Where do you draw the line on consciousness and the capacity to feel pain? can fish? shellfish?
>>16799085animals can't feel pain, they just panic because they think they're going to be eaten when you hit them
>>16799085You're looking at it wrong you're looking to define the word when the word already has a definition.So look it up instead.
>>16799085We should stay on the side of caution here. Basic decency.
>>16799087that goes for the human animal too
>>16799085>Consciousnesspseudoscience
>>16799085>Where do you draw the line on consciousness and the capacity to feel pain? can fish? shellfish?If you frame an issue in a way that forces you to draw arbitrary lines, you are probably framing it incorrectly. Anything that lives and can react to harm, is capable of experiencing being harmed. That's going to be an inherently negative experience, whether or not it's translatable into what you think of as "pain". The only real question is: do you care? And the answer is 'no'. You ignore even the pain and suffering of the creatures that express that unambiguously.
>>16799182Based, we are just biorobot nothing else.
>tfw i crippled someone permanently by calling him a biobot and now he goes around saying "biobot" in every threadSorry, anon. lol
>>16799194dwarf fortress grassland map
>>16799085amoeba
>>16799194>>16799195samefag
>>16799096No i'm not, you've just side stepped the initial question. Defining consciousness doesn't eliminate the problem of figuring out where the boundary is drawn. Only a few hundred years ago it was believed that animals were nothing more than biological automaton.>>16799182Please explain what you mean by this
>>16799194Do you not think you are conscious?
>>16799087do you think humans are the only life forms on earth capable of experiencing pain? if we're using our physiology as an explanation as to why we have the capacity to feel pain wouldn't that suggest that similarly related animals like bonobos and chimpanzees also share the ability to feel pain the same way we do? i'm just asking where you draw the line.
>>16799085That question is meaningless and it sounds like you're more interested in justifying your eating habits, whatever they are, than actual science
>>16799287Ones definition of a faggot might be someone that has fag thoughts another's might be someone that has gay sex. In the end nothing's been proven and therefore it doesn't even matter.
>>16799292There's a reason that, for example, we humans can talk and love, enjoy good food and fuck for fun, unlike bonobos and all the other animals you mention. It's the same reason that we feel pain when animals don't - they're animals, we're the humans. Simply put. I'd explain it in more depth but I doubt you'd understand
>>16799087Circular definition.
>>16799085Plenty of normies getting whacked in the balls on America's Got Talent. You have the logical foundation of watermelon cat.
>>16799085Yes. Read about nociceptors.More generally, anything that reacts to harmful stimuli so to protect itself experiences pain in one form or another. This includes plants.l>>16799289NTA but the problem with answering this is the lack of an acceptable definition for consciousness. The answer is either yes or no depending on the definition. I like to think of consciousness as the ability to predict, which of course raises more questions, such as what is a prediction but a relatively complicated reaction? When, then, does reaction become prediction? Is the distinction meaningful? The criteria has traditionally been subjectively chosen to include organisms that act like humans, but probably everything with a brain is conscious, and potentially everything composed of cells. One implication is that consciousness is a spectrum, with humans being farther along it than, say, a bacterium that behaves to satisfy more immediate and simple goals than long-term and complex ones. Would a bacterium that does all that a traditionally conscious organism can do be conscious? Well, why not? And if a human can do nothing but what a bacterium can do, is it conscious? Why not, but simply to a lesser degree?
>>16799493At best, prediction only heightens pain. If you look the other way while someone puts a needle in your arm to take a blood sample, you'll always feel less pain than if you use visual cues to predict exactly when the metal will pierce your skin.
>>16799085>draw the lineGenerally, the more sophisticated the consciousness, the greater capacity for pain it feels.
>>16799491>Circular definition.Circumsized dick
>>16799527Sorry for your loss
>>16799087So they have a well enough developed theory of mind to understand death even though they don't feel pain?
>>16800008They don't. For an animal death is nothing more than black nothingness, like falling unconscious and fully dissociating at the same time
>>16800240Why would they panic if its just a long deep nap them?
>>16800252>Why would they panicBecause the domesticated animals he abuses are retarded, just like domesticated "humans". Real animals don't "panic". They fight, or they flee, or they struggle, or they just give up.
>>16800263Why would they do that if they don't have any theory of what is about to happen if they don't fight or flee or struggle?
>>16800298Instinct, obviously. This is true regardless of what you think about pain. For example, I could beat you into a pulp and make sure you hurt, but you wouldn't do anything useful about it. You'll just panic and get beaten harder. You don't have any useful instincts for this situation and your theories about what would happen when I'm done would help you none.
>>16800299So it has nothing to do with what was said before they just have an instinct to randomly panic around people even though they don't always panic around people?
>>16800318You have a severe mental illness.
>>16800318Animals can't feel pain, animals can't feel anything besides panic. Deal with it
>>16800547You're an animal. Deal with it.
>>16800548I truly am. I hope that one day you'll realise that that's true for every human on Earth, even for yourself. And maybe then you'll also realise that many of your strong emotions ......are nothing more than panic about dying.
>>16800551Tortured reasoning.
>>16800553Mhh, the bot seems to be broken. It only ever answers with 2-word answers when btfo'd
>>16800556Saying "if u think rly hard liek i did, then mayb u'll see im rite" is not an argument.
>>16800560I was baiting you the whole time, knowable since the claim that bonobos dont like fucking
>>16800562You were baiting me the whole time? I only came into this thread a few minutes ago.
>>16800564But, for the duration of those few minutes, I was baiting you.
>>16800566Who are we even?
>>16800579We are Anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Except our bait.
>>16800333Quit panicking and use your words productively.
>>16799087Of course they do and you know it, stop lying to yourself about how sick you are.
>>16801595You're the one lying to yourself. Animals dont feel pain period. At most, they feel a very localized, sharp discomfort caused by stuff that's either too hot/cold for their biology, damaging their tissue and/or chemically reacting with their body. How is that pain?
>>16801619Wait, so now its not just mindless instinct, its an actual reasonable reaction to stuff that is definitely not compatible with their biology?
>>16799193i took some time to think about what you wrote before replying and ultimately your judgment is entirely fairDo you think that makes me and people like me bad? >>16799309i’m not vegan or vegetarian but i do conceed that contemporary factory farming practices are maximising suffering. This anti vegetarian/vegan rhetoric i see all the time is frankly quite silly.
>>16801644it's even less than a mindless instinct - it's a complex chemical reaction resulting in the illusion of pain
>>16799085It's called reflex
