Why is AC power kept so mysterious?I'm an electrical engineer. Finished college, have the degree, worked for 12 years in manufacturing. No one inside a factory is using the shit they teach about AC power, in a university, to use it in a factory. If I have an application problem, my old textbooks are useless. They get way way up their own ass attempting to answer very simple questions about AC power with calculus and differential equations and phase angles and maxwell's equations and a dozen other things that aren't going to help you trouble shoot AC power in a factory. Your basic EI books have the opposite problem. They are too general. Something like you're little ugly's book barely, just barely has anything on AC power and AC motors. You'd never be able to use it to size a replacement motor. What do EI's often do? Use their amp meter to see if a circuit is locked out, check to see if the windings have opened, drop in a new motor, bingo bango, done. I've worked with entire shifts that don't have a single guy who calculate power. Entire facilities that don't have a single meter that calculate power factor or know how to see if an amp is pulling too many amps and going bad. Its maddening. Why is applied AC power like some secret art? I wouldn't be surprised if the really good trade schools just write their own textbooks or if non English countries do.
In East Asia you'ld be designing an inverter or a CRPA, in your well developed shithole you're a glorified technician fixing the outdated factory.
That's only what shitty electrical engineers do. Real electrical engineers don't work in factories.
>>16799859>Why is applied AC power like some secret art?>They get way way up their own ass...the part where "they get up their own ass" is the part you a whining about being a secret
>>16799898Eh, I made 20k above the national average starting salary for a EE by going into manufacturing out of college.i can always go into design later. Also, guys who work in the real world and thengo into design later are better respected. Engineers that never get any real world experience are universally hated by everyone.
>>16799989Not really.You don't need to do calculus, DE or emag to build things with AC power. There used to be standard practices for trouble shooting and design. People used to be able to design an application with tables. No one actually does calculus or emag when deciding which Toshiba ac motor to use to drive a fan in a massive oven. Frankly its amazing american industry does anything. No one really knows the equipment. No one knows the chemistry of the process. You have process control guys just play with the PLCs and ladder logic who have no idea how to really tune anything.The best I can tell, the Germans are the only ones who attempt to do it all correctly.
>>16799990>>16799995you can sweep maxwell's equations under the rug, but everything with electromagnetism quite literally flows from themit's great that you can order things from a catalog and plug them into a factory line, good jorb. however the people that designed that part extensively used all those tricks you are pooping onyou just sound like a dumb tech
>>16799859Get a good book on Electrical Machines. The things you struggle with are trivial for a power engineer. The actual physics of why a motor spins and using Maxwell's equations in it are what is actually confusing but non of that is needed in a factory.
>>16799859>manufacturingYou're like a nurse saying "doctors don't really understand patients!"
>>16799859>check to see if the windings have opened, drop in a new motor, bingo bango, doneAnon, the production line must move product. If a machine breaks down you replace the parts and restart the line. You can be a smartguy and evaluate the motor's damage in a side office later. If a machine blows too many motors in a short period replace the power supply electronics. And later see if they were giving bad power.Either a part is in specification or not. If out of spec, remove and replace it. Do you even have the in-house ability to repair the parts?
Anon is a screwdriver monkey thinking he is a real engineer, and complaining about how schools teach engineering instead of rule-of-thumb troubleshooting
>OP asks for material on applied engineering>is insulted and belittled for not having a real engineering job>in a bad job market, in a country that never had enough design jobs to go around, no lessNever change sci.
>>16800001really does sound like he's conflating two quite different levels of work, which is why it sounds retarded.
>>16799859>Why is applied AC power like some secret art?MoneyThats the short answer.Longer answer.1. Average college teacher and their TAs has never designed anything or had a real job. Used to be common to learn electronics in the military and then get an engineering degree and become a professor but that doesnt happen now. And the ones that have had real jobs, came from jobs focused on low voltage DC applications and coding. The college probably also puts pressure on teachers to hit certain subjects and with engineering knowldge growing every day, unfortunately practical knowledge gets cut first.So you end up in a situation where no one knows how to design anything with AC power and the school puts pressure on faculty to cut depth and focus on breath.2. It is not advantageous to the people selling the equipment for you to really understand it. They do not want a world where you can replace their parts wirh cheaper parts from a different company. They very much like for manufacturing to repair their facilities as if they were cars where a tech pulls a bad part and buys another of the same part number. You can say the same for design. The engineering firm wants a company to pay them for every change and update. They dont make any money if an engineer at the company can design something, order the parts, and install it. They want to sell on-site visit, a process audit, drawings, design and also skim some money off whatever company does the install. Think of it this way. Ham radio is kind of a hard hobby to make a lot of money off of or at least was. Why? Because most people into ham radio understood radio and electronics well enough to design and build a lot of their equipment. Engineering firms dont want to be in a situation like this.This is one reason countries that are more collective are beating the US and other countries thar focus on making money and the invdiual. They are less likely to hoard and hide information.
>>16800357AC power is literally simple af. No secret to it if you read a few books
>>16800406>AC power is literally simple af.You'd think this but it doesnt work this way in practice.Lot of engineering companies selling designs with motors double or triple the hp requirments because they don't know how to size a motor for a job. Lot of electricians and E&I techs who just go to replacing motors and other parts when something goes down and can't even be assed to check continuity across the phases or to ground.Everyone thinks AC is easy until it is time to fix something or design something and then suddenly they just start over sizing shit or replacing parts
>"electrical engineer">treats AC like it's some woodoo magic huhaaWant to know how I know you aren't white?
>>16800414>Lot of engineering companies selling designs with motors double or triple the hp requirments because they don't know how to size a motor for a job.Why don't you start a company that outcompetes them by offering perfectly sized motors?
>>16800545>Why don't you start a company that outcompetes them by offering perfectly sized motors?Most manufacturing has a lock on Capitol expenditure right now. Data centers and power for said data centers are the only people booming right now.Also tarrifs on non US made motors right now
Buncha guys that never worked with AC other than charging their mother's buttplug in this thread
>>16799859>I'm an electrical engineerYou didn't pay attention in any emag/emech classes and have forgotten most if not all of the calc involved in your degree.-t. EE 5 years in research
>>16800668>EE 5 years in researchSo a dumbass that knows nothing about the real world?
>>16801181lmao the opposite. My corner of research involves working on instruments and on site work as well as lots of design work. I also used to work in manufacturing before this.Unlike OP I don't accuse heat exchanger design of being kept mysterious because I personally defer to mechanical engineers when choosing a cooling system for X load in Y and Z conditions because there's no simple table I can refer to
>>16801189>Unlike OP I don't accuse heat exchanger design of being kept mysterious because I personally defer to mechanical engineers when choosing a cooling system for X load in Y and Z conditions because there's no simple table I can refer toSo you had the table op wanted and didnt share it so you could insult someone?Typical 4chan
>>16800414>You'd think this but it doesnt work this way in practice.I disagree. Thanks to FEMM designing motors that are properly sized is easier than ever and even shitty engineers can do it well enough. Oversizing is something that was done when we relied of rules of thumb and shitty empiric formulas.As for the E&I techs that is probably true but it's just because unless you actually designed the damn thing it is easier to do that way and it's the company paying not you. I personally would try and fix things if they are my own but at my job who cares.
>>16801499>to do that way and it's the company paying notSorry for the aneurysm I had writing this.
>>16801499>Thanks to FEMM designing motors that are properly sized is easier than ever and even shitty engineers can do it well enough. Oversizing is something that was done when we relied of rules of thumb and shitty empiric formulas.Bold of you to think everyone is using design software to size things. Its just as likely they copied something similar from their past and cross referenced the specs with a newer motor and just ran with that.This idea that American industry is packed full of engineers using cutting edge tools to design everything and factories are packed with cutting edge instrumentation and we're just days away from handing it all to AI is a fiction.If you ever had a job where you got to go into a lot of factories, you'd know why american industry is falling behind. Its the companies themselves.
>>16799859What the fuck are you even talking about man.
>>16799859Els are sons of God!
In my experience, it's because most people don't understand electricity.I mean, they might know how to connect the wires, what happens if they do a certain thing or how to troubleshoot a problem, but it's all learned behaviour and barely anyone actually understands it. They might even be able to do the math, but they just know the process and can apply it, without understanding why and how.
>>16801776Have to admit I have no knowledge on how the yanks do it but If it's as bad as you say that is very dissapointing considering you can pirate FEM software and run it on your laptop nowadays.
>>16802644>Have to admit I have no knowledge on how the yanks do it but If it's as bad as you say that is very dissapointing considering you can pirate FEM software and run it on your laptop nowadays.Lot of old men still in engineering in the US. If they are over 70 with a small firm and their engineering fee comes in under 50% to 30% of what a bigger or newer company wants, they're probably jusr copying some older design and upsizing the motor for good measure.No one is going to catch them because the factory paying for everything might never do a power quality or motor health check on the motors and realize just how under utilized the big beefy motor is. And even if someone called them on it they'd probably argue that using a bigger motor than necessary extends the life of the motor. Which if true is just moving cost around. Maybe it would exstend the life of the motor, but you're paying more on power because the motor isnt running at the speed and load that is most efficient. America has gotten away with this type of thinking for most of the life of AC power because of how cheap fuel and electricity has been in the US. There are states in the US where power is like 5 cents per kwh. The UK on the other hand pays about 35 cents (usd). India has cheap power at about 8 cents per kwh but their average weekly wage is like $80 if Google is to be believed. If you ever discover that americans are being lazy and/or stupid in how they do business, the reason usually comes down to economics. Its simply not worth their time to do better.
>>16799859The guy on the shop floor knows more about the field than the engineer in their ivory tower office.>t. engineer
>>16802847To add to this, I've worked in american manufacturing and power for 15 years and I've never heard of anyone in management think about reducing the size of motors to save on purchased power. This is not how they think. The equipment and factory is a fixed thing in their mind.I've seen two lines of thinking. 1 thinks mainly about uptime. All they do is think about fixing broken parts. Either the parts are broke now or will break. They essentially approach manufacturing like an old car mechanic. Keeping the machine running is all they think about. They dont really even care about quality. They only look at that when claims come back. They are reactive, not proactive to quality problems. Maintenance and uptime is the only thing theh are proactive about. The other mind set is production per expenditure. Producing the most units per dollars spent. Management in this category is a little more proactive about quality. But they will also run a lot of equipment to failure to get their cost per month lower. Always pushing repairs out to the next month, the next quarter. Always trying to push the long shut out.Driving a factory like a car, where you drive it exactly at the speed that is most fuel efficient is completely alien to them. Never enters their mind.
>>16802853>The guy on the shop floor knows more about the field than the engineer in their ivory tower officeDepends on age more than anything. Some new tech can barely wipe his own ass. New engineer is only 10% better.You can do great things with an engineer or tech with 20+ years of experience IF they have the right attitude
>>16800001That's not true. You also need the theory of matter (quantum mechanics) to understand how electromagnetic interactions occur.
>>16799995>nobody knows how to do anything I dont>somehow the world still manages to run every dayMaybe you're just not as smart as you think you are
>>16802869>>nobody knows how to do anything I dontNot sure why that is your take away.Clearly people used to know. All this shit came from somewhere And clearly you dont need differential equations and Maxwell's as they dont teach the people who maintain this shit such things
>>16799859Are you saying you've never used a circuit diagram in your job?
>>16802874You seem to genuinely believe the people who maintain and run every chemical refinery in the world doesn't know what they're doing because you don't know
You all sound like this faggot know it all EE lecturer I had in uni.Did his BE, MEng, PhD, all at the same uni, stayed on as a lecturer, never worked as an engineer for a single day of his life. His biggest satisfaction in life that he gloated about every single class is how everyone in the class is stupid and how all the courses that he runs have an 80% failure rate.Complete loser faggot that shouldn't have the right to call himself an engineer.
>>16799859it is better for long distances. Most applications for electricity dont require long distance
>>16802859it's true for classical em, which is the domain OP is whining aboutyes, qm is required for things like semiconductor physics
