaceplane.
>>
The amount of wordplay possible with the name “Elon” is astounding actually
>>
>>16801077
>>need engine for sea level 0 velocity
>>now need another engine for mach 2+
>>now need another engine for mach 4+
that's actually not really true any more.

>Now still need rocket engines for anything past that
this still is true tho
>>
>it’s up
>>
>>16801086
TWO WEEKS
W
O

W
E
E
K
S
>>
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TWO WEEKS
https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1972796666878247379
>>
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>second reflown booster
>24/33 engines are being reused
>another landing burn configuration test using 5 engines. this seems to be the new standard going forward
>no catch attempt (lame)
>payload deploy
>testing for future RTLS maneuvers

that's it
>>
>>16801101
Also interesting they went from 3 engines to 5. maybe they found out something they didn't like on flight 10 when they tested engine redundancy
>>
>>16800936
turns out the universe is drenched
>>
>>16801106
They (aliens) call us the 'hydroxide system'
>>
>>16801107
no they fucking don't. Too many fake schizos around here giving us real schizos a bad name.
>>
>>16801103
I guess if you can run the engines at 60%, it's better to use five at 60% than three at 80%.
>>
>>16801125
I misread like a moron it seems like they are still using 3 engines for the landing
>>
>>16801120
Are you too autistic for jokes, anon?
>>
>>16801146
yes otherwise I wouldn't be watching videos about aliens.
>>
>>16801103
>During the section of the burn responsible for fine-tuning the booster's path
In addition to redundancy, this might also give them smoother control authority
>>
Why on the Lunar Module and Shuttle, is the “Commander” the one who actually flies while the “Pilot” sits on the starboard side and just relays information? Why call them the pilot at that point, why not “Co-Pilot”?
>>
>>16801153
So they feel big and important, and I'm not making that up
>>
why not call then passenger 1, 2 and 3?
>>
>>16801156
passengers feel better with the title "mission specialist"
>>
>>16801156
If I'm paying 7 figures for a joyride to space I'm gonna get whatever bullshit tile I want
>>
>>16801175
"Payload specialist" is just as self-fellating lol. I like mission specialist the best
>>
>>16801156
because it gets confusing
>>
Commander, pilot, co-pilot/flight engineer, doctor, geologist; everyone else gets a participation ballast trophy
>>
>>16801194
Captain > Commander
>>
>>16799592
Either baiting or borderline literal shit taste.
>>
>>16799878
I honestly would not mind being the only intelligent species in the galaxy or even the entire universe.
>>
>>16801214
too bad.
>>
>>16801216
"Aliens" are just time travelers fulfilling a closed loop, anon
>>
>>16801098
And a slick recap video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcd_SQZDlnk
>>
>>16801225
lol they included the starlink simulator that bonked the door
>>
>>16801214
We are sentient but we aren't intelligent, it seems
>>
>>16801220
There are many reports of entities who look like praying mantises and they have a number of morphological features which are blatantly non-human, including an arrangement of digits on their forelimbs which is not found in any animal group earth. Their bodies also seem to be distinctly worse than the human body in terms of mobility and flexibility.

if we assume the schizos are correct then it quite literally cannot be time traveling humans, and, if I'm being honest, Time travel is an order of magnitude less likely than just another species that evolved on another planet.
>>
>>16801229
gotta have the fun bits too
>>
https://images.nasa.gov/details/PIA26661
Very long but interesting caption, here is an excerpt:
>In this infrared photograph, the Optical Communications Telescope Laboratory (OCTL) at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Table Mountain Facility near Wrightwood, California, beams its eight-laser beacon (at a total power of 1.4 kilowatts) to the Deep Space Optical Communications (DSOC) flight laser transceiver aboard NASA's Psyche spacecraft. The photo was taken on June 2, 2025, when Psyche was about 143 million miles (230 million kilometers) from Earth.
>The faint purple crescent just left of center and near the laser beam is a lens flare caused by a bright light (out of frame) reflecting inside the camera lens.
>As the experiment's ground laser transmitter, OCTL transmits at an infrared wavelength of 1,064 nanometers from its 3.3-foot-aperture (1-meter) telescope. The telescope can also receive faint infrared photons (at a wavelength of 1,550 nanometers) from the 4-watt flight laser transceiver on Psyche. Neither infrared wavelength is easily absorbed or scattered by Earth's atmosphere, making both ideal for deep space optical communications.
>>
>>16800890
What is Joe Rogan's impact factor?
>>
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>>16801229
>>
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>>16799931
Europa is even worse. When will scientists pay for the lies they've perpetrated on us for funding?
>>
>>16800926
Even blue origin dumped that retardo idea. literally zero point in an aerospike upper stage. and their aerospike is total dogshit retarded on top of it. it's space elevator tier
>>
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>>16800933
anyone can build a rats nest
>>
>>16801101
nothing ground breaking
>>
>>16801276
most rocket companies don't have the capitol to build 500 test engines to get to that level of refinement.
>>
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>>16801281
Not my problem
>>
>>16801282
based, keep the presses rolling Mr. Musk
>>
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>>16801101
Errrm how are they resuse the engines when they sunk in the ocean?
>>
>>16799984
>you will thank me for not posting a picture of a dead or dying Russian
you talk like an Israeli, why is that?
>>
>>16801288
I prefer engines that dont get sunk
>>
>>16801274
The ugliness of the celestial bodies is a cosmic mistake that we need to correct.
>>
>>16801293
>most of the universe that isn't gas or stars is just floating gray balls
Fucking gay. Why are we trying to go there again?
>>
>>16801297
None of the other shitheads on this rock are gonna bother you there.
>>
>>16801293
europe would look better if it were completely covered in hydrolox refineries.
europa too
>>
>>16801297
>96% of the universe is we dont know'
>4% of the universe is star plasma
>0.00001% of the universe is gray balls
hur durr where are dem aliums
>>
>>16801297
to change their color
>>
>>16801302
0.0000001% of the universe is blue balls.
>>
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>dude if there was aliums wouldnt we saw them by now? durp durr
>>
0.0000000000000000001% of the universe is aliens
>>
>>16799186
Do penises work in zero gravity?
>>
>>16801317
Even that number suggests, conservatively, 10 alien species in the observable universe.
>>
>>16801317
The rest? Mostly cheese.
>>
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>>16801282
my hairline looks like this
>>
>>16801341
Grow some bangs, rock a sick shag brah
>>
>>16801341
>it's over
more like get over it
>>
>>16801302
According to bigelow they are living among humanity on earth
>>
>>16801282
what happened to his hair plugs?
>>
>>16801348
robert bigelow is incredibly high iq. he built a hotel in space
>>
>>
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>>16801387
Got this in higher res? Want to use it for .y phone wallpaper
>>
>>16801395
Sadly no, saved it from some long lost 4chan thread over a decade ago. Makes me wonder how much pre-internet space art may end up being forever lost.
>>
>>16801395
>>16801415
The artist is Philippe Bouchet. I couldn't immediately find a higher res, but didn't look too hard because I need to sleep. Good luck.
>>
>>16801153
Because you're talking millennia of naval tradition, not aeronautical. A lot of the astronauts were Navy vets.
The commander actually controls the ship, and the pilot guides it near dangerous terrain. It's way closer to the archaic meaning of the term
>>
>>16801375
>USSS Kessler Syndrome
>>
>>16801480
Commissioned ships just have the USS designation, regardless of the kind of ship that they are. So if the Space Force ever commissions ships, they'll just be USS Donald J. Trump or whatever, no need for an extra S
This is also how you can tell that the Solar Warden shit is fake
>USSS Hillenkotter
It would never be named that.
>>
TWO WEEKS
https://www.spacex.com/launches/starship-flight-11
>>
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>>16801522
^
>>
>>16801522
https://youtu.be/rcd_SQZDlnk
>>
>>16801522
>>16801540
lol, nvm, I didn't see previous posts
>>
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>>16800881
I kneel. How does this guy beat us?
>>
>>16801555
post the one with sound
>>
there's nothing happening lately
>>
>>16801555
rocket 4 will fix it, trust the plan



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